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From the Snooze site. Quite perceptive for a skate!

 

[h=4]SarahPFC[/h]9:35 PM on 15/12/2012

 

Let's be clear about this. There is no reason of "commercial confidentiality" to not release the numbers. I'm afraid that the Trust is probably way, way off reaching its £1.8m target. I know the numbers are complicated by syndicates etc, but in very broad terms, the Trust need 1,800 to hand over £1,000 each.

 

Ask yourself what sort of background noise or mood music we'd be witnessing if they were anywhere close to this total..

 

a. We'd be seeing a flood of people on twitter or on sites like this saying "I've paid my grand". We have seen a tiny trickle. I'd say, at a cursory glance, no more than 10 or 20 such people on this site - the main local news site for the city.

b. We'd be seeing a very large number of local news stories of businesses or local "celebrities" saying they'd paid up their pledge. Again, there has been a tiny trickle of this sort of stuff. But if 1,800 people really are ponying up, about 1,750 of them seem to guard their privacy very, very jealously indeed.

c. Trust meetings would be absolutely packed to the rafters. If you're so passionate about the club that you're willing to stump up a grand, you're disproportionately likely to be willing to attend a meeting for an hour or so. Attendance at these meetings has typically been measured in the dozens. Again, maybe 95% of hardcore Pompey fans are willing and able to write a cheque for a grand but not willing and able to attend any meetings. But it doesn't ring true.

d. Ancillary fundraising activity would be on an absolutely colosall scale. If Portsmouth is typical of the nation, the city as a whole would have raised about £250K for Comic Relief this year. The Trust are trying to raise about eight times that. Does the activity and publicity feel about eight times as big to you? It doesn't to me. Selling T-shirts to raise a few hundred quid is cute, but pretty useless.

e. The loyal, enthusiastic Pompey fans you know would be showing a VERY high propensity to pay up their £1,000. I'd say I know about 50 Pompey fans quite well. And these 50 are pretty "hardcore" - season ticket holders, regular away attendees, have the disposal income to go to lots of games etc. If you aren't getting nearly all of these sort of people to handover £1,000, it's hard to see where you are getting the support from. Of the 50 people I know, two have handed over £1K (both rather sceptically) and four or five have put down the £100, but only one expects to be able to complete on the other £900. So, in broad terms, of the 50 fans I know, the Trust will raise about £2,500 or £50 per head. This makes £1.8m a very steep hill indeed. (If my mates are representative, you'd need to find a total of 36,000 such Pompey fans to raise the targeted amount. There aren't that many)

f. You'd need to believe that for every one Pompey fan willing to pay, say, a total of £100 to attend the Tranmere away game, there are six Pompey fans willing to hand over a grand to the Trust. This doesn't sound very likely to me at all.

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Duncan Fearnley from the trust confirmed they'd converted 10% over target today, although their target was 10 to be fair. Still that's another £11k, Every Little Helps.

 

I wonder if Porky Penny has coughed up her grand. She has mouthed off so often about the Trust that she is duty bound to support the PDT but you would like to think that a member of Her Majesty's Government would have the insightful skills not to be taken in by fantasiists and b u l l s h i t.

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The truth, as has been evident during repeated administrations, is that no-one who has any real money to invest wants anything to do with them.

And the fact that so very few of their own people - who are, lets not forget, the most passionate and bestest fans in all the land - will touch this 'opportunity' with a barge pole confirms what we've been saying here for years - they've proved themselves to be the football equivalent of Pearl Harbour, the Towering Inferno, the Poseidon Adventure and every Hollywood disaster movie that was ever made all rolled into one.

Hard to see them coming back from this :)

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From the Snooze site. Quite perceptive for a skate!

 

SarahPFC

 

9:35 PM on 15/12/2012

 

Let's be clear about this. There is no reason of "commercial confidentiality" to not release the numbers. I'm afraid that the Trust is probably way, way off reaching its £1.8m target. I know the numbers are complicated by syndicates etc, but in very broad terms, the Trust need 1,800 to hand over £1,000 each.

 

Ask yourself what sort of background noise or mood music we'd be witnessing if they were anywhere close to this total..

 

a. We'd be seeing a flood of people on twitter or on sites like this saying "I've paid my grand". We have seen a tiny trickle. I'd say, at a cursory glance, no more than 10 or 20 such people on this site - the main local news site for the city.

b. We'd be seeing a very large number of local news stories of businesses or local "celebrities" saying they'd paid up their pledge. Again, there has been a tiny trickle of this sort of stuff. But if 1,800 people really are ponying up, about 1,750 of them seem to guard their privacy very, very jealously indeed.

c. Trust meetings would be absolutely packed to the rafters. If you're so passionate about the club that you're willing to stump up a grand, you're disproportionately likely to be willing to attend a meeting for an hour or so. Attendance at these meetings has typically been measured in the dozens. Again, maybe 95% of hardcore Pompey fans are willing and able to write a cheque for a grand but not willing and able to attend any meetings. But it doesn't ring true.

d. Ancillary fundraising activity would be on an absolutely colosall scale. If Portsmouth is typical of the nation, the city as a whole would have raised about £250K for Comic Relief this year. The Trust are trying to raise about eight times that. Does the activity and publicity feel about eight times as big to you? It doesn't to me. Selling T-shirts to raise a few hundred quid is cute, but pretty useless.

e. The loyal, enthusiastic Pompey fans you know would be showing a VERY high propensity to pay up their £1,000. I'd say I know about 50 Pompey fans quite well. And these 50 are pretty "hardcore" - season ticket holders, regular away attendees, have the disposal income to go to lots of games etc. If you aren't getting nearly all of these sort of people to handover £1,000, it's hard to see where you are getting the support from. Of the 50 people I know, two have handed over £1K (both rather sceptically) and four or five have put down the £100, but only one expects to be able to complete on the other £900. So, in broad terms, of the 50 fans I know, the Trust will raise about £2,500 or £50 per head. This makes £1.8m a very steep hill indeed. (If my mates are representative, you'd need to find a total of 36,000 such Pompey fans to raise the targeted amount. There aren't that many)

f. You'd need to believe that for every one Pompey fan willing to pay, say, a total of £100 to attend the Tranmere away game, there are six Pompey fans willing to hand over a grand to the Trust. This doesn't sound very likely to me at all.

 

By jove I think she's got it.

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From the Snooze site. Quite perceptive for a skate!

 

SarahPFC

 

9:35 PM on 15/12/2012

 

Let's be clear about this. There is no reason of "commercial confidentiality" to not release the numbers. I'm afraid that the Trust is probably way, way off reaching its £1.8m target. I know the numbers are complicated by syndicates etc, but in very broad terms, the Trust need 1,800 to hand over £1,000 each.

 

Ask yourself what sort of background noise or mood music we'd be witnessing if they were anywhere close to this total..

 

a. We'd be seeing a flood of people on twitter or on sites like this saying "I've paid my grand". We have seen a tiny trickle. I'd say, at a cursory glance, no more than 10 or 20 such people on this site - the main local news site for the city.

b. We'd be seeing a very large number of local news stories of businesses or local "celebrities" saying they'd paid up their pledge. Again, there has been a tiny trickle of this sort of stuff. But if 1,800 people really are ponying up, about 1,750 of them seem to guard their privacy very, very jealously indeed.

c. Trust meetings would be absolutely packed to the rafters. If you're so passionate about the club that you're willing to stump up a grand, you're disproportionately likely to be willing to attend a meeting for an hour or so. Attendance at these meetings has typically been measured in the dozens. Again, maybe 95% of hardcore Pompey fans are willing and able to write a cheque for a grand but not willing and able to attend any meetings. But it doesn't ring true.

d. Ancillary fundraising activity would be on an absolutely colosall scale. If Portsmouth is typical of the nation, the city as a whole would have raised about £250K for Comic Relief this year. The Trust are trying to raise about eight times that. Does the activity and publicity feel about eight times as big to you? It doesn't to me. Selling T-shirts to raise a few hundred quid is cute, but pretty useless.

e. The loyal, enthusiastic Pompey fans you know would be showing a VERY high propensity to pay up their £1,000. I'd say I know about 50 Pompey fans quite well. And these 50 are pretty "hardcore" - season ticket holders, regular away attendees, have the disposal income to go to lots of games etc. If you aren't getting nearly all of these sort of people to handover £1,000, it's hard to see where you are getting the support from. Of the 50 people I know, two have handed over £1K (both rather sceptically) and four or five have put down the £100, but only one expects to be able to complete on the other £900. So, in broad terms, of the 50 fans I know, the Trust will raise about £2,500 or £50 per head. This makes £1.8m a very steep hill indeed. (If my mates are representative, you'd need to find a total of 36,000 such Pompey fans to raise the targeted amount. There aren't that many)

f. You'd need to believe that for every one Pompey fan willing to pay, say, a total of £100 to attend the Tranmere away game, there are six Pompey fans willing to hand over a grand to the Trust. This doesn't sound very likely to me at all.

 

By jove I think she's got it.

 

Yes and she's now actually saying they're not the bestestest!

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Anyone know if this woman on the Snooze is right on this stuff?

 

[h=4]SarahPFC[/h]11:19 PM on 15/12/2012In a desire to look for further evidence of people pledging, I decided to take a look at the Trust's facebook page, which I've now "liked".

 

http://www.facebook.com/PompeySupportersTrust?fref=ts

 

As someone who has spent over three years working in the charitable fundraising sector, it has to be said that this further confirms my worst fears. The page only has 744 "likes".

 

This is, in essence, a fairly tiny fan page.

 

Not at all the sort of size you'd expect for any organisation with the remotest prayer of raising £1.8m. (by contrast, Battersea Dogs Home has 178,000 "likes", Comic Relief has over 420,000, the United Kingdom Independence Party - which raises way less than £1m a year from its members - has over 12,000 "likes").

 

The page itself implores supporters for good news stories. "Please send us the best stories of share syndicates etc." There are just 2 "likes" and no comments left.

 

In one particularly sad post, it asks people to "like" a post if they have converted their £1K pledge. A miserable total of 32 people have done so - and only 5 others leave comments saying that they intend to.

 

These numbers are, I'm sorry to say, truly derisory in the context of what the Trust is seeking to achieve. They simply do not remotely chime with an organisation that has the slightest prayer of raising £1.8m in a relatively short period of time.

 

Another post asks supporters to complete the sentence "I purchased my PST share because....". Only 9 people have chosen to complete the sentence. Of which one says "don't count your chickens" and another is part of a consortium which hopes to buy a share soon. It's not obvious that the other seven are all £1K pledgers either.

 

It's fair to say, that the sort of support on Facebook for the Trust is along the lines of a fairly local charity that might - with superhuman effort - raise £250K or so per annum. Possibly, with unbelievable, almost obscene effort, a bit more than that.

 

But nowhere near £1.8m. Absolutely nowhere near. Any organisation (especially relating to football) that was on target for that sort of figure would typically have about ten or twenty times as much support on Facebook and hundreds of likes and comments for each individual post.

 

Worse still, some of the comments, especially the most recent ones are actually very hostile to the Trust.

 

Perhaps, as well as being unbelievably reticent and private about making donations, people from our city also have an unusual allergy to Facebook! If not, the Trust's prospects look truly awful.

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Anyone know if this woman on the Snooze is right on this stuff?

 

SarahPFC

 

11:19 PM on 15/12/2012In a desire to look for further evidence of people pledging, I decided to take a look at the Trust's facebook page, which I've now "liked".

 

http://www.facebook.com/PompeySupportersTrust?fref=ts

 

As someone who has spent over three years working in the charitable fundraising sector, it has to be said that this further confirms my worst fears. The page only has 744 "likes".

 

This is, in essence, a fairly tiny fan page.

 

Not at all the sort of size you'd expect for any organisation with the remotest prayer of raising £1.8m. (by contrast, Battersea Dogs Home has 178,000 "likes", Comic Relief has over 420,000, the United Kingdom Independence Party - which raises way less than £1m a year from its members - has over 12,000 "likes").

 

The page itself implores supporters for good news stories. "Please send us the best stories of share syndicates etc." There are just 2 "likes" and no comments left.

 

In one particularly sad post, it asks people to "like" a post if they have converted their £1K pledge. A miserable total of 32 people have done so - and only 5 others leave comments saying that they intend to.

 

These numbers are, I'm sorry to say, truly derisory in the context of what the Trust is seeking to achieve. They simply do not remotely chime with an organisation that has the slightest prayer of raising £1.8m in a relatively short period of time.

 

Another post asks supporters to complete the sentence "I purchased my PST share because....". Only 9 people have chosen to complete the sentence. Of which one says "don't count your chickens" and another is part of a consortium which hopes to buy a share soon. It's not obvious that the other seven are all £1K pledgers either.

 

It's fair to say, that the sort of support on Facebook for the Trust is along the lines of a fairly local charity that might - with superhuman effort - raise £250K or so per annum. Possibly, with unbelievable, almost obscene effort, a bit more than that.

 

But nowhere near £1.8m. Absolutely nowhere near. Any organisation (especially relating to football) that was on target for that sort of figure would typically have about ten or twenty times as much support on Facebook and hundreds of likes and comments for each individual post.

 

Worse still, some of the comments, especially the most recent ones are actually very hostile to the Trust.

 

Perhaps, as well as being unbelievably reticent and private about making donations, people from our city also have an unusual allergy to Facebook! If not, the Trust's prospects look truly awful.

 

It makes you wonder.

 

What role are the nutjobs to play if the very Skates we wish to educate are now 'getting it?'

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It makes you wonder.

 

What role are the nutjobs to play if the very Skates we wish to educate are now 'getting it?'

 

From the data available to the public, this SarahPFC makes some very sensible observations and interpretations. The PDT won't tell anything about community involvement, but she is looking at the absence of ripples around the PDT - and that might very well be a telling sign.

 

However, it has to be said that a number of nutjobs too have remarked this over the last week; if the PDT had the slightest bit of succes they'd be shouting it from the rooftops...

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Express FM reporting that despite what Trust are saying the adjournment is a disaster. Club set to run out of cash flow money on 21 December. There is money in the club but that will need to go towards creditors and Birch. Club may be liquidated before Boxing Day if issues are not resolved.

We keep hearing these "Mayan" prophecies about the Cheats. Ignore all dates except the big one: the day of the last parachute payment. Then the festering cesspit of a club will surely meet its end.

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Asking for a bit of help from down under. It has recently come to my attention that the Port*mouth supporters group in Aus has 251 members. Our group is sitting on 213 members so for anyone on facebook that could join our group it would be greatly appreciated. We meet up all over the country to watch games live in the early hours of the morning and act as a family away from home for travelling Saints fans. The banter on the page is quality and some of the pictures and stories told are worth seeing! To find us search for 'Southampton Australian Supporters' on facebook or head to the following link. http://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/Southampton-Australian-Supporters/188516634508187?fref=ts

Cheers in advance!

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with reference to Sarah's comments, I'm not sure the comparison's with the other charities Facebook pages carries any weight whatsoever. I'm not saying she is wrong in doubting they are on target, in fact the earlier post was quite convincing, but I just don't think the number of facebook likes for battersea dogs home can be used as evidence that they aren't.

 

The PST need 1800 offering £1000, not 18,000 offering £100 or £180,000 offering £10 (maybe that would have been a better way to go?) so it's not about getting huge numbers of people donating, it's about convincing a couple of thousand that this can work. Of those couple thousand how many are actually joining facebook pages and liking stuff?

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I wonder if Porky Penny has coughed up her grand. She has mouthed off so often about the Trust that she is duty bound to support the PDT but you would like to think that a member of Her Majesty's Government would have the insightful skills not to be taken in by fantasiists and b u l l s h i t.

 

It would be funny if she hasn't, though not at all surprising.

 

Anyone know if this woman on the Snooze is right on this stuff?

 

[h=4]SarahPFC[/h]11:19 PM on 15/12/2012In a desire to look for further evidence of people pledging, I decided to take a look at the Trust's facebook page, which I've now "liked".

 

http://www.facebook.com/PompeySupportersTrust?fref=ts

 

In one particularly sad post, it asks people to "like" a post if they have converted their £1K pledge. A miserable total of 32 people have done so - and only 5 others leave comments saying that they intend to.

 

These numbers are, I'm sorry to say, truly derisory in the context of what the Trust is seeking to achieve. They simply do not remotely chime with an organisation that has the slightest prayer of raising £1.8m in a relatively short period of time.

 

Another post asks supporters to complete the sentence "I purchased my PST share because....". Only 9 people have chosen to complete the sentence. Of which one says "don't count your chickens" and another is part of a consortium which hopes to buy a share soon. It's not obvious that the other seven are all £1K pledgers either.

 

When you combine this hilarious analysis along with the soundbites by the fan on the board elects, the HNWs paying for Trevors fuel and lunch bills... it starts to paint quite a picture.

 

Moneyfieldsclub.jpg

 

Moneyfieldstrain.jpg

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Would like to join in but I don't/won't have anything to do with that face thingy and I also live in NZ.

I know one fan who is originally from Southampton but he now lives in Adelaide and I have no idea if he is

on that face thingy. I will contact him and ask.

 

That would be great. Spread the word! Some of the Melbourne Saints group are heading over to Adelaide to meet up with them for the Villa game so get onto him about the facey thingy. Cheers.

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You always worry when you see "pompey" and "charity" in the same sentance. But they made a thousand pounds, so with the exception of birch, that is a pretty good result down there...............Lets hope they get to see it.

 

Hmmmmmm.

 

They sold 1,700 blue santa suits at £10 a pop.

 

They then had a game of pass the parcel and a snow machine in the car park.

 

So, from their £17,000 worth of sales, they probably spent £1000 on the snow machine and a couple of shirts or socks wrapped up in some paper from poundland!

 

They made £1000 profit.

 

This means the cost of the blue santa suits was £15000 - for 1898 suits, a cost of £7.90 per suit! - Assuming of course the admin for selling the suits and other associated labour was provided free of charge, what with this being a charity event!

 

Not sure about you guys, but for me, once again these figures just don't add up! Those suits wouldn't have cost more than £1 each made in some sweat shop in Thailand, including the cost of transportation! You'd therefore expect them to have made at least £10,000 for charity based on those figures!

 

It's quite funny though that they have a number of 'Del Boys' associated with the club who are more than happy to rip off their own fans to make a fast buck!

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with reference to Sarah's comments, I'm not sure the comparison's with the other charities Facebook pages carries any weight whatsoever. I'm not saying she is wrong in doubting they are on target, in fact the earlier post was quite convincing, but I just don't think the number of facebook likes for battersea dogs home can be used as evidence that they aren't.

 

The PST need 1800 offering £1000, not 18,000 offering £100 or £180,000 offering £10 (maybe that would have been a better way to go?) so it's not about getting huge numbers of people donating, it's about convincing a couple of thousand that this can work. Of those couple thousand how many are actually joining facebook pages and liking stuff?

 

The other major difference is that the PDT aren't a charity and aren't (theoretically) looking for donations. Realistically, although the idea of lots of fans owning a small share is good for PR, to raise the most money they need people to put up large amounts of money. It's more realistic to search for one fan to put in £100k than 100 to put in £1k.

 

They could be doing better with other fund-raising routes though. If they sold badges or stickers at a huge mark-up, then they could raise some money from the kind of grass roots support that Sarah thinks that they should be generating.

 

The problem is that administering these things takes time, money, staff and the inclination to do it. Why isn't Sarah doing something rather than highlighting what isn't being done? The divisions and finger-pointing gives the trust a whiff of doom about it and I honestly cannot see their takeover succeeding unless something changes drastically soon.

 

My money's on liquidation or a Chainrai stooge, trust is toast.

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It's more realistic to search for one fan to put in £100k than 100 to put in £1k.

 

That's the thing I don't get about this whole PDT thing. Yes, it's more realistic to search for one fan to put in £100k, but the £1000 share doesn't exactly encourage ordinary fans to get involved, either.

 

Surely a £100 price point would have encouraged far more participants - they'd have raised more money and got a bigger buy-in from their fans.

 

Jeez, even Neil Allen hasn't forked out for a whole share himself. And if the PDT can't get their head of propaganda to shell out a grand, what hope have they got for the rest of their fanbase?

 

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2

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I wonder if Porky Penny has coughed up her grand. She has mouthed off so often about the Trust that she is duty bound to support the PDT but you would like to think that a member of Her Majesty's Government would have the insightful skills not to be taken in by fantasiists and b u l l s h i t.

 

Is it claimable on Parliamentary expenses?

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Jeez, even Neil Allen hasn't forked out for a whole share himself. And if the PDT can't get their head of propaganda to shell out a grand, what hope have they got for the rest of their fanbase?

 

As indicators go, that has to be right up there. Fiasco.

 

It's going to be a hell of a job organising the non-league Phoenix club at this rate. So much dis-trust. :/

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That's the thing I don't get about this whole PDT thing. Yes, it's more realistic to search for one fan to put in £100k, but the £1000 share doesn't exactly encourage ordinary fans to get involved, either.

 

Surely a £100 price point would have encouraged far more participants - they'd have raised more money and got a bigger buy-in from their fans.

 

Jeez, even Neil Allen hasn't forked out for a whole share himself. And if the PDT can't get their head of propaganda to shell out a grand, what hope have they got for the rest of their fanbase?

 

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2

 

There's a tricky balance to be struck. There are probably a number of fans that would buy one share to make a point. They want to price the share so that it is just about affordable. Is a fan who can just about afford £1k really going to buy 10 shares or just 1?

 

I'm not entirely convinced that they've got the pricing right or marketed and explained it correctly, but they aren't likely to be dealing with sophisticated of experienced investors. I think that there are people who have pledged who think that they will be able to get their £1k back if they need the money, due to the ability to get a refund on the £100 deposit, when this isn't the case.

 

It seems that the original plan was based on a huge number of fans all buying a share, but as this hasn't come to fruition they've had to re-write on the fly, which is why all of their plans that enter the public domain look so amateurish. After the result that was "just what they wanted" in court, I fully expect the plans to have been completely re-written again.

 

From: http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/sport/pompey/portpin-told-leave-with-your-heads-held-high-1-4591936

 

...PKF and REL are locked in a live commercial negotiation over terms and conditions.

 

PKF are selling FP to REL.

 

They have hit some kind of troublesome terms and conditions issue - but this is OBVIOUSLY a matter for them.

 

Since this just comes from the comments section of the snooze, I don't know it it really is Micah Hall or just someone using a similar name, however, if this is true, it's a change in the arrangement that was publicised at the time that the prospectus was issued. Then, they were saying that it was a sale of the whole package, not piecemeal, now it seems it's actually a sale of individual assets separately. This was the argument against Chainrai taking ownership of the ground, but not the club.

 

This is the single best reason for the trust not to announce anything, the things they plan fall apart within a couple of weeks. Better for people to think you a fool than to open your mouth and confirm it.

Edited by dvaughanwilliams
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I am afraid not. The news as a whole made a syndicate pledge............All the reporters combined have one pledge.

 

If Neil Allen and the others had made a contribution I'd expect them to keep it quiet if they have any sense. If Chainrai ends up in charge again, the News has to deal with it. Arguably Allen's public position on that point is already a problem for the News. I'd expect Chainrai to ban him from the ground and ban his manager and players from speaking to Allen. Allen could be out of a job.

Edited by TopGun
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I am afraid not. The news as a whole made a syndicate pledge............All the reporters combined have one pledge.

 

He is only part of one syndicate, ie he is paying £100 (or whatever the share is) to be part of it. He has not bought the full £1000, he disclosed this on Twitter I think. Unfortunately the sad little git has blocked me so I cant confirm it.

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If Neil Allen and the others had made a contribution I'd expect them to keep it quiet if they have any sense. If Chainrai ends up in charge again, the News has to deal with it. Arguably Allen's public position on that point is already a problem for the News. I'd expect Chainrai to ban him from the ground and ban his manager and players from speaking to Allen. Allen could be out of a job.

 

Therein lies the problem. Allen got completely carried away by the wave of emotion from Pompey fans deseperate for a change from the old routine. Instead of treating both bids with objectivity, he lumped all in with the Trust and decided the best way forward was many public denigrations of Chainrai and Portpin. Fair enough for the man in the street; a truly imbecilic decision from a supposedly independent journalist.

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So. Even the News Journos, who promote the Anyone but Chanrai campaign will not stump up real money to save the club that gives them their income.

 

Why are we not surprised? Since day one it has been give us money because we deserve it. Possibly the WORST example of New Britain's "Entitlement" culture on record.

 

We are approaching 1600 pages of epic hilarity. All because not ONCE has any one down that end of the M27 LISTENED TO ANY ADVICE.

 

It is everyone else's fault, not theirs.

 

I feel tremendously sad for my skate mates, true fans who gave up going when the sh1t hit the fan and they realised what a con they had been victims of. I feel tremendously sad for the family of the fan who passed away.

 

But, the underlying fact is, that for almost 80,000 posts, we have simply sat here and stated the bleedin' obvious.

 

Dear skates. If someone 3,500 miles away could see what was coming, and some 80,000 posts have given you advice, I guess none of you are going to listen when we say

 

WE

 

TOLD

 

YOU

 

SO

 

Why oh why did you not start the Pheonix club? You lost Nottarf and all your history 3 years ago.

 

Your ONLY salvation now is the Bulldozer and praying that somebody can find an old Subbuteo stadium on ebay.

 

Wake up, smell the coffee and work to a realistic solution.

 

But you won't will you.

 

You just love getting butt f\/cked more than Bearsy's Anastasia

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