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Yes but who are the bloody owners of PCFC ??????

 

I don't think it matters to the league - it is the 'football'club' wanting access to its leagues that matters, not who the owners are. By definition almost all clubs that go into admin end up being owned or titled differently when they come out the other end.

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He therefore still retains a £7M loan, and I'm guessing here, that this is secured against the other assets of the club (Players...)?

 

If that were the case, and (what with them being crap and on big wages) noone wanted them might Balu be able to have them come round his house and do a few odd jobs (cut the grass, creosote the fence, maybe look after the kiddies while he and Mrs C popped out for a fish supper)?

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Big form which you only get 15 mins to complete, else you have to start again. Only fast typists need consider reporting tax dodgers.

 

Completely unconnected, of course, and simply to give an idea of how fast I can type - it takes me about 20 seconds to type 'Harry Redknapp, Peter Storrie and Milan Mandric, Portsmouth City Football Club'. Now if I knew anyone who was a bit dodgy tax-wise do you think I would be able to complete the form in time?

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Big form which you only get 15 mins to complete, else you have to start again. Only fast typists need consider reporting tax dodgers.

 

Completely unconnected, of course, and simply to give an idea of how fast I can type - it takes me about 20 seconds to type 'Harry Redknapp, Peter Storrie and Milan Mandric, Portsmouth City Football Club'. Now if I knew anyone who was a bit dodgy tax-wise do you think I would be able to complete the form in time?

 

Pesky Session variables huh... guess it'll have to be a copy and paste job then!

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Big form which you only get 15 mins to complete, else you have to start again. Only fast typists need consider reporting tax dodgers.

 

Completely unconnected, of course, and simply to give an idea of how fast I can type - it takes me about 20 seconds to type 'Harry Redknapp, Peter Storrie and Milan Mandric, Portsmouth City Football Club'. Now if I knew anyone who was a bit dodgy tax-wise do you think I would be able to complete the form in time?

 

You can always draft the answers in Word and copy and paste when you go to the form.

 

Someone on here is blatantly gonna submit one for a laugh:D

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I would think that HMRC are already fully geared up and ready to rock& roll :smt070

 

As we agreed the other day Badgerx16, I think HMRC / High Court will ignore anything that has happened since the issue of the WUO. They stated on Tuesday they will make a statement tomorrow.

Everything reported to date is from the Pompey perspective.

Let the fun start !

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I would think that HMRC are already fully geared up and ready to rock& roll :smt070

 

One would assume if they are going to do anything it'll be before admin?

 

Looki like kingsland red managed to answer this before it was posted.

Edited by andysstuff
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For those that are interested, here is the difference between a mortgage and a charge, from the Companies House website:

 

1. What are mortgages and charges?

 

A charge is security for the payment of a debt or other obligation that does not pass 'property' or any right to possession to the person to whom the charge is given.

A mortgage is security for the payment of a debt or other obligation that passes 'property' but no right to possession to the person to whom the mortgage is given.

The original particulars filed by Portpin Limited with Companies House which was created on the 6th October described the loan instrument as a "Charge Deed".

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So tomorrow's admin day unless the lovely Judge-lady or perhaps HMRC have other ideas. SSN just showed how the table will look come Saturday morning if this does go ahead. 17 points from safety, 12 games left. Which I suppose means that if Hull/Wolves et al carry on getting about a point a game on average means they have to get another 27 points from 12 games - giving the kind of success ratio that even Chelsea & ManYoo haven't managed over the past 6 games.

 

Not sure if it's been mentioned before, but they're toast

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I don't think it matters to the league - it is the 'football'club' wanting access to its leagues that matters, not who the owners are. By definition almost all clubs that go into admin end up being owned or titled differently when they come out the other end.

 

Thanks for that it gets worse for them by the minute .sob Sob

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SSN just showed how the table will look come Saturday morning if this does go ahead.

 

when palarse went into admin a few weeks ago, the FL didn't formally update the league and deduct the 10 points until they had official confirmation from the court and the administrator

 

that is unlikely all to happen tomorrow, takes a couple of days.......taking us up to Monday, when it could all change again. instead of taking 9 points off, they might need to be taking 16 off

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OK further opinion time:

 

Administration will not be overturned on Monday - the Winding up Order will be stayed.

 

Why?

 

Well if the club was trading insolvent before, all that trading is ring fenced and frozen from tomorrow.

 

The club is now being run by a qualified insolvency expert acting as Administrator. He will be working on behalf of the creditors. He will be looking, financed fully by Chainrai, to find a buyer for the football club which will be able to trade going forward.

 

A winding up will close the club, the players will be free agents and there will be no asset. No asset means no sale and no money for the creditors.

 

It is a no brainer. The court will not grant HMRC to proceed, of that I am pretty sure.

 

Let's hear from some of our insolvency experts (I mean those qualified in the field) Does my opinion hold water and is it the favoured opinion?

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OK further opinion time:

 

Administration will not be overturned on Monday - the Winding up Order will be stayed.

 

Why?

 

Well if the club was trading insolvent before, all that trading is ring fenced and frozen from tomorrow.

 

The club is now being run by a qualified insolvency expert acting as Administrator. He will be working on behalf of the creditors. He will be looking, financed fully by Chainrai, to find a buyer for the football club which will be able to trade going forward.

 

A winding up will close the club, the players will be free agents and there will be no asset. No asset means no sale and no money for the creditors.

 

It is a no brainer. The court will not grant HMRC to proceed, of that I am pretty sure.

 

Let's hear from some of our insolvency experts (I mean those qualified in the field) Does my opinion hold water and is it the favoured opinion?

 

i think you're right weston, its what's is most likely to happen. just not want HMRC wanted to happen, but they've been stymied

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I also see Mick McCarthy is warning Pompey may be dangerous according to teamtalk.

 

Now, I always thought it to be a bit of a rough old dump where I would think twice before wondering around in my colours but if an old school hardman, and one working in Wolverhampton at that, tells us this I find myself wondering whether it's even more of a ****-hole than I thought

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OK further opinion time:

 

Administration will not be overturned on Monday - the Winding up Order will be stayed.

 

Why?

 

Well if the club was trading insolvent before, all that trading is ring fenced and frozen from tomorrow.

 

The club is now being run by a qualified insolvency expert acting as Administrator. He will be working on behalf of the creditors. He will be looking, financed fully by Chainrai, to find a buyer for the football club which will be able to trade going forward.

 

A winding up will close the club, the players will be free agents and there will be no asset. No asset means no sale and no money for the creditors.

 

It is a no brainer. The court will not grant HMRC to proceed, of that I am pretty sure.

 

Let's hear from some of our insolvency experts (I mean those qualified in the field) Does my opinion hold water and is it the favoured opinion?

 

I deal in M&A but I am no lawyer...but as discussed earlier the cOurt might reject the Administration request on the following grounds:

 

1. Chanrai is not a preferred creditor (only preferred creditors can ask for Admin at this stage.

2. There was a breach of the WUP (see guided missiles excellent thread)

3. HMRC could ask for a delay of their application pending their hearing on Monday.

 

I agree that it will a technical issue that would stop a judge and there appears to be quite a bit of ammunition that HMRC have ..but tomorrow will be interesting Mon Ami.. Qui?

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OK further opinion time:

 

Administration will not be overturned on Monday - the Winding up Order will be stayed.

 

Why?

 

Well if the club was trading insolvent before, all that trading is ring fenced and frozen from tomorrow.

 

The club is now being run by a qualified insolvency expert acting as Administrator. He will be working on behalf of the creditors. He will be looking, financed fully by Chainrai, to find a buyer for the football club which will be able to trade going forward.

 

A winding up will close the club, the players will be free agents and there will be no asset. No asset means no sale and no money for the creditors.

 

It is a no brainer. The court will not grant HMRC to proceed, of that I am pretty sure.

 

Let's hear from some of our insolvency experts (I mean those qualified in the field) Does my opinion hold water and is it the favoured opinion?

But is it? Surely it's ring fenced from when administration is granted. If it's not?

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OK further opinion time:

 

Administration will not be overturned on Monday - the Winding up Order will be stayed.

 

Why?

 

Well if the club was trading insolvent before, all that trading is ring fenced and frozen from tomorrow.

 

The club is now being run by a qualified insolvency expert acting as Administrator. He will be working on behalf of the creditors. He will be looking, financed fully by Chainrai, to find a buyer for the football club which will be able to trade going forward.

 

A winding up will close the club, the players will be free agents and there will be no asset. No asset means no sale and no money for the creditors.

 

It is a no brainer. The court will not grant HMRC to proceed, of that I am pretty sure.

 

Let's hear from some of our insolvency experts (I mean those qualified in the field) Does my opinion hold water and is it the favoured opinion?

 

 

Round and round and round she go's, where she stops nobody knows....

 

Weston Saint, it is my understanding, that they have to apply for administration. I asked this question before, could not the courts prevent administration, based on the facts that a) they are insolvent, and B) they have no assests to make administration a viable proposition.

 

Answers on a postcard please!!!!!!!

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Sorry if I'm being thick about this, but I still can't get my head around the fact that they & their directors have been trading insolvently & illegally. So now they go into Administration & they can get away with this? "ring fenced" as quoted. now when they go to court to get Administration, is this one of the things the court will look at being insolvent or is it just whether they can get a viable club out of it at the end of the day.

Or is that they may be granted Administration but HMRC would then peruse the directors for their money?

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MEGA LOL ! ive had a reply from charles sale, wants my phone number to discuss!

 

GM, ive sent you a pm, only fair you do the talking, as you did the digging!

 

It would indeed be great if there really is something in GM's findings that Jacobs, on behalf of Chainrai, attempted to dispose of PFC assets after the winding-up order had been served. However, did I also read on GM's original post on this that subsequently he had added that there might have been a charge in Chainrai's name on just Fratton Park, made at the time of the loan to Al Mirage?

 

If so, then it all might be above board. Naturally, I sincerely hope not. ;)

 

But thanks for spending the time digging this up, GM.

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I deal in M&A but I am no lawyer...but as discussed earlier the cOurt might reject the Administration request on the following grounds:

 

1. Chanrai is not a preferred creditor (only preferred creditors can ask for Admin at this stage.

2. There was a breach of the WUP (see guided missiles excellent thread)

3. HMRC could ask for a delay of their application pending their hearing on Monday.

 

I agree that it will a technical issue that would stop a judge and there appears to be quite a bit of ammunition that HMRC have ..but tomorrow will be interesting Mon Ami.. Qui?

OK so say tomorrow the Administrator finds he has no authority because Chainrai was not a preferred creditor ( think he is by the way) he applies to the court on Monday and will get permission from the court for the reasons I have suggested.

 

But as you say, tomorrow and the next few days following will be interesting and hopefully entertaining

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Round and round and round she go's, where she stops nobody knows....

 

Weston Saint, it is my understanding, that they have to apply for administration. I asked this question before, could not the courts prevent administration, based on the facts that a) they are insolvent, and B) they have no assests to make administration a viable proposition.

 

Answers on a postcard please!!!!!!!

The team is an asset (lol) To contunue playing they will qualify for end of season payments and parachute payments. There will be transfer fees apart from those whose contracts end Winding up will stop that. No PL payments and no fees as they will all be free agents.

 

I have explained the insolvency. That will be ring fenced and frozen. Chainrai is now funding in full so from Administration they are solvent going forward.

 

Apparently 15 playing staff contracts are up at the end of the season (including loan players)

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When you sit back and think about what has happened in the last 11 months it is breathtaking. We were days from admin and the club was on its last legs. While the ****s down the road were in the prem league, just won cup and about to be bought out by another rich **** (or so they thought). We went through admin, days, even hours from being finished, whilst they mocked us.

The turnaround from then to now is little short of a film script. We have a stinking rich owner with the brains and infrastructure to take us to the prem whilst spending within our means, we have had 30,000 + crowds three times in the last couple of months and we are playing in a cup final at Wembley in a few weeks time, only 361 days after going to admin. Those ****s were apparently 'fine' and have lurched from one **** up to the next and now their entire existence is hanging in the balance. Even if they don't get WU and they find a buyer with minimal brain cells who thinks investing in them will be a good idea, they will be screwed for years. This turnaround has happened in such a short space of time its unreal, it doesnt seem that long ago they were goading us for nearly going out of business. I had given up ever being ahead of them again for the foreseeable future given the two clubs position, but in my head we are miles ahead of them now. If you just think about how quickly this has happened for both clubs its ****ing mental. **** Pompey Up the Saints

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The team is an asset (lol) To contunue playing they will qualify for end of season payments and parachute payments. There will be transfer fees apart from those whose contracts end Winding up will stop that. No PL payments and no fees as they will all be free agents.

 

I have explained the insolvency. That will be ring fenced and frozen. Chainrai is now funding in full so from Administration they are solvent going forward.

 

Apparently 15 playing staff contracts are up at the end of the season (including loan players)

 

 

Ummmm!!!!!...........we'll see. I'm not saying you're wrong, but I have believed all along, that they will get their come-upence, and I still believe that. I will be rooting for HMRC, I think they will have something left to say on this.

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When you sit back and think about what has happened in the last 11 months it is breathtaking. We were days from admin and the club was on its last legs. While the ****s down the road were in the prem league, just won cup and about to be bought out by another rich **** (or so they thought). We went through admin, days, even hours from being finished, whilst they mocked us.

The turnaround from then to now is little short of a film script. We have a stinking rich owner with the brains and infrastructure to take us to the prem whilst spending within our means, we have had 30,000 + crowds three times in the last couple of months and we are playing in a cup final at Wembley in a few weeks time, only 361 days after going to admin. Those ****s were apparently 'fine' and have lurched from one **** up to the next and now their entire existence is hanging in the balance. Even if they don't get WU and they find a buyer with minimal brain cells who thinks investing in them will be a good idea, they will be screwed for years. This turnaround has happened in such a short space of time its unreal, it doesnt seem that long ago they were goading us for nearly going out of business. I had given up ever being ahead of them again for the foreseeable future given the two clubs position, but in my head we are miles ahead of them now. If you just think about how quickly this has happened for both clubs its ****ing mental. **** Pompey Up the Saints

 

Succinct and spot on - well said. It reminds of the time when Bagpuss was sent up the M27 to relegate us, and then returned to Poopey, job done. I was more angry then than I had ever been, but remember saying to myself - 'this isn't over mate, we're in the dark days now but the circle will complete and we will have a reversal of fortune'.

 

It's been quite a wait, but it has happened at long last.

 

COYR

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OK further opinion time:

 

Administration will not be overturned on Monday - the Winding up Order will be stayed.

 

Why?

 

Well if the club was trading insolvent before, all that trading is ring fenced and frozen from tomorrow.

 

The club is now being run by a qualified insolvency expert acting as Administrator. He will be working on behalf of the creditors. He will be looking, financed fully by Chainrai, to find a buyer for the football club which will be able to trade going forward.

 

A winding up will close the club, the players will be free agents and there will be no asset. No asset means no sale and no money for the creditors.

 

It is a no brainer. The court will not grant HMRC to proceed, of that I am pretty sure.

 

Let's hear from some of our insolvency experts (I mean those qualified in the field) Does my opinion hold water and is it the favoured opinion?

 

Added to that, it appears the FL will be using future TV/parachute monies to pay wages until the end of the season, but only of course if the skates go into administration, as opposed to being liquidated on Monday.

 

Having said that, the court must follow the letter of the law (even if it means finding that the administration is invalid, and so liquidation and no money for the creditors).

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