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I like the way you paint us as though we were desperately trying to adjust, perhaps right at the end we were but that wasn't where the problems began.

 

It's more like someone who has his pay cut in half but continues to live the high life regardless.

 

We didn't have to make all those big signings under Burley, we should have adjusted. We gambled on promotion and failed.

 

We did effectively have our income cut in half and I completely agree that we overspent under Burley (albeit still only marginally) and we failed to cut our costs quickly enough till it was too late, but that is still a whole fecking world away from from what the CHEATS have done.

They have just taken the pee from day one, recklessly squandering borrowed money, whilst complaining how unfair it is that they are expected to suffer the consequences. You don't rack up debts like theirs through a bit of bad budgeting and bad luck, you do it through wilfully reckless spending of other people's money.

It is cheating at best, criminal at worst. Very different.

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How many goalkeepers have made a successful jump into management?

 

I can only think of Kevin Blackwell, off the top of my head.

 

Julio Iglesias was a keeper wasn't he? As was Albert Camus.

 

Raymond Goethals wasn't bad and Bruce Arena too.

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Wouldn't AA hope to be out of it by then? What happens to PFC then wouldn't concern him.

 

AA is Chainrai's lapdog. Chainrai possibly intends to be around long enough to siphon off as much of the parachute money as possible from the rotting P***** corpse.

 

I was careful not to point a finger in a told you so way, as a lot of the people who were predicting their demise I have respect and a lot of time for.They werelooking at it from a normal business practice way. It just felt all wrong and they were somehow getting away with it. It seems to me that they have done everything against all rules of trading and have put 2 fingers up to the world and got away with it. they even got UEFA and the PL to change the rules allowing them to sign Ohara and Owesi (sp) who both played their parts in getting them to the cup final.If the truth of their debtsa had been publicised then the judge would have had to wind them up, again nothing has happened and they have made at present a#ses of the law.

The other sppoky thing is that when I was on here when they were playing Covin the cup and they equalised last minute, i then thought they would win the cup. Ok I was wrong but bloody close.I am now going to bang my head a 100 times to stop having such thoughts in the future

It is incredulous

 

Hopefully you'll also be wrong but bloody close about them getting away with it. :D

 

 

CHEATING BASTARDS

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http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/sport/Star-backed-to-be-new.6312735.jp

 

"Richard Hughes told the Portsmouth News: "Jamo is the person to go for. It's the move which makes sense to me. He ticks all the right boxes and would be the logical solution."

 

So then, the likely boxes that need ticking:

 

a. Managerial experience

b. Experienced at working within a (very) tight budget

c. Experience of working largely with kids who have little or no playing experience

d. Experience of working for an owner who 'only wants his money back and has no desire to own or run a football club'

 

Errr, yep - dead right Richard, it's totally logical to me as well....! :-k

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Ok most succesful manager that used to be a goalkeeper that I can think of is Dino Zoff (sure he's already been mentioned).

 

One that hasn't is Jock Wallace - used to be lower level goalkeeper in England & Scotland before going on to be part of the team that managed Rangers to the 1972 CWC, before he became sole manager afterwards - and went on to break Celtic's 9 titles in a row streak.

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Is the rest of the footbal world oblivious to the crime/conduct of Pompey. It seems that they have been allowed carte blanche to do as they please and laugh off the mere fact they have debts of 130+ m.

It astounds me, and if they end up with a half decent squad and a hgihly paid manger!!!

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Is the rest of the footbal world oblivious to the crime/conduct of Pompey.

 

You really do spout bollo*ks.

 

Every man and his dog knows they are in £130mill of debt and know just how they got in it.

 

Just because they haven't all jumped up and down and demanded the death of pfc and blame Registrars for not killing them doesn't mean they're oblivious.

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Is the rest of the footbal world oblivious to the crime/conduct of Pompey. It seems that they have been allowed carte blanche to do as they please and laugh off the mere fact they have debts of 130+ m.

It astounds me, and if they end up with a half decent squad and a hgihly paid manger!!!

nick..you are turning hysterical

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You really do spout bollo*ks.

 

Every man and his dog knows they are in £130mill of debt and know just how they got in it.

 

Just because they haven't all jumped up and down and demanded the death of pfc and blame Registrars for not killing them doesn't mean they're oblivious.

well they dont seem to be doing anything about it. The press are happily buying into AA and his statements,. They are playing to his tune and not questioning the claims at all.

I agree I talk bollix but it seems to be closer to the truth than some bollix some others talk about what is going to happen.

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You really do spout bollo*ks.

 

Every man and his dog knows they are in £130mill of debt and know just how they got in it.

 

Just because they haven't all jumped up and down and demanded the death of pfc and blame Registrars for not killing them doesn't mean they're oblivious.

 

Having followed Pompey for a fair few years would you care to explain bit by bit how we got in debt because most Pompeys fans I know are gobsmacked how we got into so much debt despite the fact we sold nearly £80m worth of players last year...

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well they dont seem to be doing anything about it. The press are happily buying into AA and his statements,. They are playing to his tune and not questioning the claims at all..

 

Get over yourself. They just re-hash press releases and easy soundbites.

 

They know, hence the blogs like the BBC one but do you really think any of the press really gives a sh*t about pompey?

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Having followed Pompey for a fair few years would you care to explain bit by bit how we got in debt because most Pompeys fans I know are gobsmacked how we got into so much debt despite the fact we sold nearly £80m worth of players last year...

 

Simple. The players sales where simply not enough to balance the insane wages you commited yourself too. There was not enough money comming through the door from TV money and Match Day income to come anywhere near the wage bill. 80 million in sales is not the net figure though, you will have also spent money to bring these guys in to start with.

 

Out of interest, what wages are your squad on right now (and what money were your prior stars being paid?), it'll be easy to do at the least a rough calculation to see where most of the money heamorraged too.

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well they dont seem to be doing anything about it. The press are happily buying into AA and his statements,. They are playing to his tune and not questioning the claims at all.

I agree I talk bollix but it seems to be closer to the truth than some bollix some others talk about what is going to happen.

 

Nickh, most of the time all the media is doing is basically reporting what AA is saying.

 

And most of the time what AA says is complete crap.

 

AA could say tomorrow they are close to agreeing terms to signing Riquelme and most of the papers would swallow it up and print it just for reasons of sensationalism.

 

All we have been hearing from Grant and AA in recent months is PR, which the media feeds off. Whether it has anything to do with reality is quite another matter.

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Having followed Pompey for a fair few years would you care to explain bit by bit how we got in debt because most Pompeys fans I know are gobsmacked how we got into so much debt despite the fact we sold nearly £80m worth of players last year...

 

Doesn't take a genius to work out that when player salaries are over 90% of income you're in the shi**er.

 

If you can't work out how you've been living beyond your means for at least the last 5 years then there is no hope.

 

Crouch on 90k, Defoe on 90k etc.......You do the maths.

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Simple. The players sales where simply not enough to balance the insane wages you commited yourself too. There was not enough money comming through the door from TV money and Match Day income to come anywhere near the wage bill. 80 million in sales is not the net figure though, you will have also spent money to bring these guys in to start with.

 

Out of interest, what wages are your squad on right now (and what money were your prior stars being paid?), it'll be easy to do at the least a rough calculation to see where most of the money heamorraged too.

 

Plus Pompey's financial troubles accelerated wildly when Gaydamak Snr had his assets (ie blood money) frozen, something which even Storrie has openly admitted contributed greatly to their current situation

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Plus Pompey's financial troubles accelerated wildly when Gaydamak Snr had his assets (ie blood money) frozen, something which even Storrie has openly admitted contributed greatly to their current situation

 

Yes, and the same could happen to Chelsea if Abrahmovic suddenly pulled the plug for any reason. They only get by with him writing off debt every now and then. IIRC the last time he wrote a cheque for some £300m?

 

I think that should ML tire of us it would not be so bad as we are running on a budget. Having said that, none of us really know for sure if the Staplewood development has been afforded by him loaning the club the cash to pay for it?

 

Anyways up, when compared to the FSBs we do pay our taxes and on time as well as all other bills because of ML's business ethics.

 

Whereas those in charge at Poopey have had no ethics for at least the past two years.

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Storrie didn't bother to include the small matter of wages into his calculations.

 

The sums are quite simple

Buy five players, make huge profit on one, break even on two, lose money on two = no money lost overall, and let's not forget the bonus opportunity to deal personally with the agents....

 

 

The transfer deals look okay when you don't take into account agent fees and wages, and there were so many deals it's as if someone was getting paid just for signing players.

 

Even since January I would estimate that the handful of additions to the squad have cost the administrator/club over £5M in 'fees', wages, contract buy outs and little extras, more than sensibly-run competing club's budgets.

 

That was not 'poor plucky Pompey' making it to Wembley, that was a club still paying over the odds for average players to strengthen their squad whilst trading insolvently.

 

Paying ludicrous wages that the club can't afford is clearly cheating.

When Crouch was lured from Champion's League football with his wages doubled the alarm bells should have been a ringing.

When Arsenal couldn't match Diarra's wage demands but Pompey could, it was obvious what was going wrong, and the debts just kept climbing.

 

And when they lost their main source of grubby money did they slow the spending?

 

No, they changed up into fifth and drove the bus over the cliff.

Now they seem surprised to find themselves on the rocks - then again who could have predicted the situation we now see.

 

 

(other than about 1,000 people on here, or a six year old with a basic grasp of numbers)

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None of us really know for sure if the Staplewood development has been afforded by him loaning the club the cash to pay for it?

 

Nicola Cortese has said in interview on numerous occasions the club has no debt to anyone, including loans from Liebherr. The Liebherr family "seem" to have a business policy of having no debt, dating back to when Hans Liebherr started in the 1940's and this has carried on with his children.

 

http://www.fundinguniverse.com/company-histories/LiebherrInternational-AG-Company-History.html

Edited by Matthew Le God
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Is the rest of the footbal world oblivious to the crime/conduct of Pompey. It seems that they have been allowed carte blanche to do as they please and laugh off the mere fact they have debts of 130+ m.

It astounds me, and if they end up with a half decent squad and a hgihly paid manger!!!

 

nick, did you actually read this:-

 

www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/spor...-COP-QUIZ.html

 

I would think that the FL are fully aware of the ongoing investigations taking place with regards to TCBOCDTR. Whilst I agree, that it looks like no-one is interested, we know the media in this country are like rabid dogs when bad news breaks. So I still think it will be a long summer of discontent for those cheats.

Edited by Gingeletiss
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Nicola Cortese has said in interview on numerous occasions the club has no debt to anyone, including loans from Liebherr. The Liebherr family "seem" to have a business policy of having no debt, dating back to when Hans Liebherr started in the 1940's and this has carried on with his children.

 

http://www.fundinguniverse.com/company-histories/LiebherrInternational-AG-Company-History.html

 

Thanks, I had forgotten that.

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Thanks, I had forgotten that.

 

This was a key quote from that article I linked...

 

Hans Liebherr told Fortune reporter Robert Ball that he believed that owing money to other people was gambling. He was aware that his enterprise could have grown faster with the help of bank loans but adhered strictly to his maxim that money could only be spent after it was earned. Liebherr flew economy class and drove a seven-year-old Mercedes. Besides financial conservatism, Liebherr believed in decentralization. Every new subsidiary's top management was fully responsible for its operation. Fewer than 20 people worked at the group's headquarters.
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Having followed Pompey for a fair few years would you care to explain bit by bit how we got in debt because most Pompeys fans I know are gobsmacked how we got into so much debt despite the fact we sold nearly £80m worth of players last year...

 

Simple, the team with the second lowest Premiership crowds and a money laundering owner (Gaydalek senior) decided to employ a quarter of the England team plus loads of other well known internationals and to top it all they paid a fortune to a complete kn0b to run it all. Is it really a complete surprise?

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Simple, the team with the second lowest Premiership crowds and a money laundering owner (Gaydalek senior) decided to employ a quarter of the England team plus loads of other well known internationals and to top it all they paid a fortune to a complete kn0b to run it all. Is it really a complete surprise?

LOL

 

summed up well

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Having followed Pompey for a fair few years would you care to explain bit by bit how we got in debt because most Pompeys fans I know are gobsmacked how we got into so much debt despite the fact we sold nearly £80m worth of players last year...

 

Most pompey fans live in a dreamworld that's why, some still think you will have England's keeper in goal next season despite being one of the poorer Championship clubs.

 

The entire time you were in the Prem you were not run as a business, even under Mandric you were bankrolled, it's no wonder so many skates don't have a clue.

 

It will be a serious wake up and smell the coffee time for you skates next season, without the parachutes you have the spending power of a Barnsley or Bristol City.

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nick, did you actually read this:-

 

www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/spor...-COP-QUIZ.html

 

I would think that the FL are fully aware of the ongoing investigations taking place with regards to TCBOCDTR. Whilst I agree, that it looks like no-one is interested, we know the media in this country are like rabid dogs when bad news breaks. So I still think it will be a long summer of discontent for those cheats.

No i didnt read that and thanks for putting it up.

I wonder if she will save her bacon and give evidence thaqt stuufs the rest. i do hope so. This of course may make a difference to the FL as they may look dimly on this. Perhaps this is why the HMRC may allow the CVA and let them survive as long as they get the others.I think HR etc have annoyed them and the might be looking to pin him etc

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Most pompey fans live in a dreamworld that's why, some still think you will have England's keeper in goal next season despite being one of the poorer Championship clubs.

 

The entire time you were in the Prem you were not run as a business, even under Mandric you were bankrolled, it's no wonder so many skates don't have a clue.

 

It will be a serious wake up and smell the coffee time for you skates next season, without the parachutes you have the spending power of a Barnsley or Bristol City.

 

But at least they've got the bestest fans in the world. And it's quality not quantity. Remember that.

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nick, did you actually read this:-

 

www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/spor...-COP-QUIZ.html

 

I would think that the FL are fully aware of the ongoing investigations taking place with regards to TCBOCDTR. Whilst I agree, that it looks like no-one is interested, we know the media in this country are like rabid dogs when bad news breaks. So I still think it will be a long summer of discontent for those cheats.

 

Intersting read.

 

I bet she's singing like a bird. 2 years service and dumped on by the various new owners. She won't have any mis-guided loyalty issues to deal with. No wonder the Police view her as a key witness.

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I have another question though and this may be naive or interesting ... One thing pompey fans keep going on about .. as indeed do certain broadcasters is tthe issue with teh fit and proper test, in which the biggest questions seems not to be teh important ones, such as character, integrity, business acumen, and impoprtantly an interest in ensuring a club remains a focas of and integrated with teh community and its fans.... no the only question that is rased is 'checking if they have the money'. Now forgive me, but what the flying feck has that got to do with it? Presumuably they have the money to buy the necessary shares (please exclude the glazier type purchase where the club becomes security for the loans issued to purchase it in the first place thus landing a club in debt, albeit in the form of managed loans) to take over the club.

 

But why is it EXPECTED that a new owner MUST also have tons of cash to throw at the team? Why is it that new owners are blamed becaus ethey do NOT invest in the team and cover the contractual overspend entered into by previous owners? Surely if the baord go and spend stupid money on the expectations /promises made by owners, then they are guilty of incompetence as no one should risk the business on the ground of promises - you need to wait until its sitting in the account.

 

I know in Pompeys case the various owners would possibly have struggled to pass teh fit and proper on grounds of itegruity and character, but its not ever clear why fans and pundits seem to think you cant own a club if you are not prepared to splash teh cash and underwrite the financial incompetence of teh board - although naturally it should be argued that you would fail on the business accumen part if you let your board get away with stupid spending.

 

In effect, its no different to NC saying to Pards what do you need?, Pards getting players in for say 40 mil and committing us to an extra 20 mil a season in wages over our income.... with fans and NC and Pards all expecting, without any guarrantees that ML would somehow write this off and cover it... when what he does is walk away because its a mess - or have teh ground and staplewood transferred into his name to at least get the purchase price back when admin comes to town...

 

NOw that might be a very simplistic interpretation of the pompey saga, but it just highlights the naiviety and issues surrounding this fan and football world in general expectation of owners to stump up ....

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With all due respect Cousin all you seem to have done is regurgitate the excuses made by Peter Storie and Avram Grant. Mr Storie will tell you (till he is blue in the face) that 'yes' he did the deals and 'yes' he attracted the high earners to the club, but he did it because he believed the owner was happy and willing to bankrole the deals. As a result he will also tell you that 'yes' he deserved a flamin' great bonus based on the amount of money he was bringing into the club. How the hell that works I know not.

 

Mr Grant, on the other hand, will also tell you (again, till he is blue in the face), that it is not his fault, nor the players, nor the staff, nor the fans. None of them have done anything wrong - and perhaps he is right. But then again, people on the outside of the organisation can see straight away that there are problems, so are you trying to tell me that all of those most closely connected with the club had no idea about the state of play. The man takes the general public for fools.

 

Let him (G)rant and rave - he's very very good at identifying the (allegedly) innocent parties, how come he has no idea about the guilty fukors, especially as they probably had an office two doors down from his. Honestly, you thought Lowe was a tool - this guy is a complete crettin.

 

As for the FAPP - I'm not sure that money comes into it, at least I think that is the (official) line. I believe it focus's on your character and business dealings in 'whatever' area, as opposed to the size of your wallet. Mind you, that said, let's not kid ourself, being 'Mr Sceptical', and also seeing how some of the filthy money has filtered into our football, I think the people overseeing the FAPP test probably work for the same government department that oversee MP's expences.

 

Frankly Cousin (see what I did there...!), it's getting time for the fat lady to have her say and not pull any punches, time to stop bleating about how innocent we are, how hard done by we are, how it wasn't anybodies fault and how nobody is to blame. The owners should have 'stumpped up' as you put it, either that or not bought the players in the first place - simple business rules.

 

Cheat at your peril.

Edited by Micky
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FC, as far as I know the FPPT does not take account the wealth of the individual or group that take over a club.

 

All it does is establish who the owner(s) are and that they have a clean record of running a business with no convictions.

 

The PL have stated that what it covers is a bit of mismatch with the title "F and PPT" (from their meeting with the skate fan delegation), although from next season they have added a few rules dealing with finance (was in guardian a few months back) and they meet the owner(s) in person.

 

Your example would be hard to achieve from next season, as the FL have insisted on viewing the clubs' accounts and need a level of assurance (how that is ascertained I don't know) about being able to pay their way for the forthcoming season. That is why clubs are starting to take notice of what independant auditors are saying on end of year accounts.

 

Of course, it will not stop a rogue club such as the skates from doing such but the consequences I would expect would be servere.

Edited by Doctoroncall
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I have another question though and this may be naive or interesting ... One thing pompey fans keep going on about .. as indeed do certain broadcasters is tthe issue with teh fit and proper test, in which the biggest questions seems not to be teh important ones, such as character, integrity, business acumen, and impoprtantly an interest in ensuring a club remains a focas of and integrated with teh community and its fans.... no the only question that is rased is 'checking if they have the money'. Now forgive me, but what the flying feck has that got to do with it? Presumuably they have the money to buy the necessary shares (please exclude the glazier type purchase where the club becomes security for the loans issued to purchase it in the first place thus landing a club in debt, albeit in the form of managed loans) to take over the club.

 

But why is it EXPECTED that a new owner MUST also have tons of cash to throw at the team? Why is it that new owners are blamed becaus ethey do NOT invest in the team and cover the contractual overspend entered into by previous owners? Surely if the baord go and spend stupid money on the expectations /promises made by owners, then they are guilty of incompetence as no one should risk the business on the ground of promises - you need to wait until its sitting in the account.

 

I know in Pompeys case the various owners would possibly have struggled to pass teh fit and proper on grounds of itegruity and character, but its not ever clear why fans and pundits seem to think you cant own a club if you are not prepared to splash teh cash and underwrite the financial incompetence of teh board - although naturally it should be argued that you would fail on the business accumen part if you let your board get away with stupid spending.

 

In effect, its no different to NC saying to Pards what do you need?, Pards getting players in for say 40 mil and committing us to an extra 20 mil a season in wages over our income.... with fans and NC and Pards all expecting, without any guarrantees that ML would somehow write this off and cover it... when what he does is walk away because its a mess - or have teh ground and staplewood transferred into his name to at least get the purchase price back when admin comes to town...

 

NOw that might be a very simplistic interpretation of the pompey saga, but it just highlights the naiviety and issues surrounding this fan and football world in general expectation of owners to stump up ....

 

 

A very grey subject, but I do believe that a new owner should provide financial details of their wealth even if they don't wish to use any of it.

 

At the end of the day there is no guarantee what the new owner plans.

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With all due respect Cousin all you seem to have done is regurgitate the excuses made by Peter Storie and Avram Grant. Mr Storie will tell you (till he is blue in the face) that 'yes' he did the deals and 'yes' he attracted the high earners to the club, but he did it because he believed the owner was happy and willing to bankrole the deals. As a result he will also tell you that 'yes' he deserved and flamin' great bonus based on the amount of money he was bringing into the club. How the hell that works I know not.

 

Mr Grant, on the other hand, will also tell you (again, till he is blue in the face), that it is not his fault, nor the players, nor the staff, nor the fans. None of them have done anything wrong - and perhaps he is right. But then again, people on the outside of the organisation can see straight away that there are problems, so are you trying to tell me that all of those most closely connected with the club had no idea about the state of play. The man takes the general public for fools.

 

Let him (G)rant and rave - he's very very good at identifying the (allegedly) innocent parties, how come he has no idea about the guilty fukors, especially as they probably had an office two doors down from his. Honestly, you thought Lowe was a tool - this guy is a complete crettin.

 

As for the FAPP - I'm not sure that money comes into it, at least I think that is the (official) line. I believe it focus's on your character and business dealings in 'whatever' area, as opposed to the size of your wallet. Mind you, that said, let's not kid ourself, being 'Mr Sceptical' and also seeing how some of the filthy money has filtered into our football, I think the people overseeing the FAPP test probably work for the same government department that oversee MP's expences.

 

Frankly Cousin (see what I did there...!), it's getting time for the fat lady to have her say and not pull any punches, time to stop bleating about how innocent we are, how hard done by we are, how it wasn't anybodies fault and how nobody is to blame. The owners should have 'stumpped up' as you put it, either that or not bought the players in the first place - simple business rules.

 

Cheat at your peril.

 

All fair points but I was really wanting an answer as to WHY pompey fans and the media pundits seem to think that the FAPP test should be about bankrolling finacial incompetence and in effect buying a footballing advantage.

 

FWIW, IMHO, I believe that all clubs shoul have to submit a budget for approval to teh FA/PL/FL whoever BEFORE the transfer season window opens and before teh nesxt season starts. All clubs taht have rich owners should only eb alllowed to GIFT the club (no loans) a maximum of 25% of their previous years turnover and ALL clubs must thus live within their means. If clubs want to borrow from banks, it should only be for major infrastructure investment and the club must demonstrate that the repayments are possible if relegated.

 

All clubs must have reduction terms in contracts for relegation and If a club cannot afford the wages for the squad on relegation, it must transfer list players to value of the wgaes tehy can nnot afford and those players not be allowed to represent the club in all competitions thus removing teh advantage created by having players you cannot afford.

 

Never going to happen, and in some cases open to various legal challenges, but teh principl;es would see us have a more level playing field and a far more financially stable club system....

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FC, as far as I know the FPPT does not take account the wealth of the individual or group that take over a club.

Nor was it ever intended to, on the basis that clubs should not be reliant on handouts from their owners to remain "solvent" (and I use that term in the loosest possible sense).

 

If they want to take the risk of going down the benefactor route whereby the investor(s) put their money in by way of soft loans rather than gifts, that's their lookout, and there's not really much the Premier League can (or should) do about that. The clubs have to take the responsibility for the way in which they conduct their business, that's the bottom line.

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All fair points but I was really wanting an answer as to WHY pompey fans and the media pundits seem to think that the FAPP test should be about bankrolling finacial incompetence and in effect buying a footballing advantage.

Because they're idiots, basically.

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