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I fail to follow his reasoning behind that statement, unless he is trying to justify it on grounds of the trickle down of funds into the lower leagues because the Premiership gravy train benefits from the players maintaining their astronomical salary levels at the expense of us taxpayers and other unsecured creditors.

 

And in any event, what about the counter argument? Smaller clubs suffering, or small businesses, charities and schools suffering instead as in the case of the Skates. Seems pretty clear cut as to which it should be to me.

 

I guess that if the FCR was removed that the total sums for transfers would probably go down as the club selling would be more inclined to insist on the full sum up front. Some might say that this is a necessary adjustment anyway.

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when administration was started AA secured a fixed amount of money to fund the administration. Has any one tried running a spreadsheet showing the cash flow and when it runs out (ran out?)

 

Indeed, and it seems that the papers are now starting to cotten on that money is still flooding out through the doors.

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I guess that if the FCR was removed that the total sums for transfers would probably go down as the club selling would be more inclined to insist on the full sum up front. Some might say that this is a necessary adjustment anyway.

 

If so, the counter argument would be that in that event, player values and prices would also fall and become more affordable to those lower league clubs. At the moment the gap between players' prices at the top and lower down are far too wide, exacerbating the gulf between the Premiership and the divisions below. But I agree with your point; it's long overdue that clubs are encouraged to live within their means instead of doing deals on the never never.

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If so, the counter argument would be that in that event, player values and prices would also fall and become more affordable to those lower league clubs. At the moment the gap between players' prices at the top and lower down are far too wide, exacerbating the gulf between the Premiership and the divisions below. But I agree with your point; it's long overdue that clubs are encouraged to live within their means instead of doing deals on the never never.

 

Also, of course, it would help to bring down the ludicrous wages. Players and their agents would be much less cavalier about signing on for mega-bucks with potentially dodgy clubs (eg the CHEATS) if their money wasn't guaranteed. Think back to last season and some of the comments from other clubs about Poopey paying over the odds and those players would need to ask - do I take £10/week from steady, well run Wolves or £20k/week from those shysters who might end up giving me 4p in the pund for five years?

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An ongoing problem here is that this has been one of those rare stories where there's little media understanding of what is occuring yet they don't bother to seek specialist advice.

As a result we've been treated to Storrie's, Grant's, AA's, and various chancers' views of what will happen next, often printed as fact to fill the vacuum created by lack of balanced info.

 

So when AA tells the paper that he's confident of something they print it without question and the dimmer fans just lap it up - hence the ridiculous inaccurate transfer and contract stories we keep seeing.

There are still people in Pompey who think AA is going to re-write the way that the UK calculates VAT, have them out of admin two months ago and get them into Europe.

 

And as the other party is HMRC who are reluctant to spin, most of football is just getting plucky little Pompey's and their bestest fans' version of life.

 

Methinks there may be an alternative version of events still to be aired - and that the taxman must have bitten right through his lip trying to maintain a dignified silence - a silence only broken by the noise of tax officials erecting gallows in the car park.

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If so, the counter argument would be that in that event, player values and prices would also fall and become more affordable to those lower league clubs. At the moment the gap between players' prices at the top and lower down are far too wide, exacerbating the gulf between the Premiership and the divisions below. But I agree with your point; it's long overdue that clubs are encouraged to live within their means instead of doing deals on the never never.

 

 

I think what the prem and possibly the fl will be worried about, is the risk of not being able to attract the top football stars to come play in the uk. The tax laws here are awful compared to many other country's and maybe it's this tax dodge that encourages top players to come.

 

If the FCR gets over turned, clubs pay less for players but up front, miss out on the best players cause after tax wage demands are too high and the uk leagues are weaker than they previously have been.

 

Why would top earners choose the uk over Spain?

 

This could be the beginning ofthings being done properly but could it also be the beginning of the UK leagues losing there grasp of being some of the best in the world?

 

Edit:

Sorry I am mixing the FCR and image right issue up a bit above but both have implications which could effect who will come to the UK in the future. 1 from clubs not being able to afford massive transfer fee's up front and the other of offering wages that compete with wages in the rest of Europe. Either way it could make things tricky for UK clubs.

 

Should UK tax laws be looked at for sportsmen and women? Not just in football but in all sports. What's his face who is fast as foo k won't run here unless it's a major tourny cause he doesn't want to get whacked for tax.

Edited by saintjay77
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I think what the prem and possibly the fl will be worried about, is the risk of not being able to attract the top football stars to come play in the uk. The tax laws here are awful compared to many other country's and maybe it's this tax dodge that encourages top players to come.

 

If the FCR gets over turned, clubs pay less for players but up front, miss out on the best players cause after tax wage demands are too high and the uk leagues are weaker than they previously have been.

 

Why would top earners choose the uk over Spain?

 

This could be the beginning ofthings being done properly but could it also be the beginning of the UK leagues losing there grasp of being some of the best in the world?

 

There obviously needs to be an adjustment across europe as well as just in the UK. just look at the size of the Barcelona debt at the moment..

 

FC Barcelona’s money troubles seem to have cascaded even further following a fresh audit into the clubs finances revealing the Catalonians total debt standing at €442m (£369.5m) after a significant loss of €77m (£64.36m) last season.

The new audit which has been undertaken by Deloitte for new club president Sandro Rosell has revealed a significant increase in debt following the decision to take out a £125million loan in order to fund necessities such as player’s wages.

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This could be the beginning ofthings being done properly but could it also be the beginning of the UK leagues losing there grasp of being some of the best in the world?

 

And what exactly is the problem with that?

Wouldn't it be awful to lose all that shady money coming in from abroad to be churned and squandered, the huge and growing disparity betweem the Prem (TM bestest league in the world) and the rest of football, those egotistical foreign owners, over-rated foreign managers and diving, cheating mercenary foreign players (mostly) only here for a quick and easy buck, the hideous creature that is Sky dominating our game and all those JCL fans who have the shirt but only watch football on the TV.

I'm not sure I would ever get over my disappointment....

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I think what the prem and possibly the fl will be worried about, is the risk of not being able to attract the top football stars to come play in the uk. The tax laws here are awful compared to many other country's and maybe it's this tax dodge that encourages top players to come.

 

If the FCR gets over turned, clubs pay less for players but up front, miss out on the best players cause after tax wage demands are too high and the uk leagues are weaker than they previously have been.

 

Why would top earners choose the uk over Spain?

 

This could be the beginning ofthings being done properly but could it also be the beginning of the UK leagues losing there grasp of being some of the best in the world?

 

Edit:

Sorry I am mixing the FCR and image right issue up a bit above but both have implications which could effect who will come to the UK in the future. 1 from clubs not being able to afford massive transfer fee's up front and the other of offering wages that compete with wages in the rest of Europe. Either way it could make things tricky for UK clubs.

 

Should UK tax laws be looked at for sportsmen and women? Not just in football but in all sports. What's his face who is fast as foo k won't run here unless it's a major tourny cause he doesn't want to get whacked for tax.

 

IMO the PL is not the best league in the world, it is a fallacy. it is the best at promoting itself, all down to Sky.

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There obviously needs to be an adjustment across europe as well as just in the UK. just look at the size of the Barcelona debt at the moment..

 

Yeah I agree there needs to be some kind of regulation on football in general. But is that really going to happen any time soon?

 

The image rights tax dodge needs to be closed down as it is a blatant P take but if company's, football or otherwise, want to bring the best talent to the uk, the standard tax laws mean most sportsmen/women will more likely choose country's that let them have more of the money they earn.

This could either mean clubs don't bother competing for the best players as they run within realistic budgets or they pay even more exagerated wage demands to compete with what other country's can offer.

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Yeah I agree there needs to be some kind of regulation on football in general. But is that really going to happen any time soon?

 

The image rights tax dodge needs to be closed down as it is a blatant P take but if company's, football or otherwise, want to bring the best talent to the uk, the standard tax laws mean most sportsmen/women will more likely choose country's that let them have more of the money they earn.

This could either mean clubs don't bother competing for the best players as they run within realistic budgets or they pay even more exagerated wage demands to compete with what other country's can offer.

 

Is there not a uefa law or similar coming into force about club finances?

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IMO the PL is not the best league in the world, it is a fallacy. it is the best at promoting itself, all down to Sky.

 

I'm not saying it is the best league. I think the UK leagues are among the best in the world but couldn't single out the prem for anything special. It's up there for sure but there are a lot of problems that if sorted out would make it plumit.

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I think what the prem and possibly the fl will be worried about, is the risk of not being able to attract the top football stars to come play in the uk. The tax laws here are awful compared to many other country's and maybe it's this tax dodge that encourages top players to come.

 

If the FCR gets over turned, clubs pay less for players but up front, miss out on the best players cause after tax wage demands are too high and the uk leagues are weaker than they previously have been.

 

Why would top earners choose the uk over Spain?

 

This could be the beginning ofthings being done properly but could it also be the beginning of the UK leagues losing there grasp of being some of the best in the world?

 

Edit:

Sorry I am mixing the FCR and image right issue up a bit above but both have implications which could effect who will come to the UK in the future. 1 from clubs not being able to afford massive transfer fee's up front and the other of offering wages that compete with wages in the rest of Europe. Either way it could make things tricky for UK clubs.

 

Should UK tax laws be looked at for sportsmen and women? Not just in football but in all sports. What's his face who is fast as foo k won't run here unless it's a major tourny cause he doesn't want to get whacked for tax.

 

Yes, you could well be right about the FA and FL being worried about many of the overseas stars not coming here if the tax regime was altered so that they didn't have enticements to high earnings because of the FCR and image rights. But on the other hand, we did appallingly badly in the World Cup because the English youngsters cannot find places in the top Premiership teams because of all the foreign stars, whereas Spain and Germany fared a lot better with their home grown players and less imported ones. However, much of the revenue coming into the British game is from TV rights where our matches are screened around the World and where the big teams have already established a brand awareness and following that will be hard to displace.

 

Longer term, our dominance will decline anyway through other factors, like the rise in popularity of football in the USA and also possibly in India, China and other parts of the Far East where the Premiership is watched avidly.

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Yes, you could well be right about the FA and FL being worried about many of the overseas stars not coming here if the tax regime was altered so that they didn't have enticements to high earnings because of the FCR and image rights. But on the other hand, we did appallingly badly in the World Cup because the English youngsters cannot find places in the top Premiership teams because of all the foreign stars, whereas Spain and Germany fared a lot better with their home grown players and less imported ones. However, much of the revenue coming into the British game is from TV rights where our matches are screened around the World and where the big teams have already established a brand awareness and following that will be hard to displace.

 

Longer term, our dominance will decline anyway through other factors, like the rise in popularity of football in the USA and also possibly in India, China and other parts of the Far East where the Premiership is watched avidly.

 

It could well be used to turn englands fortunes around in the long term. If it makes financial sense to invest in youth and build from the bottom up. Something we are already investing in so it could bode well for us if others have to follow suit.

 

What happens when we produce some world class players that will get better paid abroad though? Do they stick by the UK club that built them up to where ever they are while accepting a lower take home pay or do they look to get good and then go where the money is abroad?

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It could well be used to turn englands fortunes around in the long term. If it makes financial sense to invest in youth and build from the bottom up. Something we are already investing in so it could bode well for us if others have to follow suit.

 

What happens when we produce some world class players that will get better paid abroad though? Do they stick by the UK club that built them up to where ever they are while accepting a lower take home pay or do they look to get good and then go where the money is abroad?

 

The rate in Spain now for any new contracts is 43%, Germany is 45%, Italy is 43% while France is 40%. So would the difference (10% or less) be worth a move away from home? I can understand not so many foreign stars coming over but the english players don't do playing abroad.

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The rate in Spain now for any new contracts is 43%, Germany is 45%, Italy is 43% while France is 40%. So would the difference (10% or less) be worth a move away from home? I can understand not so many foreign stars coming over but the english players don't do playing abroad.

 

My ideas are just hypothetical and many things could be done differently to change things completely. Just cause English players don't play abroad now it doesn't mean we won't produce players that could do in the future no matter what the pay scales are anywhere.

 

It will be interesting to see what happens short term and long term if HMRC win. IMO it would be a good thing for them to win and it should set some decent ground rules for any other club.

 

The issue on tax for sports people has been brought up by usain bolt but the results of that could make a difference to all sports. If something is done it may be possible to pay sports stars less but there take home is still more than they would get elsewhere.

 

That could then open the door further for the top stars coming here.

 

Like unsaid, it's all hypothetical but the poopy case could change a lot of things in the future.

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There obviously needs to be an adjustment across europe as well as just in the UK. just look at the size of the Barcelona debt at the moment..

 

 

Borrowing to pay wages! Complete madness. It's obviously a general problem in football and perhaps the impact on the Premiership won't be as bad as some people made out if the major competition for the top players are also hit by a reversion to normal economic rules. The general level of crowds in the UK should sustain a reasonably competitive league (I'm thinking more Saints than Pimpley here, of course). Crowds in Germany make them competitive but French and Italian crowds for example are pretty pants.

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Just been browsing the blue fews reply to their local rags article about KPB having to play in championship if not sold, and I came across this comment re:- David James. "if he wants 20k give him 20k, 10k as player and 10k as coach".

I kid you not.. They just don't understand the word 'bust'. They never fail to amuse.

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Just been browsing the blue fews reply to their local rags article about KPB having to play in championship if not sold, and I came across this comment re:- David James. "if he wants 20k give him 20k, 10k as player and 10k as coach".

I kid you not.. They just don't understand the word 'bust'. They never fail to amuse.

 

They're really not right bright.

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Borrowing to pay wages! Complete madness. It's obviously a general problem in football and perhaps the impact on the Premiership won't be as bad as some people made out if the major competition for the top players are also hit by a reversion to normal economic rules. The general level of crowds in the UK should sustain a reasonably competitive league (I'm thinking more Saints than Pimpley here, of course). Crowds in Germany make them competitive but French and Italian crowds for example are pretty pants.

 

Obviously Barcelona are cheats as well

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Obviously Barcelona are cheats as well

 

If they have a business model that involves always running a deficit to get success on the pitch then yes they are. Does that make you feel better?!

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Obviously Barcelona are cheats as well

 

If it turns out that they are insolvent and they carry on regardless with complete disregard and no compunction whatsoever, then "yes". If they have serviceable debt, then "no".

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There obviously needs to be an adjustment across europe as well as just in the UK. just look at the size of the Barcelona debt at the moment..
You were so close!

Thee is an unfair advantage across Europe.

Do I play for almost bankrupt euro club and risk getting 4cents in the euro Or do I play for almost bankrupt Portsmouf and 100p in the £.

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Obviously Barcelona are cheats as well

 

Thing is, they could sell half there squad and be debt free.

 

Any club running on massive debt IMO is playing a dangerous game. Pompy's game has bought relative success over a few seasons but failed to generate enough support to service their expendature.

 

Global brands of Manu U, Chelsea, Barcelona, Real Madrid and Liverpool although running on massive debt or massive investment are big enough clubs so that if all goes to the wall they have the brands that could sell there way out.

 

Pompy have...........

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Thing is, they could sell half there squad and be debt free.

 

Any club running on massive debt IMO is playing a dangerous game. Pompy's game has bought relative success over a few seasons but failed to generate enough support to service their expendature.

 

Global brands of Manu U, Chelsea, Barcelona, Real Madrid and Liverpool although running on massive debt or massive investment are big enough clubs so that if all goes to the wall they have the brands that could sell there way out.

 

Pompy have...........

 

Fratton Park? Minus a few ransom strips, mind.Not forgetting the massive support..

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With the Football Creditors Rule, does anyone know what happens in Europe when a club goes into administration? For example, what happened with Real Mallorca?

There's no equivalent rule in other countries, as far as I'm aware.

 

Real Mallorca qualified for the Europa League by virtue of finishing 5th in La Liga, but as they went into administration, they were refused entry to the competition.

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(just read this on one of the pompey forums from bone 1972)

Apparently Sasha Gaydamak has seized possession of the club car park, and is turning it into an everyday usage car park, charging £5 per day non matchdays and £10 per day on matchdays.

 

He has even moved his own portacabins in and his own facilities team, I kid you not.

 

I know it's his land, but this smacks of pettiness to me.

laughing my head of if its true:lol:

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