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Does anyone still believe we will be competitive?


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The last time we were relegated from the Prem, it was clear we had stood still over the summer and failed to improve what we had just to keep up with everyone else.

 

Does anyone really still believe we will start next season in any way as competitive as this season let alone more so? Surely we should be entitled to expect the club to be serious about progress, even if only small steps that they hope will see a competitive improvement... But let's be honest, we are going to start next season worrying about relegation.

 

I am not sure whether it's naivety or design, it does not matter, but if Krueger thinks he can pull the wool over our eyes , he's is seriously naive. If KL has no interest, fair enough, she has the right not to be, but please then let it go and actively look for a decent successor. Sorry, but right now, whoever thought of this approach or is driving this strategy, it smacks of some kind of vindictive revenge... And the club is suffering because of it.

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The last time we were relegated from the Prem,

.

We also started the season with Wigley a rookie Manager who was way out of his depth and a shortage of Prem quality fit centre backs.....

 

If Lovren is offski....

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If we sell multiple players we won't be competitive. I don't know if it will be as bad as that relegation season where we obviously had no centre backs and a very weak centre mid. However no team inside the top 10 has ever sold multiple 1st team members, not even Swansea when they did excellently 2 seasons ago. If we do so we'll slide down the league and be lucky to avoid relegation. Board needs to realise that sales need to be staggered over the years to allow a proper transition to happen. They just can't sell everyone and then bring in a bunch of new players and expect anything but embarassment on the pitch.

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The problem we will have if Lallana and Shaw go as well is that some of the players that are left will be looking to leave. Players like Lovren and Wanyama were probably signed under false promises by Cortese so it's a choice between flogging them too or having demotivated players amongst the team.

 

There is no denying it, we are potentially facing meltdown. We need the board to act swiftly, appoint a good manager and either make some top signings or make it clear there will be no more sales.

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...There is no denying it, we are potentially facing meltdown. We need the board to act swiftly, appoint a good manager and either make some top signings or make it clear there will be no more sales.

That is the key problem. Where is the good Manager?

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When we got relegated we refused to sell our star striker after he made it clear he didn't want to be here any more. Beattie went on to score 2 goals before being sold at a knock down price in January. Some people seem to think we should be doing the same with Lambert. We need 100% commitment from everyone and Lambert and had he been forced to stay I doubt his heart would have been in it.

 

Our success depends entirely on who we appoint as manager and who we sign to replace the players that do leave. Nobody ever gets relegated because they sold their best players to Champions League clubs. They get relegated because they reinvest the money poorly in the wrong players, or make hasty decisions in appointing the wrong manager. Look at Everton, they were a bottom half club, then they sold Rooney and qualified for the Champions League.

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When we got relegated we refused to sell our star striker after he made it clear he didn't want to be here any more. Beattie went on to score 2 goals before being sold at a knock down price in January. Some people seem to think we should be doing the same with Lambert. We need 100% commitment from everyone and Lambert and had he been forced to stay I doubt his heart would have been in it.

 

Our success depends entirely on who we appoint as manager and who we sign to replace the players that do leave. Nobody ever gets relegated because they sold their best players to Champions League clubs. They get relegated because they reinvest the money poorly in the wrong players, or make hasty decisions in appointing the wrong manager. Look at Everton, they were a bottom half club, then they sold Rooney and qualified for the Champions League.

All the reports indicate that we tried to sell our star striker in January.

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When we got relegated we refused to sell our star striker after he made it clear he didn't want to be here any more. Beattie went on to score 2 goals before being sold at a knock down price in January. Some people seem to think we should be doing the same with Lambert. We need 100% commitment from everyone and Lambert and had he been forced to stay I doubt his heart would have been in it.

 

Our success depends entirely on who we appoint as manager and who we sign to replace the players that do leave. Nobody ever gets relegated because they sold their best players to Champions League clubs. They get relegated because they reinvest the money poorly in the wrong players, or make hasty decisions in appointing the wrong manager. Look at Everton, they were a bottom half club, then they sold Rooney and qualified for the Champions League.

 

Everton only sold Rooney

In later seasons they only sold Lescott

In later seasons they only sold Rodwell

In later seasons they only sold Fellaini

 

What they didn't do was sell the entire 1st 11 or large parts of it because that is suicidal.

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As ever, I'll judge the transfers in and out when the window closes. Until then it's all Alpine-like speculation.

 

I can't say I'm enormously optimistic, mind. But we shall see. If we're starting pre-season with Omar Rowe, Lloyd Isgrove and Sam Gallagher in the starting lineup, I might start getting worried then.

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As ever, I'll judge the transfers in and out when the window closes. Until then it's all Alpine-like speculation.

 

I can't say I'm enormously optimistic, mind. But we shall see. If we're starting pre-season with Omar Rowe, Lloyd Isgrove and Sam Gallagher in the starting lineup, I might start getting worried then.

 

"Might" get worried? You're a braver man than me Krakers

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"Might" get worried? You're a braver man than me Krakers

I'll be honest mate, I'm worried now. There's just little point in expressing it all so often as the reputable others do; we know entirely nothing right now other than that we'll lose a few players (which I expected to happen anyway).

 

Meh. Que sera, and all that. I'll still be there next year; I just may have to get more drunk on a game by game basis to numb the pain of it all!

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The last time we were relegated from the Prem, it was clear we had stood still over the summer and failed to improve what we had just to keep up with everyone else.

 

Does anyone really still believe we will start next season in any way as competitive as this season let alone more so? Surely we should be entitled to expect the club to be serious about progress, even if only small steps that they hope will see a competitive improvement... But let's be honest, we are going to start next season worrying about relegation.

 

I am not sure whether it's naivety or design, it does not matter, but if Krueger thinks he can pull the wool over our eyes , he's is seriously naive. If KL has no interest, fair enough, she has the right not to be, but please then let it go and actively look for a decent successor. Sorry, but right now, whoever thought of this approach or is driving this strategy, it smacks of some kind of vindictive revenge... And the club is suffering because of it.

 

Isn't it too early to tell? Can we at least wait and see who the manager is and what the players in/out are? I know it all feels like one way traffic at the moment but things will/might feel a whole lot better with a decent managerial appointment. Lots of clubs have had to get over the sales of their top players but they don't all just collapse as a result.

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I think it's a bit doom and gloom here, I really think we can easily get away with selling Shaw, Lallana and Lambert.

 

Fair enough it'll be different but if we appoint Koeman and give him £50m from the sales of those players and he invests it well, we'll be in a stronger position than we were this year for sure.

 

Shaw is great but his lure lies in his potential, fair enough he's very good at the minute but if we sell him for £30m and sign an established, experienced LB for around £7m then we're making a massive profit and we're getting a player who is less positionally naive than Shaw proved to be on multiple occasions this season.

Lallana is class, obviously. 90% of what we did went through him and he's a quality player, but just think about what you can get for £25m in his position. If we replaced him with a £15m attacking midfielder from abroad then I'd be happy, I also feel like Ramirez will prosper in his absence.

Lambert is a weird one, we all wanted him replaced this summer anyway if we were to push on, I'm honestly not fussed that we've sold him as it means that we HAVE to sign a big striker now and there's unlimited options from foreign leagues to replace him with who'll be much better than he is. If we signed a striker from abroad and Ings as well I'd be delighted.

 

So if we manage to keep hold of Schneiderlin, Lovren etc and only sell those three I'll be happy to be honest. Just need to replace the three of them and perhaps sign another striker as well as a CB and we'll be much stronger than last year. I also feel Koeman is a much better manager than Pochettino currently is and his experience will be vital.

 

Nothing much to worry about yet in my opinion, but absolutely everything lies on the managerial appointment.

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Isn't it too early to tell? Can we at least wait and see who the manager is and what the players in/out are? I know it all feels like one way traffic at the moment but things will/might feel a whole lot better with a decent managerial appointment. Lots of clubs have had to get over the sales of their top players but they don't all just collapse as a result.

 

We've lost one top player definitely and are rumoured to lose another 5/6. Tell me of a single premier league club this has happened to in the past. Selling multiple players is akin to playing russian roulette with relegation.

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I have every confidence that Ralph will deliver. His first priority was to sort out the mess he inherited from our previous CEO and he appears to be well on the way to doing this. Once the issues have be resolved then we can move forward with a clear horizon, nothing to worry about on our plate. Concentrating only on things that are creative not destructive. I know we are only human and we get these emotions, let's call them negate emotions, but when all these are removed and the road ahead is clear, now you're going to create something. That is where we will see the true value of Ralph.

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The last time we were relegated from the Prem, it was clear we had stood still over the summer and failed to improve what we had just to keep up with everyone else.

 

Does anyone really still believe we will start next season in any way as competitive as this season let alone more so? Surely we should be entitled to expect the club to be serious about progress, even if only small steps that they hope will see a competitive improvement... But let's be honest, we are going to start next season worrying about relegation.

 

I am not sure whether it's naivety or design, it does not matter, but if Krueger thinks he can pull the wool over our eyes , he's is seriously naive. If KL has no interest, fair enough, she has the right not to be, but please then let it go and actively look for a decent successor. Sorry, but right now, whoever thought of this approach or is driving this strategy, it smacks of some kind of vindictive revenge... And the club is suffering because of it.

Stop being such a drama queen, clearly there will be changes but lets just wait and see!

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Not very optimistic right now, all things pointing the wrong way at present. But a decent manager appointment early next week. The board grow a pair & stop the reported exodus then who knows. They really need to get some positive vibes emanating from the club to put a stop to what seems to be self sustaining s**t fest.

Maybe get Cork & Fonte signed up to new deals along with a new manager & things would start to look a whole lot better next week.

I don't feel confident that will happen though.

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I'll be honest mate, I'm worried now. There's just little point in expressing it all so often as the reputable others do; we know entirely nothing right now other than that we'll lose a few players (which I expected to happen anyway).

 

Meh. Que sera, and all that. I'll still be there next year; I just may have to get more drunk on a game by game basis to numb the pain of it all!

 

Hopefully we will all be pleasantly surprised come the start of the season. I don't think anything sinister is happening but I am concerned about the make up of our board and their ability to handle themselves in the cut throat world of the Premier League. Ultimately, too much change too soon rarely ends well.

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We've lost one top player definitely and are rumoured to lose another 5/6. Tell me of a single premier league club this has happened to in the past. Selling multiple players is akin to playing russian roulette with relegation.

 

Well let's revisit that if we lose 5 or 6 first team players - and I very much doubt that will happen despite these "rumours" to which you allude. Even if we did, a decent manager with that sort of war chest should be able assemble a decent squad. Stop getting all worked up about rumours and see what the actual facts are when the season starts.

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Hopefully we will all be pleasantly surprised come the start of the season. I don't think anything sinister is happening but I am concerned about the make up of our board and their ability to handle themselves in the cut throat world of the Premier League. Ultimately, too much change too soon rarely ends well.

As I typically do, Diggers, I totally agree with you.

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Not very optimistic right now, all things pointing the wrong way at present. But a decent manager appointment early next week. The board grow a pair & stop the reported exodus then who knows. They really need to get some positive vibes emanating from the club to put a stop to what seems to be self sustaining s**t fest.

Maybe get Cork & Fonte signed up to new deals along with a new manager & things would start to look a whole lot better next week.

I don't feel confident that will happen though.

 

Agree completely. If all that happened there could be bouncebackability after these early knock out blows. Like you i'm crossing my fingers hoping for these things rather than being confident it'll happen.

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Well let's revisit that if we lose 5 or 6 first team players - and I very much doubt that will happen despite these "rumours" to which you allude. Even if we did, a decent manager with that sort of war chest should be able assemble a decent squad. Stop getting all worked up about rumours and see what the actual facts are when the season starts.

 

Spot on! Everyone seems to be swallowing every rumour the press throws out there and so far the only player to leave was a complete out of the blue blindside and it looks like so dar the board are standing firm on the rest and at least demanding deals are done on our terms. The papers have had Lallana and shaw sold for weeks but they are still here funny how they all missed the one real deal must have been to busy making up stories about wanyama and lovren to notice!

 

I'm worried but no point in assuming the worst, let's wait till August and see who us in red and white! COYS!

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Everton only sold Rooney

In later seasons they only sold Lescott

In later seasons they only sold Rodwell

In later seasons they only sold Fellaini

 

What they didn't do was sell the entire 1st 11 or large parts of it because that is suicidal.

 

Yeah, well I'll believe that when I see it. 3 or 4 of them leaving we can cope with IF we bring in the right replacements. I doubt we will be as good as last season but apparently most people were 'bored with 8th' anyway so this will be good for the fans.

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Yeah, well I'll believe that when I see it. 3 or 4 of them leaving we can cope with IF we bring in the right replacements. I doubt we will be as good as last season but apparently most people were 'bored with 8th' anyway so this will be good for the fans.

 

Once again no team has lost 4 key players in past. The idea that we can rush out, buy 4 replacements and they'll instantly gel seems naive to me, especially as we'll likely be without our top goalscorer till xmas. Sunderland made masses of changes last season and were extremely lucky to survive due to the sheer awfulness of 3 other teams. Losing 4 will mean a demoralised squad with another group of players thinking maybe i can get out in January.

 

I certainly wasn't bored with 8th. I certainly want us to try and beat our points total and have a cup run. That requires losing minimal amounts of players.

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Do you know this for a cast iron fact or is it just that you can't remember any?

 

Been following prem league since its inception and also just now had a scan through some of the teams transfer history back to the 90's. Losing 2 is rare(remember thinking Sunderland should be worried by losing 2 key players last summer). The only examples i can see of a club losing more than that is Newcastle(the season they got relegated) and Leeds(the season they got relegated whilst bankrupt). Hardly auspicious examples. Would you care to name an example of one that lost 4 and did well?

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Once again no team has lost 4 key players in past. The idea that we can rush out, buy 4 replacements and they'll instantly gel seems naive to me, especially as we'll likely be without our top goalscorer till xmas. Sunderland made masses of changes last season and were extremely lucky to survive due to the sheer awfulness of 3 other teams. Losing 4 will mean a demoralised squad with another group of players thinking maybe i can get out in January.

 

I certainly wasn't bored with 8th. I certainly want us to try and beat our points total and have a cup run. That requires losing minimal amounts of players.

 

Sunderland bought Altidore, that pretty much sums them up. Just because it hasn't been done before (that we know of) doesn't mean it can't be done.

 

2 years ago we signed J Rod, Gaston, Boruc, Yoshida, Davis and Clyne who all went straight into the starting 11 and we did okay. It took a couple of months to get them playing together properly but we turned into a decent side after that.

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Been following prem league since its inception and also just now had a scan through some of the teams transfer history back to the 90's. Losing 2 is rare(remember thinking Sunderland should be worried by losing 2 key players last summer). The only examples i can see of a club losing more than that is Newcastle(the season they got relegated) and Leeds(the season they got relegated whilst bankrupt). Hardly auspicious examples. Would you care to name an example of one that lost 4 and did well?

 

Nope - just asked the question. As an aside, we have not lost four players, and if we eventually do we may break the pattern that you believe exists. There is no point in fretting about it.

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Sunderland bought Altidore, that pretty much sums them up. Just because it hasn't been done before (that we know of) doesn't mean it can't be done.

 

2 years ago we signed J Rod, Gaston, Boruc, Yoshida, Davis and Clyne who all went straight into the starting 11 and we did okay. It took a couple of months to get them playing together properly but we turned into a decent side after that.

 

We were battling much of that season and it's not if we sold Morgan, Lallana, Lambert and Fonte beforehand.

Maybe we can buy really well but history suggests some duds and the pure problems of trying to gel a bunch of players into an effective unit.

I'm still at times hopeful we won't lose 4, well at least in my less depressed moments i am.

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We were battling much of that season and it's not if we sold Morgan, Lallana, Lambert and Fonte beforehand.

Maybe we can buy really well but history suggests some duds and the pure problems of trying to gel a bunch of players into an effective unit.

I'm still at times hopeful we won't lose 4, well at least in my less depressed moments i am.

 

Do yourself a favour and stop dreaming up doomsday scenarios. Enjoy the Summer, the cricket and the World Cup . Liverpool bid £25m for Lallana today allegedly. On one hand that is ridiculous money - you could replace him with top quality even after handing 25% to Bompey. On the other hand, as far as I know we have snubbed it. There are positives in either scenario. I don't believe we will sell Lovren at all. The Shaw money falls into the same category as Lallana for me.

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Do yourself a favour and stop dreaming up doomsday scenarios. Enjoy the Summer, the cricket and the World Cup . Liverpool bid £25m for Lallana today allegedly. On one hand that is ridiculous money - you could replace him with top quality even after handing 25% to Bompey. On the other hand, as far as I know we have snubbed it. There are positives in either scenario. I don't believe we will sell Lovren at all. The Shaw money falls into the same category as Lallana for me.

 

I do admit press attacks have worn me down some. I still can't wait for the World Cup to start especially as it'll put that stuff down to a simmer hopefully.

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With our shiny new team and manager we will walk the league.

 

Players that left us will beg to return.

 

If Lallana leaves, I genuinely can see him back here one day when Liverpool fail to capitalise on the Champions League, sell Suarez and go back to top ten finishes. It's certainly a possibility. Sadly the same cannot be said of Lambert.

 

I'd like to think we can still be competitive next season but the right recruits need to be made. Lallana, Lambert and JRod were our creative outlets last season, that side of things needs a huge makeover. Strikers can be bought, but creativity and goal scoring in midfield is hard to come by.

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We also started the season with Wigley a rookie Manager who was way out of his depth and a shortage of Prem quality fit centre backs.....

 

If Lovren is offski....

 

we actually started that season with another out of his depth manager, although he was nowhere near as bad as Wigley. It was Rupert Lowe's ineptitude to employ a decent manager when Luggy was sacked that sent us down, the damage was done by the time count knapp turned up.

 

Thats why the board HAS to get the next manager appointment right, no one from within, no lower league bosses, no assistant coaches from other clubs, it needs to be someone with top flight experience from any of Europe's main leagues at an absolute minimum, and preferably someone who has never been relegated.

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I actually think we'd struggle a bit even if we kept all our players. I think the world cup will be pretty draining for Adam and Rickie and it wouldn't surprise me to see them take a while to get going. Im not saying we'd go down, but could see us falling back to 12th ish . We certainly needed strengthening up front regardless of Rickie going. We also needed another centre half even with no departures.

 

What do people mean by competitive, we were in most games, but weren't in the cups, were nowhere near the top 4 and from about Dec never really looked like making the Europa league. Are we going to be the best of the alsorans again, probably not, but lets not kid ourselves we never looked like winning anything or qualifying for anything even with these wonderful players.

 

Manchester Utd will be stronger, spurs probably will be. I can't see Newcastle blowing up quite so badly again. Where did people thinkk we were going to finish even with Poch,Adam Rickie and all, and wouldn't our attitude towards the cups be exactly the same with the same leadership?

 

I can see it now, a decent solid season finishing 12th and the moaners will be out in force.

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Been following prem league since its inception and also just now had a scan through some of the teams transfer history back to the 90's. Losing 2 is rare(remember thinking Sunderland should be worried by losing 2 key players last summer). The only examples i can see of a club losing more than that is Newcastle(the season they got relegated) and Leeds(the season they got relegated whilst bankrupt). Hardly auspicious examples. Would you care to name an example of one that lost 4 and did well?

 

Swansea in the summer of 2012. Lost the manager to Liverpool, Sinclair sold to Man City, Allen to Liverpool, Graham to Sunderland, Bodde to Haag + Orlandi and Dobbie to Brighton.

 

But they went on to sign 4-5 including Michu and Pablo and finished the season 9th and league cup winners ;)

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Swansea in the summer of 2012. Lost the manager to Liverpool, Sinclair sold to Man City, Allen to Liverpool, Graham to Sunderland, Bodde to Haag + Orlandi and Dobbie to Brighton.

 

But they went on to sign 4-5 including Michu and Pablo and finished the season 9th and league cup winners ;)

 

I knew somebody would do it for me :)

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Koeman and Lallana - manager and Captain

 

Lovren at the back

 

Wanyama in the middle.

 

As long as that's in place futures bright. I could sacrifice Shaw (would rather not though) to get a couple of strikers and a replacement left back.

 

Could be good.

 

I want Koeman if he comes to make a strong statement saying Lallanas going nowhere so I can enjoy watching him at the World Cup!

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We just need to get some stability very quickly. Sell the 3 and then let no more go. We must keep Lovren Wanyama and Morgan. We then have a basis to build on again. The sad thing is that seeing a mainly English team that was a credit t us will now be mainly foreign

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It's far to early to judge, but yes we could still be competitive.

 

It's easy to get negative, we are all fed up with player departure stories, but to play devils advocate...

MP departs for his pot of gold, bookies favourite is Koeman. Koeman has better record and is a much bigger name to attract signings -UK and Europe.

 

Reports are we have turned down over £50m in bids so far, hardly actions of soft touch board or fire sale.

If we lose Lambert, Lallana, Osvaldo and Shaw we will get around £65m in. The club said we didn't need to sell and had money to spend, so say £80m to spend.

Lazy research of Feynoord shoes very high quality young players.

Sign

Jordy Classie for AL

Bruno Indi martin (LS)

Pelle (RL)

 

Then add

Jean Paul boetius - goal scoring winger

Stefan de vrijs 22 year old international CB

And maybe go to ajax for their keeper, 25 year old dutch international Cilleson.

 

Reckon that would be better squad than now we money left to spend.

 

I know won't happen like that, but more likely than 8 players leaving and not being replaced.

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Swansea in the summer of 2012. Lost the manager to Liverpool, Sinclair sold to Man City, Allen to Liverpool, Graham to Sunderland, Bodde to Haag + Orlandi and Dobbie to Brighton.

 

But they went on to sign 4-5 including Michu and Pablo and finished the season 9th and league cup winners ;)

 

Only 3 of them were key players & one of those left in January.

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