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Price of Football

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Soton is hardly a wealthy city!

 

Baggies and Stoke are well aware of future fans, something our club appears oblivious to.

 

No, but Stoke and that part of Brum are much poorer.

 

The clubs don't just guess the prices, they use complex algorithms to work out the amount to maximise revenues.

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I understand basic supply and demand, my point is that is the demand isn't necessarily there at these prices, hence the lack of sell outs and the low commercial income. Would a drop in programmes prices, food, shirts stimulate getter demand and higher overall revenue? It was identified by the club that our commercial revenue was far too low for a Premier League club and lower than some Championship clubs - I would think that over-pricing would be a factor in this (why would Saints have the most expensive programme in the Premier League for example).
But the club and their advisors have obviously looked at this and adjusted prices for entry and programmes etc to the price that provides them with an optimum return. We only have "the most expensive programme in the Prem this season, our commercial figures were down in previous years, so those two things have no correlation. Do you not think that Saints and plenty of other Prem clubs haven't already put plenty of thought into this?

 

As stated before, we'll sell out for Man City at home at £40+, but haven't sold many tickets for Stoke at home on the £25 deal - so it's not simply a case of dropping prices anyway.

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But the club and their advisors have obviously looked at this and adjusted prices for entry and programmes etc to the price that provides them with an optimum return. We only have "the most expensive programme in the Prem this season, our commercial figures were down in previous years, so those two things have no correlation. Do you not think that Saints and plenty of other Prem clubs haven't already put plenty of thought into this?

 

As stated before, we'll sell out for Man City at home at £40+, but haven't sold many tickets for Stoke at home on the £25 deal - so it's not simply a case of dropping prices anyway.

 

Of course it's not.

 

I'm appalled (but not surprised) that people don't understand the basic economics of running a succesful football club, the peaks and troughs of a season, and think that the club are THAT amateurish when it comes to setting prices.

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When I asked the club why tickets for 12yo kids were so expensive compared to WBA & Stoke, my closest BPL teams, their answer was because the cost of living was cheaper in the north!

 

The club is pricing families out as many on here will attest to.

 

Saints is the only entertainment I know that counts my twelve year old son in the same price bracket as a young adult.......but what you going to do? I want to take my nipper to watch saints play it's our dad son thing so I bite the bullet and we go when I can afford it. I still miss the league one days when I could take both my kids to watch saints for less than it costs for me to get a ticket for just myself in the PL.

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No, but Stoke and that part of Brum are much poorer.

 

The clubs don't just guess the prices, they use complex algorithms to work out the amount to maximise revenues.

 

An awful lot of Stoke's following comes from Newcastle-Under-Lyme, Stone, Stafford, and the villages to the west, and traditionally has. These are affluent areas in the main.

 

Stoke are very aware that families are stretched and have made a consorted effort to ensure that kids from the city itself aren't priced out and offer great deals for youngsters and their parents through children's centres, youth groups, schools and colleges. I'm off down to the Brit' at 15.00 for a meeting. The club are very aware that the city is in the Utd/City/Liverpool catchment area. I'm willing to bet that they have one of the youngest average fan age in the country due to their polices.

 

West Bromwich isn't in Birmingham BTW.

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Are St Pauli still in the 1st division (as opposed to the Bundesliga)? Went a few years ago, had a great time.

 

Yep, Bundesliga 2.

 

13 Euros a ticket (in a terrace), beers in the bar at the stadium (busy enough for atmosphere, not so busy that you have to wait for a beer), a round of beers for 5 people in the stadium cost us under 30 euros and the next round is cheaper if you take your cup back. Plus I got a free yoyo on the way out...

 

Level of football was a lot lower than at St Mary's, but everything else, much better (although I think a replica shirt was possibly more expensive)

 

But then the level of football is of a much lower quality.

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Had never realized before just how cheap Barcelona tickets are!

 

That has to be the best value in football there.

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Authorities should allow terracing. All clubs could benefit from selling cheaper season/matchday tickets at reduced and more affordable costs for those fans who maybe cant afford to go now, as the capacity would be greater.

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It's all ******** but we knew all this anyway. I only go to 5 or so games a season these days, which is a shame as with sensible pricing I'd be there most weekends. I went to many more games when we were rubbish!

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Had never realized before just how cheap Barcelona tickets are!

 

That has to be the best value in football there.

 

Indeed. Went once when Koeman, Hagi and Stoichkov were in the team. Bought tickets which included coach travel from satellite supporters group. Was just over a fiver including travel. Would have been 91/92 maybe but still way cheaper than the Dell was at the time.

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Had never realized before just how cheap Barcelona tickets are!

 

That has to be the best value in football there.

 

Some clubs understand that it's not just about the number of people there, but who they are. It's dangerous long-term to price out your locals. Saints and others might do ok with the wealthier fans while things are going well, but is that any way to build a bigger fan base, encourage people of all backgrounds from the local area and get young fans involved? You price it cheap and make it inclusive for all, and you'll have a bigger more loyal fan base for when things aren't going quite so well.

 

I've found pricing in the last 10 years to be incredibly short sighted, and what do we have? Lots of big grounds with empty seats and clubs in financial trouble.

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Had never realized before just how cheap Barcelona tickets are!

 

That has to be the best value in football there.

 

Dont kid yourself about how wonderful Barca are overall though. Tickets to the top games are so hard to get hold of and most that are available are priced at above £120. And they sell visiting fans their team's away shirts in the Barca shop too...

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It's all ******** but we knew all this anyway. I only go to 5 or so games a season these days, which is a shame as with sensible pricing I'd be there most weekends. I went to many more games when we were rubbish!

 

Home and away nearly every week when we were on or way down and at the bottom of L1 and now picking and choosing away games now we are back in the BPL.

 

Loyalty, it would appear, does have a price.

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Of course it's not.

 

I'm appalled (but not surprised) that people don't understand the basic economics of running a succesful football club, the peaks and troughs of a season, and think that the club are THAT amateurish when it comes to setting prices.

 

So your hypothesis would be that clubs don't make pricing mistakes, even though different clubs taking difference pricing strategies?

 

There are clear examples of amateurish management of football clubs in the Premier League, I don't think you should be 'appalled' by someone questioning prices, when rises outstrip earnings, attendances are falling in some instances and clubs continue to lose money. Listen to the Dortmund executive talking about the 'mistakes' being made by Premier League clubs on pricing - that is someone working for one of the most successful clubs in Germany, not simply a fan like me.

 

I am not saying that all is wrong with the club (I think it is pretty well run), but I do wonder if the prices have been slightly overdone, threatening attendances and commercial income.

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So your hypothesis would be that clubs don't make pricing mistakes, even though different clubs taking difference pricing strategies?

 

There are clear examples of amateurish management of football clubs in the Premier League, I don't think you should be 'appalled' by someone questioning prices, when rises outstrip earnings, attendances are falling in some instances and clubs continue to lose money. Listen to the Dortmund executive talking about the 'mistakes' being made by Premier League clubs on pricing - that is someone working for one of the most successful clubs in Germany, not simply a fan like me.

 

I am not saying that all is wrong with the club (I think it is pretty well run), but I do wonder if the prices have been slightly overdone, threatening attendances and commercial income.

It is easy for someone from Dortmund to criticise the Premier League clubs - he isn't being paid to deliver commercial results for a Premier League club, so easy to comment from the outside. I'm sure there are mistakes made by clubs, but what you're suggesting is the wholesale pricing strategy is wrong, when that really doesn't seem to be the case.

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It is easy for someone from Dortmund to criticise the Premier League clubs - he isn't being paid to deliver commercial results for a Premier League club, so easy to comment from the outside. I'm sure there are mistakes made by clubs, but what you're suggesting is the wholesale pricing strategy is wrong, when that really doesn't seem to be the case.

 

Not saying the wholesale pricing structure is wrong, am merely questioning whether us having some of the highest levels of pricing (tickets, programmes, shirts etc.) in the Premier League and in Europe may be a touch overdone for a club who are mid table and win very little. A lack of sellouts and low commercial income relative to other teams in our division suggest there may be something in this. Not a black and white argument, more complexity than that, but I do think there is some opportunity to reassess prices.

 

Good debate and I see your point also, Sour Mash.

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An awful lot of Stoke's following comes from Newcastle-Under-Lyme, Stone, Stafford, and the villages to the west, and traditionally has. These are affluent areas in the main.

 

Stoke are very aware that families are stretched and have made a consorted effort to ensure that kids from the city itself aren't priced out and offer great deals for youngsters and their parents through children's centres, youth groups, schools and colleges. I'm off down to the Brit' at 15.00 for a meeting. The club are very aware that the city is in the Utd/City/Liverpool catchment area. I'm willing to bet that they have one of the youngest average fan age in the country due to their polices.

 

West Bromwich isn't in Birmingham BTW.

 

It's close enough to be called Birmingham.

 

By the way, Stoke and West Brom don't sell out every week, so it's obviously not working that well...

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Home and away nearly every week when we were on or way down and at the bottom of L1 and now picking and choosing away games now we are back in the BPL.

 

Loyalty, it would appear, does have a price.

 

So the only reason you have decided to stop going is price? Not the 400 mile round trip to every home game?

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It is easy for someone from Dortmund to criticise the Premier League clubs - he isn't being paid to deliver commercial results for a Premier League club, so easy to comment from the outside. I'm sure there are mistakes made by clubs, but what you're suggesting is the wholesale pricing strategy is wrong, when that really doesn't seem to be the case.

 

Plus take into account that they are the second biggest club in Germany, get 20,000 more fans to every single game than any other team in the country, yet consistently sell their best 2 players EVERY year to balance the books. They may get cheaper tickets, but they have to make up for those losses in revenue a different way.

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You might get more money per game from 25,000 people at £40 instead of 32,000 at £30 but in the wider picture it reduces loyalty and makes it harder to sell the PL as the most desirable fantastic league in the world to places like India and China when the grounds are clearly partly empty.

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Plus take into account that they are the second biggest club in Germany, get 20,000 more fans to every single game than any other team in the country, yet consistently sell their best 2 players EVERY year to balance the books. They may get cheaper tickets, but they have to make up for those losses in revenue a different way.

 

Not a big place though Dortmund - as % of population they have a great take up (average 80,000 attendance, 500k or so people in Dortmund), higher than most. Their own management recognise that charging higher prices would substantially reduce crowds. As for selling best players every year - isn't that our model... :)

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Not saying the wholesale pricing structure is wrong, am merely questioning whether us having some of the highest levels of pricing (tickets, programmes, shirts etc.) in the Premier League and in Europe may be a touch overdone for a club who are mid table and win very little. A lack of sellouts and low commercial income relative to other teams in our division suggest there may be something in this. Not a black and white argument, more complexity than that, but I do think there is some opportunity to reassess prices.

 

Good debate and I see your point also, Sour Mash.

 

But that's the point, with our fanbase seemingly indifferent to whether we are 8th or 18th, they have based the pricing structure on not getting full stadiums, but maximising the money out of say 30,000. Selling 30,000 at 30 a ticket makes the club 2 million more than 32,000 at 25 a ticket over a season.

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You might get more money per game from 25,000 people at £40 instead of 32,000 at £30 but in the wider picture it reduces loyalty and makes it harder to sell the PL as the most desirable fantastic league in the world to places like India and China when the grounds are clearly partly empty.

 

I don't disagree, but it's about supply and demand, and the factvthat by reducing prices you can't guarantee people would come back. If I was to pay 27 instead of 32 per game it would not make any difference to me and whether I attended.

Edited by Unbelievable Jeff

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Not a big place though Dortmund - as % of population they have a great take up (average 80,000 attendance, 500k or so people in Dortmund), higher than most. Their own management recognise that charging higher prices would substantially reduce crowds. As for selling best players every year - isn't that our model... :)

 

Yes, but shouldn't be for a club of Dortmund size and stature. Bayern don't have the same structure and they don't suffer from a lack of fans (perhaps due to the size of Munich and smaller ground). But the biggest thing about Dortmund, and this is the thing, is that their tickets aren't actually THAT cheap. They have very few that are cheap and most go for around the 45 to 50 euro price, even for games against, for example, Hannover. Look on their website to confirm. €47.20 for behind the goal, midway up.

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You might get more money per game from 25,000 people at £40 instead of 32,000 at £30 but in the wider picture it reduces loyalty and makes it harder to sell the PL as the most desirable fantastic league in the world to places like India and China when the grounds are clearly partly empty.
But that's not really up for debate here, there aren't any examples of that being the case. Saints seem to be finding it harder to sell tickets for the cheaper games at the moment and our more expensive seats sell quicker than our cheapest.

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Yes, but shouldn't be for a club of Dortmund size and stature. Bayern don't have the same structure and they don't suffer from a lack of fans (perhaps due to the size of Munich and smaller ground). But the biggest thing about Dortmund, and this is the thing, is that their tickets aren't actually THAT cheap. They have very few that are cheap and most go for around the 45 to 50 euro price, even for games against, for example, Hannover. Look on their website to confirm. €47.20 for behind the goal, midway up.

Those who are lucky enough to get a season ticket on the Yellow Wall, which is 100% terracing, will benefit from ludicrously cheap prices, but as you rightly say, they claw that money back with the prices elsewhere in the ground, as well as the culture over there being significantly different in terms of merchandise purchasing - pretty much everyone has a replica shirt, scarf, hat, etc, whereas that's clearly not the case over here. Every Bundesliga club earns far more in commercial revenue than they do through the turnstiles.

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Not saying the wholesale pricing structure is wrong, am merely questioning whether us having some of the highest levels of pricing (tickets, programmes, shirts etc.) in the Premier League and in Europe may be a touch overdone for a club who are mid table and win very little. A lack of sellouts and low commercial income relative to other teams in our division suggest there may be something in this. Not a black and white argument, more complexity than that, but I do think there is some opportunity to reassess prices.

 

Good debate and I see your point also, Sour Mash.

But you are saying wholesale pricing strategy is wrong - tickets, programmes and shirts - they're the three things that fans shell out on and I'm sure that they might need to tweak the odd thing here or there, but they'd have put a lot of work in to getting the overall formula right.

 

And our match ticket prices are the norm for the Premier League in most cases, as are our shirts (more expensive abroad) and the programmes have only gone up this season (prior to that we had a problem with commercial income).

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Those who are lucky enough to get a season ticket on the Yellow Wall, which is 100% terracing, will benefit from ludicrously cheap prices, but as you rightly say, they claw that money back with the prices elsewhere in the ground, as well as the culture over there being significantly different in terms of merchandise purchasing - pretty much everyone has a replica shirt, scarf, hat, etc, whereas that's clearly not the case over here. Every Bundesliga club earns far more in commercial revenue than they do through the turnstiles.

 

Exactly. You read all these sycophantic messages pining for "the German way" without even knowing what it is. This is what happens when people blindly listen to the British press, who we all know will fit the figures and facts to suit whichever agenda they have.

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League Cup games are sensibly priced thankfully. Clubs know that without realistic prices, many people will not bother. If only that were case with league matches..

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west ham have a £20 match day ticket? i'm assuming this if for under 12's or something?............. i was going to make a joke about watching the fat sam type of football only being worth £20!

 

our fans aren't getting a very good deal at all, but if you have a smaller fan base and want good players and facilities, what choice do they have other than to pass that cost on to the fans?

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At £32.00, the cost of the cheapest match-day ticket at Southampton has increased by £9.00 since 2011.

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I was in the West Ham end last year and it was around £55. Rip off. Anyways, football is overpriced just like everything else is these days so quite pointless making a big deal about it

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I was in the West Ham end last year and it was around £55. Rip off. Anyways, football is overpriced just like everything else is these days so quite pointless making a big deal about it

 

I have some sympathy with you but thats a massive generalisation.

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I was in the West Ham end last year and it was around £55. Rip off. Anyways, football is overpriced just like everything else is these days so quite pointless making a big deal about it

 

They had ads on the screen when we were there for the home game with Liverpool. Kids tickets were "from £32".

 

Probably still sold out.

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People should go watch the NFL, then you'd find out about expensive tickets.

 

But the games go on for hours and to be fair, they have to provide bigger seats. They couldn't get away with those tiny little plastic things we offer.

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At £32.00, the cost of the cheapest match-day ticket at Southampton has increased by £9.00 since 2011.

Again, there's no context to that specific statistic. In the first half of 2011, we were playing in the third tier. An increase from £23 to £32 between League One and the Premier League doesn't seem like a particularly big deal to me.

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No, but Stoke and that part of Brum are much poorer.

 

The clubs don't just guess the prices, they use complex algorithms to work out the amount to maximise revenues.

 

Child poverty stats

http://www.endchildpoverty.org.uk/images/ecp/South%20East_LA%20and%20ward%20data.xlsx

 

http://www.endchildpoverty.org.uk/images/ecp/West%20Midlands_LA%20and%20ward%20data.xlsx

 

http://www.endchildpoverty.org.uk/why-end-child-poverty/poverty-in-your-area

 

Not much in it. Southampton higher than Portsmouth

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Soton is hardly a wealthy city!

 

Baggies and Stoke are well aware of future fans, something our club appears oblivious to.

 

I think this is one thing that does concern me. There's nothing like the atmosphere of a live match with a decent crowd to get someone hooked and then keep them going to reinforce the habit. I went to Soton U in the 70s and could afford a ticket - it used to be something like the cost of 3 or 4 drinks in the union bar - so the cost of football has far outstripped inflation, or the ability of lower incomes to afford it. The only reason I can still afford one is my low costs now I'm semi-retired, but it takes an awfully big chunk out of my income.

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Again, there's no context to that specific statistic. In the first half of 2011, we were playing in the third tier. An increase from £23 to £32 between League One and the Premier League doesn't seem like a particularly big deal to me.

 

And yet this forum is STILL the same price as 2011.

 

Bargain.

Edited by Unbelievable Jeff

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Is that taking into account the catchment areas for the teams, or just the city limits? The point is our fanbase is on average more wealthy than those two clubs.

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I think this is one thing that does concern me. There's nothing like the atmosphere of a live match with a decent crowd to get someone hooked and then keep them going to reinforce the habit. I went to Soton U in the 70s and could afford a ticket - it used to be something like the cost of 3 or 4 drinks in the union bar - so the cost of football has far outstripped inflation, or the ability of lower incomes to afford it. The only reason I can still afford one is my low costs now I'm semi-retired, but it takes an awfully big chunk out of my income.

 

Thats it at bottom line. The cost of a match ticket is more than my weekly gas, electric and water bills combined (for a 4 bed house). Thats a total reversal of what it would have been 20 years ago.

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Thats it at bottom line. The cost of a match ticket is more than my weekly gas, electric and water bills combined (for a 4 bed house). Thats a total reversal of what it would have been 20 years ago.

 

I am sure going to concerts, going to watch other sporting events etc are too though. The price of entertainment in general has risen substantially anyway.

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The City of Southampton is far from an affluent area. Just because posh people in Winchester, the New Forest, Dorset etc can afford a jolly nice day out at their nearest Premier League experience, does not detract that Football is ingrained in the cultural heritage of our City, the team are representing the City of Southampton and I find it pretty repulsive that people are content that young kids from families in any of the dozens of Council Estates across our City are priced out of going and instead growing up watching it on the TV (the same TV that shows endless matches involving the big sides, making the nippers more likely to support them rather than their home City club).

 

This isn't faux anger by the way, it's real anger, anger at the apathy shown by football fans in general. Tribalism and partisan support of their own club makes this a really hard issue to support. When City had a low gate against Roma a few weeks ago, most of the comments in the Guardian/ Times/ Telegraph comment's sections were from gloating fans of Liverpool, United, Chelsea etc mocking their gate. Hardly any offering any solidarity and supporting the City fans saying £38 is a lot of money mid week for a largely working class support.

 

Liverpool's Spirit of Shankly group are doing great work to highlight the shocking prices we are being fleeced. I don't like the Club, the City or their greedy, mercenary ex Saints players, however I'd stand shoulder to shoulder to them on this matter. Some things are more important than this week's/ season's result/ league finish. Having a legacy our kids and their mates, no matter their economic situation, can be part of should be a part of should be a real priority.

 

Amen

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But you are saying wholesale pricing strategy is wrong - tickets, programmes and shirts - they're the three things that fans shell out on and I'm sure that they might need to tweak the odd thing here or there, but they'd have put a lot of work in to getting the overall formula right.

 

And our match ticket prices are the norm for the Premier League in most cases, as are our shirts (more expensive abroad) and the programmes have only gone up this season (prior to that we had a problem with commercial income).

 

That's your opinion and you are entitled to it - in reality, neither of us know as we can only hypothesise on price elasticity of demand regarding ticket prices etc. - I think moderately lower ticket prices would be offset by moderately higher crowds, you possibly don't. Let's agree to disagree, as I said before, I can see your point or view.

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That's your opinion and you are entitled to it - in reality, neither of us know as we can only hypothesise on price elasticity of demand regarding ticket prices etc. - I think moderately lower ticket prices would be offset by moderately higher crowds, you possibly don't. Let's agree to disagree, as I said before, I can see your point or view.
Whats my opinion? That those in-charge of Premier League pricing know more about what they're doing than you in the main?

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Whats my opinion? That those in-charge of Premier League pricing know more about what they're doing than you in the main?

 

So you couldn't care less how high they go as long as the strategists have worked it out?

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That's your opinion and you are entitled to it - in reality, neither of us know as we can only hypothesise on price elasticity of demand regarding ticket prices etc. - I think moderately lower ticket prices would be offset by moderately higher crowds, you possibly don't. Let's agree to disagree, as I said before, I can see your point or view.

 

The point is lower prices are on offer for lower opponent games, yet we don't sell those out...but the higher price games we do. Go figure.

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