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Brexit - Enter at Your Own Risk

Saints Web Definitely Not Official Second Referendum  

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  1. 1. Saints Web Definitely Not Official Second Referendum

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Good news in the past few days about our intentions post-Brexit from 1st February. Sajid Javid stating that the UK planned to diverge from EU rules has caused alarm bells to ring in Brussels, particularly from Merkel. What a refreshing change Javid is to Spreadsheet Phil Hammond. Thank God that the likes of him are no longer in Government.

What about in the UK ?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7902175/Businesses-warn-price-rises-Brexit-Sajid-Javid-says-UK-NOT-align-EU-regs.html

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Your counterparts in the EU also consider it cheap bluster, Gavyn, based on the incompetence of our negotiations under May and Robbins. Very soon, they are going to have to wake up to reality, that not only finally do we have people with a spine negotiating for us, but also that following Boris' stonking majority, we now have the whip hand in those negotiations. The EU is petrified that we will become a major competitor on their doorstep, so naturally they will try to hamstring us into not having a competitive advantage by diverging from any of their rules and regulations that we consider to be petty bureaucracy.

 

I'm afraid that you have the cheap bluster fooling nobody the wrong way about, Gavyn. It's coming from the EU, telling us that there isn't time, this or that must be on the table, we cannot change or cancel any of their rules, etc. If there isn't enough time for a FTA by the end of December 2020, we are out without one on WTO. We are leaving the SM and the CU with divergence from their rules and regulations, therefore something like Canada + will be fine, or we will have made extensive preparations for no deal in these coming months.

 

By "British business" being freaked out, you mean big business, multinational companies who benefited from the EU cartel and their bureaucracy that stifled competition from smaller businesses, rather than all British businesses. Of course, many UK businesses will thrive once we have left the EU. As for your cheap jibe that a negotiating stance is more effective applied to small businesses rather than it is to negotiations between nations, many of the principles and psychology are common to both, and I cannot believe that you would be so stupid as to not recognise that. In particular, we considerably weakened our negotiating hand by having our parliament vote into law that we could not accept no deal, thus inviting a bad deal. Of course, no business equally should negotiate on the basis that they are not prepared to walk away from a bad deal, whether they are selling garden gnomes, cars, or defence weaponry.

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Your counterparts in the EU also consider it cheap bluster, Gavyn, based on the incompetence of our negotiations under May and Robbins. Very soon, they are going to have to wake up to reality, that not only finally do we have people with a spine negotiating for us, but also that following Boris' stonking majority, we now have the whip hand in those negotiations. The EU is petrified that we will become a major competitor on their doorstep, so naturally they will try to hamstring us into not having a competitive advantage by diverging from any of their rules and regulations that we consider to be petty bureaucracy.

 

I'm afraid that you have the cheap bluster fooling nobody the wrong way about, Gavyn. It's coming from the EU, telling us that there isn't time, this or that must be on the table, we cannot change or cancel any of their rules, etc. If there isn't enough time for a FTA by the end of December 2020, we are out without one on WTO. We are leaving the SM and the CU with divergence from their rules and regulations, therefore something like Canada + will be fine, or we will have made extensive preparations for no deal in these coming months.

 

By "British business" being freaked out, you mean big business, multinational companies who benefited from the EU cartel and their bureaucracy that stifled competition from smaller businesses, rather than all British businesses. Of course, many UK businesses will thrive once we have left the EU. As for your cheap jibe that a negotiating stance is more effective applied to small businesses rather than it is to negotiations between nations, many of the principles and psychology are common to both, and I cannot believe that you would be so stupid as to not recognise that. In particular, we considerably weakened our negotiating hand by having our parliament vote into law that we could not accept no deal, thus inviting a bad deal. Of course, no business equally should negotiate on the basis that they are not prepared to walk away from a bad deal, whether they are selling garden gnomes, cars, or defence weaponry.

 

Everything you said would come to pass in the last three years has failed to materialise; still I admire your dour persistence and pluckiness pal.

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Everything you said would come to pass in the last three years has failed to materialise; still I admire your dour persistence and pluckiness pal.

 

Because of the remoaner establishment doing their best to thwart Brexit these past three years, the electorate gave the two fingers vertical salute to them and voted for Boris and the pro-Brexit Tory party, giving them the stonking majority they needed to finally get it done. That majority means that there is absolutely nothing that you remoaners can now do to prevent it, although I appreciate that you will continue to bleat on about what a bad dream it has all been for you.

 

As I've said many times before, I've waited for this since 1992, so I'm not bothered about three years, especially because as the result of that delay it brought about the massive increase in the pro-Brexit strength of the Tory Party government. :p

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Because of the remoaner establishment doing their best to thwart Brexit these past three years, the electorate gave the two fingers vertical salute to them and voted for Boris and the pro-Brexit Tory party, giving them the stonking majority they needed to finally get it done. That majority means that there is absolutely nothing that you remoaners can now do to prevent it, although I appreciate that you will continue to bleat on about what a bad dream it has all been for you.

 

As I've said many times before, I've waited for this since 1992, so I'm not bothered about three years, especially because as the result of that delay it brought about the massive increase in the pro-Brexit strength of the Tory Party government. :p

 

Get it done by erecting a border in our own country just to safeguard the EU’s single market. That’s very generous of us :lol: You’re prepared to swallow anything provided it’s not your own pride. What happened to the UK holding all the cards, being able to dictate terms and secure the benefits of membership without the obligations and the negotiations being a cakewalk? You and your deluded sense of entitlement and exceptionalism have been made to look foolish over the past three years and the real fun and games haven’t even started yet.

Edited by shurlock

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the real fun and games haven’t even started yet.

 

I know, I can't wait. May and Robbins, Bercow, Benn, Letwin, Hammond, Gauke, Soubry and other remoaners made the whole country look foolish. They're all history, jobless or neutered now, so onwards and upwards, eh, Gavyn? :D

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Fun and games:

The UK economy will outpace the struggling eurozone in the first two years after Brexit, the International Monetary Fund (IMF) has predicted for the first time. Britain also outpaced the monetary union in 2019, giving it three straight years of faster growth, according to the IMF's latest forecasts. The fund slashed growth across the eurozone, warning that a weaker German recovery and a slowdown in Spain will weigh on the region’s economy this year.

Shortages of food and medicine, crops rotting in the fields, no Romanian gypsies left to wash posh folks cars, empty supermarkets, pets interned in Calais, stockpiling, prepping, John Cleese emigrating. So that was all just b0ll0x after all. And to think there were idiots that fell for it.

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Fun and games 2:

More than 1000 banks, asset managers, payments firms and insurers from the European Union are planning to open offices in post-Brexit Britain so they can continue to serve UK clients. The new offices would help financial firms counter the loss of business as unrestricted two-way access between the UK and EU comes to an end in December following a Brexit transition period. By October last year 1,441 EU-based firms had applied to the Financial Conduct Authority (FCA) for temporary permissions to operate in the UK after Brexit, according to figures obtained via a Freedom of Information request from regulatory consultancy Bovill. Over 1,000 of these firms do not currently have an office in the UK, suggesting they intend to establish their first office after the UK’s departure from the EU on 31 January.

 

Fun and games 3:

 

UK shrugs off Brexit uncertainty with backing of global CEOs

 

Government hopes of an economic boost from an easing of Brexit uncertainty have been boosted by a poll showing that the UK is increasingly attractive to global businesses searching for growth and investment opportunities. The poll of almost 1,600 chief executives, by the consultancy and accounting firm PwC, found that at a time of growing nervousness the UK’s reputation for stability made it the fourth most important target for companies looking for markets. PWC said the rebound in the UK’s attractiveness had been particularly marked among German, French and Italian chief executives and had returned to levels last seen in 2015, the year before the EU referendum.

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The cheap bluster might work for your eBay garden gnome business Les. But it’s fooling nobody in Europe and only succeeding in freaking out UK industry.

 

#fûckbusiness

Shurlock,do you think it is now time for unity and go for the best deal for our nation? That the remainers ( I was strongly one of the group) forget the 'what if' but perhaps change to 'lets move on'. I know you want what is best for our country, the same as the majority who live here and so if the country actually went forward united, the EU may realise that they may just have to get real and negotiate properly. It is obviously a nonsense the French or another try to cherry pick what they want sorted before negotiation. Whilst we have division they can use this to weaken us in the negotiation.

If you are in a negotiation you will full well know that if one of the opposition is a tad flaky you play on that person. If they are solid it is not so easy to know where to set your play.

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Only ten days and it's all over. :)

Glad we can put all that nonesense behind us and we won't hear a word about it ever again.

Hold tight though, once Boris has agreed everything and got Brexit done by next week as he promised on numerous occasions, that dam of investment is splitting open and flooding the country with billions of pounds.

We are going to be knee-deep in cash, it's going to be a right old mess.

:scared:

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Fun and games:

 

Shortages of food and medicine, crops rotting in the fields, no Romanian gypsies left to wash posh folks cars, empty supermarkets, pets interned in Calais, stockpiling, prepping, John Cleese emigrating. So that was all just b0ll0x after all. And to think there were idiots that fell for it.

 

Why not wait until next year, when we have finally left and are clear about the circumstances, before going off half-cocked.

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Why not wait until next year, when we have finally left and are clear about the circumstances, before going off half-cocked.

 

What? You are expecting Guided Missile to use some judgement and common sense before posting? I don't think that you have been paying attention on this thread.

 

There is about as much chance of that happening as a concise, humourous comment from Les.

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What? You are expecting Guided Missile to use some judgement and common sense before posting? I don't think that you have been paying attention on this thread.

 

There is about as much chance of that happening as a concise, humourous comment from Les.

 

Did Gavyn tell you what to post whilst he is away in Davos? :lol:

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Did Gavyn tell you what to post whilst he is away in Davos? :lol:

 

Do they not have Internet access in Switzerland ?

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Do they not have Internet access in Switzerland ?

 

They don't have internet where Les goes on "business" with his garden gnomes. That is why periodically he goes silent on this thread and is nothing to do with him not bring able to answer questions posed to him by Shurlock.

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They don't have internet where Les goes on "business" with his garden gnomes. That is why periodically he goes silent on this thread and is nothing to do with him not bring able to answer questions posed to him by Shurlock.
whats the garden gnomes thing about????

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whats the garden gnomes thing about????

 

It's Gavyn's little joke, but gullible Tamesaint believes it to be true. He's a fine one to mock, running his whelk stall. ;)

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They don't have internet where Les goes on "business" with his garden gnomes. That is why periodically he goes silent on this thread and is nothing to do with him not bring able to answer questions posed to him by Shurlock.

 

Tut, tut. Who would have thought our resident spelling bee would make such a mistake. To be fair, the wrong word is spelt correctly but I guess that's more by chance than design.

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The commons has now overturned all five of the amendments the Lords attempted to place on the Withdrawal Agreement Bill. Now let's see if they wish to continue with the Parliamentary ping-pong, or whether they will realise that it is a futile gesture.

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Taking back control to get pushed around by the US. Some special relationship - that’s for the birds and chumps :lol:

We've being doing that since the cold war, our only "power" in the world is that we are somehow still a member of the UN permanent security council, which given that virtually all our industries are foreign owned and our remaining armed forces would struggle to defend our six yard box counts for very little. For the govt to say we can't apply our tax laws properly because it would upset Trump and his corrupt cronies shows how far this country has declined, and indicates a very sinister and cynical nature of the world today.

At least we have football to distract us from such trivialities....

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It's Gavyn's little joke, but gullible Tamesaint believes it to be true. He's a fine one to mock, running his whelk stall. ;)
It wouldn't matter to me if you sold gnomes for a living. Any legal business is honourable IMO. Its tough running a business in this climate, especially retailing. Hats off to all our fellow self employed businesses

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It wouldn't matter to me if you sold gnomes for a living. Any legal business is honourable IMO. Its tough running a business in this climate, especially retailing. Hats off to all our fellow self employed businesses

 

I agree, small businesses are the backbone of our economy, so it says a lot about Gavyn that he is so disparagingly contemptuous about them. I read an interesting article this morning and this bit in particular reminded me very much of our Gavyn:-

 

People who want to leave the EU seem on the whole to have a passable understanding of why the UK applied to join it in the 1960s and 1970s, and why some still want us to stay in it today. They recognise their opponents’ arguments as rational, even if fallible. On the other hand folks who want to stay in the EU seem unable to engage in debate on the same level.

 

The Remain commentariat (media, interested professionals, politicians, multinational businesses and other vested interests) when faced with arguments for leaving, do not seek to meet or rebut them, but instead take refuge in personal disdain and abuse. When they are not deriding “swivel-eyed headbangers” or even (to quote a former Prime Minister) “fruitcakes, loonies and closet racists”, they are denouncing the majority of voters as “extremists”. Their strategy is apparently to avoid any possibility of serious argument getting on its feet and the strategy reaches a sort of culmination in the claim that when the majority voted to Leave, that fact alone demonstrates that they did not understand the issues, for which reason alone their votes ought to be discounted. That strategy makes reasoned debate impossible because one side rules out reason a priori.

 

I suspect that to a large extent, this arrogance has led to a feeling among the electorate of us against them, the people against the establishment liberal elite. Their arrogance and threats of project fear helped the leave vote to win the referendum. Their subsequent shenanigans over the past three and a half years since, have ultimately culminated in a huge majority for the main political party pledged to deliver Brexit. The remoaners are now a busted flush, powerless to change the outcome of events that were brought about partly by their own doing. It must be extremely irksome to them that they have been outmanoeuvred by those that they consider to be their inferiors. :lol:

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I agree, small businesses are the backbone of our economy,

 

I see.

 

So when you claimed that I ran a whelk stall , you were in fact complimenting me.

 

Thanks for the compliment but I don't need those from people like you.

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The Withdrawal Agreement Bill has been granted Royal Assent. That was all plain sailing. A week tomorrow at 11pm and we're out. How is everybody on here planning to celebrate our freedom?

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punters who could be arsed to vote voted out!! we've been the ancient mariner for three years now get it done, then we will find out just how much **** we are in, or not.

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The Withdrawal Agreement Bill has been granted Royal Assent. That was all plain sailing. A week tomorrow at 11pm and we're out. How is everybody on here planning to celebrate our freedom?

 

By raising the European Union flag, high and proud.

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By raising the European Union flag, high and proud.

 

Don't reply to him. He is trolling now and is getting off on each reply sent to him.

 

Let him continue his little ****fest by himself.

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“Government is failing to honour centuries-old convention by blocking my peerage.” John Bercow in tomorrow’s Times

 

 

‘I am not in the business of invoking precedent, nor am I under any obligation to do so. If we were guided only by precedent, nothing would ever change.’ John Bercow during Brexit debate prior to election.

 

 

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Don't reply to him. He is trolling now and is getting off on each reply sent to him.

 

Let him continue his little ****fest by himself.

Unfortunately I am going to have to spend some time next week with my son's father-in-law. He is a fervent Brexit tw_at, and is proudly telling everybody he finds within earshot about the bunting he is going to put up. ( He is one of the most miserable and boring people I have ever met, and provides the template for my visualisation of a few posters on here ).

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Unfortunately I am going to have to spend some time next week with my son's father-in-law. He is a fervent Brexit tw_at, and is proudly telling everybody he finds within earshot about the bunting he is going to put up. ( He is one of the most miserable and boring people I have ever met, and provides the template for my visualisation of a few posters on here ).

 

I feel your pain. Fortunately I am out of the country until 2 February so will hopefully miss next week's Gammon party.

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Unfortunately I am going to have to spend some time next week with my son's father-in-law. He is a fervent Brexit tw_at, and is proudly telling everybody he finds within earshot about the bunting he is going to put up. ( He is one of the most miserable and boring people I have ever met, and provides the template for my visualisation of a few posters on here ).

 

Can you not take your European Union flag with you?

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Can you not take your European Union flag with you?

My wife says we should be playing the "Ode to Joy" on a loop, and spend the day conversing in French and German.

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The Withdrawal Agreement Bill has been granted Royal Assent. That was all plain sailing. A week tomorrow at 11pm and we're out. How is everybody on here planning to celebrate our freedom?

 

Umm, nothing? Because I am neither impotent nor a virgin.

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https://order-order.com/2020/01/23/european-parliament-trade-committee-boss-uk-eu-fta-can-completed-year/

 

It appears that a trade deal with the EU before the end of December is a viable possibility after all, as could a trade deal with Japan. Japan was cool on the idea of a trade deal a few months ago, but now they are keen to do a deal as quickly as possible, potentially by the Autumn. What a difference it makes having a government with a stonking great majority and the clarity of purpose that it brings to negotiations.

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https://order-order.com/2020/01/23/european-parliament-trade-committee-boss-uk-eu-fta-can-completed-year/

 

It appears that a trade deal with the EU before the end of December is a viable possibility after all, as could a trade deal with Japan. Japan was cool on the idea of a trade deal a few months ago, but now they are keen to do a deal as quickly as possible, potentially by the Autumn. What a difference it makes having a government with a stonking great majority and the clarity of purpose that it brings to negotiations.

 

Of course, a bare-bones FTA is available if the UK signs up to EU demands on fishing and a level playing field. Have you been following the news? Obviously not.

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Of course, a bare-bones FTA is available if the UK signs up to EU demands on fishing and a level playing field. Have you been following the news? Obviously not.

 

How was Davos? I've been following it avidly, Gavyn, old China. What I've been reading of late tells me that fishing and the level playing field aren't on the table our end. The bare-bones trade deal was what was on offer under those circumstances. The EU sabre-rattling says that the closer the alignment, the better the deal, but if no SM, no CU, no ECJ, no alignment, no fisheries means a bare-bones deal or no deal, then I expect that we are quite content with that. The EU maintain that they will not give as good a deal to us as they did to Canada and S Korea. Are you gullible enough to believe everything they say as gospel?

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How was Davos? I've been following it avidly, Gavyn, old China. What I've been reading of late tells me that fishing and the level playing field aren't on the table our end. The bare-bones trade deal was what was on offer under those circumstances. The EU sabre-rattling says that the closer the alignment, the better the deal, but if no SM, no CU, no ECJ, no alignment, no fisheries means a bare-bones deal or no deal, then I expect that we are quite content with that. The EU maintain that they will not give as good a deal to us as they did to Canada and S Korea. Are you gullible enough to believe everything they say as gospel?

 

No Les - you’re getting confused again. It doesn’t mean a bare bones FTA (as in zero tariffs, zero quotas) or no deal. It means no deal.

Edited by shurlock

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No Les - you’re getting confused again. It doesn’t mean a bare bones deal or no deal. It means no deal.

 

I'm not confused at all, Gavyn, you are. It appears that you are stuck in some sort of time-warp whereby you haven't realised that May and Robbins are no longer in charge of our negotiations and that we are no longer still tied by Benn's Surrender Bill to accept any deal the EU offers us, no matter how bad it might be. If the EU believe that all they have to do is procrastinate until the end of July and expect us to ask for an extension to the WA, then they are in for a nasty shock. Ditto if they believe that we would not be prepared to leave on WTO terms if the deal they propose is not acceptable to us.

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I'm not confused at all, Gavyn, you are.

 

You would be better off spending the afternoon banging your head against a wall at home than try and engage in any sort of debate with our resident South African - not like those guys to accept anyone else's opinion on anything!

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You would be better off spending the afternoon banging your head against a wall at home than try and engage in any sort of debate with our resident South African - not like those guys to accept anyone else's opinion on anything!

 

I'm happy for him to provide a string of predictions as to how the Brexit thing will pan out, WSS. I expect to have a good laugh at him when he has egg all over his face when it doesn't come to pass, just as I expect that he was probably for us joining the Eurozone too. Also just as we will not be entering into a Norway style deal with the EU as forecast by Buctootim, who bet £50 on it three plus years ago. Where has he disappeared to lately?

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I'm happy for him to provide a string of predictions as to how the Brexit thing will pan out, WSS. I expect to have a good laugh at him when he has egg all over his face when it doesn't come to pass, just as I expect that he was probably for us joining the Eurozone too. Also just as we will not be entering into a Norway style deal with the EU as forecast by Buctootim, who bet £50 on it three plus years ago. Where has he disappeared to lately?

 

Where’s all the fighting talk about securing the exact same benefits of membership without the obligations? Or at least some significant asymmetry in favour of the UK given it’s indispensability to the EU. All that leverage and all that the UK can secure is a threadbare zero tariff zero quota FTA if it sticks to its red lines. Sounds like you’ve finally woken up and realised that divergence comes with matching costs. There is no cake. It’s taken an embarrassingly long time which reflects poorly on your judgement but better late than never Les.

Edited by shurlock

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Where’s all the fighting talk about securing the exact same benefits of membership without the obligations? Or at least some significant asymmetry in favour of the UK given it’s indispensability to the EU. All that leverage and all that the UK can secure is a threadbare zero tariff zero quota FTA if it sticks to its red lines. Sounds like you’ve finally woken up and realised that divergence comes with matching costs. There is no cake. It’s taken an embarrassingly long time which reflects poorly on your judgement but better late than never Les.

 

I'm entirely content with the state of play at the moment, Gavyn. We're out of the EU at 11pm next Friday, so I'll probably have a bit of a hangover next Saturday from an excess of bubbly during celebrations. You've come out with a load of project fear drivel ever since before the referendum and very little of it has come to pass, so excuse me if I ignore a lot of what you will be coming out with in the next few months. I'm on the right side of history with the Brexiteers on the question of terminating our membership of the EU, you remoaners aren't, so again, it's probably not a very astute position for you to take on other peoples' judgement, Gavyn. When you talk about a threadbare zero tariff, zero quota FTA, you mean one that allows us to control our immigration, fix up our own trade deals around the world, stop having to pay billions into the EU coffers, the cessation of our laws being subjugated to EU laws, regaining control of our own coastal waters? Only that, eh, Gavyn? It looks like a pretty mouthwatering cake to me. :lol:

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The Withdrawal Agreement Bill has been granted Royal Assent. That was all plain sailing. A week tomorrow at 11pm and we're out. How is everybody on here planning to celebrate our freedom?
You will not be surprised to hear that I, along with roughly half the population, won't be celebrating. Why would anyone celebrate a national disaster and the start of inflation, recession, the death of the NHS, breakup of the UK, worsening of living conditions and restriction of movement?

 

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