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  1. 1. Saints Web Definitely Not Official Second Referendum

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Honest appraisal please Brexiteers, is this going the way you hoped it would? Happy with the governments approach? Anything you regret or would change (please don’t just blame Theresa May).

Answers on a postcard. 

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2 minutes ago, Plastic said:

Honest appraisal please Brexiteers, is this going the way you hoped it would? Happy with the governments approach? Anything you regret or would change (please don’t just blame Theresa May).

Answers on a postcard. 

Blah blah blah "sclerotic EU", blah bah blah "FTA is fine by me",  blah blah blah "plundering our fisheries", blah blah blah "get out now and the whole thing will fall apart in 6 months", blah blah blah "cluless Barnier", blah blah blah "Independence Day".

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3 hours ago, badgerx16 said:

Blah blah blah "sclerotic EU", blah bah blah "FTA is fine by me",  blah blah blah "plundering our fisheries", blah blah blah "get out now and the whole thing will fall apart in 6 months", blah blah blah "cluless Barnier", blah blah blah "Independence Day".

 

3 hours ago, Plastic said:

Honest appraisal please Brexiteers, is this going the way you hoped it would? Happy with the governments approach? Anything you regret or would change (please don’t just blame Theresa May).

Answers on a postcard. 

Badger has answered quite a bit of it, Plastic, but I'll fill in the gaps from my point of view. May mainly gets the blame because of "the buck stops here" principle. As the PM, she was responsible for the way that the whole thing developed when she took over from Cameron after the referendum vote. Had she not out of naivety and weakness allowed the EU and Barnier to set the agenda and insisted instead that the FTA talks were held in tandem with the so-called divorce settlement, (as per the Article 50 legislation) then a lot of the problems we have now wouldn't have occurred. But she shares the blame for all that with the useless Ollie Robbins, and the remoaners in her Cabinet and in the House. That is all water under the bridge, as she and most of them are now either an irrelevance or no longer in the House. One can't blame the EU for wanting to make the terms for our leaving seem like a punishment, but clearly they have not acted in good faith as a result.

Otherwise, bringing things up to date, I am entirely happy with the way that things are going currently. As I have said before, whereas a Canada style FTA would be the best outcome, if the EU wish to cut off their noses to spite their faces by making that impossible because of their stupid intransigence over fisheries and the level playing field terms, then I am completely happy with WTO terms.

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4 hours ago, Plastic said:

Honest appraisal please Brexiteers, is this going the way you hoped it would? Happy with the governments approach? Anything you regret or would change (please don’t just blame Theresa May).

Answers on a postcard. 

After the childish remainer from Badger I’ll reply to a sensible question. 
 

Yep, happy with this Government’s approach. Not much more they could have done after being given a hospital pass by the previous one. Either us Brexitiers  was going to be shafted, or the Northern Irish,  there was no other way of securing a WD. I don’t believe for one minute that they’ll tear up the WD, but if they do, they do. Rather that than remaining shackled to a failing bloc. 
 

As for regrets, nope, we’re doing the right thing. Clearly we should be out by now, the main reason we’re not is because the Tory party picked that dreadful women. Michael Gove or Boris should have fought the leadership election when Cameron stepped down. Having a remainer in charge was the equivalent of labour negotiating Scottish independence, not the SNP. However, we can’t have regrets, had it gone smoothly we wouldn’t have had raging euro loons kicked out the party, The Tigger party, Bercow being denied a peerage and the glorious night in December when it finally dawned on remoaners that they’d taken a hell of a beating. Sweet sweet moment. 

Edited by Lord Duckhunter
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24 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Clearly we should be out by now, the main reason we’re not is because the Tory party picked that dreadful women. Michael Gove or Boris should have fought the leadership election when Cameron stepped down.

Wasn't that was the leadership contest that "Mr Get Brexit Done" Boris bottled out of? :lol:

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31 minutes ago, aintforever said:

Wasn't that was the leadership contest that "Mr Get Brexit Done" Boris bottled out of? :lol:

Your memory of events has faded somewhat. Gove stabbed Boris in the back, ruining both of their chances of leading the Party at that time. But as LD says, the Party and Brexit is much better for it, as events following on from the term of the incompetent May's Brexit negotiations meant that she and all the rest of the remoaner ultras were consigned to the dustbin of history and Boris received the massive electoral mandate to get Brexit done. 

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Thanks for your replies. I think if I was in your shoes I would feel the Conservative party had utterly failed me - Cameron bails as soon as the results are in, May dithered and achieved nothing, Boris (for all his bluster) seems only to have succeeded in entrenching both sides of the argument. Just my view as an outsider looking in of course, I'm not up to speed on all elements.

Edited by Plastic
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21 minutes ago, Wes Tender said:

Your memory of events has faded somewhat. Gove stabbed Boris in the back, ruining both of their chances of leading the Party at that time. But as LD says, the Party and Brexit is much better for it, as events following on from the term of the incompetent May's Brexit negotiations meant that she and all the rest of the remoaner ultras were consigned to the dustbin of history and Boris received the massive electoral mandate to get Brexit done. 

My memory hasn't faded, I wasn't really that interested in the Tory leadership nonsense at the time, just thought it was odd he wasn't made leader. He was the logical choice as he was the one going round in the bus with the big lie on it.

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2 hours ago, Plastic said:

Thanks for your replies. I think if I was in your shoes I would feel the Conservative party had utterly failed me - Cameron bails as soon as the results are in, May dithered and achieved nothing, Boris (for all his bluster) seems only to have succeeded in entrenching both sides of the argument. Just my view as an outsider looking in of course, I'm not up to speed on all elements.

I was disappointed that Cameron resigned following the referendum result, but he had pretty well cooked his own goose because of the active role he had played in the campaign. Had he declared his preference, but then stated that he would sit on the sidelines during the debates and would then fully accept the result, he could have remained as PM and handled the negotiations himself. Whether he would have allowed the EU to then set the negotiation agenda in the crassly stupid way that the incompetent May did, or whether he would have allowed the imbalance favouring the remoaners in his Cabinet is a moot point. 

May was just a total disaster, the worst Prime Minister of modern times, but thankfully her incompetence resulted eventually in the stonking Boris majority and the cleansing of most of the remoaner ultras in the Party and the House

It was a certainty that the referendum vote result would mean an entrenchment of both sides of the argument. The majority of voters and indeed members of the political parties are either for Brexit or against  it. It is the biggest and most contentious issue in modern times, so no surprise there that people are either on one side or the other. 

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2 hours ago, Plastic said:

Thanks for your replies. I think if I was in your shoes I would feel the Conservative party had utterly failed me - Cameron bails as soon as the results are in, May dithered and achieved nothing, Boris (for all his bluster) seems only to have succeeded in entrenching both sides of the argument. Just my view as an outsider looking in of course, I'm not up to speed on all elements.

I’m not a Tory, so I agree with you, the Tory party has utterly failed he people of this country, their only saving grace is Labour would be even worse . But it goes back way further than Cameron. Grocer Heath, Major & May were completely useless & Cameron only slightly better. Apart from The Great Lady, the country has been run by a great pink soft arsed blob for half a century. They’re all fucking Blairettes 

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I voted leave and would again. Yes we have made many mistakes since then but the covid 19 breakout has scuppered all of their plans. A vast amount of money has been splashed out on furlough, equipment, free food  and scientific research as well as many other things since the outbreak. It feels as though we are heading into a second lockdown now because the idiots fail to understand how serious things are and ignore all rules about protecting ourselves.

Playing in a new never before seen state of affair means that a new way of living is forced upon us. Even the brainiest people working at finding a way forward can't agree on how to proceed. There many reasons to feel bitter and twisted but not all is down to our government. 

The fact as I see it is that the EU will fight to keep as much of our rightful property as they can. I am married to a French national and have seen how stupid the farm rules amongst others are. Brexit can be a blessing if we embrace it. Trade deals are needed more by the EU than by us as they sell much more to us than we do to them. We have the chance to begin a new trade agreement with them under our terms rather than theirs. We also have possible trade deals now that we were stopped from getting by the EU.

Yes it will cause friction when we leave if with no deal agreed but eventually things will work out. It has to as both sides need each other more than they realise.

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1 hour ago, SFC Forever said:

I voted leave and would again. Yes we have made many mistakes since then but the covid 19 breakout has scuppered all of their plans. A vast amount of money has been splashed out on furlough, equipment, free food  and scientific research as well as many other things since the outbreak. It feels as though we are heading into a second lockdown now because the idiots fail to understand how serious things are and ignore all rules about protecting ourselves.

Playing in a new never before seen state of affair means that a new way of living is forced upon us. Even the brainiest people working at finding a way forward can't agree on how to proceed. There many reasons to feel bitter and twisted but not all is down to our government. 

The fact as I see it is that the EU will fight to keep as much of our rightful property as they can. I am married to a French national and have seen how stupid the farm rules amongst others are. Brexit can be a blessing if we embrace it. Trade deals are needed more by the EU than by us as they sell much more to us than we do to them. We have the chance to begin a new trade agreement with them under our terms rather than theirs. We also have possible trade deals now that we were stopped from getting by the EU.

Yes it will cause friction when we leave if with no deal agreed but eventually things will work out. It has to as both sides need each other more than they realise.

Won't be much of a blessing without a US trade deal. "a new never seen before state of affairs" - yep, our government haven't broken international laws in the last hundred or so years.

 

The US reaction should tell you that they value a trade deal with the EU much more than a trade deal with us. To me, brexit is a fantasy of idealists who don't live in today's world....some points are very good but it's the people you have to get into bed with to get it done that are the problem. If they get their way, the future won't be particularly bright for the UK at all.

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Margaret Thatcher, the "blessed lady" said:

"In the same way as Governments and individuals should be bound by law, so countries should be bound by treaties.

Britain does not renounce treaties. Indeed, to do so would damage our own integrity as well as international relations. "

 

She is probably turning in her grave at the way that this bunch of incompetents is now running the country. 

 

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8 hours ago, Hockey_saint said:

Won't be much of a blessing without a US trade deal. "a new never seen before state of affairs" - yep, our government haven't broken international laws in the last hundred or so years.

The US reaction should tell you that they value a trade deal with the EU much more than a trade deal with us. To me, brexit is a fantasy of idealists who don't live in today's world....some points are very good but it's the people you have to get into bed with to get it done that are the problem. If they get their way, the future won't be particularly bright for the UK at all.

Surely you're not basing whether we do a trade deal with the USA on mad Nancy Pelosi's utterings? It isn't the first time that she has chosen to shoot from the lip and believe that she has the right to speak on behalf of the USA. She said much the same sort of thing  year ago. She isn't bright enough even to realise that the legislation proposed in the Internal Market Bill is designed to  protect the Good Friday Agreement.

 

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Great news today with the announcement of a trade deal with Japan. I must crack open a bottle of Sake to celebrate.

Regarding these allegations that the UK would be breaking the terms of an international treaty with its Internal Market Bill, there is a very comprehensive article in Conservative Home today by Sir Bernard Jenkin disputing that the proposed alterations/clarifications to the WA will represent a breach of international law. All those parroting the knee-jerk reactions of the left wing media that we will be condemned as untrustworthy by the international community, will do well to read it in order to gain an insight to the reasoning behind the proposed changes.

it is also quite delicious to read that the Government's right to make these changes has been endorsed by the Supreme Court following the intervention of Soros protege Gina Miller earlier in the Brexit process over the triggering of Article 50.

In other news today, I am also highly amused by the vote of the Shetland Islands Council to pursue independence from Scotland. How can the Scots Nats make a case for their independence from us and then  deny it to the Shetland Islanders?

 

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25 minutes ago, Wes Tender said:

Great news today with the announcement of a trade deal with Japan. I must crack open a bottle of Sake to celebrate.

Regarding these allegations that the UK would be breaking the terms of an international treaty with its Internal Market Bill, there is a very comprehensive article in Conservative Home today by Sir Bernard Jenkin disputing that the proposed alterations/clarifications to the WA will represent a breach of international law. All those parroting the knee-jerk reactions of the left wing media that we will be condemned as untrustworthy by the international community, will do well to read it in order to gain an insight to the reasoning behind the proposed changes.

it is also quite delicious to read that the Government's right to make these changes has been endorsed by the Supreme Court following the intervention of Soros protege Gina Miller earlier in the Brexit process over the triggering of Article 50.

In other news today, I am also highly amused by the vote of the Shetland Islands Council to pursue independence from Scotland. How can the Scots Nats make a case for their independence from us and then  deny it to the Shetland Islanders?

 

Indeed, with Japan accounting for a whopping 2% of our trade, it'll add 0.07% to our GDP.

Out of the £15bn value of the deal, Japan gets 80%. Seems like a bargain.

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37 minutes ago, ecuk268 said:

Indeed, with Japan accounting for a whopping 2% of our trade, it'll add 0.07% to our GDP.

Out of the £15bn value of the deal, Japan gets 80%. Seems like a bargain.

Don't try to use facts on here.

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3 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

Don't try to use facts on here.

Many of the remoaner fraternity crowed that we wouldn't be able to gain one. It's a step in the direction of us possibly joining the Trans-Pacific Partnership one day, especially when we will also have trade agreements with Canada, Australia and New Zealand too.

Remoaners are only too happy to make comparisons with the amount of trade we do with the EU, but it is still in the mutual interests of both parties to have a FTA, so these deals will be additional to that. If we don't agree a FTA with them, then as well as throwing the £39 Billion so-called divorce settlement into question, a WTO tariff regime will  cost the EU billions of pounds of revenue into our coffers annually with the huge trade surplus trade in goods they have with us.

 

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14 hours ago, Hockey_saint said:

Won't be much of a blessing without a US trade deal. "a new never seen before state of affairs" - yep, our government haven't broken international laws in the last hundred or so years.

 

The US reaction should tell you that they value a trade deal with the EU much more than a trade deal with us. To me, brexit is a fantasy of idealists who don't live in today's world....some points are very good but it's the people you have to get into bed with to get it done that are the problem. If they get their way, the future won't be particularly bright for the UK at all.

What many don't understand or refuse to accept, is that we voted for the chance to decide our own destiny. Being told what we can and can't do is foreign to my beliefs and many others. Trade is something that every country in the world needs. No longer staying under EU rules means that we can go to seek new trade deals elsewhere. It does not mean we have to lose trading with the EU.

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18 minutes ago, SFC Forever said:

What many don't understand or refuse to accept, is that we voted for the chance to decide our own destiny. Being told what we can and can't do is foreign to my beliefs and many others. Trade is something that every country in the world needs. No longer staying under EU rules means that we can go to seek new trade deals elsewhere. It does not mean we have to lose trading with the EU.

Two things.

1. No-one is going to give you a new deal if you aren't trusted to stick to what you agreed to only a year previously

2. It's nothing to do with being told what we can and can;t do. The problem is we still havent moved on from cake and eat it. Trade deals are give and take. You want something I have then you have to give something you have and I want. 

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39 minutes ago, Wes Tender said:

Many of the remoaner fraternity crowed that we wouldn't be able to gain one. It's a step in the direction of us possibly joining the Trans-Pacific Partnership one day, especially when we will also have trade agreements with Canada, Australia and New Zealand too.

Remoaners are only too happy to make comparisons with the amount of trade we do with the EU, but it is still in the mutual interests of both parties to have a FTA, so these deals will be additional to that. If we don't agree a FTA with them, then as well as throwing the £39 Billion so-called divorce settlement into question, a WTO tariff regime will  cost the EU billions of pounds of revenue into our coffers annually with the huge trade surplus trade in goods they have with us.

 

It's still all happening in your head and nowhere else.  

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21 minutes ago, SFC Forever said:

What many don't understand or refuse to accept, is that we voted for the chance to decide our own destiny. Being told what we can and can't do is foreign to my beliefs and many others. Trade is something that every country in the world needs. No longer staying under EU rules means that we can go to seek new trade deals elsewhere. It does not mean we have to lose trading with the EU.

In saying this you have to accept that in negotiating on our own, with far less trade on offer than when in the bloc, there is the risk that we get worse terms than tha bloc might. It's going to be a couple of years at least before we get a clearer idea of which way Brexit is sending us, better or worse.

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43 minutes ago, Wes Tender said:

Many of the remoaner fraternity crowed that we wouldn't be able to gain one. It's a step in the direction of us possibly joining the Trans-Pacific Partnership one day, especially when we will also have trade agreements with Canada, Australia and New Zealand too.

Remoaners are only too happy to make comparisons with the amount of trade we do with the EU, but it is still in the mutual interests of both parties to have a FTA, so these deals will be additional to that. If we don't agree a FTA with them, then as well as throwing the £39 Billion so-called divorce settlement into question, a WTO tariff regime will  cost the EU billions of pounds of revenue into our coffers annually with the huge trade surplus trade in goods they have with us.

 

Getting an FTA with anybody should not be hard, getting one that delivers all that Brexit is claimed to will be very difficult, especially if the other side view us as untrustworthy.

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32 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

In saying this you have to accept that in negotiating on our own, with far less trade on offer than when in the bloc, there is the risk that we get worse terms than tha bloc might. It's going to be a couple of years at least before we get a clearer idea of which way Brexit is sending us, better or worse.

Then I suggest that we wait a couple of years and then peruse what we have achieved in terms of trade deals around the World before decrying our chances as an independent sovereign nation. There are swings and roundabouts in negotiating as a single nation. Naturally we have less to offer in terms of size than a trading block like the EU, but then again, we are the 5th biggest economy in the World and as the second largest economy in the EU, bigger than the smallest 19 EU countries' economies combined.

Naturally it is easier to negotiate the terms of a trade deal with one country rather than with 27, as the length of time the EU takes to negotiate its deals proves. 

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3 minutes ago, Wes Tender said:

Naturally it is easier to negotiate the terms of a trade deal with one country rather than with 27, as the length of time the EU takes to negotiate its deals proves. 

Still only in your head. The EU has more trade deals than any other bloc or nation - 42. The next highest, Switzerland has only 29. The US has 14.   

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1 hour ago, badgerx16 said:

In saying this you have to accept that in negotiating on our own, with far less trade on offer than when in the bloc, there is the risk that we get worse terms than tha bloc might. It's going to be a couple of years at least before we get a clearer idea of which way Brexit is sending us, better or worse.

Yes as maybe but we will be free to negotiate with every country outside the bloc

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9 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Perhaps Jamaica & Zimbabwe should have stayed in the Empire, that way they would have more trade deals. 

Bizarro, congrats. They stayed in the Commonwealth, like the EU a voluntary association of independent countries engaged in trade between members.    

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23 minutes ago, buctootim said:

Bizarro, congrats. They stayed in the Commonwealth, like the EU a voluntary association of independent countries engaged in trade between members.    

Zimbabwe aren’t in the commonwealth, is Norway?

If The EU was the same as the commonwealth, we’d still be in it. In fact if The EU was an association of independent countries engaged, in trade between members, we’d still be in it. However, unless you’re a complete plank or been asleep for 40 years,  you’d know it’s far far more than that. Otherwise, good point well made...lol. 

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34 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Zimbabwe aren’t in the commonwealth.

If The EU was the same as the commonwealth, we’d still be in it. In fact if The EU was an association of independent countries engaged, in trade between members, we’d still be in it. However, unless you’re a complete plank or been asleep for 40 years,  you’d know it’s far far more than that. Otherwise, good point well made...lol. 

You were talking about the Empire, which mostly finished 20 years or so before the UK even joined the EEC. You face planted trying to make a lame gotcha about staying contemporary. Doh. Zimbabwe were in the Commonwealth but got sanctioned for breaching international agreements and went off in a huff. Whatever happened to Zimbabwe and their economy .......?  Boris and Bob, two peas in a pod. 

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59 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Perhaps Jamaica & Zimbabwe should have stayed in the Empire, that way they would have more trade deals. 

The 11 populated British Overseas Territories still depend on the UK for their International trade agreements. The Empire ended when Hong Kong was handed back at the end of the lease on it.

Edited by badgerx16
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2 hours ago, buctootim said:

Still only in your head. The EU has more trade deals than any other bloc or nation - 42. The next highest, Switzerland has only 29. The US has 14.   

I read a good article reducing that number of so-called EU trade deals substantially by taking out those where deals weren't fully signed, weren't full deals etc. Also several were minuscule deals with non-entity countries, but looked good to prop up the numbers. I can't find it without further digging.

However, you might like to read this counter argument which calls your argument of bigger is better and stronger as a fallacy.

https://www.brexit-watch.org/the-three-basic-fallacies-that-cause-confusion-about-trade/the-three-basic-fallacies-that-cause-confusion-about-trade

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4 hours ago, SFC Forever said:

What many don't understand or refuse to accept, is that we voted for the chance to decide our own destiny. Being told what we can and can't do is foreign to my beliefs and many others. Trade is something that every country in the world needs. No longer staying under EU rules means that we can go to seek new trade deals elsewhere. It does not mean we have to lose trading with the EU.

What you don't seem to understand is that life is not cut and dry. Half the population voted for Brexit on many lies. That half probably thought it would be cut and dry. Now whilst I am aware of the example some of the hyperbole that brexiteers are using about "liberty" and "independence"....using the US example, which, of course is basically an example of rich men making an awful lot of money and pretending it's about freedom and liberty is not much of the sort. We signed and agreed to join a European Union; no evil empire forced us and if we act the way we our, as above, as Thatcher would tell you, our name will be absolutely mud only fit to deal with third-rate, right-wing countries, which, I suppose is what we're turning into......is that liberty to you? To be seen as a racist little island full of ignorant people? It's not for me or 49% and rising people on this island.

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3 hours ago, SFC Forever said:

Yes as maybe but we will be free to negotiate with every country outside the bloc

You think they'll want to trade with a country that goes back on legal agreements signed? Your brexit friends are taking us down a very dark road. We're not the good guys anymore you know? This is a stain on our country's history and will be written like that.

Edited by Hockey_saint
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1 hour ago, badgerx16 said:

The 11 populated British Overseas Territories still depend on the UK for their International trade agreements. The Empire ended when Hong Kong was handed back at the end of the lease on it.

Of course Thatcher tried to extend that lease, but like Brexiteers will find shortly, she came into contact with reality. In her case the reality that China had half a million soldiers stationed at the Hong Kong border in case we went back on our word like we're doing now.....They told her as much and it's been documented that they did indeed have those troops stationed in Guanzhou....just in case.

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13 minutes ago, Hockey_saint said:

What you don't seem to understand is that life is not cut and dry. Half the population voted for Brexit on many lies. That half probably thought it would be cut and dry. Now whilst I am aware of the example some of the hyperbole that brexiteers are using about "liberty" and "independence"....using the US example, which, of course is basically an example of rich men making an awful lot of money and pretending it's about freedom and liberty is not much of the sort. We signed and agreed to join a European Union; no evil empire forced us and if we act the way we our, as above, as Thatcher would tell you, our name will be absolutely mud only fit to deal with third-rate, right-wing countries, which, I suppose is what we're turning into......is that liberty to you? To be seen as a racist little island full of ignorant people? It's not for me or 49% and rising people on this island.

In your 'life is not cut and dry' world are you prepared to admit that nearly half the population voted against Brexit based on many lies, or were there lies only from one side of the argument?

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12 minutes ago, Hockey_saint said:

You think they'll want to trade with a country that goes back on legal agreements signed? Your brexit friends are taking us down a very dark road. We're not the good guys anymore you know? This is a stain on our country's history and will be written like that.

What if the legal agreement that was signed had a legal agreement within it that allowed said country to go back on the legal agreement?

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21 minutes ago, Hockey_saint said:

 We signed and agreed to join a European Union; no evil empire forced us and if we act the way we our, as above, as Thatcher would tell you, our name will be absolutely mud only fit to deal with third-rate, right-wing countries, which, I suppose is what we're turning into......is that liberty to you? To be seen as a racist little island full of ignorant people? It's not for me or 49% and rising people on this island.

Lol, keep em coming........ As Billy Joel said, “don’t go changing, we love you just the way you our”. 

Complaining about ignorance, whilst writing baffling  pony that makes hieroglyphics look like simple prose. 
 

You lost, we’re getting out, get over it. 

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5 minutes ago, Hockey_saint said:

What you don't seem to understand is that life is not cut and dry. Half the population voted for Brexit on many lies. That half probably thought it would be cut and dry. Now whilst I am aware of the example some of the hyperbole that brexiteers are using about "liberty" and "independence"....using the US example, which, of course is basically an example of rich men making an awful lot of money and pretending it's about freedom and liberty is not much of the sort. We signed and agreed to join a European Union; no evil empire forced us and if we act the way we our, as above, as Thatcher would tell you, our name will be absolutely mud only fit to deal with third-rate, right-wing countries, which, I suppose is what we're turning into......is that liberty to you? To be seen as a racist little island full of ignorant people? It's not for me or 49% and rising people on this island.

What the fukk you bringing racism into it for. I for one was married to a beauty from Mauritius and regularly associate with black friends. As do many in our country.

I know life is not easy, cut and dried as you say but we voted to leave predominantly to be able to make our own decisions. I for one do not want Brussels dictating what I am allowed to do and what rules, laws we will have. The EU has progressively taken from us more and more for what. We still have some of the brightest people working here so it is time we stood up to be counted and began working for ourselves. The better we survive will depend on how well we pull together.

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5 minutes ago, SFC Forever said:

What the fukk you bringing racism into it for. I for one was married to a beauty from Mauritius and regularly associate with black friends. As do many in our country.

I know life is not easy, cut and dried as you say but we voted to leave predominantly to be able to make our own decisions. I for one do not want Brussels dictating what I am allowed to do and what rules, laws we will have. The EU has progressively taken from us more and more for what. We still have some of the brightest people working here so it is time we stood up to be counted and began working for ourselves. The better we survive will depend on how well we pull together.

You think racism has nothing whatsoever to do with it? Again....using simple one dimensional arguments for things that have an awful lot of elements to them. No prime minister ever signed away the right for us to choose what we wanted to do.....we did however sign legally binding contracts.....That's nice you have a foreign bride...I know lots of old men that marched with the NF who now have Thai brides....doesn't mean they're not racist and didn't vote brexit. Lots of people in this country would prefer we weren't modelled on Singapore...you know, low tax, low human rights.....which is basically what you're advocating......again, it's the people you're getting yourself into bed with that are the issue.

Edited by Hockey_saint
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5 minutes ago, Hockey_saint said:

 No prime minister ever signed away the right for us to choose what we wanted to do.....

Complete and utter pony. The right to decide who entered the country was signed away, the right to set VAT rates was signed away. As Tony Benn, that famous racist right winger said, rights were given away by politicians, rights that belonged to the people. 

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You really are taking the p. I have seen many many losers but one as sad as you, never. 

10 minutes ago, Hockey_saint said:

You think racism has nothing whatsoever to do with it? Again....using simple one dimensional arguments for things that have an awful lot of elements to them. No prime minister ever signed away the right for us to choose what we wanted to do.....we did however sign legally binding contracts.....That's nice you have a foreign bride...I know lots of old men that marched with the NF who now have Thai brides....doesn't mean they're not racist and didn't vote brexit. Lots of people in this country would prefer we weren't modelled on Singapore...you know, low tax, low human rights.....which is basically what you're advocating......again, it's the people you're getting yourself into bed with that are the issue.

I do not get into bed with anybody except my wife thank you. When the general election to0ok place how is it that so many voted for a government we now have. We had the choice of a Corbyn led Russian loving party or possibly a Liberal party instead. I suppose you believe that the covid pandemic has had nowt to do with our present situation. 

Wait a few years and see how we fare first then make your mind up. We are in a situation that nobody would have chosen so let us get over it and see how we come out the other side.

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17 minutes ago, SFC Forever said:

You really are taking the p. I have seen many many losers but one as sad as you, never. 

I do not get into bed with anybody except my wife thank you. When the general election to0ok place how is it that so many voted for a government we now have. We had the choice of a Corbyn led Russian loving party or possibly a Liberal party instead. I suppose you believe that the covid pandemic has had nowt to do with our present situation. 

Wait a few years and see how we fare first then make your mind up. We are in a situation that nobody would have chosen so let us get over it and see how we come out the other side.

You think Corbyn was the one in bed with the Russians? (you're aware the Russians aren't communist anymore right? more totalitarian and quite right wing) You've not got much of a clue on Cummings' links to Breibart and how much they're paid by Putin obviously. Corbyn was an idiot but you and a great many people were sold on a lie.....an oven-ready one. I'm quite choosy who I align with and when I walk down the Mall in London and see thousands of skinheads making nazi salutes and shouting for Brexit...I know which side I won't be siding with.

 

Also, no, I think our death rate has a great deal to do with the liar you put into office and his dithering for weeks so thanks......could still have a grandfather if it weren't for the absolutely abysmal bunch you voted in, in the name of this sh!tshow that is brexit / far right project.

Edited by Hockey_saint
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59 minutes ago, SFC Forever said:

I for one do not want Brussels dictating what I am allowed to do and what rules, laws we will have.

A Brexit supporting friend of mine came out with this crap, "I don't want Brussels making my laws", so I asked what specific law Brussels brought in that they wanted changing and they didn't even have an answer. :lol:

 

 

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44 minutes ago, Hockey_saint said:

You think Corbyn was the one in bed with the Russians? (you're aware the Russians aren't communist anymore right? more totalitarian and quite right wing) You've not got much of a clue on Cummings' links to Breibart and how much they're paid by Putin obviously. Corbyn was an idiot but you and a great many people were sold on a lie.....an oven-ready one. I'm quite choosy who I align with and when I walk down the Mall in London and see thousands of skinheads making nazi salutes and shouting for Brexit...I know which side I won't be siding with.

 

Also, no, I think our death rate has a great deal to do with the liar you put into office and his dithering for weeks so thanks......could still have a grandfather if it weren't for the absolutely abysmal bunch you voted in, in the name of this sh!tshow that is brexit / far right project.

Corbyn was a frequent contributor to RT, as was Milne and others in the Corbyn orbit. Milne was a Putin fan-girl,  and host of fawning interviews with the great dictator. 

When Salisbury happened the Cretin could not bring himself to condemn the Russian state for hostile act on a British soil.

Yes, the is plenty of dodgy Russian money in the country and the Conservatives are as culpable as any.

But Corbyn, mainly because of his pitifully dim "anti-imperialism" sixth former worldview,  is a perpetual facilitator and apologist for the Russian state.

Edited by CB Fry
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It is so easy to make judgement when in opposition. Not so easy when you are in power. You call Boris a liar with what evidence? He might have made mistakes but do you really believe he did them on purpose? You talk about a small minority of skinheads but not of the many millions that voted. You put me with old men who have Thai brides and have no idea who I am.

 

You act like a Skate who goes on about how we broke the dock-strike that never was. Believing all the lies being spread by anti brexiteers yet go on about the so called lies that the right wing have spread. Nobody will know what will happen until we are clear of the EU. Then and only then will we be able to begin making serious moves towards regaining a healthy trading balance.  I understand that it will be tough for a year or so but we will survive.

 

You sadly, can only cast aspersions rather than have an open honest discussion.

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