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Brexit - Enter at Your Own Risk


Saints Web Definitely Not Official Second Referendum  

175 members have voted

  1. 1. Saints Web Definitely Not Official Second Referendum

    • Leave Before - Leave Now
      42
    • Leave Before - Remain Now
      8
    • Leave Before - Not Bothered Now
      2
    • Remain Before - Remain Now
      95
    • Remain Before - Leave Now
      7
    • Remain Before - Not Bothered Now
      0
    • Not Bothered Before - Leave Now
      3
    • Not Bothered Before - Remain Now
      4
    • I've never been bothered - Why am I on this Thread?
      3
    • No second Ref - 2016 was Definitive and Binding
      11


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7 hours ago, Hockey_saint said:

Because you don't break legally binding contracts

Nobody has broken any legally binding contracts, stop whining about it.

The law will be changed in plenty of time to avoid that happening - I guess that's what you can do when you respect the sovereignty of parliament and have a stonking majority.  Boris playing a blinder ;) 

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8 hours ago, Hockey_saint said:

I'm not wrong. The biggest federation on the planet with a bigger GDP than the US doesn't need us.

No doubt the biggst federation on the planet - well, second biggest (GDP in 2019, US = $21.4t, EU = $18.3t) - will be over the moon to prop up the Spanish economy in your crackpot scenario ;) 

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9 hours ago, Hockey_saint said:

Some dummy who knows that Russia is no longer ruled by communists you mean? Or some dummy who doesn't take the word of a liar who has been sacked from every job he's ever worked for, has had many unnamed children, said some god-awful racist comments and who obsesses over a man who calls the KKK "very nice people", who's dad was a member of said kkk and both of who are controlled by a right wing cardel most people in the 40's would call the enemy. You gave me examples of how you couldn't possibly be racist....but wil happily back this racist pond life if it suits your odd fantasy of "freedom".....and you call ME a dummy?

 

Love this clip of the oven-ready deal....brilliant. What a liar, charlaton and crook.....you back that and call other people who don't agree dummies? Protection for the NHS and an oven-ready deal we were promised. Both are lies. All the tories back it apparently....alright then....

 

 

I feel really worried for you. Here we are, going to lose all of our trade with the EU because the electorate comprises a majority of thick, racist bigots who not only voted to leave your beloved  EU, but also voted to elect a corrupt extreme right wing government with a stonking majority. It must really irk you immensely whenever you go out, that you are literally surrounded by these thick racist bigots. They say that wherever you are, you are no more than 6 feet away from a rat, so it must engender that sort of horror for you, eh?

It comes through increasingly with every additional post you make. I worry that very soon, you are going to explode with pent up rage. Go and lie down in a quiet dark room until you are calmer. Think about taking up meditation or do something else to distract you from these thoughts.

Edited by Wes Tender
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Remoaners being trolled by Boris and helping his negotiations by falling into the fucking great elephant trap he’s set.
 

The more the usual suspect wet their pants,  more light is  shone on the NI part of the WD. His leave coalition is all that matters, and  they'll be more concerned with the EU dictating policy between parts of the U.K., than breaking any agreement with them. The fact Boris actually signed up for that will be lost in the noise and just like when he prorogued Parliament, he’ll be able to line up a people v remoaners narrative. The more they go on about him & Cummins being mad & Trumpist, the more the EU will believe he may just do it. This will concentrate minds far far more than May & Robbins style of negotiation, which was basically “how would you like to fuck us”

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1 hour ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Remoaners being trolled by Boris and helping his negotiations by falling into the fucking great elephant trap he’s set.
 

The more the usual suspect wet their pants,  more light is  shone on the NI part of the WD. His leave coalition is all that matters, and  they'll be more concerned with the EU dictating policy between parts of the U.K., than breaking any agreement with them. The fact Boris actually signed up for that will be lost in the noise and just like when he prorogued Parliament, he’ll be able to line up a people v remoaners narrative. The more they go on about him & Cummins being mad & Trumpist, the more the EU will believe he may just do it. This will concentrate minds far far more than May & Robbins style of negotiation, which was basically “how would you like to fuck us”

He has set a crude trap. But it remains to be seen who its for and whether anybody falls into it. One analysis is that he is deliberately ramping up concern about breaking international and the break up of the UK so that it will soften up Parliament to accept a watered down deal that tacitly accepts the status quo over a level playing field without ever formally agreeing to it. And the EU hold off any retaliatory action until the UK actually changes it - ie never.  

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1 hour ago, buctootim said:

He has set a crude trap. But it remains to be seen who its for and whether anybody falls into it. One analysis is that he is deliberately ramping up concern about breaking international and the break up of the UK so that it will soften up Parliament to accept a watered down deal that tacitly accepts the status quo over a level playing field without ever formally agreeing to it. And the EU hold off any retaliatory action until the UK actually changes it - ie never.  

Sounds about right but then it's a pretty disgraceful way for the leader of a country to behave...but then, as the video on the previous page shows, he's a massive liar.

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3 hours ago, buctootim said:

One analysis is that he is deliberately ramping up concern about breaking international and the break up of the UK so that it will soften up Parliament to accept a watered down deal that tacitly accepts the status quo over a level playing field without ever formally agreeing to it. 

You just can’t help yourself can you. Always clutching at straws that somehow everything is designed towards a Brexit betrayal and a softening of Brexit. . When’s it going to sink in. There hasn’t been and won’t be a Brexit betrayal, no matter how hard you hope for one. We’re taking back control. 

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2 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

You just can’t help yourself can you. Always clutching at straws that somehow everything is designed towards a Brexit betrayal and a softening of Brexit. . When’s it going to sink in. There hasn’t been and won’t be a Brexit betrayal, no matter how hard you hope for one. We’re taking back control. 

Really? What happened to the surrender WA? The no border down the Irish Sea?.  

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7 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

What is the point of International agreements, freely signed by both sides, if they can subsequently be over-ridden at will ?

Read the argument put forward in the link and answer ta simple question that is the basis for it. 

What should take precedence in a democratic nation state: international law or the will of the democratically elected government? To those of us who believe in democracy, the answer is clear: the democratic will trumps international treaties every time. To the anti-democrats of the Remainer elite, however, the opposite is the case: they believe democracy can legitimately be constrained by treaties drawn up overseas, in the same way Papal edicts once sought to tie the hands of local rulers.

The circumstances surrounding the original drawing up of the WA have completely changed post the GE and the mandate given to the government now.

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6 minutes ago, buctootim said:

So there have been 'Brexit betrayals' before then? 

Several. Some from the rogue Speaker, Bercow, some from traitorous MPs going to meet EU officials in Brussels to brief them on how to thwart the Brexit vote, other remoaner MPs passing legislation like the Benn Surrender Treaty obliging us to accept any deal the EU wanted to force on us,  May and Robbins plotting a deal with the EU without discussing the terms with her own Cabinet, particularly her own Brexit Minister, MPs taking over Parliamentary business to vote on contentious amendments to Brexit legislation ,etc.

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2 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

There hasn’t been and won’t be a Brexit betrayal, no matter how hard you hope for one. We’re taking back control. 

 

9 minutes ago, Wes Tender said:

Several. Some from the rogue Speaker, Bercow, some from traitorous MPs going to meet EU officials in Brussels to brief them on how to thwart the Brexit vote, other remoaner MPs passing legislation like the Benn Surrender Treaty obliging us to accept any deal the EU wanted to force on us,  May and Robbins plotting a deal with the EU without discussing the terms with her own Cabinet, particularly her own Brexit Minister, MPs taking over Parliamentary business to vote on contentious amendments to Brexit legislation ,etc.

 

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19 minutes ago, Wes Tender said:

Read the argument put forward in the link and answer ta simple question that is the basis for it. 

 

 

The circumstances surrounding the original drawing up of the WA have completely changed post the GE and the mandate given to the government now.

Those arguments could have been put forward by the democratically elected German Government in the mid 1930's when they started trashing International treaties.

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1 minute ago, badgerx16 said:

Those arguments could have been put forward by the democratically elected German Government in the mid 1930's when they started trashing International treaties.

Or Remainers Blair & Campbell when they invaded Iraq 

Edited by Lord Duckhunter
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37 minutes ago, Wes Tender said:

Read the argument put forward in the link and answer ta simple question that is the basis for it. 

 

 

The circumstances surrounding the original drawing up of the WA have completely changed post the GE and the mandate given to the government now.

What a load of nonsense, the government was elected on the back of the ‘oven-ready deal’, these scum bags have lied to the British people as much as the EU. How is that democracy?

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Just now, aintforever said:

What a load of nonsense, the government was elected on the back of the ‘oven-ready deal’, these scum bags have lied to the British people as much as the EU. How is that democracy?

Didums 

Do you really believe the Leavers that handed them such a decisive victory in Dec give a shiny shite.

You’re deluded if you think they believe they’ve been lied to. 

It’s glorious how you’re all getting upset ......
 

 

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1 minute ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Didums 

Do you really believe the Leavers that handed them such a decisive victory in Dec give a shiny shite.

You’re deluded if you think they believe they’ve been lied to. 

It’s glorious how you’re all getting upset ......
 

 

Lol. The deal will be a de minimis one. All the big issues will be kicked down the road some more.

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31 minutes ago, Hockey_saint said:

Cheering breaking the law....what have we come to. One thing is for sure, this won't be ignored by potential partners....But the the US have already sad sod your deal if you do that.

 

 

But do carry on cheering you muppet.

 

Typical! You broadcast allegations but have no proof to back them up. You lower yourself to the level of a bullied child with your name calling.

You keep saying that Boris and co have lied then show where and when. you say they have broken the law which one?

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It comes from a "lefty rag" and I am sure that the usual suspects will dismiss it  but the following from Andrew Rawnsley is worth reading. As I have said before, Thatcher would be spinning in her grave if she knew what is happening now to the Conservative party.  

 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/sep/13/the-escalating-delinquency-of-boris-johnson-and-his-gang-of-blue-anarchists

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46 minutes ago, Hockey_saint said:

Cheering breaking the law....what have we come to. One thing is for sure, this won't be ignored by potential partners....But the the US have already sad sod your deal if you do that.

 

 

But do carry on cheering you muppet.

Typical Hock. 

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9 minutes ago, Tamesaint said:

It comes from a "lefty rag" and I am sure that the usual suspects will dismiss it  but the following from Andrew Rawnsley is worth reading. As I have said before, Thatcher would be spinning in her grave if she knew what is happening now to the Conservative party.  

 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/sep/13/the-escalating-delinquency-of-boris-johnson-and-his-gang-of-blue-anarchists

is it even the conservative party anymore? Seems nothing more than a Dominic Cummings/vote leave plaything.....I mean, is there anything conservative about the entire cabinet?

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10 minutes ago, Tamesaint said:

It comes from a "lefty rag" and I am sure that the usual suspects will dismiss it  but the following from Andrew Rawnsley is worth reading. As I have said before, Thatcher would be spinning in her grave if she knew what is happening now to the Conservative party.  

 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/sep/13/the-escalating-delinquency-of-boris-johnson-and-his-gang-of-blue-anarchists

Well yet again the left are trying to smear Boris. As of now I have still to be shown proof of these law breaking incidents that you keep repeating the government is breaking.

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49 minutes ago, SFC Forever said:

Well yet again the left are trying to smear Boris. As of now I have still to be shown proof of these law breaking incidents that you keep repeating the government is breaking.

Michael Howard? The "left"??

Amazing.

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1 hour ago, SFC Forever said:

Well yet again the left are trying to smear Boris. As of now I have still to be shown proof of these law breaking incidents that you keep repeating the government is breaking.

Quite right. Sacked from The Times for lying. Michael Howard sacked him as a shadow minister and party vice-chairman for lying about his mistress having 2 abortions, used racist and homophobic language, refuses to say how many children he has.

How much smearing can a man take?

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2 hours ago, Hockey_saint said:

Cheering breaking the law....what have we come to. One thing is for sure, this won't be ignored by potential partners....But the the US have already sad sod your deal if you do that.

But do carry on cheering you muppet.

You really are a bit short on comprehension and long on the acceptance of bogus rantings of those who you believe to be credible sources of information provided it suits your warped agenda, aren't you?

Firstly, no treaty law has been broken yet. If a FTA is agreed with the EU, then the current proposed legislation will be rendered unnecessary. Essentially it is an insurance policy against no deal. In any event, the law has not even been passed yet. The EU are past masters at it.

The USA has not said sod your deal with us.The Speaker, Mad Nancy has shot from the lip that no trade deal will be done with us if the Good Friday Agreement is broken. Like you, she knows nothing and understands less, as the legislation proposed by the Government is designed to protect the Good Friday Agreement. As the Speaker of Congress, she has no more right to spout forth on what the USA trade policy will be than our former rogue Speaker, Bercow.

It doesn't appear to have affected the Japan deal and I don't see the Australians, Canadians and New Zealanders being bothered by us besting the EU either.

Oh, and looking back a few posts, I see that you are ageist and racist too. What a hypocrite you are.

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1 hour ago, Wes Tender said:

You really are a bit short on comprehension and long on the acceptance of bogus rantings of those who you believe to be credible sources of information provided it suits your warped agenda, aren't you?

Firstly, no treaty law has been broken yet. If a FTA is agreed with the EU, then the current proposed legislation will be rendered unnecessary. Essentially it is an insurance policy against no deal. In any event, the law has not even been passed yet. The EU are past masters at it.

The USA has not said sod your deal with us.The Speaker, Mad Nancy has shot from the lip that no trade deal will be done with us if the Good Friday Agreement is broken. Like you, she knows nothing and understands less, as the legislation proposed by the Government is designed to protect the Good Friday Agreement. As the Speaker of Congress, she has no more right to spout forth on what the USA trade policy will be than our former rogue Speaker, Bercow.

It doesn't appear to have affected the Japan deal and I don't see the Australians, Canadians and New Zealanders being bothered by us besting the EU either.

Oh, and looking back a few posts, I see that you are ageist and racist too. What a hypocrite you are.

Even by your standards Les, this is quite an achievement. Add ignorance about the role of Speaker of the House of Representatives and how the US political system works to the pitifully and predictably long list of subjects you know nothing about.

Edited by shurlock
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1 hour ago, Hockey_saint said:

To be fair, they called Michael Hestletine the "left" the other month. Just a bunch of right wing nutters.

He’s closer to the left than a Tory should be. He’s a raving pinko. Like you, he’s been turned nuts by Brexit. 
 

 

 

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Sterling work boys.

Quote

Japan trade deal commits UK to stricter state aid curbs than in EU talks

Contrasting positions could undermine negotiating stance with Brussels

https://www.ft.com/content/edb7d155-56b4-4065-9f83-31b2247fa178

I don't know what's funnier - the provisions against state aid which the UK considers a red line in negotiations with the EU and a fundamental encroachment on its sovereignty (something about Cummings wanting a free hand to build a trillion dollar tech company to rival Google or another pmsl) or the agricultural provisions in the FTA. Remember how the UK was going to secure a better deal for UK food than the EU, including a symbolic win for cheese (never mind many Japanese are lactose-intolerant). It turns out the UK failed to secure said deal (specifically new tariff-rate quotas under which it would have been able to sell a limited quantity of food to Japan at lower tariffs). Instead it was told it could only use any quota left unfilled by the EU i.e its sloppy seconds and  only for 10 of the 25 products covered in the EU-Japan FTA.  

I'm just surprised the Japanese didn't include a provision to sell Brexiters magic beans.

Edited by shurlock
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1 hour ago, shurlock said:

Even by your standards Les, this is quite an achievement. Add ignorance about the role of Speaker of the House of Representatives and how the US political system works to the pitifully and predictably long list of subjects you know nothing about.

I like the ageist and racist bit....is that like a bunch of fascists shouting down MPs calling them facist whilst making nazi salutes?.....I'm no racist...those are with ahem...Les there. He also obviously hasn't heard what the head of the ways and means committee on capitol hill has said either then. I know people who work for the state dept. in DC and they reckon we're fcked.

 

also, ageist....no, I'm against miserable old bstrds like you who want to screw this country over to get your own way in spite of everyone else. It's your party trying to turn this into an age war by blaming everything on young people....mainly because they won't vote for the crooked liars you do.

 

Love the line: "No British minister should solemnly undertake to observe treaty obligations with his fingers crossed behind his back.".....his own Brexit lawyer's calling him a lying scumbag crook. Brilliant.

 

https://news.sky.com/story/brexit-ex-law-chief-joins-rebellion-and-hits-out-at-pms-unconscionable-plan-12071438

Edited by Hockey_saint
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The democrat leaning Irish American lobby remains influential in the US. Not as big as in Kennedy's day but still counts. The Democrats control the House of Representatives and any trade deal agreed by the President needs to be approved by them.  Its a real issue, not abstract or made up.  

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23 minutes ago, buctootim said:

The democrat leaning Irish American lobby remains influential in the US. Not as big as in Kennedy's day but still counts. The Democrats control the House of Representatives and any trade deal agreed by the President needs to be approved by them.  Its a real issue, not abstract or made up.  

Yep, and people think it’s just the Democrats on the NE Seaboard. It really isn’t, some of the Republicans as well do not like Brits and they like the Trump populist wannabes on the Tory right even less.

What Boris and co are aiming for is a Anglosphere - a TTIP on steroids between English speaking nations. This dream is held and cherished by a minority in the hard right of the Republicans and Tories, the Think Tanks e.g. Heritage and IEA, UK tabloids e.g. DT, Sun, Mail, and Fox when they can be bothered or it’s a quieter week.

Tony Abbott has been a big driver in the idea, hence his appointment in the one thing Boris and Cummings haven’t done a U turn on. Biden is about to chuck a huge spanner in the works and it’s why the new Tories are desperate for Trump to hold on.

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2 hours ago, saint1977 said:

Yep, and people think it’s just the Democrats on the NE Seaboard. It really isn’t, some of the Republicans as well do not like Brits and they like the Trump populist wannabes on the Tory right even less.

What Boris and co are aiming for is a Anglosphere - a TTIP on steroids between English speaking nations. This dream is held and cherished by a minority in the hard right of the Republicans and Tories, the Think Tanks e.g. Heritage and IEA, UK tabloids e.g. DT, Sun, Mail, and Fox when they can be bothered or it’s a quieter week.

Tony Abbott has been a big driver in the idea, hence his appointment in the one thing Boris and Cummings haven’t done a U turn on. Biden is about to chuck a huge spanner in the works and it’s why the new Tories are desperate for Trump to hold on.

Absolutely but as pointed out, some of the committees that have to pass any bill are a-political and will absolutely not allow such an agreement so the US deal seems dead in the water if this bill goes through.

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13 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

A567610C-6585-4F78-AEB9-BD136DF1EE4B.jpeg

Frost is doing a great job of countering Barnier at every step. What a pity that we  didn't appoint him at the very beginning instead of the useless Robbins, but that would never have happened, because the Vicar's daughter was a remoaner and was perfectly happy to have the EU walk all over us in the negotiations. It's  a sad state of affairs that our position on the negotiations has to be put across on twatter, but the mainstream media and our national broadcaster are mainly remoaners and happy to put  across the EU's point of view, but not ours.

Great news last night though with the Internal Market Bill passing its first hurdle with such a substantial majority.

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38 minutes ago, Wes Tender said:

Great news last night though with the Internal Market Bill passing its first hurdle with such a substantial majority.

Yep. House of Commons could have stopped Government going back on parts of WA, but clearly decided there was good reason to do so.

An independent Sovereign Country showing its democracy at work, good to see. Although I’m sure the undemocratic Lords will try and override the will of the people. 

Edited by Lord Duckhunter
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Despite Brexit, English is set to become the EU official language...

The European Commission has just announced an agreement whereby English will be the official language of the European Union, given its majority status in the EU, despite the UK leaving.
As part of the final Brexit negotiations, Germany proposed a 5- year phase-in plan that would become known as "Euro-English". Germany argued that this may make the EU more inviting to the UK in the future.
In the first year, "s" will replace the soft "c". Sertainly, this will make the sivil servants jump with joy. The hard "c" will be dropped in favour of "k". This should klear up konfusion, and keyboards kan have one less letter.
There will be growing publik enthusiasm in the sekond year when the troublesome "ph" will be replaced with "f". This will make words like fotograf 20% shorter.
In the 3rd year, publik akseptanse of the new spelling kan be expekted to reach the stage where more komplikated changes are possible.
Governments will enkourage the removal of double letters which have always ben a deterent to akurate speling.
Also, al wil agre that the horibl mes of the silent "e" in the languag is disgrasful and it should go away.
By the 4th yer peopl wil be reseptiv to steps such as replasing "th" with "z" and "w" with "v".
During ze fifz yer, ze unesesary "o" kan be dropd from vords kontaining "ou" and after ziz fifz yer, ve vil hav a reil sensi bl riten styl.
Zer vil be no mor trubl or difikultis and evrivun vil find it ezi TU understand ech oza. Ze drem of a united urop vil finali kum tru.

Und efter ze fifz yer, ve vil al be speking German like zey vunted in ze forst plas.
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