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Saints Web Definitely Not Official Second Referendum  

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  1. 1. Saints Web Definitely Not Official Second Referendum

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11 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

To summarise, the UK Government would have made exactly the same decisions regarding the acquisition of the vaccines, using exactly the same EU law, if we had stayed in the EU. Brexit made ZERO difference to the process or outcome.

And the vaccine was funded in part by the EU:

https://www.researchprofessionalnews.com/rr-news-europe-horizon-2020-2021-1-biontech-chief-eu-r-d-funds-helped-develop-covid-19-vaccine/

Edited by aintforever
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Fascinating that Covid vaccination is spamming up the Brexit thread.

There is a Covid thread you know.

Really this thread should be covering, in detail, how the buccaneering free trading UK is dominating the world again.

In time I guess it will mainly be coverage of street parties in previously down-trodden fishing communities who are now free to transform their communities with swashbuckling trade all over the world.

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Meanwhile, back on planet Earth, it is interesting to look back to last year, May 14th to be exact:

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President Donald Trump has suggested multiple times that a coronavirus vaccine could come within months, an accelerated timeline that prominent health experts and veteran vaccine developers say is unlikely absent a miracle. "We're looking to get it by the end of the year if we can, maybe before," Trump said Friday during in a Rose Garden event centered on his administration's efforts to fast-track a vaccine.

“Vaccine work is looking VERY promising, before end of year,” Trump tweeted on Thursday. Good numbers coming out of States that are opening. America is getting its life back! Vaccine work is looking VERY promising, before end of year. Likewise, other solutions!

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) May 14, 2020
“I think we’re going to have a vaccine by the end of the year,” he told reporters later in the day.

And how did the experts and MSM respond? Like this:

 

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NBC News: May 15, 2020, 6:34 PM BST By Jane C. Timm

President Donald Trump has suggested multiple times that a coronavirus vaccine could come within months, an accelerated timeline that prominent health experts and veteran vaccine developers say is unlikely absent a miracle. Experts say that the development, testing and production of a vaccine for the public is still at least 12 to 18 months off, and that anything less would be a medical miracle.

 

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What were the main drivers for the vaccine development? Like most things in life, money and commitment. 

Operation Warp Speed (OWS) is a public–private partnership initiated by President Donald J Trump and the U.S. government to facilitate and accelerate the development, manufacturing, and distribution of COVID-19 vaccines, therapeutics, and diagnostics. All I can say is God bless America.

The money was spent as follows:

Operation Warp Speed.jpg

Edited by Guided Missile
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2 hours ago, Guided Missile said:

Retard makes his case even weaker and also think there is an EU magic money tree.

Not like the free magic money from the UK Technology Strategy board and the Biological Sciences Research Council eh? The EU got a vaccine for their money. We got erm, well, FA.     

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Boris played a blinder with Brexit and comes up Trumps with the vaccine:

Ball by ball commentary here.

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Britain got on the front foot with vaccines thanks to Brexit-inspired 'no deal' with the EU on jabs
Officials now believe that the UK’s decision secure its own supplies and 'go it alone' was the 'best decision we made in the whole pandemic'
Last summer the UK and the European Union were locked in fierce negotiations, with both sides refusing to budge. Behind the scenes, officials from both sides were searching for a landing zone for a potential deal. Yet the key sticking point was not the level playing field, nor the future of the fishing industry: it was how best to secure vital Covid vaccines.
And unlike the Brexit negotiations, there was to be no last-minute breakthrough. In the second week of July, the UK walked away. Officials involved in those talks now believe the UK’s ‘vaccine no deal’ with the EU was the “best decision we’ve made in the whole pandemic”. Speaking to The Telegraph on condition of anonymity, multiple Whitehall sources said the decision taken by then-business secretary Alok Sharma in early July had freed this country to lead the world in rolling out the lifesaving jabs.
At the time, a lot of people said it was madness. They said it was putting Brexit over lives,” one senior official said. “But whether you agree or disagree with the decision to leave the EU, if we were still a member state we wouldn’t be this far ahead.”
Officials from the EU offered the UK the chance to join the combined purchasing power of 27 member states, but under a few conditions. To join, the UK would have to immediately cease all negotiations with any supplier also in talks with the EU. The European Commission would have an exclusive right to negotiate with vaccine manufacturers on our behalf, while the UK, unlike EU Member States, would have no say on which companies to negotiate with, how many doses to buy, at what price and on what delivery schedule.
There was a complete loss of control and complete loss of say over the entire strategy,” one Whitehall official said. “We told the EU, we can't participate like this. For a few weeks we tried to negotiate on governance - basically we were saying we would only take part if we had more of a say. But the EU wouldn’t move.”
Pressure to join forces with Brussels was intense. Leading scientists had published a letter in the Guardian suggesting that a failure to do so would likely leave the UK in a queue with other non-EU countries to acquire the vaccine after EU member states, and on less-favourable terms.
This country became the first in the world to sign deals with AstraZeneca in May, and accelerated approval of the Oxford vaccine through the MHRA on December 30.
On the Continent, the Oxford vaccine is yet to be approved. After the EU relaxed the rules on member states striking their own deals, the German government has come under fire for lagging behind other countries in accessing the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine - despite BioNTech being a German company. Meanwhile the Netherlands only began vaccinating on January 6, nearly a month after the UK.
Speaking to Der Spiegel magazine, the inventor of the Pfizer vaccine Uğur Şahin suggested this week that the EU had hedged its bets, and lost. “The process in Europe certainly didn't proceed as quickly and straightforwardly as with other countries,” he said. “In part because the European Union isn't directly authorised, and member states also have a say. That can result in a loss of time in a negotiation situation where a strong message is needed. There was an assumption that many other companies would produce vaccines. There was apparently an attitude of: We'll get enough, it won't be that bad, we have everything under control. That surprised me.

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Leading scientists had published a letter in the Guardian suggesting that a failure to do so would likely leave the UK in a queue with other non-EU countries to acquire the vaccine after EU member states, and on less-favourable terms. :wave:

 

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21 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

Image

This is where we have ended up.

Can someone please try and explain to me how this squares with what was promised by the leave campaigners?

That’s very revealing but to be a bit picky shouldn’t it be just GB that’s tucked away in the naughty corner with Northern Ireland in some other loop?

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2 hours ago, Sheaf Saint said:

Image

This is where we have ended up.

Can someone please try and explain to me how this squares with what was promised by the leave campaigners?

Well its pretty easy, I’m surprised someone has to ask.

We were promised out of the CU, SM and an end to free movement. Therefore where else could we be on that diagram? Had we voted to remain we’d have only been with Bulgaria, Romania & Croatia anyway, so it’s a pretty pointless diagram. 

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3 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Well its pretty easy, I’m surprised someone has to ask.

We were promised out of the CU, SM and an end to free movement. Therefore where else could we be on that diagram? Had we voted to remain we’d have only been with Bulgaria, Romania & Croatia anyway, so it’s a pretty pointless diagram. 

“There is a free trade zone stretching from Iceland to Turkey that all European nations have access to, regardless of whether they are in or out of the euro or EU. After we vote to leave we will stay in this zone. The suggestion that Bosnia, Serbia, Albania and the Ukraine would stay part of this free trade area – and Britain would be on the outside with just Belarus – is as credible as Jean-Claude Juncker joining UKIP.

Agreeing to maintain this continental free trade zone is the simple course and emphatically in everyone’s interests.”

Michael Gove - April 2016.

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1 hour ago, Sheaf Saint said:

“There is a free trade zone stretching from Iceland to Turkey that all European nations have access to, regardless of whether they are in or out of the euro or EU.

Michael Gove - April 2016.

Have we not got access to it now? 

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1 hour ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Have we not got access to it now? 

Yes. In the same way we have 'access' to markets anywhere else in the world.

It doesn't exactly fit with the notion of "staying in that zone" does it.

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Last nail in the Remainer's arguments. This article signals it's time to move on, losers:

Quote

Nissan Chief operating officer Ashwani Gupta said that Boris Johnson's deal has prevented major turmoil - and dismissed disruption in the ports as "peanuts". Covid is forcing the company to pause some production in Sunderland from Friday. However, the plant could nearly double production from its pre-Covid levels of 320,000 to 350,000 cars a year if there is enough demand in future, Mr Gupta said, with the firm expected to win market share from imported rival marques as their sales dip amid increased red tape.

He said: “Brexit for Nissan is a positive. We’ll take this opportunity to redefine the auto industry in the UK. In certain conditions, our competitiveness is improved. For some of the cases, it is at par. It depends on which car, but competitiveness is definitely improved in electric vehicles. Sunderland is one of the top three plants in the world for competitiveness for Nissan. Brexit gives us the competitive advantage in the UK and outside."

Mr Gupta added that the trade agreement would help protect 75,000 jobs in the UK and across Europe. 

Boris plays another blinder.

 

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Here's someone celebrating the success of the Nissan deal.

The spirit of triumph and celebration sweeping the country brings a  tear to the eye it really does.

It's time to move on, losers.

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The Chief Executive of HMRC told MPs yesterday that British businesses will spend £7.5 billion a year handling customs declarations — as much as they would have done under a no-deal Brexit. They would need to handle an extra 215 million forms whereas last year they didn't need to do anything

That's a bonus then.

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17 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Exactly. 
 

Do we have a FTA with the EU, or not? 
 

 

All the FTA does is prevent quotas and discriminatory tariffs. What it does not prevent is obstructive customs rules,with associated costs, and requirements to comply with additional quality standards, such as the phytosanitory certificates that were previously implicit but now need to be physically generated and presented.

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3 hours ago, ecuk268 said:

The Chief Executive of HMRC told MPs yesterday that British businesses will spend £7.5 billion a year handling customs declarations — as much as they would have done under a no-deal Brexit. They would need to handle an extra 215 million forms whereas last year they didn't need to do anything

That's a bonus then.

£34.88 per form.  That seems like a lot of money for a customs declaration.  Any idea how he reached that conclusion - I imagine that once one form has been completed correctly, the rest will be largely 'copy & paste' won't they?

I'm assuming he's costed each form to include courier delivery rather than an email?

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42 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

£34.88 per form.  That seems like a lot of money for a customs declaration.  Any idea how he reached that conclusion - I imagine that once one form has been completed correctly, the rest will be largely 'copy & paste' won't they?

I'm assuming he's costed each form to include courier delivery rather than an email?

You and I know it's total bollox, but let's not spoil a good Remainer whine. 

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31 minutes ago, Guided Missile said:

You and I know it's total bollox, but let's not spoil a good Remainer whine. 

Obviously you know a lot more about it than the Chief Executive of HMRC.

Where's your evidence?

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Here's ERG hardman Owen Paterson celebrating the power of free-trading independent global Britain buccaneering and dominating the world, unchained and sovereign.

And definitely not pathetically weeping and whining like a blubbering little bitch.

 

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5 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

Here's ERG hardman Owen Paterson celebrating the power of free-trading independent global Britain buccaneering and dominating the world, unchained and sovereign.

And definitely not pathetically weeping and whining like a blubbering little bitch.

 

To be fair Owen thought we would get everything we wanted for free - all gain and no pain. All the benefits and no responsibilities and no bill. It's not his fault he is an absolute fuckwit. I blame the parents. 

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Hey brexit fans, I’m painfully aware of the negative aspects of our secession due to the MSM’s anti-farage agenda, but I haven’t heard much about the benefits yet.
Perhaps one of you winners can give me an example of something that is now better, to counterbalance all this leftie angst? TIA

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24 minutes ago, View From The Top said:

 

Were people really so blinded that they thought being British was all that was needed?

Don't you mean why aren't those bloody foreigners eternally grateful for our liberating them in 1944/45 ?

( Obvs not the Germans, Italians, Finns, Austrians, Bulgarians, Hungarians, Romanians, or Slovaks though ).

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45 minutes ago, View From The Top said:

I just cannot get my skull around how anyone is surprised at the amount of paperwork/customs forms/fees etc that are required as a 3rd Country?

Were people really so blinded that they thought being British was all that was needed?

No, apparently all Brexiteers knew exactly what they were voting for.

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30 minutes ago, Plastic said:

Hey brexit fans, I’m painfully aware of the negative aspects of our secession due to the MSM’s anti-farage agenda, but I haven’t heard much about the benefits yet.
Perhaps one of you winners can give me an example of something that is now better, to counterbalance all this leftie angst? TIA

Tampons are cheaper and passports are blue.

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36 minutes ago, Plastic said:

Hey brexit fans, I’m painfully aware of the negative aspects of our secession due to the MSM’s anti-farage agenda, but I haven’t heard much about the benefits yet.
Perhaps one of you winners can give me an example of something that is now better, to counterbalance all this leftie angst? TIA

This forum's village idiot this morning wanked himself to a climax on the back of Nissan announcing they are going to stay in Sunderland but they've had to spend money and make arrangements to mitigate the impact of our newly prehistoric customs arrangements we've independently decided to move to.

Running to stand still to cling on to what we already had.

But to the pigshit thick village idiot, thats a triumphant mic-drop moment of glory.

So there's that.

 

 

 

Edited by CB Fry
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37 minutes ago, Guided Missile said:

How can you have evidence for a forecast?

You are disputing his findings which are based on current customs data, the new regulations, and the extra costs to be incurred. 

What are you basing your conjecture on?

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20 minutes ago, aintforever said:

Tampons are cheaper and passports are blue.

If you buy something from an EU-based website, you now have to pay custom charges, despite Boris claiming that his last-minute deal would give tariff-free access (he does have a tendency to lie through his teeth.

So that should reduce imports by a minute amount.

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38 minutes ago, ecuk268 said:

You are disputing his findings which are based on current customs data, the new regulations, and the extra costs to be incurred. 

What are you basing your conjecture on?

They are not findings, evidence, nor data. They are forecasts based on what they calculate it costs for a company to fill in a customs form. I don't know what they pay tax inspectors (a sorry bunch) but I can't imagine is costing over £30 to fill a form in. Still the HMRC and the Treasury have been so accurate with their forecasts in the past, who am I to argue.

Still total bollox, though, but you latch onto it. I'll stick with the CEO of Nissan who dismissed disruption in the ports as "peanuts".

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44 minutes ago, ecuk268 said:

 .....despite Boris claiming that his last-minute deal would give tariff-free access (he does have a tendency to lie through his teeth.

 

But he Got Brexit Done.

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9 minutes ago, Guided Missile said:

They are not findings, evidence, nor data. They are forecasts based on what they calculate it costs for a company to fill in a customs form. I don't know what they pay tax inspectors (a sorry bunch) but I can't imagine is costing over £30 to fill a form in. Still the HMRC and the Treasury have been so accurate with their forecasts in the past, who am I to argue.

Still total bollox, though, but you latch onto it. I'll stick with the CEO of Nissan who dismissed disruption in the ports as "peanuts".

Current customs data is evidence. The assumption is that this year's figures will be similar. The new regulations are fact. You're saying it's "total bollox" is based on absolutely nothing. Like most people who can't put forward a logical argument, you resort to childish insults (a sorry bunch). 

 

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8 minutes ago, ecuk268 said:

Current customs data is evidence. The assumption is that this year's figures will be similar. The new regulations are fact. You're saying it's "total bollox" is based on absolutely nothing. Like most people who can't put forward a logical argument, you resort to childish insults (a sorry bunch). 

 

If it's all the same to you, I'll quote the Office for National Statistics:

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Our users may reasonably ask “Brexit is important. How do you factor it in?”. The simple answer is that we don’t. This is because we base our assumptions on past trends, and do not attempt to predict the possible effects of any future political or economic developments. An important reason for this is that any assumptions would inevitably be speculative. There are many different views on what impact Brexit may have, but no way of knowing for certain.

Pretty much sums it up for me. Not "The Chief Executive of HMRC told MPs yesterday that British businesses will spend £7.5 billion a year handling customs declarations "

How the hell can he make a statement like that? Total bollox...

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1 minute ago, Guided Missile said:

If it's all the same to you, I'll quote the Office for National Statistics:

Pretty much sums it up for me. Not "The Chief Executive of HMRC told MPs yesterday that British businesses will spend £7.5 billion a year handling customs declarations "

How the hell can he make a statement like that? Total bollox...

So what has he got wrong? The level of exports? The new regulations? The cost of the form filling came from studies by KPMG and the University of Nottingham and includes costs if goods have to be held for inspection.

But of course, you know different based on nothing.

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1 hour ago, ecuk268 said:

If you buy something from an EU-based website, you now have to pay custom charges

I'm not sure why you're surprised by this.

If you buy something from a US, Chinese, Japanese, Brazilian etc etc website you also have to pay customs charges. 

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4 minutes ago, ecuk268 said:

So what has he got wrong? The level of exports? The new regulations? The cost of the form filling came from studies by KPMG and the University of Nottingham and includes costs if goods have to be held for inspection.

But of course, you know different based on nothing.

Do you honestly, hand on heart, believe that filling in a form costs in excess of £30 each and every time?

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