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I have a sneaky suspicion that managers and fans don't always look for the same things when deciding who gets in a first 11.

 

If Redmond gets picked constantly you can bet the manager feels he has good reason even if we don't agree. The fact that two managers have favoured Redmond over Boufal suggests there is probably more going in terms of training, attitude or ability to follow the managers instructions that we don't get to see.

 

And Redmond's form hasn't even been as bad as people are making out ( certainly no worse than the rest of the forward line). Redmond has reached full Guly de Prado mode now he could score a hatrick and get three assists in a game and still get slagged off for being ****

 

Having said all that imo Boufal has earned a chance at a start to show what he can do for a full 90.

 

Redmond gets picked constantly by the last 2 managers because they both have a very defensive, keep the ball at all costs philosophy.

 

As for Redmond reaching Guly mode, that's just utter nonsense. The bloke offers us very little. A key attribute of his is his pace and ability to beat a man, he doesn't do any of this (is this the managers fault or the players? I don't know?), people want him to do well, but he fails to produce time and time again.

 

I can understand why many are frustrated with Redmond, he's pretty much had a full season and a start to the next to find form and he just doesn't look up to the level, unfortunately.

 

I find yours and Duckhunters argument completely flawed. You moan that Boufal has no consistency yet seem to advocate playing Redmond ahead of him, even though he's been given chance after chance with very little to show from it.

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Redmond and Tadic both suffer from being predominately one footed and playing on their wrong side. The only reason to play a player on the wrong side is to allow a strong shot tracking across the penalty area as Gabbiadini did against Newcastle. As neither Redmond or Tadic do this there is little point in playing them on their wrong side.

 

They will only take on the defender on their good foot so in my opinion Tadic should be on the left and Redmond on the right if we are to get the best out of them.

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Redmonds last 20 games -

 

:rolleyes: Started in 17

:rolleyes: Scored once

:rolleyes: Assists 2

:rolleyes: Average moan per game 15

 

What is your average moan per day of your time on this forum? Pretty much every single one of your posts is negative drivel moaning about something regarding the club! Cheer up ffs and stop trolling! :mcinnes: :rolleyes:

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Redmonds last 20 games -

 

:rolleyes: Started in 17

:rolleyes: Scored once

:rolleyes: Assists 2

:rolleyes: Average moan per game 15

 

Quality...............lmao.........tell you what else,Bertrand and Redmond dont seem to enjoy playing together anymore or is that just me seeing things differently

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What is your average moan per day of your time on this forum? Pretty much every single one of your posts is negative drivel moaning about something regarding the club! Cheer up ffs and stop trolling! :mcinnes: :rolleyes:

 

Its constant, but as he actually enjoys it we cannot class it as moaning more an expression of his happiness

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Redmond gets picked constantly by the last 2 managers because they both have a very defensive, keep the ball at all costs philosophy.

 

As for Redmond reaching Guly mode, that's just utter nonsense. The bloke offers us very little. A key attribute of his is his pace and ability to beat a man, he doesn't do any of this (is this the managers fault or the players? I don't know?), people want him to do well, but he fails to produce time and time again.

 

I can understand why many are frustrated with Redmond, he's pretty much had a full season and a start to the next to find form and he just doesn't look up to the level, unfortunately.

 

I find yours and Duckhunters argument completely flawed. You moan that Boufal has no consistency yet seem to advocate playing Redmond ahead of him, even though he's been given chance after chance with very little to show from it.

 

 

What part of Boufal deserves a chance is me advocating starting Redmond ahead if Boufal?

 

Secondly I get furstrated by Redmond as much as any one at games when he runs at people he causes problems but to often he turns back and looks for a safe pass. This myth though that has grown up that he offers nothing is just patent rubbish. He was our top scorer in the league last season and has more assists this season than other saints player ( and if tadic could finish he should have a couple more over the last couple of games) and more than Boufal has managed in 29 games.

 

 

I'm not suggesting Redmond is a world beater but he is certainly no worse than the rest of forward line. I don't give a crap if he is on the bench while Boufal starts but I do find this constant need for people to try and make out he is a far worse player than he is bizarre and in the respect he is very much in full Guly mode.

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Redmond and Tadic both suffer from being predominately one footed and playing on their wrong side. The only reason to play a player on the wrong side is to allow a strong shot tracking across the penalty area as Gabbiadini did against Newcastle. As neither Redmond or Tadic do this there is little point in playing them on their wrong side.

 

They will only take on the defender on their good foot so in my opinion Tadic should be on the left and Redmond on the right if we are to get the best out of them.

 

This issue also hinders the effectiveness of playing two strikers. You need to be getting behind defences and putting balls across the face of goal for those two strikers (especially because none of our forwards are particularly strong in the air) to feed off.

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What part of Boufal deserves a chance is me advocating starting Redmond ahead if Boufal?

 

Secondly I get furstrated by Redmond as much as any one at games when he runs at people he causes problems but to often he turns back and looks for a safe pass. This myth though that has grown up that he offers nothing is just patent rubbish. He was our top scorer in the league last season and has more assists this season than other saints player ( and if tadic could finish he should have a couple more over the last couple of games) and more than Boufal has managed in 29 games.

 

 

I'm not suggesting Redmond is a world beater but he is certainly no worse than the rest of forward line. I don't give a crap if he is on the bench while Boufal starts but I do find this constant need for people to try and make out he is a far worse player than he is bizarre and in the respect he is very much in full Guly mode.

 

I think assists are a bit of a misnoma at a low number. Sure, if someone has 17 assists in a season then they are obviously doing something right creatively. But to point to '2 assists' as a sign of being our best hope isn't much to go on. You can have an assist for passing the ball 5 yards before the receipient takes on 3 players and screams one into the top corner, and you might make a brilliant pass only for the forward to miss an open goal.

 

Nothing wrong with stats to support an argument, but I think they need to be a bit more comprehensive - chances created, key passes, assists all together for example. I'm not saying this purely as an anti-Remond comment either - he created some good chances with crosses early in the game vs Newcastle that weren't put away.

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From my perspective, Redmond has been noticeably poorer this season and has been especially poor defensively, such as the Crystal Palace match. That being said, I thought that he looked decent coming on as a sub against West Brom. The booing is really unfortunate and can’t be helping his confidence.

 

If it is a straight choice between Boufal and Redmond (I don’t think it is) I would pick Boufal. I’ve particularly liked the way he’s been getting stuck in defensively during his rare appearances on the pitch. I’d like to see him play in the middle, though.

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I think assists are a bit of a misnoma at a low number. Sure, if someone has 17 assists in a season then they are obviously doing something right creatively. But to point to '2 assists' as a sign of being our best hope isn't much to go on. You can have an assist for passing the ball 5 yards before the receipient takes on 3 players and screams one into the top corner, and you might make a brilliant pass only for the forward to miss an open goal.

 

Nothing wrong with stats to support an argument, but I think they need to be a bit more comprehensive - chances created, key passes, assists all together for example. I'm not saying this purely as an anti-Remond comment either - he created some good chances with crosses early in the game vs Newcastle that weren't put away.

 

 

Fair point but when the rest of the squad have managed one between them I think it shows he has contributed something. Our whole forward line has been pretty disappointing for months so I can't understand why Redmond seems to get singled out as the issue.

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From my perspective, Redmond has been noticeably poorer this season and has been especially poor defensively, such as the Crystal Palace match. That being said, I thought that he looked decent coming on as a sub against West Brom. The booing is really unfortunate and can’t be helping his confidence.

 

If it is a straight choice between Boufal and Redmond (I don’t think it is) I would pick Boufal. I’ve particularly liked the way he’s been getting stuck in defensively during his rare appearances on the pitch. I’d like to see him play in the middle, though.

 

 

A lot of people want to play Boufal in the 10 ( which would be right) so it would most likely be Davis or possibly Tadic that gets dropped rather than Redmond anyway. The obvious replacement for Redmond would be McQueen to my mind.

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Fair point but when the rest of the squad have managed one between them I think it shows he has contributed something. Our whole forward line has been pretty disappointing for months so I can't understand why Redmond seems to get singled out as the issue.

 

My main problem with Redmond is his first instinct always seems to be to go back towards his own goal. I have my doubts about his pace, but if we assume he is indeed a pacey, tricky, player, then I would like to see him playing more to those strengths. He and Tadic both slow the game down, but the difference is I feel Tadic is usually waiting for a better forward option and his dallying on the ball is a result of waiting/looking for options. Of course, that doesn't mean he is always right to do it, and his delay in shooting is infuriating, but the overlapping full back seems to be the only forward option Redmond entertains. He is so hesitant about running AT defences, yet never hesitates to offload it backwards.

 

It doesn't mean he never does anything good, of course he has his moments. When he played for Norwich and Birmingham I thought it was quite common to see him cutting in and unleashing a shot, but he doesn't do that very much now either. Maybe if he played on the right he'd take defenders on a bit more, and maybe he is simply following Pellegrino's cautious instructions. If so, that is a much more concerning issue.

 

Just found what Alex McLeish said about Redmond after his debut: "He set it alight. I know we never had a full house, but the fans that were there warmed to him. His performance was very bright, quick, he got a couple of shots away. And it excited me. It was a really bright spark for us. Has he got a big future? It looks like it. He's electric. He's a right winger but he showed his versatility coming in off the left and going in and hitting shots. He was a handful for Rochdale. It was good to see somebody with a little bit of pace going by defenders."

 

So many things in there suggest the player he should be for us, and a lot of it doesn't show at the moment.

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Fair point but when the rest of the squad have managed one between them I think it shows he has contributed something. Our whole forward line has been pretty disappointing for months so I can't understand why Redmond seems to get singled out as the issue.

 

Probably helps that the rest have a history of better performances and stats - Redmonds recent performances and return is not far off his career average. So both recent and long term he's just bang average.

 

Redmond has also benefited from exhaustive starts + minutes and a variety of positions - hes ultimately failed to shine despite being given more opportunities than most of the squad.

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My main problem with Redmond is his first instinct always seems to be to go back towards his own goal. I have my doubts about his pace, but if we assume he is indeed a pacey, tricky, player, then I would like to see him playing more to those strengths. He and Tadic both slow the game down, but the difference is I feel Tadic is usually waiting for a better forward option and his dallying on the ball is a result of waiting/looking for options. Of course, that doesn't mean he is always right to do it, and his delay in shooting is infuriating, but the overlapping full back seems to be the only forward option Redmond entertains. He is so hesitant about running AT defences, yet never hesitates to offload it backwards.

 

It doesn't mean he never does anything good, of course he has his moments. When he played for Norwich and Birmingham I thought it was quite common to see him cutting in and unleashing a shot, but he doesn't do that very much now either. Maybe if he played on the right he'd take defenders on a bit more, and maybe he is simply following Pellegrino's cautious instructions. If so, that is a much more concerning issue.

 

Just found what Alex McLeish said about Redmond after his debut: "He set it alight. I know we never had a full house, but the fans that were there warmed to him. His performance was very bright, quick, he got a couple of shots away. And it excited me. It was a really bright spark for us. Has he got a big future? It looks like it. He's electric. He's a right winger but he showed his versatility coming in off the left and going in and hitting shots. He was a handful for Rochdale. It was good to see somebody with a little bit of pace going by defenders."

 

So many things in there suggest the player he should be for us, and a lot of it doesn't show at the moment.

 

I think it was Hoedt's signing video that accidentally featured some player sprint times. Redmond isn't any quicker over most distances than Tadic or even JWP. I won't speculate where the assumption that he must be quick comes from, but neither the leaked stats, nor watching him rarely outpace anyone during the course of a game, argue pretty strongly that he isn't really very fast at all comparatively.

 

And as for Boufal, the like-for-like argument with Redmond is a red herring. As others have said, he needs to be played centrally, not on the wing. If MP needs the assurance of another water carrier on the field, then Redmond or Tadic should make way for Davis or JWP to tuck in on the right.

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I think it was Hoedt's signing video that accidentally featured some player sprint times. Redmond isn't any quicker over most distances than Tadic or even JWP. I won't speculate where the assumption that he must be quick comes from, but neither the leaked stats, nor watching him rarely outpace anyone during the course of a game, argue pretty strongly that he isn't really very fast at all comparatively.

 

And as for Boufal, the like-for-like argument with Redmond is a red herring. As others have said, he needs to be played centrally, not on the wing. If MP needs the assurance of another water carrier on the field, then Redmond or Tadic should make way for Davis or JWP to tuck in on the right.

 

Are you feeling ok, verlaine? :lol:

 

Yes, the figures from that video that mcbendy (?) put up on here certainly didn't show him to be super fast, though after my earlier post about stats I'm reluctant to jump on it as "conclusive"... at the very least, it's open to debate.

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Also, I don't know how many of our games you actually get to watch live, but Boufal does work for the team - If you actually watch, he tracks back and follows his man a lot more than Tadic does.

 

 

Oh yes, the old arm chair fan jibe. I get to every home game and half the away games, only missed palace away so far this season ( and watched that on TV).

 

Anyway, you wouldn’t need to watch many games to see his contribution, because 2 people who know a damn sight more about football than you or me, who also see him day in day out, deemed him not good enough play many minutes in a side crying out for goals and creativity. Says quite a lot, don’t you think.

 

 

 

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

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Oh yes, the old arm chair fan jibe. I get to every home game and half the away games, only missed palace away so far this season ( and watched that on TV).

 

Anyway, you wouldn’t need to watch many games to see his contribution, because 2 people who know a damn sight more about football than you or me, who also see him day in day out, deemed him not good enough play many minutes in a side crying out for goals and creativity. Says quite a lot, don’t you think.

 

 

 

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

Wasn't a jibe, it was a genuine question.

 

I pointed out further up the thread, yes 2 managers haven't rated him, but them same 2 managers are of a very defensive mindset and want to keep the ball at all costs. Boufal just doesn't suit that style.

 

Jose Mourinho, arguably one of the best managers in the world for whatever reason didn't rate / see the potential in Lukaku and De Bruyne who are now arguably 2 of the leagues best players. People make mistakes...

 

I'd suggest the fact Boufal isn't playing say's more about our managers than his ability.

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Oh yes, the old arm chair fan jibe. I get to every home game and half the away games, only missed palace away so far this season ( and watched that on TV).

 

Anyway, you wouldn’t need to watch many games to see his contribution, because 2 people who know a damn sight more about football than you or me, who also see him day in day out, deemed him not good enough play many minutes in a side crying out for goals and creativity. Says quite a lot, don’t you think.

 

 

 

 

 

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Yeah Branfoot showed how well that worked.

 

Is football about running backwards and stopping goals or going forwards and scoring them ?

 

They are both right but when you lean too much one way you negate the other and for the last season and a bit we have leaned too much on the defensive side as new managers in a league try to keep it tight to not put themselves under pressure.

 

The area Puel failed at was once we were over the hump of the season was not dropping a gear and opening this baby up to see what we could do.

 

Poch and Koeman were more open to going forward as the first line of defence in my opinion.

 

Where we are at now is a manager who likes predictability on his players so he can play formations and set up the team specifically. The issue is that those players cannot breakdown what the opposition is doing to stop us quickly enough to create/scores goals enough, so do we stick (and hope it works out) or twist and add Boufal into the mix knowing he is unpredictable but that will mess up the dynamic of how the other team sets up and create more space/chances for him and others.

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Yeah Branfoot showed how well that worked.

 

Is football about running backwards and stopping goals or going forwards and scoring them ?

 

They are both right but when you lean too much one way you negate the other and for the last season and a bit we have leaned too much on the defensive side as new managers in a league try to keep it tight to not put themselves under pressure.

 

The area Puel failed at was once we were over the hump of the season was not dropping a gear and opening this baby up to see what we could do.

 

Poch and Koeman were more open to going forward as the first line of defence in my opinion.

 

Where we are at now is a manager who likes predictability on his players so he can play formations and set up the team specifically. The issue is that those players cannot breakdown what the opposition is doing to stop us quickly enough to create/scores goals enough, so do we stick (and hope it works out) or twist and add Boufal into the mix knowing he is unpredictable but that will mess up the dynamic of how the other team sets up and create more space/chances for him and others.

 

Koeman was defensively solid, but he wasn't afraid to lose possession if on the counter attack - I've no doubt Koeman would have played someone like Boufal, as he's the type of player (like Mane) who can turn Defense into attack very quickly.

 

Unfortunately for Puel and to a degree Pellegrino, he preferred a slow possession based build up, so at times we could counter, he would rather we played it round at the back / in the middle of the park for a couple of minutes to conserve energy. Which is very easy to play against.

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The area Puel failed at was once we were over the hump of the season was not dropping a gear and opening this baby up to see what we could do

 

Take a look at last season's fixtures and let me know where the opportunity to do that was, yeah?

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I think assists are a bit of a misnoma at a low number. Sure, if someone has 17 assists in a season then they are obviously doing something right creatively. But to point to '2 assists' as a sign of being our best hope isn't much to go on. You can have an assist for passing the ball 5 yards before the receipient takes on 3 players and screams one into the top corner, and you might make a brilliant pass only for the forward to miss an open goal.

 

Nothing wrong with stats to support an argument, but I think they need to be a bit more comprehensive - chances created, key passes, assists all together for example. I'm not saying this purely as an anti-Remond comment either - he created some good chances with crosses early in the game vs Newcastle that weren't put away.

 

misnomer

mɪsˈnəʊmə/

noun

noun: misnomer; plural noun: misnomers

 

a wrong or inaccurate name or designation.

"‘King crab’ is a misnomer—these creatures are not crustaceans at all"

a wrong or inaccurate use of a name or term.

"to call this ‘neighbourhood policing’ would be a misnomer"

 

The argument is otherwise ok, but states the obvious and shows that the over-use of the word 'statistics' for 'opinion' almost has become trite. Not that I say that's you and I agree with your post and most of your recent ones. It was just you made such a howler with 'misnoma' that I had to do a double-take on the argument you made and it was annoying to see.

 

Anyway, back to Boufal/Redmond.

 

Play Boufal. Give him some games and decent game time. We know what Redmond can do/does and it hasn't changed much. He wouldn't have scored the goal that Boufal did nor would he have picked out those two passes that Boufal did.

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misnomer

mɪsˈnəʊmə/

noun

noun: misnomer; plural noun: misnomers

 

a wrong or inaccurate name or designation.

"‘King crab’ is a misnomer—these creatures are not crustaceans at all"

a wrong or inaccurate use of a name or term.

"to call this ‘neighbourhood policing’ would be a misnomer"

 

The argument is otherwise ok, but states the obvious and shows that the over-use of the word 'statistics' for 'opinion' almost has become trite. Not that I say that's you and I agree with your post and most of your recent ones. It was just you made such a howler with 'misnoma' that I had to do a double-take on the argument you made and it was annoying to see.

 

Anyway, back to Boufal/Redmond.

 

Play Boufal. Give him some games and decent game time. We know what Redmond can do/does and it hasn't changed much. He wouldn't have scored the goal that Boufal did nor would he have picked out those two passes that Boufal did.

 

Ok thanks, don't know why I spelt it like that! I always thought it meant "a misleading stat" or similar. A certain irony in using the wrong word and instead using a word that means using the wrong word... “Howler” is a bit strong though, maybe a Yoshida mistake rather than a Forster or Hooiveld. Misnomer is still “misleading” but just about a label rather than fact/statistic.

Edited by mrfahaji
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From my perspective, Redmond has been noticeably poorer this season and has been especially poor defensively, such as the Crystal Palace match. That being said, I thought that he looked decent coming on as a sub against West Brom. The booing is really unfortunate and can’t be helping his confidence.

 

If it is a straight choice between Boufal and Redmond (I don’t think it is) I would pick Boufal. I’ve particularly liked the way he’s been getting stuck in defensively during his rare appearances on the pitch. I’d like to see him play in the middle, though.

Very good summary, I agree

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When you see that and then realise he was given the equivalent of just 11 games last season....

 

Criminally underused - hes been given the full 90 just 3x since joining us.

 

In the same period Redmond has been given the full 90 in 36 games.... Shocking

 

Injured a fair bit too pal. Do you think Puel's going to drop Mahrez?

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Piece in this Weeks 10 things Guardian article

 

8) A rare starting chance for Boufal?

While Soufiane Boufal’s solo goal against West Brom last weekend was a slalom of rare beauty, his subsequent rage of defiance in the face of manager was rather less edifying. Restricted to just five Premier League appearances (one start and no full games) this season his frustration was perhaps understandable, but giving it the impassioned Big ’Un in front of a manager on the back of just one admittedly wonderful goal was probably ill-advised. Mauricio Pellegrino has since said the one-time club record signing must “wait for his opportunity” but can scarcely leave him out after last weekend’s heroics. As impressive as his goal was, should he get picked to play against Brighton, Boufal ought to remember they are unlikely to be as charitable as their West Brom counterparts who made him look like Pelé. BG

 

https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2017/oct/27/premier-league-10-things-to-look-out-for-this-weekend

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mrfahaji said "When he played for Norwich and Birmingham I thought it was quite common to see him cutting in and unleashing a shot, "

 

No, I'm afraid not, I saw him a lot at Norwich and it was frustratingly rare for him to do this, his finest moment was when he did this and scored against us that time! But it certainly wasn't common; Norwich fans are not at all surprised about what Saints fans are now saying about him.

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Piece in this Weeks 10 things Guardian article

 

8) A rare starting chance for Boufal?

While Soufiane Boufal’s solo goal against West Brom last weekend was a slalom of rare beauty, his subsequent rage of defiance in the face of manager was rather less edifying. Restricted to just five Premier League appearances (one start and no full games) this season his frustration was perhaps understandable, but giving it the impassioned Big ’Un in front of a manager on the back of just one admittedly wonderful goal was probably ill-advised. Mauricio Pellegrino has since said the one-time club record signing must “wait for his opportunity” but can scarcely leave him out after last weekend’s heroics. As impressive as his goal was, should he get picked to play against Brighton, Boufal ought to remember they are unlikely to be as charitable as their West Brom counterparts who made him look like Pelé. BG

 

https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2017/oct/27/premier-league-10-things-to-look-out-for-this-weekend

 

Lets take the opinion of someone who plays with him day in day out:

 

"He is a sensational footballer. He is lacking a little bit of consistency at the moment but I have to say that he is up there as one of the best technical players that I have ever worked with. He can do anything he wants with the ball"

 

Our very own, MANOLO GABBIADINI.

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Lets take the opinion of someone who plays with him day in day out:

 

"He is a sensational footballer. He is lacking a little bit of consistency at the moment but I have to say that he is up there as one of the best technical players that I have ever worked with. He can do anything he wants with the ball"

 

Our very own, MANOLO GABBIADINI.

 

We could also consider the opinion of somene else who works with him day in day out: the manager.

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What is your average moan per day of your time on this forum? Pretty much every single one of your posts is negative drivel moaning about something regarding the club! Cheer up ffs and stop trolling! :mcinnes: :rolleyes:

 

MLG criticises yet another poster and contributes zilch. I agree with much of H's comments, so up yours MLG. Take that pointless insult to add to your 10,000's.

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Superb against West Brom when playing down the middle. So only natural that you’d then start him stuck out on the wing...

 

You wouldn’t play a CB at full back, why do it with an attacking midfielder. Then he got his token 65 minute ‘chance’ and to rub salt in the wound he gets hooked and Tadic gets put central, exactly where Boufal should’ve been! He also won the free kick for the goal by actually running at his marker.

 

Tadic is ****.

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Superb against West Brom when playing down the middle. So only natural that you’d then start him stuck out on the wing...

 

You wouldn’t play a CB at full back, why do it with an attacking midfielder. Then he got his token 65 minute ‘chance’ and to rub salt in the wound he gets hooked and Tadic gets put central, exactly where Boufal should’ve been! He also won the free kick for the goal by actually running at his marker.

 

Tadic is ****.

 

 

Didn't Koeman play Yoshida as a full back...

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