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2 minutes ago, aintforever said:

He’s always just been a back up keeper, problem is some maniac gave Forster a massive contract so we’re stuck until he sees it out.

At least Forster has been solid every time he has played over the last season or so. McCarthy is the much more error prone keeper. 

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11 minutes ago, Harry_SFC said:

At least Forster has been solid every time he has played over the last season or so. McCarthy is the much more error prone keeper. 

I would probably give Fraser a go but I think it’s a classic case of a player seeming better the more they don’t play. I still have vivid memories of him standing rooted on the line whilst someone heads it in from 6 yards, or going down like a falling Redwood as a shot goes underneath him. 

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Has McCarthy actually signed a new contract then?

I hope we have at least slashed his pay by half if we have the intention of making him our 2nd choice. 

If we weren't to offer either him or Forster a contract, how many takers would either have at a PL club on their current salaries? 

 

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6 minutes ago, nta786 said:

Has McCarthy actually signed a new contract then?

I hope we have at least slashed his pay by half if we have the intention of making him our 2nd choice. 

If we weren't to offer either him or Forster a contract, how many takers would either have at a PL club on their current salaries? 

 

I suspect we would have. He's fine as a back up imo, but as a starter he will cost us points like today!!

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Pathetic today, but not surprising because he's a chamoionship level keeper at best. If we can get a better keeper in January then we need to do it because McCarthy will cost us alot more points than he will save us. Could be the difference between a relegation scrap and 12-14th place

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4 hours ago, nta786 said:

Has McCarthy actually signed a new contract then?

I hope we have at least slashed his pay by half if we have the intention of making him our 2nd choice. 

If we weren't to offer either him or Forster a contract, how many takers would either have at a PL club on their current salaries? 

 

Exactly. Any contract offer would be from a Championship side at best or back up Prem keeper. If we offer anything over 25k per week would be financial lunacy. Prob why we have decided to keep him rather than Forster as he would want much more.

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It was very clear to Saints fans that we needed to recruit a keeper over the summer and you have to hope that it was clear to Hassenhutl and the recruitment team, also.  The current young Saints team has all the makings of giving us a rare spell of joy, but the kind of mistakes that McCarthy is regularly capable of will frustrate and unsettle his teammates as well as supporters.  If there is money in the kitty (which apparently there is), a new, experienced, first team goalkeeper is the priority in the January window, a late Christmas present for us all.

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22 minutes ago, Miltonaggro said:

It was very clear to Saints fans that we needed to recruit a keeper over the summer and you have to hope that it was clear to Hassenhutl and the recruitment team, also.  The current young Saints team has all the makings of giving us a rare spell of joy, but the kind of mistakes that McCarthy is regularly capable of will frustrate and unsettle his teammates as well as supporters.  If there is money in the kitty (which apparently there is), a new, experienced, first team goalkeeper is the priority in the January window, a late Christmas present for us all.

Apart from a brief spell from Artur Boruc, Saints haven't had a quality keeper since Niemi.

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15 hours ago, aintforever said:

I would probably give Fraser a go but I think it’s a classic case of a player seeming better the more they don’t play. I still have vivid memories of him standing rooted on the line whilst someone heads it in from 6 yards, or going down like a falling Redwood as a shot goes underneath him. 

Let's hope our CBs can win every single header in the six yard box and no one shoots low. To be fair, he has performed pretty well in the cup games, but IMO we need two new keepers not one.

 

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59 minutes ago, austsaint said:

Apart from a brief spell from Artur Boruc, Saints haven't had a quality keeper since Niemi.

True that. Paul Jones was better than we have now, he wasn’t great but okay. However when Niemi came in it made such a difference, great shot stopper but also had an calmness and composure about him, did the simple things well, rarely let in a goal you’d think he should have saved. (I’ve blanked out that game at Fratton Park) 

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6 minutes ago, Wade Garrett said:

Absolutely criminal to get beaten at his near post for the first.

His technique for the second was similar to an 18 stone 45 year old playing vets football.  He showed all the athleticism of a sack of spuds.

Forster is definitely the better keeper out of the two.

 

 

The more you see it the worse it looks. Really poor for both goals. 

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Macca didn't cover himself in glory yesterday but he's won us more points this season than he's lost and on the whole is a solid if unspectacular keeper. They all make mistakes but obviously due to their position they come under more scrutiny. Last time out Allison made a couple of howlers that cost his team points (not for the first time) and De Gea regularly has an error in him, but as with McCarthy the good generally outweighs the bad.

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Reverted to type. 
 

Keep seeing people say “look at all his clean sheets this season” 

We’ve kept those despite him, not because of him, he’s a backup goalkeeper, was when he signed him, should still be now. 

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29 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

There’s a world of difference between sometimes and most times.

There's also a world of difference in the footballing ability between someone who is a footballer and someone who is a goalkeeper. They are 2 completely different jobs.

You get the odd keeper who is very proficient with their feet but most really aren't.

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2 hours ago, Turkish said:

True that. Paul Jones was better than we have now, he wasn’t great but okay. However when Niemi came in it made such a difference, great shot stopper but also had an calmness and composure about him, did the simple things well, rarely let in a goal you’d think he should have saved. (I’ve blanked out that game at Fratton Park) 

Don't forget Pompey signed him

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I know its hard to look past the two goals, but one thing that was noticeable was McCarthy's willingness to come off his line to claim crosses. He made a complete horlicks of it for one corner, flapping at thin air and they may well have scored. He did though come for a couple of others that helped totally diffuse a couple of attacks. Nothing outstanding, but some keepers, and I am thinking about Forster here, simply don't come deep for those. You may not concede, you may not even be able to point a finger at the keeper if you do concede, but at the top level, managers do notice these things. Keepers not putting themselves out there to help prevent situations.  Its not as obvious as glaring mistakes, but it does matter.

Got to say that there does seem to be a lot of errors by keepers. Are these balls moving faster than ever?  Check out Darlow's pathetic attempt at stopping Toney's goal.

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4 hours ago, austsaint said:

Apart from a brief spell from Artur Boruc, Saints haven't had a quality keeper since Niemi.

never felt safer than when we had those two in nets. Both made so many outstanding saves too. Even when Boruc fucked up at Arsenal I felt that was more of a one off. As well as Forster did, I really didn't think Boric needed replacing.

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I don't know what needs to happen for people to actually see that McCarthy is rubbish. Every time he makes a decent save it seems like his actual performance level for several years is forgotten. Every single keeper thats had a couple of Premier league seasons has made some good saves. Yet many just fade away back to lower leagues. Angus Gunn started pretty well and made some good saves too.

McCarthy concedes weirdly soft goals you just very rarely see in other teams games. Not the big howlers, but the poor positioning, the slow reactions, the failure to cover the near post, the looking terrified half the time and making the goal huge for the striker. Norwich wasn't an anomaly. That was just his time at Saints. Villa/Watford/Leeds weren't hugely different, good spells we didn't capitalise on but we defended better and limited the oppsition to just a couple of chances across the three wins. Any of those could have gone the other way, same as Norwich could have been another 1-0 with some luck/a keeper. 

We haven't had a brilliant keeper since Niemi, we all know that. Paul Jones was decent before that, certaintly a premier league level keeper. Boruc was good enough for our level then too. Forster had faults but organised things better than most and was part of our most successful sides in decades. Yes he had an excellent defence and DMs in front but he still did a decent job. Since he's come back from Celtic, he hasn't looked far off that level. When called on this season he's been excellent again. I lost a lot of faith in Ralph opening day when McCarthy was back in. It's a horrible blind spot he has for keepers and it's going to cost us a lot of points again. 

What evidence is there that we'll learn? Forster will go for free. McCarthy will stay and no doubt be first choice next season. We were linked with the english youth keeper at Ajax the other day. Can see us recruiting someone like that as back up. It's a position I'd like to actually spend money and get experience and talent. 

Fascinated who those defending him all the time think is worse in the premier league as a starting keeper. This season or last. I can't think of anyone. Of the three promoted sides, Foster, Krul and Raya have all shown far more talent and achieved way more through their careers. Last year Johnstone, Areola and Ramsdale got relegated, yet all are far, far beyond McCarthy in ability. So who is there and why do we expect to stay up with a keeper that poor?

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I’m not sure anyone is defended AM as such, just we have 2 shit keepers until next season, where AM is likely to drop down to back up keeper, and we will get a new first choice stopper in.

This is the situation we are in, maybe we will move for someone in January, thinking Sam Johnston of WBA with only 6 months of his deal left.

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Spot on. When you look at McCarthy's career before he came here, there was nothing whatsoever to indicate he'd be a first choice Premier League goalkeeper. His reflexes always looked a fraction of a second too slow. and, of course, he's always had that glaring weakness at the near post.  He wouldn't even be first choice at a Championship side.

He appeared to find his level at Yeovil:

Youth career
Wimbledon
–2006 Wycombe Wanderers
2006–2007 Reading
Senior career
Years Team Apps 
2007–2014 Reading 70 
2007 → Woking (loan) 1 
2008 → Cambridge United (loan) 1 
2008 → Team Bath (loan) 2 
2009 → Aldershot Town (loan) 4 
2009–2010 → Yeovil Town (loan) 44 
2010 → Brentford (loan) 3 
2011–2012 → Leeds United (loan) 6 
2012 → Ipswich Town (loan) 10 
2014–2015 Queens Park Rangers 3 
2015–2016 Crystal Palace 7 

 

The stats show that Forster is a vastly superior goalkeeper to McCarthy. We concede fewer goals per game, keep more clean sheets and win more games when he plays. They are not even close.

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20 minutes ago, adriansfc said:

I don't know what needs to happen for people to actually see that McCarthy is rubbish. Every time he makes a decent save it seems like his actual performance level for several years is forgotten. Every single keeper thats had a couple of Premier league seasons has made some good saves. Yet many just fade away back to lower leagues. Angus Gunn started pretty well and made some good saves too.

McCarthy concedes weirdly soft goals you just very rarely see in other teams games. Not the big howlers, but the poor positioning, the slow reactions, the failure to cover the near post, the looking terrified half the time and making the goal huge for the striker. Norwich wasn't an anomaly. That was just his time at Saints. Villa/Watford/Leeds weren't hugely different, good spells we didn't capitalise on but we defended better and limited the oppsition to just a couple of chances across the three wins. Any of those could have gone the other way, same as Norwich could have been another 1-0 with some luck/a keeper. 

We haven't had a brilliant keeper since Niemi, we all know that. Paul Jones was decent before that, certaintly a premier league level keeper. Boruc was good enough for our level then too. Forster had faults but organised things better than most and was part of our most successful sides in decades. Yes he had an excellent defence and DMs in front but he still did a decent job. Since he's come back from Celtic, he hasn't looked far off that level. When called on this season he's been excellent again. I lost a lot of faith in Ralph opening day when McCarthy was back in. It's a horrible blind spot he has for keepers and it's going to cost us a lot of points again. 

What evidence is there that we'll learn? Forster will go for free. McCarthy will stay and no doubt be first choice next season. We were linked with the english youth keeper at Ajax the other day. Can see us recruiting someone like that as back up. It's a position I'd like to actually spend money and get experience and talent. 

Fascinated who those defending him all the time think is worse in the premier league as a starting keeper. This season or last. I can't think of anyone. Of the three promoted sides, Foster, Krul and Raya have all shown far more talent and achieved way more through their careers. Last year Johnstone, Areola and Ramsdale got relegated, yet all are far, far beyond McCarthy in ability. So who is there and why do we expect to stay up with a keeper that poor?

Paul Jones? I was at Liverpool in 1999 when we lost 7-1 and we Saints fans were chanting “dodgy keeper” and at Tottenham when we lost 7-2 and he wasn’t very good then. Mail Taylor was a much better keeper but Dave Jones had promised Paul that he would bring him along from Stockport County.

Those who get upset over the occasional 9-0 ought to have been around in those days.

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7 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Paul Jones? I was at Liverpool in 1999 when we lost 7-1 and we Saints fans were chanting “dodgy keeper” and at Tottenham when we lost 7-2 and he wasn’t very good then. Mail Taylor was a much better keeper but Dave Jones had promised Paul that he would bring him along from Stockport County.

Those who get upset over the occasional 9-0 ought to have been around in those days.

You are absolutely right. Jones had a great half a season when he was the best keeper in the league then made a couple of howlers and was dreadful after that. Maik Taylor was indeed a much better keeper and being younger would have solved the keeper issue for years.

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19 minutes ago, Billy the Kidd said:

where AM is likely to drop down to back up keeper, and we will get a new first choice stopper in.

 

You think?

There’s absolutely nothing in the management of the goal keeping situation that should give anyone any confidence that anyone knows what they’re doing. It wouldn’t surprise me if they signed some nipper to back up McCarthy. 

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14 minutes ago, Kenilworthy said:

You are absolutely right. Jones had a great half a season when he was the best keeper in the league then made a couple of howlers and was dreadful after that. Maik Taylor was indeed a much better keeper and being younger would have solved the keeper issue for years.

Gong back over the years, the Saints goalkeeper McCarthy reminds me most of was Dave MacLaren and the one Forster reminds me most of was Campbell Forsyth before he broke his leg. Of course, our best goalkeepers were Shilton and Niemi but of the top flight goalkeepers we've had in the 60 years I've been watching Saints, Forster is one of the better ones and McCarthy is one of the worst.

The goalkeepers I would have signed in recent years would have been David Raya after his appearance for Blackburn in the U21 Premier League Cup Final at St Mary's in 2015, when you could see he was something special, and, more recently, after the way he played in the Euros, Lukáš Hrádecký, both of whom we could easily have afforded. 

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32 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

You think?

There’s absolutely nothing in the management of the goal keeping situation that should give anyone any confidence that anyone knows what they’re doing. It wouldn’t surprise me if they signed some nipper to back up McCarthy. 

I do think that, no way will AM be first choice next season. It may be the summer, or hoping in Jan, but cant believe for 1 second AM will be first choice next season.

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5 hours ago, Chez said:

never felt safer than when we had those two in nets. Both made so many outstanding saves too. Even when Boruc fucked up at Arsenal I felt that was more of a one off. As well as Forster did, I really didn't think Boric needed replacing.

Yes I agree. It was a strange signing to spend that much on a keeper when we already had a perfectly good one in Boruc. 

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1 hour ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Paul Jones? I was at Liverpool in 1999 when we lost 7-1 and we Saints fans were chanting “dodgy keeper” and at Tottenham when we lost 7-2 and he wasn’t very good then. Mail Taylor was a much better keeper but Dave Jones had promised Paul that he would bring him along from Stockport County.

Those who get upset over the occasional 9-0 ought to have been around in those days.

You know I’d forgotten about that. We’d not long signed Taylor and he looked good, then Dave Jones came in and bought Paul Jones. He was okay but as is said above Niemi was a huge upgraded. Agree Taylor was better than Jones too.

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9 hours ago, Chez said:

never felt safer than when we had those two in nets. Both made so many outstanding saves too. Even when Boruc fucked up at Arsenal I felt that was more of a one off. As well as Forster did, I really didn't think Boric needed replacing.

Seemed like Boruc had a falling out with Koeman from memory.    Like you say with AB, and certainly with Niemi you had that feeling of safety that near side post clangers and the like wouldn't happen which you didn't, don't get with McCarthy, Forster, Kelvin, Bialkowski etc.     There was that embarrassing goal at Stoke though when Boruc misjudged the wind from his opposite number's goal kick.   🥴

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