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Fraser Forster

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That figure suggests Celtic are paying nothing toward his wages, and we are paying the lot, the whole £70k/wk. Is that the case?

I don't believe we would have done that deal. We're a compassionate employer having funded his sick leave, but I can't imagine we would still be paying the full wage while he is at Celtic. Pure hypothesis - maybe Celtic pay £20k, we pay £50k?

The "whatever we can get" needs to be a significant clawback on our costs in the last 2 years.

Might be right if they paid us a substantial loan fee instead.

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That figure suggests Celtic are paying nothing toward his wages, and we are paying the lot, the whole £70k/wk. Is that the case?

I don't believe we would have done that deal. We're a compassionate employer having funded his sick leave, but I can't imagine we would still be paying the full wage while he is at Celtic. Pure hypothesis - maybe Celtic pay £20k, we pay £50k?

The "whatever we can get" needs to be a significant clawback on our costs in the last 2 years.

We can hold out for a significant clawback on our losses and end up keeping him till the end of his contract, and lose a whole lot more.

 

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Angus Gunn doesn't seem to be totally in favour with Ralph. Do you think Ralph may want to retain Forster and have him compete with Macca?

I guess we'll make a decision at the end of the season, whether to retain or look for offers on FF. Lots of talk that FF will take a wage drop, but no talk about what Celtic will give to us to make it happen.

Edited by the saint in winchester

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Angus Gunn doesn't seem to be totally in favour with Ralph. Do you think Ralph may want to retain Forster and have him compete with Macca?

I guess we'll make a decision at the end of the season, whether to retain or look for offers on FF. Lots of talk that FF will take a wage drop, but no talk about what Celtic will give to us to make it happen.

well he should take a wage drop now

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Fraser back to his old self last night! We are well rid of him.

 

Except the club aren't because he's only on loan until end of the season and there is no deal in place with Celtic yet for a permanent move. Two years more of his enormous contract extension that stupid fool now at the FA gave him. Bet Fraser's agent couldn't believe his luck.

 

Low fee or no fee and Celtic pick up the wages instead of a bigger fee is the only way out for Saints. And slap themselves around the head for not sacking Reed after the January 2017 transfer window debacle.

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Fraser back to his old self last night! We are well rid of him.

 

Why would you say that?

 

I dont think any of the goals were down to him

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Fraser back to his old self last night! We are well rid of him.

 

Not directly him but as usual, 3 shots, 3 goals.

 

Only saves things if it hits him mostly.

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On 2/28/2020 at 7:58 AM, Valesaint said:

Fraser back to his old self last night! We are well rid of him.

Move on buddy, move on!

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Taken from the BBC Gossip columnTelegraph:

 

Quote

Celtic will consider a move for Joe Hart, 33, afterhis release by Burnley, should the Scottish champions fail to get fellow English goalkeeper Fraser Forster, 32, on another loan from Southampton. 

 

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10 hours ago, Badger said:

Taken from the BBC Gossip columnTelegraph:

 

 

Worth noting that article goes on to say: "Saints manager Ralph Hasenhuttl is set to look at Forster in pre-season as he assesses his goalkeeping options, with Alex McCarthy now ahead of Angus Gunn in the pecking order but guilty of an error this week against Arsenal". 

 

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1 hour ago, benali-shorts said:

Worth noting that article goes on to say: "Saints manager Ralph Hasenhuttl is set to look at Forster in pre-season as he assesses his goalkeeping options, with Alex McCarthy now ahead of Angus Gunn in the pecking order but guilty of an error this week against Arsenal". 

 

Please no.... 

Even having a had a good season up there I don' think I can face another season of Forster failing to get down to low shots etc.

Can't believe Ralph needs pre-season to assess them, and not realise the need for repacements. Unless he knows there won't be any ££.

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31 minutes ago, Badger said:

Please no.... 

Even having a had a good season up there I don' think I can face another season of Forster failing to get down to low shots etc.

Can't believe Ralph needs pre-season to assess them, and not realise the need for repacements. Unless he knows there won't be any ££.

No point us publicly briefing we think he's dross and he won't have a look in if we hope to get a fee for him. Instantly weakens any negotiating position when we already have a poor hand as clubs know we've got plenty on big wages we don't want to pay.

 

If honest I think between Gunn and McCarthy we are 'okay' and there are certainly areas on the squad I would rather we focused investing on particularly if funds are going to be as tight as we expect.

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52 minutes ago, UpweySaint said:

No point us publicly briefing we think he's dross and he won't have a look in if we hope to get a fee for him. Instantly weakens any negotiating position when we already have a poor hand as clubs know we've got plenty on big wages we don't want to pay.

 

If honest I think between Gunn and McCarthy we are 'okay' and there are certainly areas on the squad I would rather we focused investing on particularly if funds are going to be as tight as we expect.

To be fair to McCarthy he’s a decent back up and I guess they were hoping Gunn would step up to the plate this season. 
 

 Personally, I’d chuck Gunn in for the remainder of the season, before reassessing in the close season. We’re pretty much safe and there’s no crowd pressure to deal with, if he struggles with that we may need to reconsider our options. However, I certainly don’t want Herman Munster anywhere near the side. 

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I think there is a good keeper in him. As I think the same for all our keepers.

The big question then must be, is it the coaching?

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The reality is that we are stuck with 2 out of 3 for the forseeable future. Forster feels the most shiftable and probably on highest wage too but we no doubt don' t want to appear publicly desperate.

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2 hours ago, Batman said:

Celtic reportedly taking a look at free agent, Joe Hart

How about we let Celtic have FF cheap, £5M or less as long as we don't cover any wages - after all he's been quoted as willing to take a salary cut to sign for them permanently, and get Joe Hart on a free for a year on less money than FF and see how he does? After all he was an England regular not so long ago and should be able to pass sound experience to AG and AM. 

 

 

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If Fraser Forster has problems then where does that leave Joe Hart? Officially past it for most of the last decade. Just trying to figure out when. Four years to the day since Iceland beat England but wasn't he ditched by City a while earlier?

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19 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

To be fair to McCarthy he’s a decent back up and I guess they were hoping Gunn would step up to the plate this season. 
 

 Personally, I’d chuck Gunn in for the remainder of the season, before reassessing in the close season. We’re pretty much safe and there’s no crowd pressure to deal with, if he struggles with that we may need to reconsider our options. However, I certainly don’t want Herman Munster anywhere near the side

No danger of that, I'm much too old.

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Forster rumour #68 of the day:

This one from Chief Scottish Sun reporter:

Quote

 

Celtic looking to bring Fraser Forster back on PERMANENT deal from Southampton

CELTIC could be ready to break the bank to sign Fraser Forster on a permanent deal.

Parkhead chiefs are looking at potentially BUYING the former England No 1 from Southampton.

Until now Celts have been in talks over extending his loan deal that ends on Tuesday.

However, SunSport understands the nine-in-a-row champions are looking at what it would take to sign Forster for keeps.

The 32-year-old still has two years to go on his megabucks deal but Saints are looking to cut costs and that’s seen Parkhead chiefs step up negotiations in the past week.

Joe Hart has been linked with the Hoops as Forster’s possible replacement and it’s understood his agents have put his name to Neil Lennon’s side.

But the Celtic boss’s No 1 priority is striking a deal for Forster, who is also keen to play his part in the ten-in-a-row campaign.

Lennon is also eager to land attacker Mohamed Elyounoussi and he’s part of the ongoing talks.

Saints are interested in Olivier Ntcham but it’s not yet certain the French midfielder will be part of any deal.

Meanwhile, Celtic WON’T be moving for winger Ryan Fraser as he eyes a six-figure weekly pay packet to stay in England.

Bookies have made Celts shock favourites to snap up free agent Fraser but personal terms rule that out.

Arsenal, Spurs and champions Liverpool have been among other clubs linked with the Scotland star.

Meanwhile, Craig Gordon last night confirmed his exit from Celtic as he paid tribute to the club in an emotional Instagram post.

The goalkeeper said: "The last six years have been the most successful period of my professional career, and I would like to thank everyone who has played their part in making this possible.

"The club, for initially taking a chance on someone who hadn’t played in nearly three years. And to Woodsy for encouraging me to make the move in the first place, and for training me ridiculously hard ever since.

"I’ve had the pleasure of playing alongside some brilliant team-mates - who without, my time at the club would have been very different.

"The fans, for their support. Home, away… all over the world. Thank you.

"My family, who have been there through it all. The ups and downs, the miles, the sacrifices, the celebrations. I hope I’ve made them proud.

"At 37, and with a few years in me yet, I just want to play the game I love, and have played for 20+ professional seasons. Football can make for difficult decisions, but I’m looking forward to the next chapter and challenge.

"Thank you, again."

 

https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/5751600/celtic-forster-permanent-deal-southampton/

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3 minutes ago, Chez said:

The Sun report that Celtic are currently only paying Forster £15k a week: https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/11971686/southampton-fraser-forster-celtic-ntcham/

I think its safe to assume his full wages are four or five times that. I therefore struggle to see how Celtic can afford to pay us a transfer fee AND then match his current wages. Something would have to give.

I'd be more than happy to let him go for free. Just need to get that wage bill down so that we can use that money elsewhere, FFP or whatever it's called will be crippling us right now with the approx. 250k a week we are spending on players who aren't ever going to play for us again. 

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On 6/27/2020 at 3:30 PM, Baird of the land said:

The reality is that we are stuck with 2 out of 3 for the forseeable future. Forster feels the most shiftable and probably on highest wage too but we no doubt don' t want to appear publicly desperate.

I agree with you that we are stuck with at least two of them, which is not great. All three keepers are less than inspiring and have two, or in the case of Gunn, three years left on their contracts. Players don't budge when they have years left on their contracts unless they can earn a shed more elsewhere.

This is one of those times when you wish real life squad management was more like a computer game and we could shift players in and out easier to help revamp the squad.

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9 minutes ago, Saint_clark said:

I'd be more than happy to let him go for free. Just need to get that wage bill down so that we can use that money elsewhere, FFP or whatever it's called will be crippling us right now with the approx. 250k a week we are spending on players who aren't ever going to play for us again. 

even on free, will Celtic pay another £55k or whatever a week on top. That feels like a stretch to me. Champions league qualification for the league stage might play a part...

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Posted (edited)

The first question has to be addressed to Forster - "what is the lowest wage you are prepared to take?" He's reported to be on 60-70k with us, but hopefully he will halve that. Then Celtic will pay his wage in full, and to help them, we'll waive any transfer fee.

Otherwise, they will have to continue to rent him. And we need a sweeter deal. Paying him up to 55k to play up there is daft. If we continue to get shafted like this, then lets insist on Ntcham on a free, to sweeten the pot.

Edited by the saint in winchester

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1 hour ago, Chez said:

even on free, will Celtic pay another £55k or whatever a week on top. That feels like a stretch to me. Champions league qualification for the league stage might play a part...

What is Forster's valuation at the moment I wonder? £5m? £7.5m? £10m...?!

£55k/week works out at c.£8.5m over three years, so if they can be convinced that he's worth that figure then letting him go on a free effectively neutralises the additional wages. 

p.s. I've no idea how one values an ex-England keeper who, in goalkeeping terms, is at his prime age and in relatively decent form...?

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3 hours ago, the saint in winchester said:

The first question has to be addressed to Forster - "what is the lowest wage you are prepared to take?" He's reported to be on 60-70k with us, but hopefully he will halve that. Then Celtic will pay his wage in full, and to help them, we'll waive any transfer fee.

Otherwise, they will have to continue to rent him. And we need a sweeter deal. Paying him up to 55k to play up there is daft. If we continue to get shafted like this, then lets insist on Ntcham on a free, to sweeten the pot.

If your boss told you to take another job for half the money would you?

forster most likely can just hold out till we buckle to another loan deal unless someone offers similar wages to what he is on.

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, Baird of the land said:

If your boss told you to take another job for half the money would you?

 

A job in the 'entertainment industry' (and I broadly include high profile sport under that umbrella) is different to, say, a desk job though. People who work in the public eye (TV, film, sports, etc) first and foremost want to perform in front of their fans. Comparing someone who, for example, works in a dull desk job who is given a choice between another dull desk job at half the salary and 'gardening leave' on full pay, with a 'performer' who has the choice between doing the job he loves in front of an audience at a reduced salary vs drifting into obscurity via training with the U23s is not comparing like-with-like. 

IMHO of course

:)

Edited by trousers

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5 minutes ago, trousers said:

A job in the 'entertainment industry' (and I broadly include high profile sport under that umbrella) is different to, say, a desk job though. People who work in the public eye (TV, film, sports, etc) first and foremost want to perform in front of their fans. Comparing someone who, for example, works in a dull desk job who is given a choice between another dull desk job at half the salary and 'gardening leave' on full pay, with a 'performer' who has the choice between doing the job he loves in front of an audience at a reduced salary vs drifting into obscurity via training with the U23s is not comparing like-with-like. 

IMHO of course

:)

 

Your assuming that saints would put him in u23’s rather than save 15k a week in wages. Past experience with other players doesn’t indicate that.

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8 minutes ago, Baird of the land said:

 

Your assuming that saints would put him in u23’s rather than save 15k a week in wages. Past experience with other players doesn’t indicate that.

Fair point, although I'm just making the general observation that comparing the mindset of a public performer with that of a run of the mill office worker (for example) isn't necessarily a logical equivalence. 

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1 hour ago, Baird of the land said:

If your boss told you to take another job for half the money would you?

forster most likely can just hold out till we buckle to another loan deal unless someone offers similar wages to what he is on.

Depends, if I stay in my high paid job and do fuck all for a few years  ruining the rest of my career As I wouldn t have the level i used to have in my job, I would choose to go somewhere on the lower salary.

 

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It really comes down to Fraser’s motivation to revive his career. Sit on his bum for 2 more years, retire early/lower and non leagues after if he can be bothered, or actually attempt to re-start his career and build in the momentum. If he and his agent want to do that then he has to take a few risks in terms of compromising on his wages. Celtic is the best option to get first team and European football, he would earn the same over a longer period but more likely to get back into the England. He could go to another PL team, perhaps one in the CL, as back up, probably similar wages but perhaps a signing on fee for agent to gorge on. Whatever mentally made him go off the bill at SFC, only Fraser will know if that has changed or not. I don’t think Ralph will pick him regularly though and it would be best for Fraser to move on for the sake of his career. 

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Agree with the comments of recent posters.

Football is in the entertainment industry. During lockdown, we have seen actors and singers showcasing their talents for free. Fraser says he wants to play for Celtic, he has applied for the job, to put it in those terms. He now finds the salary on offer isn't as high as he had hoped. But they are the only employer so far interviewing him, and he wants to work for them.

Let's hope a compromise can be found as he faces unemployment in a few weeks. I think Fraser needs to be proactive in making the compromise offer to allow the two clubs to work out the deal.

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Maybe Fraser doesn’t care how he’s remembered as a footballer and just wants to rack up the cash for his retirement seeing as we are paying him a massive wad. Seems a lot of footballers are happy to see out remaining years not playing football and just collecting big pay cheques.

If it were me, I would want people to look back at me in twenty years and talk about me how I were a top-class goalkeeper and try and make the most of playing at a top level while I still have the ability to, such a short career football is. The SPFL isn’t fantastic, but Celtic usually do well in the CL and will win trophies and he could make himself a cult hero with millions of fans up there, he’s already loved by them after some heroics last season.

Who knows what his mentality is, but I doubt he’s going to get a game with us again, if it’s the playing he’s interested in he’s going to have to move on. I hope for Saints sake he will take a pay cut and we aren’t going to subsidise his moves for the remainder of his contract or it’s just going to hamper us for the next few transfer windows yet again.

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11 minutes ago, SuperSAINT said:

 

Could it be a negotiating tactic from our end? E.g. you're not having another handout from us Celtic, either pay up or move on..

I hope so anyway, the thought of having 3 back-up quality GK's vying for the number 1 shirt is far from inspiring. 

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Posted (edited)

I'm not against that.

If Celtic cannot buy him, and we are still paying the majority of his wages then we may as well let Hasenhuttl and Sparkes look at him and see if he is better than what we have.

Would we be a whole lot worse off if we were to keep Forster and let Gunn go on loan to play a whole season in the Championship, which he probably needs to rebuild his confidence a bit?

Obviously its different if there is a permanent offer for him, but we aren't a charity to help out Celtic. If they can't buy him then they lose their bargaining power somewhat.

Seems clear Ralph isn't a huge fan of McCarthy. He dropped him at pretty much the first point he could last season.

Edited by Dusic

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Ralph has already had a look at him.

he s already evaluated him in training for 6 months and played against west ham last season.

didn t exactly cover himself in glory.

 

i wouldn t be able to stand another with him between the sticks, i got stressed out every game he played towards the end.

No thanks please move on Saints

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4 hours ago, ErwinK1961 said:

Could it be a negotiating tactic from our end? E.g. you're not having another handout from us Celtic, either pay up or move on..

I hope so anyway, the thought of having 3 back-up quality GK's vying for the number 1 shirt is far from inspiring. 

Yeah, a strange one.  Sources all over the place for this in the media, so really hard to tell whats going on.

Lets hope something is happening in regards to Ntcham.

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43 minutes ago, VectisSaint said:

Forster deal with Celtic reportedly dead. FF has "elected" to return to Southampton and fight for place with McCarthy and Gunn. Apparently the deal was all done and dusted between the clubs but Forster has said no.

https://news.stv.tv/sport/no-celtic-move-for-forster-as-keeper-opts-to-stay-at-saints

I do not want this man near our starting line up

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1 hour ago, waylander said:

Maybe we should loan Celtic Angus Gunn

Good idea. He needs the game time and still young. 

Huge gamble if Fraser returns and reverts back to his new old self. 

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"Keeper Opts to Stay with Saints" suggests he told our "hierarchy" (to use the word in the report) that he is NOT prepared to come down on his wage level, so won't be going anywhere.

I fear he is back here under sufferance and isn't going to bust a gut to get back in the side. £65k a week to come to training - nice work if you can get it.

Still, no point in me getting bitter and twisted. Les Reed had him sign the contract at that wage level.

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