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Fraser Forster

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Just now, Whitey Grandad said:

Something not quite right here.

 

”The impression we got” followed by “we had been led to believe something else”

Chelsea were sniffing as well  at the time, not sure if they still are. Their priority at the mo seems to be a new number 1 and Forster is certainly not going to be that!

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6 hours ago, Matthew Le God said:

We knew it already, but Celtic is a no go with them spending £4.5m on a new keeper...

 

As per your post earlier in this thread and before that someone else pointing it out also. Poor posting.

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39 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

As per your post earlier in this thread and before that someone else pointing it out also. Poor posting.

It wasn't confirmed until today

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1 hour ago, Matthew Le God said:

It wasn't confirmed until today

But as you said, we all knew it. Poor. 

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I can't believe the Club is going to be lumbered with Forster - that stinking contract extension FF has at SFC seems to be the attraction for him to "fight for his place".      So many crap performances from him, and the prospect of him returning is truly abject.

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Posted (edited)
31 minutes ago, austsaint said:

I can't believe the Club is going to be lumbered with Forster - that stinking contract extension FF has at SFC seems to be the attraction for him to "fight for his place".      So many crap performances from him, and the prospect of him returning is truly abject.

Does his return to form and confidence after a very positive loan spell not make it any better?

Edited by Matthew Le God

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14 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

Does his return to form and confidence after a very positive loan spell not make it any better?

No it doesn t.

The Scottish league is not on the same level as the PL

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Just now, stevy777_x said:

No it doesn t.

The Scottish league is not on the same level as the PL

A return to confidence is a return to confidence no matter what league it is in. He appears to mentally be in a much better place now.

A save of a shot is a save of a shot no matter what league he is in.

Why does it matter if it was a Rangers player or a Brighton player who took the shot?

 

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23 hours ago, Matthew Le God said:

A return to confidence is a return to confidence no matter what league it is in. He appears to mentally be in a much better place now.

A save of a shot is a save of a shot no matter what league he is in.

Why does it matter if it was a Rangers player or a Brighton player who took the shot?

 

That video is full of bog standard saves and a few - like the second one - that were piss poor. That was straight at him and could have easily gone in or fell to a striker to tap in. 

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On 31/07/2020 at 12:18, Matthew Le God said:

A return to confidence is a return to confidence no matter what league it is in. He appears to mentally be in a much better place now.

A save of a shot is a save of a shot no matter what league he is in.

Why does it matter if it was a Rangers player or a Brighton player who took the shot?

 

Got it, let s go and sign a sunday league keeper then. If their saves ratio is really high let s sign one. 🤦🏻‍♂️

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On 31/07/2020 at 10:58, Matthew Le God said:

Does his return to form and confidence after a very positive loan spell not make it any better?

No, he really wasn't very good in the first place, made to look decent because of what was in front of him. 

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I would implore anyone to look up how ‘in form’ he ha been up there... the truth is, pretty much 1 in 2 shots on target go in.

 

i did feverishly do the stats on him and Gunn but I don’t think I can be arsed to find them again.

 

bottom line is, he’s cr4p.

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Unfortunately being a keeper is a bit more than shot/save ratio. He is crap on crosses and not great with the ball at his feet.

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Posted (edited)
14 hours ago, VectisSaint said:

No, he really wasn't very good in the first place, made to look decent because of what was in front of him. 

This.

He didn’t actually save much, shots used to hit the big lump, but I don’t recall too many “how did he save that” moments. Arsenal away maybe, but even then most of the attempts that night  just hit him. 

Edited by Lord Duckhunter

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1 minute ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

This.

He didn’t actually save much, shots used to hit the big lump, but I don’t recall too many “how did he save that” moments. Arsenal away maybe, but even then most of the attempts that night  just hit him. 

Why don't they count as saves?

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1 minute ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

This.

He didn’t actually save much, shots used to hit the big lump, but I don’t recall too many “how did he save that” moments. Arsenal away maybe, but even then most of the attempts that night  just hit him. 

I concluded a few seasons ago that FF doesn't make "saves" but does "blocks", his favourite one was always with his feet or ankles, often knocking the ball back into the danger zone.

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On 31/07/2020 at 11:18, Matthew Le God said:

A return to confidence is a return to confidence no matter what league it is in. He appears to mentally be in a much better place now.

A save of a shot is a save of a shot no matter what league he is in.

Did you ever follow Kelvin Davis' career? He was selected on multiple occasions for 'Team of the Season' in the lower leagues and yet every time he played in the Premier League either he lost his place or his side got relegated. Still, the selective reading of stats is all that matters, and on that basis I for one welcome our SPL Champion Fraser Forster back as Ralph's number one for next season.

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3 hours ago, Ultimatt said:

What if we offered him a new 5 year contract to help his confidence?

Yes that was madness first time round.

I say get him back, get Berty to hit a few crosses in and then Danny to fire a few shots at him and then we make up your minds.

I'm pretty sure Sparkes our goalkeeping coach will be rattling Ralph's door after 5 minutes of watching Forster.

 

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3 hours ago, Ultimatt said:

What if we offered him a new 5 year contract to help his confidence?

And a raise 🤑

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On ‎01‎/‎08‎/‎2020 at 11:46, stevy777_x said:

Got it, let s go and sign a sunday league keeper then. If their saves ratio is really high let s sign one. 🤦🏻‍♂️

Good case of when you're in a hole keep digging.  Missing the point made by other responders who've explained that the quality of outfield play in different leagues is not relevant to shot stopping. Forster showed he has quality by getting into the England team but he let that slip, hence the loss of his place with Saints  His performances at Celtic suggest he's playing better again. It's now for the goalkeeper coaching staff to advise the manager on whether he's a better number 2, than Angus Gunn.   

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I remember that when Fraser Forster signed for us he was a distinct improvement on what we then had, and up until his injury was actually playing really well.  And was in the England squad.  So at the time the contract seemed like a good idea.  The problem was that after the injury his form dipped, other teams sussed out his weaknesses and we ended up with a player on our books who was paid a lot and not playing.

I think that previous management made much bigger mistakes than the Forster contract - signing Carillo. Hoedt, Lemina. Elyounoussi to name four

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1 hour ago, kwsaint said:

I remember that when Fraser Forster signed for us he was a distinct improvement on what we then had, and up until his injury was actually playing really well.  And was in the England squad.  So at the time the contract seemed like a good idea.  The problem was that after the injury his form dipped, other teams sussed out his weaknesses and we ended up with a player on our books who was paid a lot and not playing.

I think that previous management made much bigger mistakes than the Forster contract - signing Carillo. Hoedt, Lemina. Elyounoussi to name four

But we then gave him another new contract, a year after his original one - after he'd had a very substandard year.

Absolutely moronic from Reed.

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On 04/08/2020 at 08:28, kwsaint said:

I remember that when Fraser Forster signed for us he was a distinct improvement on what we then had, and up until his injury was actually playing really well.  And was in the England squad.  So at the time the contract seemed like a good idea.  The problem was that after the injury his form dipped, other teams sussed out his weaknesses and we ended up with a player on our books who was paid a lot and not playing.

I think that previous management made much bigger mistakes than the Forster contract - signing Carillo. Hoedt, Lemina. Elyounoussi to name four

An improvement on boruc ??

 

thats mental. 

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On 04/08/2020 at 08:28, kwsaint said:

I remember that when Fraser Forster signed for us he was a distinct improvement on what we then had, and up until his injury was actually playing really well.  And was in the England squad.  So at the time the contract seemed like a good idea.  The problem was that after the injury his form dipped, other teams sussed out his weaknesses and we ended up with a player on our books who was paid a lot and not playing.

I think that previous management made much bigger mistakes than the Forster contract - signing Carillo. Hoedt, Lemina. Elyounoussi to name four

Really? A distinct improvement?

i thought that bar a couple of individual errors Boruc was absolutely class for us, and I’m gutted Ronald didn’t want him around the club anymore

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10 hours ago, bpsaint said:

Really? A distinct improvement?

i thought that bar a couple of individual errors Boruc was absolutely class for us, and I’m gutted Ronald didn’t want him around the club anymore

Boruc was very good for Saints (most of the time) - so much better than FF.    Didn't Ronald react to an on field incident where Artur threw a water bottle at a gobby spectator?     Seemed to be after that his card was marked by RK.

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15 minutes ago, austsaint said:

Boruc was very good for Saints (most of the time) - so much better than FF.    Didn't Ronald react to an on field incident where Artur threw a water bottle at a gobby spectator?     Seemed to be after that his card was marked by RK.

You have twisted history quite a bit! 😃

The Boruc bottle incident was in a game managed by Nigel Adkins vs Tottenham October 2012

Koeman joined Saints in June 2014

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Seem to remember quite a few of our fans giving Boric stick when he first joined which culminated in the bottle being thrown at some idiot who probably deserved it.

Suffice to say they were all wrong because he was decent. 

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30 minutes ago, The Cat said:

Seem to remember quite a few of our fans giving Boric stick when he first joined which culminated in the bottle being thrown at some idiot who probably deserved it.

Suffice to say they were all wrong because he was decent. 

Yep, I remember we played Arsenal at home and the fans were ironically cheering every time he caught a cross after he messed up a couple early on. The water bottle thing was a bit weird if I remember rightly, he was getting a load of grief from a few fans behind the goal and lobbed his water bottle in their direction and some of them started squinnying about it. 
He was a very good keeper so the signing of Forster was an odd one, he certainly wasn’t an upgrade on Boruc. 

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1 hour ago, The Cat said:

Seem to remember quite a few of our fans giving Boric stick when he first joined which culminated in the bottle being thrown at some idiot who probably deserved it.

Suffice to say they were all wrong because he was decent

 

I thought so, but his attitude does seem odd at times.

Suffice to say my Cherries chums here in Dorset can't believe they've paid him so much money for so little. He's apparently said he doesn't much enjoy playing, and mostly dislikes football fans.

Maybe not the most positive guy to have in the dressing room.

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2 hours ago, Matthew Le God said:

You have twisted history quite a bit! 😃

The Boruc bottle incident was in a game managed by Nigel Adkins vs Tottenham October 2012

Koeman joined Saints in June 2014

Fair enough....memory is a faulty thing!!!     I wonder what did cause Koeman to lose faith with Boruc then; it certainly wasn't Forster's great form was it.

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I thought Forster was quality for us before his injury. In that period our best keeper since Niemi and def an upgrade on Boruc, obviosuly since the injury and drop in confidence that's a different case.

Wasn't he part of the team that kept something like ten clean sheets in a row (MLG over to you to give the correct stat)?

 

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Boruc is one of those who has a, lets say questionable personality, but has gotten away with it through his career as he's a good player. I think Koeman demanded professionalism from all, which was shown when Wanyama and Mane used to step out of line (e.g. the Liverpool comeback match). There was also a clear breakdown in Koeman's and Boruc's relationship, as you could see from Boruc's cryptic Instagram posts at the time of being dropped and then his less subtle criticism of Koeman when he left for Everton.

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Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, austsaint said:

Fair enough....memory is a faulty thing!!!     I wonder what did cause Koeman to lose faith with Boruc then; it certainly wasn't Forster's great form was it.

Boruc was never Koeman's first choice. He was loaned out in Koeman first summer and did not play a league game for Koeman.

Koeman and Forster's first season 2014/15 saw Saints only concede 33 goals, only Champions Chelsea conceded less (32 goals). People will probably say it was due to the players in defence and midfield, but for Forster to have the 2nd fewest goals conceded in the league he must have done something right that season! You don't only concede 33 PL goals with a good defence and midfield... the keeper is doing something right as well.

Timeline

- Nigel Adkins signed Boruc in August 2012

- the bottle incident happended in October 2012 when Adkins was manager

- Adkins then dropped him until January 2013

- Pochettino joined in January 2013

- Boruc was the regular keeper for Pochettino

- Koeman joined Saints in June 2014, Forster joined in August 2014

 

Edited by Matthew Le God

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7 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

Boruc was never Koeman's first choice. He was loaned out in Koeman first summer and did not play a league game for Koeman.

Koeman and Forster's first season 2014/15 saw Saints only concede 33 goals, only Champions Chelsea conceded less (32 goals). People will probably say it was due to the players in defence and midfield, but for Forster to have the 2nd fewest goals conceded in the league he must have done something right that season! You don't only concede 33 PL goals with a good defence and midfield... the keeper is doing something right as well.

Timeline

- Nigel Adkins signed Boruc in August 2012

- the bottle incident happended in October 2012 when Adkins was manager

- Adkins then dropped him until January 2013

- Pochettino joined in January 2013

- Boruc was the regular keeper for Pochettino

- Koeman joined Saints in June 2014, Forster joined in August 2014

 

Good stuff....good analysis.    One thing I'm fairly certain about though is the belief that FF is, and mostly always has been, a flawed keeper.     

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2 minutes ago, SFC Forever said:

so we can blame Koeman for bringing him here

Do you blame Koeman for only conceding 33 league goals in 2014/15? 😛

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8 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

Do you blame Koeman for only conceding 33 league goals in 2014/15? 😛

Toby, Fonte, Clyne and a youngish Bertrand were a fairly handy wall in front of the old FF, to be fair.  Not to mention Big Vic and Morgan, both in their prime.   

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, austsaint said:

Toby, Fonte, Clyne and a youngish Bertrand were a fairly handy wall in front of the old FF, to be fair.  Not to mention Big Vic and Morgan, both in their prime.   

I addressed that when I said...

"People will probably say it was due to the players in defence and midfield, but for Forster to have the 2nd fewest goals conceded in the league he must have done something right that season! You don't only concede 33 PL goals with a good defence and midfield... the keeper is doing something right as well."

Put a shit keeper behind a good midfield and good defence and they'd concede more than 33 goals in 38 league games. There is only so much a good defence and good midfield can do. A poor keeper wouldn't see only 33 goals conceded in a season.

Edited by Matthew Le God

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4 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

I addressed that when I said...

"People will probably say it was due to the players in defence and midfield, but for Forster to have the 2nd fewest goals conceded in the league he must have done something right that season! You don't only concede 33 PL goals with a good defence and midfield... the keeper is doing something right as well."

Put a shit keeper behind a good midfield and good defence and they'd concede more than 33 goals in 38 league games. 2nd best record in the league in 2014/15.

I'll disagree with you there - a shite goalkeeper he was....and still is.

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, austsaint said:

I'll disagree with you there - a shite goalkeeper he was....and still is.

Can you name an example of a Premier League team that conceded around 33 goals in 38 games and had a shit keeper? There is only so much a good defence and good midfield can do to keep the goals conceded down and competent keeper is required. As good as our defence and midfield was at the time, it was still not at the level of Chelsea, who who won the league that season and only conceded one fewer goal than Saints.

Edited by Matthew Le God

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Posted (edited)

Not getting involved the the keeping debate - but I do remember reading about that season being so good defensively largely due to Morgan & Big Vic shutting down so many shots.

That was a top side.

Edited by SuperSAINT

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Matthew Le God said:

I addressed that when I said...

"People will probably say it was due to the players in defence and midfield, but for Forster to have the 2nd fewest goals conceded in the league he must have done something right that season! You don't only concede 33 PL goals with a good defence and midfield... the keeper is doing something right as well."

Put a shit keeper behind a good midfield and good defence and they'd concede more than 33 goals in 38 league games. There is only so much a good defence and good midfield can do. A poor keeper wouldn't see only 33 goals conceded in a season.

Forster only played 30 games that season, and conceded 20 I think. A shit keeper can be protected by a shit hot defensive unit. Forster wasn't shit, but he was below average, if the defensive unit stops shots from being on target for a keeper that has a poor shots/save ratio, as Forster certainly did a couple of seasons later, then keeping to just over a goal [er game is not that difficult. I think you underestimate how good our defensive unit was that season, if we had had a better keeper we could have done better than we did. Forster was not very good, and after his knee injury he went downhill even further. He had occasional great games, but then so did Kelvin Davis. Forster looks good at Celtic for exactly the same reason, the Bhoys concede very little in the way of chances on target, as you would expect playing the SPL. Forster is not shit, but he is at best bang average and his shortcomings in many areas (crosses, distribution, kicking, ball at feet, defensive organisation, and of course shot stopping) are exposed in the PL, especially when you have a leaky defensive unit, which with the best will in the world we do. 

Edited by VectisSaint
Wrong about goals per game ratio

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, VectisSaint said:

Forster only played 30 games that season, so his goals to games ratio was higher than 1. 

You have overlooked Kelvin Davis and Paulo Gazzaniga conceded 12 goals in the games they played.

Forster 14/15 PL games = 30

Forster 14/15 PL goals conceded = 21

Forster's ratio for 14/15 = 0.7 goals per game which is extremely good

Edited by Matthew Le God

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On 04/08/2020 at 09:37, S-Clarke said:

But we then gave him another new contract, a year after his original one - after he'd had a very substandard year.

Absolutely moronic from Reed.

Quite. Even if he’d had a good year it would’ve still been moronic. He already had a LONG contract.

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Sorry correct me if I am wrong, wasn’t Forster last goalkeeper to win player of the month and also holds our record as most minutes gone without conceding?

2014-15 he was top draw for us although criticisms were he never dominated the box and was slow to come off his line.

I won’t forget his game against Arsenal away (may have been twice) where he was unbelievable. 
 

I would love for him as much as the next person to regain that form but as we know a GK’s confidence is fragile, sometimes they never return back to what they have originally shown (see Karius as one example)

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4 hours ago, Matthew Le God said:

Do you blame Koeman for only conceding 33 league goals in 2014/15? 😛

I meant that as a sarcastic comment as there always seems to be someone to blame

 

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