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The United Kingdom and the Death of Boris Johnson as we know it.

CB Fry

By CB Fry,
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saint1977

saint1977

Posted
Posted

Enjoying a book by the conservative author Ed West at the moment called Small Men on the Wrong Side of History. It tracks how Conservative values and policies since the 1980s when capitalism was so much preferable to the Iron Curtain have declined and in fact collapsed amongst under 45s and my group Generation X, which normally would be becoming a lot more Conservative by now. Socialism looked totally defeated, hence New Labour. The hypothesis is that conservatism has retreated into pessimism and cultural envy, when just 30 years ago it had a clear advantage, professional people would not have aligned with the values of the USSR even if Benn, GLC did, although they were regarded as losers. 

I can see a lot of truth in the book which takes a fresh look at historic political thinkers. Both left and right in the social media age have retreated into a shouty and extreme echo chamber which clashes at each other and what they actually have in common is misperceived as differences. The most vehement and angry conservative posters and worst hatred comes from the dispossessed. The modern day conservatives have been able to regain and retain power through Labour’s own infighting - Corbyn and either side - and crises contrived to divide and rule eg austerity, Brexit, immigration and nationalism/patriotism. Spending a fortune on regeneration in their newly won seats is keeping poll ratings going but how long is this sustainable? The backlash against loud identity politics is helping the government at the moment and putting Labour’s divisions into view again but they are swimming against a medium term tide demographically. Look at NI - catholics recently overtook Protestants for the first time very recently. 

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rallyboy

rallyboy

Posted
Posted

As I keep hearing that the UK leads the world in every field of human endeavour and we're a global powerhouse that is building back better, could we perhaps use some of our power to intervene in Palestine?

Could we use our enormous influence to calm the situation on both sides, and perhaps remind Israel that the world is watching? 

 

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Weston Super Saint

Weston Super Saint

Posted
Posted
5 hours ago, rallyboy said:

As I keep hearing that the UK leads the world in every field of human endeavour and we're a global powerhouse that is building back better, could we perhaps use some of our power to intervene in Palestine?

Could we use our enormous influence to calm the situation on both sides, and perhaps remind Israel that the world is watching? 

 

Is there any money in it?

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Weston Super Saint

Weston Super Saint

Posted
Posted
10 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

Aren't the Palestinians the only Arabs without oil ?

No.

https://unctad.org/news/unrealized-potential-palestinian-oil-and-gas-reserves

Quote

Geologists and resources economists have confirmed that the occupied Palestinian territory (oPt) lies above sizeable reservoirs of oil and natural gas wealth, in Area C of the West Bank and the Mediterranean coast off the Gaza Strip

 

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rallyboy

rallyboy

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Fan The Flames said:

Maybe if Boris gets a holiday out of it or a little tight cheeked lovely to drool over.

He and I differ on many things, but from what I have seen of his taste, we are even further apart on the definition of a tight-cheeked lovely. 🤮

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badgerx16

badgerx16

Posted
Posted (edited)

Dominic Cummins is currently being questioned by a Parliamentary committee;

"Cummings says the crisis raises profound questions about a political system that gives people a choice between Jeremy Corbyn and Boris Johnson.

He says any system that gives a choice between two people like that is obviously a system that has gone "terribly wrong"."

 

 

"Cummings says an investigation from the cabinet secretary later revealed Mr Hancock's claims to be "completely untrue" - with the cabinet secretary also saying he had lost confidence in Mr Hancock's ability to be truthful during cabinet meetings."

 

 

( Taken from the beeb's coverage)

Edited by badgerx16
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badgerx16

badgerx16

Posted
Posted
22 minutes ago, Doctoroncall said:

The common sense MPs have released their manifesto to combat liberalism:

https://www.thecommonsensegroup.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/Common-Sense.pdf
 

as a group, they are becoming more influential in the Tory party. 
 

it’s all common sense really!

The ERG reborn.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/nov/11/dissatisfied-tory-mps-flock-to-erg-inspired-pressure-groups

https://yorkshirebylines.co.uk/common-sense-group-provides-thin-veil-for-tory-culture-wars/

 

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buctootim

buctootim

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Doctoroncall said:

The common sense MPs have released their manifesto to combat liberalism:

https://www.thecommonsensegroup.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/Common-Sense.pdf
 

as a group, they are becoming more influential in the Tory party. 
 

it’s all common sense really!

Peter Lilley, Edward Leigh, same old same old right wing dinosaurs. 

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badgerx16

badgerx16

Posted
Posted (edited)

Cummings trying to throw Hancock under a bus ?

 

""I blame myself for many, many, many things in this whole crisis," Cummings replies, "I said repeatedly from February/March, if we don't fire the Secretary of State [Matt Hancock]... we are going to kill people and it is going to be a catastrophe.""

 

"He quotes Boris Johnson as saying 'Hancock told us in the cabinet room that people were going to be tested before they went back to care homes. What the hell happened?'

Cummings said they "were told categorically in March that people would be tested" but he says despite the government rhetoric of putting a shield around care homes it "was complete nonsense" and quite the opposite happened."

 

 

"Labour's Graham Stringer asks why Matt Hancock is still the health secretary and why the PM didn't take Cummings' advice to fire him?

Cummings says Boris Johnson came close to "removing him" in April 2020 but held back.

He says he can't speculate as to why he held on to him because "there was certainly no good reason" to do so."

 

"He says he told the PM he wasn't prepared to work with Matt Hancock any more but the PM admitted he was more frightened of Cummings having the power to make changes than taking the action he wanted."

Edited by badgerx16
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buctootim

buctootim

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, trousers said:

Cummings seems to have a bit of a soft spot for Sunak and Raab.... promise of a job offer once Johnson has been forced out...? He's also given Gove an easy ride.

Tbf all three are probably better than Johnson and Hancock. Sunak seems competent and a good sense of direction. Gove is competent but shifty and socially out of touch. Raab - jury is out.    

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Lord Duckhunter

Lord Duckhunter

Posted
Posted
12 minutes ago, trousers said:

Cummings seems to have a bit of a soft spot for Sunak and Raab.... promise of a job offer once Johnson has been forced out...? He's also given Gove an easy ride.

He used to work for Gove. Wouldn’t surprise me if Gove is pulling the strings.  He’s far and away the most talented minister, but he’s Mandleson like in his shiftiness. 

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The Cat

The Cat

Posted
Posted

Calling Johnson "an out of control shopping trolley" is a beautiful description.

It's a damning account of the ineptitude of the government's handling of covid, much of will still probably be glossed over in the eyes of voters because of the success of the vaccine rollout. 

 

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trousers

trousers

Posted
Posted
13 minutes ago, The Cat said:

It's a damning account of the ineptitude of the government's handling of covid

How do we know how much of said account is accurate? (Not taking sides here, I've genuinely no idea how reliable a witness Cummings is)

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trousers

trousers

Posted
Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, Chapel End said:

Too much detail for there not to be truth in a lot of it 

There was quite a lot of detail in his Barnard Castle story/explanation, but many disbelieved much of it...?

Edited by trousers
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The Cat

The Cat

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, trousers said:

How do we know how much of said account is accurate? (Not taking sides here, I've genuinely no idea how reliable a witness Cummings is)

We might know whether all his claims are completely accurate if he releases texts and other messages to the committee. 

As said above there is a lot of detail in some of the statements and having watched some of the questioning live he came across as believable. There was no floundering around and avoiding questions like Johnson does when he's backed into a corner.

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badgerx16

badgerx16

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, trousers said:

How do we know how much of said account is accurate? (Not taking sides here, I've genuinely no idea how reliable a witness Cummings is)

 

25 minutes ago, The Cat said:

We might know whether all his claims are completely accurate if he releases texts and other messages to the committee. 

As said above there is a lot of detail in some of the statements and having watched some of the questioning live he came across as believable. There was no floundering around and avoiding questions like Johnson does when he's backed into a corner.

Hancock is before the joint committee in 2 weeks time.

Edited by badgerx16
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Weston Super Saint

Weston Super Saint

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, trousers said:

How do we know how much of said account is accurate? (Not taking sides here, I've genuinely no idea how reliable a witness Cummings is)

Most of what he said seems to be because he has a hard on for Hancock for some reason - it's very much he said, she said hearsay at the moment.

The rest just seems to be because he doesn't just have good enough eyesight to drive a car, but also has 20-20 hindsight!
 

Five claims fact checked

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Whitey Grandad

Whitey Grandad

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

He used to work for Gove. Wouldn’t surprise me if Gove is pulling the strings.  He’s far and away the most talented minister, but he’s Mandleson like in his shiftiness. 

Indeed. If he shook your hand you’d count your fingers afterwards.

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Tamesaint

Tamesaint

Posted
Posted

I wonder if the Covid inquiry will now be brought forward. It was very convenient for Johnson that as the inquiry isn't to start until next year , it is unikely to issue its report before another General Election. 

With a loose cannon like Cummings firing grapeshot everywhere it may be in the Government's interest to get the investigation started so that his allegations can be investigated and refuted. 

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badgerx16

badgerx16

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, Tamesaint said:

I wonder if the Covid inquiry will now be brought forward. It was very convenient for Johnson that as the inquiry isn't to start until next year , it is unikely to issue its report before another General Election. 

With a loose cannon like Cummings firing grapeshot everywhere it may be in the Government's interest to get the investigation started so that his allegations can be investigated and refuted. 

What if they know that the allegations cannot be refuted ?

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Lord Duckhunter

Lord Duckhunter

Posted
Posted
14 minutes ago, Tamesaint said:

I wonder if the Covid inquiry will now be brought forward. It was very convenient for Johnson that as the inquiry isn't to start until next year , it is unikely to issue its report before another General Election. 

With a loose cannon like Cummings firing grapeshot everywhere it may be in the Government's interest to get the investigation started so that his allegations can be investigated and refuted. 

I’d be a amazed if it reports before the following election, let alone the next one. 

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rallyboy

rallyboy

Posted
Posted

Today has made life awkward for those who have blindly defended every stunt that Boris and Cummings have pulled in recent years - when couples split it's difficult choosing sides.

And with some of these allegations supported by detail already in the public domain, it does appear that one or two of the wheels have fallen off.

Is Boris still playing a blinder?

 

 

 

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RedArmy

RedArmy

Posted
Posted

All those remainers that lost their shit at Cummings last year because he was supposedly running the show and broke his own rules are now creaming their knickers that he’s trying to bring down Boris who now conveniently was running the country on his own. 
 

Make your minds up :smug:

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whelk

whelk

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, RedArmy said:

All those remainers that lost their shit at Cummings last year because he was supposedly running the show and broke his own rules are now creaming their knickers that he’s trying to bring down Boris who now conveniently was running the country on his own. 
 

Make your minds up :smug:

Its dickheads like you who always want to be in a camp. Fucking remainers. Yeah it’s about that eh

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badgerx16

badgerx16

Posted
Posted
19 minutes ago, RedArmy said:

All those remainers that lost their shit at Cummings last year because he was supposedly running the show and broke his own rules are now creaming their knickers that he’s trying to bring down Boris who now conveniently was running the country on his own. 
 

Make your minds up :smug:

Where's the contradiction ? Cummings out of 'power' undermining BoJo is win-win.

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Turkish

Turkish

Posted
Posted (edited)
24 minutes ago, RedArmy said:

All those remainers that lost their shit at Cummings last year because he was supposedly running the show and broke his own rules are now creaming their knickers that he’s trying to bring down Boris who now conveniently was running the country on his own. 
 

Make your minds up :smug:

https://www.thedailymash.co.uk/politics/politics-headlines/everyone-whos-called-cummings-a-liar-for-years-ready-to-believe-every-word-20210526208491 👏🏻👏🏼👏🏽👏🏾👏🏿

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Weston Super Saint

Weston Super Saint

Posted
Posted
27 minutes ago, Fan The Flames said:

So those calling out Cummings last year for bull shitting about Barnard Castle were right all along, despite being hit with a barrage of remainer nonsense and Kinnock whataboutery.

Nope.

He didn't (technically) break any rules during his trip to Barnard Castle last year.  He did try to justify it with some bullshit story though which made him look a right prat.

He's now changed his mind for the reason for the trip, which apparently was because there were a number of people outside his home making threats.

He certainly has a bit of 'form' for telling the odd porky or two....

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trousers

trousers

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Fan The Flames said:

Everyone who believed every word of Cummings for years ready to call him a liar.

I've seen examples of that in addition to examples of the reverse. Human beings in believing what suits their agenda shocker...

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Fan The Flames

Fan The Flames

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Nope.

He didn't (technically) break any rules during his trip to Barnard Castle last year.  He did try to justify it with some bullshit story though which made him look a right prat.

He's now changed his mind for the reason for the trip, which apparently was because there were a number of people outside his home making threats.

He certainly has a bit of 'form' for telling the odd porky or two....

I said he was bullshitting, you said nope then said he was bullshitting. Are you not reading posts properly again Weston.

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Weston Super Saint

Weston Super Saint

Posted
Posted
42 minutes ago, Fan The Flames said:

I said he was bullshitting, you said nope then said he was bullshitting. Are you not reading posts properly again Weston.

The claim last year was that he had broken the rules - rules that he had been instrumental in creating, so should have known better.

Are you selectively remembering history?

Those calling him out for bullshitting - from both sides of the fence - were right all along, but that has never been disputed.

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  • Lighthouse changed the title to The United Kingdom and the Death of Boris Johnson as we know it.

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