Ralph Hasenhuttl

[Wade Garrett]

I wouldn’t risk having him in charge for even one more game.  He is a liability, he has been found out by opposition managers and now it looks like the players have no faith in him.

 

Edited 12 December, 2021 by Wade Garrett

[Forester]

A viewpoint from someone who has been loyal and supportive of Ralph here:  I am now two games away from seriously considering we may need to make a change.  The next two games are critical and we absolutely need to avoid poor results or we will be needing to beat Wet Spam away (thrashed there every season since Puel days) or a resurgent Spurs under Conte to be above the one point per game at the halfway mark.  And as I have commented on other thread, this is an unusual season in that no one is cut adrift, Newcastle will spend big, Norwich are improving and Burnley are, well, Burnley and I imagine will find a way to grind out results.

 

So I am not there yet, but the Board cannot let things continue.  It is insane to play 4222 in every single game, particularly when the DMs are also encouraged to press.  Earlier in the season I thought Ralph was genuinely being more flexible but we are back to where we were second half of last season.  Everyone accepts that our squad is not a top eight set up, but greater flexibility tactically would without doubt bring us more points.  And there isn’t a huge gap between us and Wolves in eight, just five points.  Those five points could be picked up by effective match management.

 

There has been much boasting of the squad being deeper this season.  December and January traditionally are the months where squad rotation and covering injuries/suspensions become vital.  So far this is not evident in results.

[saint michael]

4 hours ago, egg said:

Good post and agree with you. 

The zonal marking is appalling. Arsenal aren't so fluid that our players can't mark a man. The tactic is so easy to exploit its embarrassing, and as you say, the players haven't got a clue. 

The worst thing I hear from fans is that we can't get anyone better, so let's stick with what we have. What a load of bollocks - if I was in a shit relationship I'd get the hell out there regardless of whether I've got someone else lined. Sticking with it would be mental, just like sticking with Ralph is. He has to go. 

A good analogy.  We have the worst defensive record of goals conceded. Do we believe that in 2021 we have had the worst set of players. They may not be great but I don’t believe they are the worst players, so the tactics and coaching must take a big slice of the responsibility. 

[Roo1976]

5 hours ago, Nemi said:

 

I’m certain Ralph will get us relegated this season and I’m positive there’s a manager who could probably just about save us.

But I really struggle to see how people think one man will turn around a squad that has consistently been terrible and underwhelming since 2016.

Elyounoussi has only ever scored one for Saints.

Tella, despite some promise, still only has one goal.

Djenepo has what? Two or three goals.

Walcott is clearly finished.

The fact that Redmond is our best attacking mid says it all.

These players output has been shocking for a long, long time.

Bednarek and Stephen’s have been part of some really, really awful defensive partnerships.

Lycano and Salisu are still pretty new to the PL. Livramento is still only a kid. Walker-Peters is decent but he’s still no world-beater: it’s not like his output has ever been that great either.

I think everyone can agree our keepers are crap.

Romeu and JWP have never been as good as people make them out to be (they weren’t regular starters under Koeman) - that’s especially showing this season.

At least Adams send to be improving, but he’s still inconsistent. Broja is still in his first PL season; same with Armstrong and I can see nothing about him which shows he’s gonna make it at this level.

For the three or four decent players that are left, the rest are really, really poor. And that’s shown in the fact hardly any of these players have been starters in a top-half PL team. And they’ve consistently finished in the bottom half with Saints. I don’t see how that’s ever gonna change.

And nothing will change in my eyes until there’s a total clear out top-to-bottom. New manager, new players, and new owners.

Thats a brilliant post mate. Elyounoussi and Djenepo contribute fuck all. Romeu and JWP not enough quick forward passing contributions . Broja seems atm injury prone,

and going through the motions, as he wont be ours to keep at the end of this season. Fingers crossed AA comes good. Side issue here,has anyone noticed a hell of a lot

of our shots at goal seem to be scuffed and very weak game after game ,does panic set in and they are not able to connect properly ? very frustrating.

[Harry_SFC]

Out team is pretty average but we need to be harder to beat. You know we have two crap centre backs so why not try and protect them a bit more. Maybe try 3 in midfield? This obsession with 2 upfront and 2 in midfield in every game we play is our downfall. 

Edited 12 December, 2021 by Harry_SFC

[Lallana's Left Peg]

6 hours ago, Golac's Cunning Stunts said:

Agreed the lack of investment makes things difficult. However, you are suggesting because of this Ralph should have a get out of jail free card? His record is appalling. He is not the man to make a fight of this situation. Changing the manager now is probably the only thing we can do to have a chance of beating relegation. Ralph is out of ideas and out of time. He needs to go.

 

No I don't think the Manager shouldn't come under scrutiny.  He should be accountable for getting the most out of the team, and arguably he isn't and most concerning is our regression defensively this season and some longer term trends which reflect the downward trajectory of the club which he cannot seem to address.

But I am not too sure there is another manager who can do better.  I appreciate its entirely subjective and based on pure speculation, so there is no point debating it too much, but when I look at the things he is struggling with I don't think they are things entirely down to his ability I think they are more reflective of the quality of player he has to work with.  Perhaps he could be more adaptive to the limitations of his squad, but that would result in some very boring football (i.e. to shore it up at the back we create even less up front, and with poor finishers at the club we're basically playing for 1-0 wins and that isn't sustainable either).

I've personally seen enough in his system and belief of how for us to play to think he can have some success, but with one of the worst teams in the league he's going to get some of the worst results - that's to be expected.  Anyone who thinks this squad is any better than bottom 5 is a dreamer.  It's frustrating how we collapse in second halves but also it is surprising to me to see us play so well in the first half.  That doesn't excuse not being able to sort the second half of the games but the positive of the first halves shouldn't be ignored.

Anyway - Ralph can improve but we're talking about fine margins and the bigger issue is at an investment level and no manager can fight money - at least no manager in history has been able to over a period of time.  It kills you, and a lack of it is killing us.

[verlaine1979]

4-3-3 probably suits our personnel best. JWP, Romeu, Diallo as a base, Tella, Broja, Redmond as the front three.

Tella and Redmond wide rather than narrow, JWP learns to show up on the edge of the box.

[Badger]

7 hours ago, Nemi said:

 

I’m certain Ralph will get us relegated this season and I’m positive there’s a manager who could probably just about save us.

But I really struggle to see how people think one man will turn around a squad that has consistently been terrible and underwhelming since 2016.

And nothing will change in my eyes until there’s a total clear out top-to-bottom. New manager, new players, and new owners.

Some good points in your post. However although you say you're positive there's a manager to save us, fourteen paragraph's later you've not identified or suggested one. 

Agree with your conclusion though.

[nta786]

“I think the first goal changed the momentum completely. We had, until that moment, absolute control of the game, and kept them in their half,” Hasenhüttl said.

“But it’s always the same – if you don’t take something out of this momentum, and you concede the first chance and the first goal, then it is definitely a booster for them. That’s normal."

These were Ralph's words from the official site. My question to Ralph then why is it that if we ever get the first goal, it's not a booster for us and we end up dropping points or even losing? 

[captainchris]

1 hour ago, Lallana's Left Peg said:

 

No I don't think the Manager shouldn't come under scrutiny.  He should be accountable for getting the most out of the team, and arguably he isn't and most concerning is our regression defensively this season and some longer term trends which reflect the downward trajectory of the club which he cannot seem to address.

But I am not too sure there is another manager who can do better.  I appreciate its entirely subjective and based on pure speculation, so there is no point debating it too much, but when I look at the things he is struggling with I don't think they are things entirely down to his ability I think they are more reflective of the quality of player he has to work with.  Perhaps he could be more adaptive to the limitations of his squad, but that would result in some very boring football (i.e. to shore it up at the back we create even less up front, and with poor finishers at the club we're basically playing for 1-0 wins and that isn't sustainable either).

I've personally seen enough in his system and belief of how for us to play to think he can have some success, but with one of the worst teams in the league he's going to get some of the worst results - that's to be expected.  Anyone who thinks this squad is any better than bottom 5 is a dreamer.  It's frustrating how we collapse in second halves but also it is surprising to me to see us play so well in the first half.  That doesn't excuse not being able to sort the second half of the games but the positive of the first halves shouldn't be ignored.

Anyway - Ralph can improve but we're talking about fine margins and the bigger issue is at an investment level and no manager can fight money - at least no manager in history has been able to over a period of time.  It kills you, and a lack of it is killing us.

The game is 90 minutes long, playing well for 20 or 30 of those minutes only is NOT a positive it’s a blaring negative as born out by results and the terrible standard of football produced for the other 60 minutes….

[It's There]

Wenger anyone?

[OttawaSaint]

1 hour ago, nta786 said:

“I think the first goal changed the momentum completely. We had, until that moment, absolute control of the game, and kept them in their half,” Hasenhüttl said.

“But it’s always the same – if you don’t take something out of this momentum, and you concede the first chance and the first goal, then it is definitely a booster for them. That’s normal."

These were Ralph's words from the official site. My question to Ralph then why is it that if we ever get the first goal, it's not a booster for us and we end up dropping points or even losing? 

He's fucking delusional.

[Teddeer]

3 hours ago, Harry_SFC said:

Out team is pretty average but we need to be harder to beat. You know we have two crap centre backs so why not try and protect them a bit more. Maybe try 3 in midfield? This obsession with 2 upfront and 2 in midfield in every game we play is our downfall. 

We can't possibly stray from Ralph's brilliant play book which every other manager in the Premier League is desperately trying to get a copy of. 

[harvey]

He's getting paid a huge amount of money to make the same mistakes over and over again without any consequences.....quite unbelievable.

[Ex Lion Tamer]

1 hour ago, Teddeer said:

We can't possibly stray from Ralph's brilliant play book which every other manager in the Premier League is desperately trying to get a copy of. 

Man Utd's new manager is using it and indeed invented it

[Singapore Saint]

10 hours ago, nta786 said:

“I think the first goal changed the momentum completely. We had, until that moment, absolute control of the game, and kept them in their half,” Hasenhüttl said.

“But it’s always the same – if you don’t take something out of this momentum, and you concede the first chance and the first goal, then it is definitely a booster for them. That’s normal."

These were Ralph's words from the official site. My question to Ralph then why is it that if we ever get the first goal, it's not a booster for us and we end up dropping points or even losing? 

I'm sure he means boost, not booster, but these are unusual times we're living in.

[Nemi]

17 hours ago, Badger said:

Some good points in your post. However although you say you're positive there's a manager to save us, fourteen paragraph's later you've not identified or suggested one. 

Agree with your conclusion though.

Well I guess my point is that there’s probably a manager somewhere who will get lucky and get a short-term new manager bounce to save us. Who this person would be I’d have no idea - it’s probably based on pure chance.

 

But if there aren’t wholesale changes to the club they’ll certainly just find themselves in the same mess 12 months later with everyone calling for their head again.

 

I’d rather not become a team who scrapped relegation while chopping and changing manager each year. But I think by simply sacking Hasenhuttl while everything else stays the same, that’s what would happen.

 

This club needs a complete fresh start IMO.

[Christophenburg]

15 hours ago, Ex Lion Tamer said:

Man Utd's new manager is using it and indeed invented it

That's because the system itself isn't the problem, it's the delivery and execution of that system from our gaffer. Similarly Liverpool and Leeds apply variations, Bielsa is famous for it (known as the Bielsa Burnout). In fact it's really not that unique, plenty of teams and managers apply it or variations of it - Marsch at Salzburg and Leipzig, Nagelsmann at Hoffenheim, Lepizig and now at Bayern, even Farke at Norwich! And many of these managers inherited a high pressing game from their predecessor managers. Whether the club can even afford to sack Ralph and replace him with a similar manager, like Favre or Marsch who are both out of work, attempt to poach someone like Weinzierl (Augsburg), Schmidt (Eindhoven), Stoger (Hungary somewhere I think), or even a lower budget gamble like Herrlich, Hannes Wolf, Ernest Faber or Achim Beierlorzer, is the ultimate barrier though. I think Ralph feels pretty secure, the club seem comparatively happy, and everything else is an irrelvenance.

For me personally, I can't see anything changing, and I think our team is better then it is performing at the moment, so I'd gamble on Marsch or Favre if we stood a chance of attracting them.

Edited 13 December, 2021 by Christophenburg

[notnowcato]

I really like Ralph as a person, no doubt, but he should have gone in October. 2021 has been a shit shower. 

[skintsaint]

I feel he probably should be moved on but looking around who do you bring in? Had a good look at who is available and no one really sticks out.

Edited 14 December, 2021 by skintsaint

[Charlie Wayman]

Ralph seemed very distracted and downbeat at his press conference, do you think Palace is his last throw of the  dice?

[Kenilworthy]

2 minutes ago, Charlie Wayman said:

Ralph seemed very distracted and downbeat at his press conference, do you think Palace is his last throw of the  dice?

No I think it is Brentford. Fail to win and he is gone.

[Toussaint]

7 minutes ago, Charlie Wayman said:

Ralph seemed very distracted and downbeat at his press conference, do you think Palace is his last throw of the  dice?

I refer back to Semmens interview on gteh TSP again, paraphrased - Ralph was excused last year because of the injuries and lack of squad depth, we have addressed the squad issues over the summer, over to you Ralphie boy.

 

In Ralph's position I'd be feeling really nervous. "It's a funny old game" as a wise man once said, a good return from our next two and we are right up there, a poor return then its getting a really squeaky bum time, which I'm not sure he'd survive, the stakes are just too high.  

[Teddeer]

Good return or poor return? Pretty obvious how it's going to go if you have been watching Saints and Ralph's tactics/strategy lately. Don't think we're suddenly going to put in two decent performances with good results. Still, he'll have the injuries to use as a ready made excuse and, in some ways, that's a relevant argument I guess.

[Toussaint]

1 hour ago, Teddeer said:

Good return or poor return? Pretty obvious how it's going to go if you have been watching Saints and Ralph's tactics/strategy lately. Don't think we're suddenly going to put in two decent performances with good results. Still, he'll have the injuries to use as a ready made excuse and, in some ways, that's a relevant argument I guess.

The crazy situation with the table at the moment is 2 wins and we could be 12th , two defeats and we could be bottom 3. We'll probably muddle through somewhere in the middle. I keep looking back to how fortunate we were to meet Leeds with 5 first team regulars missing and Villa at their lowest ebb who were also struggling with injuries. 

[Matthew Le God]

As things currently stand Saints have moved above Leeds, despite us not playing. Hasenhüttl is clearly magic! 

[Roo1976]

8 hours ago, Toussaint said:

I refer back to Semmens interview on gteh TSP again, paraphrased - Ralph was excused last year because of the injuries and lack of squad depth, we have addressed the squad issues over the summer, over to you Ralphie boy.

 

In Ralph's position I'd be feeling really nervous. "It's a funny old game" as a wise man once said, a good return from our next two and we are right up there, a poor return then its getting a really squeaky bum time, which I'm not sure he'd survive, the stakes are just too high.  

Why feel nervous hes a millionaire no panic money in the bank move on,if he were to be sacked still gonna be a millionaire.

[Lord Duckhunter]

It’s ok. Ralph has spoken, he’s worked out that we need to work on scoring more goals. That’s why these guys get paid mega bucks, they see things  layman just can’t. Working on scoring goals, didn’t think of that one. 
 

 

[Patrick Bateman]

20 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

It’s ok. Ralph has spoken, he’s worked out that we need to work on scoring more goals. That’s why these guys get paid mega bucks, they see things  layman just can’t. Working on scoring goals, didn’t think of that one. 
 

 

Jesus wept. 

[Turkish]

24 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

It’s ok. Ralph has spoken, he’s worked out that we need to work on scoring more goals. That’s why these guys get paid mega bucks, they see things  layman just can’t. Working on scoring goals, didn’t think of that one. 
 

 

Why did he not quote our XG? 

[MarkSFC]

27 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

It’s ok. Ralph has spoken, he’s worked out that we need to work on scoring more goals. That’s why these guys get paid mega bucks, they see things  layman just can’t. Working on scoring goals, didn’t think of that one. 
 

 

And that's why he needs to go. 🤦🤦🤦🤦

[Pilchards]

Very funny Ralph that you think the problem is we don’t score enough goals.

I actually think our problem is we concede too many goals.

Set the team up to not concede in 90 minutes and you already have yourself a point.

[Give it to Ron]

3 hours ago, Pilchards said:

Very funny Ralph that you think the problem is we don’t score enough goals.

I actually think our problem is we concede too many goals.

Set the team up to not concede in 90 minutes and you already have yourself a point.

I actually think he is the problem tactically naive

[Maggie May]

I’m torn over Ralph. I wouldn’t have expected us to get a point at Arsenal away (one of our bogey fixtures every year) but definitely something from Norwich (a win) and Brighton (a point at least).

We did achieve that point against Brighton, but it should have been three thanks to a dreadful individual error. The Norwich defeat was embarrassing but those two howlers from McCarthy were some of the worst I’ve ever seen. 

If those results weren’t down to errors, we’d have five more points than we do now, putting us around mid-table. Perhaps confidence would have been a lot higher against Arsenal if we had.

I do feel for him in that sense.

But yes, we do need to be putting our chances away when we dominate and should know how to hold onto wins. 

[Maggie May]

That said, I still think his throwing under the bus of McCarthy was inexcusable. 

[Dman]

8 minutes ago, Maggie May said:

I’m torn over Ralph. I wouldn’t have expected us to get a point at Arsenal away (one of our bogey fixtures every year) but definitely something from Norwich (a win) and Brighton (a point at least).

We did achieve that point against Brighton, but it should have been three thanks to a dreadful individual error. The Norwich defeat was embarrassing but those two howlers from McCarthy were some of the worst I’ve ever seen. 

If those results weren’t down to errors, we’d have five more points than we do now, putting us around mid-table. Perhaps confidence would have been a lot higher against Arsenal if we had.

I do feel for him in that sense.

But yes, we do need to be putting our chances away when we dominate and should know how to hold onto wins. 

I get what you’re saying, however I’d suggest 99% of those who are in the Ralph Out camp haven’t made their mind up based on those couple of results. 

Results have been diabolical for a significant amount of time now, coming up to a calendar year and time and time again we make the same mistakes.  

You can lose a game on individual mistakes and I’d say the Norwich and Brighton games show that, just as much as you can win on individual brilliance (I.e Ings run of form and JWP’s free kicks in 2020), however, he’s had 3 years in the job and we still see the same individual mistakes… he’s had more than enough time to coach it out of, or replace them. 
 

My biggest gripe is his lack of tactical flexibility in game. It’s a big factor in our lack of game management. 
 

for me, Ralph seems to be a decent manager during the week and sets us up to start well, however in game, he’s way to slow to react and it costs us. 

[Billy the Kidd]

15 minutes ago, Dman said:

I get what you’re saying, however I’d suggest 99% of those who are in the Ralph Out camp haven’t made their mind up based on those couple of results. 

Results have been diabolical for a significant amount of time now, coming up to a calendar year and time and time again we make the same mistakes.  

You can lose a game on individual mistakes and I’d say the Norwich and Brighton games show that, just as much as you can win on individual brilliance (I.e Ings run of form and JWP’s free kicks in 2020), however, he’s had 3 years in the job and we still see the same individual mistakes… he’s had more than enough time to coach it out of, or replace them. 
 

My biggest gripe is his lack of tactical flexibility in game. It’s a big factor in our lack of game management. 
 

for me, Ralph seems to be a decent manager during the week and sets us up to start well, however in game, he’s way to slow to react and it costs us. 

See this is interesting. I was listening to the latest TSP yesterday and they said the manager doesn’t actually have that much influence during the game. 

This came after saying how well Ralph sets them up in the week to be great for 35 mins or whatever. 

The thing that confused me is I think that is horse shit. How is it almost every manager responds to our early dominance and makes tactical changes to combat our game plan? That is in game management they said managers don’t have an influence on. 

Ralph started the season well like he had learned from last year but I feel he has now regressed to form and looks lost on the touch line. 
 

[nta786]

11 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

It’s ok. Ralph has spoken, he’s worked out that we need to work on scoring more goals. That’s why these guys get paid mega bucks, they see things  layman just can’t. Working on scoring goals, didn’t think of that one. 
 

 

I really wouldn't look into these quotes much. 

Of course he is going to say the blindingly obvious, do you want him to give away the tactics of how we will go about scoring goals?

Mind you, recently there doesn't seem to be any but you get my point - these people are media trained to keep it simple. 

[Alan Sugarfree]

The thing with Ralph is, it’s never his fault.

[TWar]

40 minutes ago, nta786 said:

I really wouldn't look into these quotes much. 

Of course he is going to say the blindingly obvious, do you want him to give away the tactics of how we will go about scoring goals?

Mind you, recently there doesn't seem to be any but you get my point - these people are media trained to keep it simple. 

That and within the context of the quote he's not just saying "we need more goals", he's pointing out that we have made chances but haven't been clinical enough. Which is still a reasonably straightforward observation, but atleast gives some insight, especially since last season our chance creation was very poor and it has definitely improved.

[Fitzhugh Fella]

When he goes we will struggle to find another manager (especially if he is foreign)  who pays as much attention to the academy. This is Ralph’s big strength imo as he actually takes an interest in the whole club set up. But his day to day, match to match, weaknesses outweigh this attribute which is why, sooner or later, the axe must fall. Maybe there is room for him upstairs (if he is interested) because he has something to offer away from the actual football on the day. 

[Christophenburg]

31 minutes ago, Fitzhugh Fella said:

When he goes we will struggle to find another manager (especially if he is foreign)  who pays as much attention to the academy. This is Ralph’s big strength imo as he actually takes an interest in the whole club set up. But his day to day, match to match, weaknesses outweigh this attribute which is why, sooner or later, the axe must fall. Maybe there is room for him upstairs (if he is interested) because he has something to offer away from the actual football on the day. 

I don't agree with this. There are plenty of managers on the continent who are adept at developing pathways through the academy into the first team. They might not attend every youth game like Ralph does, but realistically that's not actually paying any dividends at the moment so not a huge loss

[pimpin4rizeal]

58 minutes ago, Christophenburg said:

I don't agree with this. There are plenty of managers on the continent who are adept at developing pathways through the academy into the first team. They might not attend every youth game like Ralph does, but realistically that's not actually paying any dividends at the moment so not a huge loss

Also a lot of Ralph’s treatment of the youngsters has been questionable, gave valery a run and loaned out Cedric, then next season Cedric back and valery completely out of favour.

obafemi had a run of looking like he was gonna break through again all of a sudden out in the cold again, now we have tella who looked like breaking through last season but up until recently again same thing ..

jankiewics also didn’t get any chance after the Man Utd horror show..

we can question if these youngsters were good enough but Ralph’s treatment seems a bit random

[TWar]

10 minutes ago, pimpin4rizeal said:

Also a lot of Ralph’s treatment of the youngsters has been questionable, gave valery a run and loaned out Cedric, then next season Cedric back and valery completely out of favour.

obafemi had a run of looking like he was gonna break through again all of a sudden out in the cold again, now we have tella who looked like breaking through last season but up until recently again same thing ..

jankiewics also didn’t get any chance after the Man Utd horror show..

we can question if these youngsters were good enough but Ralph’s treatment seems a bit random

To be fair with those:

1) Valery got his chance and was wank as a fullback. He might be better as a wingback or RCB going forwards (doubt it) but that was just a case of giving him a chance and him not taking it

2) Obafemi was constantly injured, which really derailed him. Also, he also isn't great. He's really struggling with Swansea, having scored just one goal and secured one solitary start since the start of the season

3) Tella is a decent player, but he is still a little way off. He has to earn his spot, and it looks like he has for now (will see when Stu is fit again). He has raw talent but I don't think he is a nailed prem starter as yet. He needs a little fine tuning.

4) Jankewitz, in hindsight, probably also wasn't that great. He had a chance when basically everyone was injured and he blew it with an act of stupidity. There wasn't a perfect storm like that where everyone was out so he didn't get another chance. Apparently a bad attitude and has barely started for his new team, being benched for every champions league qualifier, every champions league game, and making only 3 sub appearances in the super league.

Honestly, I guess the question is were the youngsters good enough, and the answer is no. We have the second youngest average 11 this season after arsenal so playing younger players is clearly something we do do.

Edited 15 December, 2021 by TWar

[Fitzhugh Fella]

1 hour ago, Christophenburg said:

I don't agree with this. There are plenty of managers on the continent who are adept at developing pathways through the academy into the first team. They might not attend every youth game like Ralph does, but realistically that's not actually paying any dividends at the moment so not a huge loss

But a lot (Puel, Koeman and Pellegrino) weren’t bothered. Foreign managers never anticipate staying that long. In a way we are also a stepping stone club for managers too. 

[pimpin4rizeal]

34 minutes ago, TWar said:

To be fair with those:

1) Valery got his chance and was wank as a fullback. He might be better as a wingback or RCB going forwards (doubt it) but that was just a case of giving him a chance and him not taking it

2) Obafemi was constantly injured, which really derailed him. Also, he also isn't great. He's really struggling with Swansea, having scored just one goal and secured one solitary start since the start of the season

3) Tella is a decent player, but he is still a little way off. He has to earn his spot, and it looks like he has for now (will see when Stu is fit again). He has raw talent but I don't think he is a nailed prem starter as yet. He needs a little fine tuning.

4) Jankewitz, in hindsight, probably also wasn't that great. He had a chance when basically everyone was injured and he blew it with an act of stupidity. There wasn't a perfect storm like that where everyone was out so he didn't get another chance. Apparently a bad attitude and has barely started for his new team, being benched for every champions league qualifier, every champions league game, and making only 3 sub appearances in the super league.

Honestly, I guess the question is were the youngsters good enough, and the answer is no. We have the second youngest average 11 this season after arsenal so playing younger players is clearly something we do do.

Yeah maybe, I just think it’s a little strange the way he looks like he believes in a youngster just to suddenly turn cold on them so fast.

im not really obsessed with playing kids myself anyway unless they are exceptional talents .

the vast majority of great players we brought through as kids looked the business from a early age think of the likes of bale/Walcott/shaw/le tiss/shearer/bridge all of them came in and looked great from the get go

[TWar]

15 minutes ago, pimpin4rizeal said:

Yeah maybe, I just think it’s a little strange the way he looks like he believes in a youngster just to suddenly turn cold on them so fast.

im not really obsessed with playing kids myself anyway unless they are exceptional talents .

the vast majority of great players we brought through as kids looked the business from a early age think of the likes of bale/Walcott/shaw/le tiss/shearer/bridge all of them came in and looked great from the get go

Yeah agreed, play kids if they are good, not if they are not. Salisu is like a month older than Tella, and he's my player of the season so far. Livramento is probably the best teenager in the league (since Greenwood turned 20 in october!) and he starts every game. If Valery and Jank were up to it they would have started a lot, they weren't so they didn't. Simple as that imo.

Edited 15 December, 2021 by TWar

[notnowcato]

1 hour ago, Fitzhugh Fella said:

But a lot (Puel, Koeman and Pellegrino) weren’t bothered. Foreign managers never anticipate staying that long. In a way we are also a stepping stone club for managers too. 

Firstly, "foreign managers", really??  Fcuk me, it will be Carlos Kickaball next.  

Secondly, we're a stepping stone if they're any good, that would apply to 2 managers we've had in the past 20 years.

Edited 15 December, 2021 by notnowcato

[notnowcato]

On 14/12/2021 at 01:03, skintsaint said:

I feel he probably should be moved on but looking around who do you bring in? Had a good look at who is available and no one really sticks out.

Frank Lampard would be my choice, hopefully we'd be a stepping stone for him 

[Golac's Cunning Stunts]

8 hours ago, TWar said:

That and within the context of the quote he's not just saying "we need more goals", he's pointing out that we have made chances but haven't been clinical enough. Which is still a reasonably straightforward observation, but atleast gives some insight, especially since last season our chance creation was very poor and it has definitely improved.

I honestly wonder if hasenhuttl is paying you to make these posts. Talk about clutching at straws.