Ralph Hasenhuttl

[Sarisbury Saint]

1 minute ago, TWar said:

I knew of their numbers and a decent consensus from those who watch them regularly. Tbh for me this is more valuable than having watched them a few times. If I can watch them every week then I'd feel happy going against these things but that will never be the case for players we are signing as I only watch saints every week.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m willing for Armstrong to come good but he’s way off at the moment.

 To me Adams never looked a natural goal scorer when he came in and still doesn’t. But he had such good strength and could hold and protect the ball so well that you could see he had something different to offer.

I’m just not seeing anything with Armstrong yet, but hope you can come back and prove me wrong.

[TWar]

7 minutes ago, Sarisbury Saint said:

Don’t get me wrong, I’m willing for Armstrong to come good but he’s way off at the moment.

 To me Adams never looked a natural goal scorer when he came in and still doesn’t. But he had such good strength and could hold and protect the ball so well that you could see he had something different to offer.

I’m just not seeing anything with Armstrong yet, but hope you can come back and prove me wrong.

Armstrong is lightning fast, two footed, great dribbler and gets in good positions. He just finishes like someone low on confidence. I still have faith he'll be a very good signing. Me changing my mind and saying Broja is better than him atm is not a reflection on Armstrong, Broja has just exploded into an absolute baller.

[egg]

1 hour ago, Turkish said:

Some people think Ralph never does anything wrong, even when he admitted he was wrong himself. 

Yep. He had a shocking period, and it was a tad odd to read people argue that he had not made mistakes that he admitted making. The corner appears to have been turned though. 

Edited 23 January, 2022 by egg

[The Kraken]

42 minutes ago, TWar said:

Previous performances throughout their careers

That’s a very poor statistical base to draw from in this particular case. I think you’ve realised your mistake, sort of, so we’ll move on.

[TWar]

6 minutes ago, The Kraken said:

That’s a very poor statistical base to draw from in this particular case. I think you’ve realised your mistake, sort of, so we’ll move on.

It was all we had at the time. I wouldn't write academic literature on it but it's fine for a speculative opinion on an internet forum.

[John B]

8 minutes ago, The Kraken said:

That’s a very poor statistical base to draw from in this particular case. I think you’ve realised your mistake, sort of, so we’ll move on.

 

8 minutes ago, The Kraken said:

That’s a very poor statistical base to draw from in this particular case. I think you’ve realised your mistake, sort of, so we’ll move on.

My daughters brother-inlaw told me in the Autumn a Chelsea Fan ho had seen him player for Chelsea that Broja was the Dogs Bollix so I believed him

 

 

[The Kraken]

31 minutes ago, TWar said:

It was all we had at the time. I wouldn't write academic literature on it but it's fine for a speculative opinion on an internet forum.

It wasn’t all we had though. We had our own eyes, on what he did for Saints. I think that’s where your your statistical analysis fell down, maybe.

[Lord Duckhunter]

1 hour ago, TWar said:

 saying Broja is better than him atm is not a reflection on Armstrong, 

That wasn’t the debate. The debate was who had the “higher ceiling” 😂

[Convict Colony]

Well this thread has gone to shit.

All I know no one is ever right but only on saintsweb do you have to be.

The overall progress this  season has been positive for me.

Both Ralph and the Squad have shown us options that we didn't know we had last season.

It reflects well on all of them, hierarchy, manager and players.

 

 

[Rivers]

6 hours ago, Dman said:

f**k me, you really are a boring c**t mate, aren’t you. 

Oh, the irony. 😂

You seem to have absolutely zero self awareness of the way you come across on here, infecting every thread with your unique brand of relentless drivel.

You are by far the worst poster on this forum, by a country mile. And that in itself, is some achievement.

 

 

Edited 23 January, 2022 by Rivers
Added to post.

[nta786]

Isn’t hindsight a wonderful thing... 

Time to begin with a clean slate given that almost everyone agrees Ralph belongs in the hot seat for a while yet. 

Edited 24 January, 2022 by nta786

[Dman]

13 hours ago, Rivers said:

Oh, the irony. 😂

You seem to have absolutely zero self awareness of the way you come across on here, infecting every thread with your unique brand of relentless drivel.

You are by far the worst poster on this forum, by a country mile. And that in itself, is some achievement.

 

 

Cheers, top feedback. 

Perhaps the mods should add a ‘bio’ to each profile. I can wear “by far the worst poster on this forum” as a medal. 

[tajjuk]

I do find it ironic that one of the people who has taken over the club is probably one of the most successful and earliest adopters of using statistics in football, at a time when on this forum we seem to have more and more ignorant anti-stats people. 

 

Edited 24 January, 2022 by tajjuk

[Give it to Ron]

21 minutes ago, tajjuk said:

I do find it ironic that one of the people who has taken over the club is probably one of the most successful and earliest adopters of using statistics in football, at a time when on this forum we seem to have more and more ignorant anti-stats people. 

 

Why are they ignorant because they are anti-stats?

I trust my eyesight and been going to watch professional Saints football for over 55 years. I played decent level I can tell when a player is having a mare.

I can tell when the managers formation doesn’t work and when needs to make a sub - if that makes me ignorant explain 

 

[tajjuk]

20 minutes ago, Give it to Ron said:

Why are they ignorant because they are anti-stats?

I trust my eyesight and been going to watch professional Saints football for over 55 years. I played decent level I can tell when a player is having a mare.

I can tell when the managers formation doesn’t work and when needs to make a sub - if that makes me ignorant explain 

 

It's ignorance because a wealth of objective statistics will inform a lot more than than your narrow, biased view. 

Your 'experience' is that of a limited fan nothing more, if you were actually a top class talent at watching and understanding football you'd be doing it professionally at the highest level (and pretty much all them are using a huge amount of data). You are a fan nothing more, with your biases and limited view that then informs your opinion, which in turn makes your opinion limited. It's ignorant to think your 'experience' outweighs a vast array of objective data and information because you must be ignorant of what the data can tell you and how much it can tell you or its massive massive arrogance that you think your opinion outweighs it. 

Data and analytics is modern football and it's what is driving the best teams and best recruitment, I mean it is literally how a club like Brentford pushed way above their resources to reach the premier league whilst other Championship clubs full of parachute payments and bigger budgets floundered. 

---------------------------

 

Anyway, the City game proved how damn good a manager Ralph is, and how stupid it would be to sack him. We drew (and almost beat) a peak Man City side that had won 12 in a row, managed by the best manager in the world, and we didn't get that result through luck, or because they played really badly (they actually played very well) but because our manager tactically set up the team very well and coached/instructed them excellently to execute that plan. 

(and it's the second time he's done it this season, and City even learned from the first time we drew with them and played even better). 

Man City are a juggernaut of a football club, not only do they probably have something like 5 or 6 times our wage budget and 10 times our spend, with probably their back ups easily taking 80% of our starting spots, but beyond just splashing so much cash, they have recruited wisely for their system with players who have formed a great team who probably work as hard as anyone in the league.  Yet our team managed to bridge that difference and match them, now that was us probably playing peak peak level, which is the issue, we can't hit those levels consistently because our players simply aren't that level Man City have because we can't spent £50 million or more on every position. We haven't also for a long time had good enough players in most positions, relying on maybe a core 5 or 6 to carry most of the team and if they went down or didn't perform we got the horrible form we saw last year. Keep getting more and more players who fit Ralph's system and improve the quality a little across the whole 11-16 and I reckon we'll see even better performances and results because we have a very good manager. 

Edited 24 January, 2022 by tajjuk

[Give it to Ron]

Where have I stated a narrow biased view on stats? What is my view only I don’t need them to see what’s happening where have I said they are not important?

you are  making that up to suit your long winded b/s. Where have I said my views outweigh anything ….again your making things up 

So in stats a team like Swansea have 65% possession in a game passing between goalkeepers and defenders - they play West Ham who win 3-0 lump and run what’s the most important stat here ? 
Yes they have a place and can see the value but could I have seen that with my ‘experience’ that stats can be irrelevant too?

Edited 24 January, 2022 by Give it to Ron

[Give it to Ron]

Could a fan see that a change in formation has seen an upturn in performance? Does a fan need to look at a stat to see changeing the keeper, having one of your best players playing in his best position, having a left footer giving balance and a forward on fire need stats?

[Lord Duckhunter]

Fat Sam was using data, analytics and statistics last century, so it’s not quite as modern as the hipsters think. 

[Tamesaint]

8 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Fat Sam was using data, analytics and statistics last century, so it’s not quite as modern as the hipsters think. 

Very true and somewhat contrary to his popular image.

Someone on this forum recommended  "Football Hackers" by Christoph Biermann. It is a good read and makes you realise that there are many different forms of stats. I guess the skill comes in knowing how to use them. 

[Dman]

6 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Fat Sam was using data, analytics and statistics last century, so it’s not quite as modern as the hipsters think. 

Exactly, they’ve been around for ages and the famous ‘black box’ was basically just a data storage tool. As you said, nothing new. 

I don’t think anyone is ‘anti stats’, you’d have to be stupid to be as they can be very useful. However, they’re not the be all and end all. 

If anyone think Brentford were signing players based on stats alone, you’re wrong. As with any club, they would physically watch the player in the flesh as well. 
 
Data can be a good way to identify targets but there are so many differing factors, it’s just stupid to compare x with x based on stats. As shown by the Armstrong and Broja debate. Upon arrival, Armstrong looked the better player (on paper), but it was clear the minute Broja stepped on the pitch he was going to be a future star… you don’t need to be for or against stats to determine that. 

Blackburn clearly have a style which enables strikers to get Plenty of chances to score (as shown by Brenton, this season) and also had Harvey Elliott who was a fantastic, creative player in that division. Whilst his ‘stats’ may have been decent, IIRC, a few Blackburn fans had doubts about his ability to step up and basically said he scores so many because he has so many shots (I.e poor / average conversion). 

[Gru]

This article is interesting https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/59954007

It includes the following quote: 

"Many people can judge actuality - the whole data thing is based on this - but you cannot measure potential. That is the key."

[Dman]

They can also be very misleading. For example, someone compared Redmond to Buendia the other day stating the stats determine Redmond is a better player (it was clearly nonsense then as much as it is now). 

Gerrard has found a system since the arrival of couthino, which has since drastically improved the output of Buendia. 

Again, on paper Redmond may look better, but watch the 2 and you’d see Buendia is considerably better. 
 

The long and short and last I’ll comment on the matter is to not try and be clever by using stats to support an argument which is clearly nonsense. Watch a player before you make a judgement. 

[Toadhall Saint]

30 minutes ago, Tamesaint said:

Very true and somewhat contrary to his popular image.

Someone on this forum recommended  "Football Hackers" by Christoph Biermann. It is a good read and makes you realise that there are many different forms of stats. I guess the skill comes in knowing how to use them. 

This is so true esp the last sentence. Stats on their own will not give you a complete picture/answer the skill is asking the right questions of the data and using the answer to confirm or deny the experience you are getting.

[ozzmeister]

Volendam (ref the BBC article shared earlier) look like an ideal club to be part of the group of clubs that Saints will be involved with.

[Convict Colony]

7 hours ago, Gru said:

This article is interesting https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/59954007

It includes the following quote: 

"Many people can judge actuality - the whole data thing is based on this - but you cannot measure potential. That is the key."

Thanks been to volendam plenty of times and I'm sure they tell the inter Milan players it's in Amsterdam 😂😂

Will keep an eye out now for them.

[Dman]

On 23/01/2022 at 12:42, TWar said:

Ralph has always been class. Last season we had no squad depth and a bunch of injuries fucked us. This season we have a much better squad. Simple as that.

Claims of Ralph being less stubborn, or changing as a manager are not true. He just has more options now due to some good squad building. People saying "why doesn't he just do something different?" would get responses of "how? Our squad has no good options". Now the squad has good options, he does something different, and we look good. What a surprise...

Those who said "Ralph is fine, he just needs a few good signings" were right and are being proven as such. Those who said "Ralph is shite" and are now coming on here to say how much he has improved are ridiculous tbh. The squad has improved.

Confirmed to be absolutely true, by the man himself…. LOL
 

https://theathletic.com/3096228/2022/01/27/ralph-hasenhuttl-is-showing-signs-of-increased-flexibility-and-southampton-are-seeing-the-benefits/?source=freedailyemail&campaign=601983

[TWar]

5 minutes ago, Dman said:

Confirmed to be absolutely true, by the man himself…. LOL
 

https://theathletic.com/3096228/2022/01/27/ralph-hasenhuttl-is-showing-signs-of-increased-flexibility-and-southampton-are-seeing-the-benefits/?source=freedailyemail&campaign=601983

I don't have an athletic membership, you'll have to quote specifics.

[Dman]

8 minutes ago, TWar said:

I don't have an athletic membership, you'll have to quote specifics.

“I cannot say that I prefer the 4-2-2-2 the most now,” Hasenhuttl recently said. “I prefer to be flexible. It makes it harder for the opponent to look at you and it makes it more interesting to prepare for a game.”

Most people’s issues where that he was reluctant to move away from his preferred formation. He’s confirmed himself, he now flexible. 

[TWar]

3 minutes ago, Dman said:

“I cannot say that I prefer the 4-2-2-2 the most now,” Hasenhuttl recently said. “I prefer to be flexible. It makes it harder for the opponent to look at you and it makes it more interesting to prepare for a game.”

Most people’s issues where that he was reluctant to move away from his preferred formation. He’s confirmed himself, he now flexible. 

I didn't argue he doesn't play a wider array of styles now. I said he didn't have the option to do so back then due to lack of squad depth and quality and now he does. It is less to do with him and more to do with the means at his disposal. If you read the entire post you are quoting I'd say that is reasonably clear.

Again though, I haven't read the article, does he comment on that?

[Billy the Kidd]

[Toadhall Saint]

[Greenridge]

Have we not binned him off yet? Useless sod hasn’t won a point since Saturday. 

[The Left Back]

f**k me are you two still at it@Dman and @TWar ? Don’t you get bored of this?

[Toadhall Saint]

2 hours ago, The Left Back said:

f**k me are you two still at it@Dman and @TWar ? Don’t you get bored of this?

It’s about point scoring which in their world is siooooo important but in everyone else’s it’s soooooo fooooookin boring.

[Dman]

19 minutes ago, Toadhall Saint said:

It’s about point scoring which in their world is siooooo important but in everyone else’s it’s soooooo fooooookin boring.

Who’s winning? 
 

15 - love dman tonight.

 

Edited 28 January, 2022 by Dman

[ErwinK1961]

18 minutes ago, Dman said:

Who’s winning? 
 

15 - love dman tonight.

 

Cock swinging on a football forum on a Friday night? Not sure ‘winning’ is the word.

[Toadhall Saint]

23 minutes ago, Dman said:

Who’s winning? 
 

15 - love dman tonight.

 

It all depends on the use of var. then it’s open to interpretation (which var was supposed to get rid of).

[Turkish]

On 25/01/2022 at 13:47, Lord Duckhunter said:

Fat Sam was using data, analytics and statistics last century, so it’s not quite as modern as the hipsters think. 

And the same people say he’s a dinosaur 🤔

[sadoldgit]

On 25/01/2022 at 13:47, Lord Duckhunter said:

Fat Sam was using data, analytics and statistics last century, so it’s not quite as modern as the hipsters think. 

It doesn’t make him some kind of footballing genius. The very person your moniker mocks was lauded as ahead of his time by some further up the food chain and brought in Woodwood to much derision. You don’t seem to rate Ralph very highly. Would you rather have Fat Sam?

[farawaysaint]

6 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

It doesn’t make him some kind of footballing genius. The very person your moniker mocks was lauded as ahead of his time by some further up the food chain and brought in Woodwood to much derision. You don’t seem to rate Ralph very highly. Would you rather have Fat Sam?

Yeah we had an eye gym ahead of pretty much everyone on the curve and things like that have become standard.

Unfortunately there needs to be balance and there is little point having fancy tools if your players and recruitment are rubbish.

[Toadhall Saint]

36 minutes ago, Turkish said:

And the same people say he’s a dinosaur 🤔

He is! Last centuries stats? Cmon nowhere near as good as this centuries so last century 

[Turkish]

1 minute ago, Toadhall Saint said:

He is! Last centuries stats? Cmon nowhere near as good as this centuries so last century 

Did they have XGs and false 9s in the 90s?

[Toadhall Saint]

50 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Did they have XGs and false 9s in the 90s?

f**k knows. I can’t remember much about the 90,s to be honest 😎. Which I’m more than happy about! 😀

[Turkish]

12 minutes ago, Toadhall Saint said:

f**k knows. I can’t remember much about the 90,s to be honest 😎. Which I’m more than happy about! 😀

[egg]

16 minutes ago, Toadhall Saint said:

f**k knows. I can’t remember much about the 90,s to be honest 😎. Which I’m more than happy about! 😀

Ditto! An all but forgotten decade. I think it was good though. 

[Chris cooper]

1 minute ago, egg said:

Ditto! An all but forgotten decade. I think it was good though. 

Good !? It was bangin ! 👍🏻

[Whitey Grandad]

There is a throwaway comment in TheTimes this morning.

”Frank Lampard will lift Everton gloom but faces immediate test of his credentials”

 

“Lampard may have ended as the unanimous choice of a tortuous process, but that is different to being first choice. Indeed, it is worth recapping why it has taken Everton two weeks to replace Rafa Benítez.

The first choice was Roberto Martínez, a move which was instantly spiked by the Belgian FA’s understandable refusal to allow him to perform a job share in a World Cup year.

Duncan Ferguson was supposed to be in caretaker charge for “upcoming games” which offered a chance to press his claims. That was abandoned after the 1-0 defeat by Aston Villa last Saturday despite the fact Ferguson was subsequently handed an interview at 24 hours’ notice. Lampard has asked Ferguson to remain on his staff.

Portuguese coach Vítor Pereira then became the preferred option, with the proposed inclusion of a break clause in his contract that could be triggered at the end of the season effectively making him an interim appointment.

This would give Everton the chance to regroup in the summer when a better array of candidates were available. Or at least ones they had a better chance of seducing once the season was over. Southampton’s Ralph Hasenhüttl was the main target.”

[Toadhall Saint]

14 hours ago, Whitey Grandad said:

There is a throwaway comment in TheTimes this morning.

”Frank Lampard will lift Everton gloom but faces immediate test of his credentials”

 

“Lampard may have ended as the unanimous choice of a tortuous process, but that is different to being first choice. Indeed, it is worth recapping why it has taken Everton two weeks to replace Rafa Benítez.

The first choice was Roberto Martínez, a move which was instantly spiked by the Belgian FA’s understandable refusal to allow him to perform a job share in a World Cup year.

Duncan Ferguson was supposed to be in caretaker charge for “upcoming games” which offered a chance to press his claims. That was abandoned after the 1-0 defeat by Aston Villa last Saturday despite the fact Ferguson was subsequently handed an interview at 24 hours’ notice. Lampard has asked Ferguson to remain on his staff.

Portuguese coach Vítor Pereira then became the preferred option, with the proposed inclusion of a break clause in his contract that could be triggered at the end of the season effectively making him an interim appointment.

This would give Everton the chance to regroup in the summer when a better array of candidates were available. Or at least ones they had a better chance of seducing once the season was over. Southampton’s Ralph Hasenhüttl was the main target.”

They can fook off. 

[Saint86]

On 28/01/2022 at 20:53, Turkish said:

Did they have XGs and false 9s in the 90s?

Jesting aside, BFS used what was an early precursor of expected goals to analyse player positioning outside the box for freekicks and corners etc.

[Holmes_and_Watson]

6 hours ago, Saint86 said:

Jesting aside, BFS used what was an early precursor of expected goals to analyse player positioning outside the box for freekicks and corners etc.

I remember seeing BFS on a Saturday morning show alongside, I think it was Peter Reid.

BFS was light years ahead. Reid had taken Sunderland to 2 7th placed finishes (and I think they fell to finish 7th in those seasons), not that long before.