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The Ralph Hasenhuttl Thread


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7 hours ago, cambsaint said:

A sensible and rational person only changes a manager is there is a better one readily available.

I'm not and never have been a great believer in RH's tactical ability.

However we drew against three very good teams, two of which can pay ten times as much for a player with no problem

R H has to work with what he's got and can afford, and it looks as if for the foreseeable future our main ambition is avoiding relegation

The negativity on this board and the desire to blame players for mistakes is beyond belief at times.

Could any of the armchair critics find a better manager who's prepared to come and is affordable?

This team is pretty much Ralph’s team, are you aware of that? He has been here three years, and the club did a great job moving on most of the deadwood in the summer,

I’m not sure how could any fans know if a possible manager would be prepared to come.

That is the job of the club to convince them, which follow the last part of your sentence - affordability. Ralph is very well paid, c. £6m per annum, I think we could afford manager which could help attracting someone. 

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6 hours ago, Minsk said:

He was awesome for a whole calendar year before that. There are well documented reasons for our failings post January. You don't agree with them, others do.

We were 6 unbeaten before Wolves. I don't call that abysmal. You obviously do.

Almost everyone was saying what a horrid start to the season we had, even before a ball was kicked. We have lost 2 matches thus far, the latter despite being the better team (18 shots to their 5; 6 on target to their 3; far more completed passes; etc) and we only lost because Bednarek let himself get bullied whilst Salisu slipped on his arse. I am certain had Jack Stephens been available and partnered Mo Jiminez wouldn't have got that goal. Still, I'm sure it is Ralph's fault that Stephens is injured, Salisu slipped on his arse and Bednarek got bullied. From the same 6 matches last season we lost 5. Therefore, losing 2 is an improvement. A sensible and rational person sticks with a manager who is improving his team's performances.

I'm not calling for his head quite yet, I'm saying that it's not unreasonable if others do so. For me he has credit for our start to the season and Man City. I'm putting Sunday down to a bad day at the office, and some bad luck. Personally, I think he got the team selection right, although Long on rather than Tella was odd

On a side note, people who blame Bednarek for Sundays game are missing the fact that the golden boy got caught up field meaning Bednarek got pulled over. Sure, he was weak, and a better CB would have dealt with that situation, but Tino left us a man short. 

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8 hours ago, cambsaint said:

A sensible and rational person only changes a manager is there is a better one readily available.

I'm not and never have been a great believer in RH's tactical ability.

However we drew against three very good teams, two of which can pay ten times as much for a player with no problem

R H has to work with what he's got and can afford, and it looks as if for the foreseeable future our main ambition is avoiding relegation

The negativity on this board and the desire to blame players for mistakes is beyond belief at times.

Could any of the armchair critics find a better manager who's prepared to come and is affordable?

A better manager? You wouldn’t have to be that exceptional a manager to play the best players in their best positions,  and make the tight tactical and personnel changes when required. He massively over complicates things.

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8 hours ago, cambsaint said:

Could any of the armchair critics find a better manager who's prepared to come and is affordable

I always find this line of argument incredibly tiresome. It's basically exactly the same argument you could use to not have sacked Mark Hughes in the first place.

Hasenhuttl wasn't appointed following some poll of the fanbase.

Edited by CB Fry
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25 minutes ago, Toussaint said:

A better manager? You wouldn’t have to be that exceptional a manager to play the best players in their best positions,  and make the tight tactical and personnel changes when required. He massively over complicates things.

Exactly this, it is his inability to play to the players strengths and continue to try and shoehorn players into his preferred formation that gets to me. On Sunday our entire left side were cutting back on as they were so right footed.

A good manager would look at what was available and play to what he had.

 

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14 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

I always find this line of argument incredibly tiresome. It's basically exactly the same argument you could use to not have sacked Mark Hughes in the first place.

Hasenhuttl wasn't appointed following some poll of the fanbase.

Yep. It's like staying in an unhappy relationship because you've yet to line up a replacement. A mindset I don't get. 

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7 minutes ago, Bob76 said:

Exactly this, it is his inability to play to the players strengths and continue to try and shoehorn players into his preferred formation that gets to me. On Sunday our entire left side were cutting back on as they were so right footed.

A good manager would look at what was available and play to what he had.

 

Perraud isn't great. Ralph probably expected Traore to play, and he'd have annihilated Perraud. His choice was Perraud or an out of position KWP.

When you're between a rock or a hard place, you'll get whacked whichever way you turn. 

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Sorry don't agree with that at all I think that Perraud has been ok and is better going forward than KWP on the left. It is also a bit of a thing for Ralph to play players out of position. A trait that I don't think helps at all. Also playing KWP with Redmond in front of him nullified that whole side as an attacking threat.

Edited by Bob76
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8 minutes ago, Bob76 said:

Sorry don't agree with that at all I think that Perraud has been ok and is better going forward than KWP on the left. It is also a bit of a thing for Ralph to play players out of position. A trait that I don't think helps at all. Also playing KWP with Redmond in front of him nullified that whole side as an attacking threat.

We all see it differently mate. Perraud has been dropped for a reason, and when he played at Sheff Utd he got beaten badly for their first goal. Had Traore played, KWP would have dealt with him better than Perraud imo.

Djenepo gives the ball away too often. Ralph has poor options down the left and, for me, he picked the least worse one against Wolves. 

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1 hour ago, egg said:

We all see it differently mate. Perraud has been dropped for a reason, and when he played at Sheff Utd he got beaten badly for their first goal. Had Traore played, KWP would have dealt with him better than Perraud imo.

Djenepo gives the ball away too often. Ralph has poor options down the left and, for me, he picked the least worse one against Wolves. 

Perraud reminds me of Jeremy Pied. He's OK as a squad player but he's never going to be in the same class as players like Walker-Peters and Livramento.

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3 hours ago, Billy the Kidd said:

Not at all, and I’m not saying Ralph should go immediately. I’ve posed the Q of how long should he have, as we can’t stay winless forever without taking action. 

Although we do need to get into the habit of beating the teams around us as that will largely tell us our true position and not the games against the top sides. Wolves were around us and they are the ones we don’t want talking there points of us.

My view was 7-10 games, am interested in what others thought. I also think the carry over off last season’s form is relevant as not winning games now isn’ta blip, it is a rut and teams in this type of run find it hard to get out of it. This is my major concern, and I have concerns if Ralph can get us out of it. 

The 2-4 games post Chelsea will be key for me, if we don’t get a win in either of the first two after, I think Ralph will be in huge trouble. I’d love for him to beat Chelsea or the team after them and go on a run, but I think the club and fans be have stuck by him and I can see that changing. 

Are you saying you will stick with Ralph no matter what or is there a point where you will have had enough?

You posted to Egg that a sensible, rational person sticks with a manager who is improving performance and I don’t disagree, but you can’t do a like for like v teams last season and say that is a direct improvement, when considering our form over a long period. 

We couldn’t beat Everton away, whilst I acknowledge a historically hard place for us when being 1 up. We couldn’t beat a terrible Newcastle team for the 2nd year running, Utd were poor, although we were good that day and we were great v City. The fact is we really ought to have for one or two victories in that and the fact we er didn’t is concerning.

 Like I said previously, I think the next free games will tell us if he will stay, I hope he does as it means we are winning games, but surely you can accept people have concerns?

I do get why there are concerns and I too was expecting a couple of wins by now (I had Newcastle and Wolves in mind). I think Ralph has got us playing some decent football. We haven't been played off the park once (apart from maybe 2nd half at Everton). Indeed, at many times we have been the better team. The problem is, of course, being the better team and then not scoring or winning doesn't do anything. I also think Ralph himself has improved with his willingness to change formations and has (Long aside) made far better sub decisions this season. That said, you are quite right in that the line needs to be drawn somewhere if we remain winless.

Personally, I think he should be given until at least Guy Fawkes Night. If no wins by then I fully expect fireworks and a rocket up his arse. That is the Villa match. It would give the incoming an international break followed by a match against Norwich. That said, I believe that if he were to be sacked it would use up what little funds we have for trading in December. And there is no guarantee his successor would be any better.

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3 hours ago, egg said:

I'm not calling for his head quite yet, I'm saying that it's not unreasonable if others do so. For me he has credit for our start to the season and Man City. I'm putting Sunday down to a bad day at the office, and some bad luck. Personally, I think he got the team selection right, although Long on rather than Tella was odd

On a side note, people who blame Bednarek for Sundays game are missing the fact that the golden boy got caught up field meaning Bednarek got pulled over. Sure, he was weak, and a better CB would have dealt with that situation, but Tino left us a man short. 

Fully agree with everything in your first paragraph. 

Yes, Tino was caught up field. We had been attacking. His width on the right was our main threat. Jiminez got the ball from a long by the 'keeper. Hardly Tino's fault. There were 2 CBs against 1 striker. Absolutely they should have stopped him. Bednarek could have rugby tackled Jiminez and would only have got a yellow with Salisu covering.Not that I'm saying he should have done so, but he should have been more 'clever'. Did you notice how many times Marcal simply completely body-checked Moi without anything being given? Bednarek was primarily at fault, with Salisu a close second (should have stayed on his feet).

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2 hours ago, egg said:

Perraud isn't great. Ralph probably expected Traore to play, and he'd have annihilated Perraud. His choice was Perraud or an out of position KWP.

When you're between a rock or a hard place, you'll get whacked whichever way you turn. 

I too think he started KWP with Troare in mind. Faster and more experienced. That said, maybe not, as when Troare was brought on he took KWP off and switched Salisu to LB to cover him. I thought that was strange, but Troare barely touched the ball at all......

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1 hour ago, Minsk said:

I do get why there are concerns and I too was expecting a couple of wins by now (I had Newcastle and Wolves in mind). I think Ralph has got us playing some decent football. We haven't been played off the park once (apart from maybe 2nd half at Everton). Indeed, at many times we have been the better team. The problem is, of course, being the better team and then not scoring or winning doesn't do anything. I also think Ralph himself has improved with his willingness to change formations and has (Long aside) made far better sub decisions this season. That said, you are quite right in that the line needs to be drawn somewhere if we remain winless.

Personally, I think he should be given until at least Guy Fawkes Night. If no wins by then I fully expect fireworks and a rocket up his arse. That is the Villa match. It would give the incoming an international break followed by a match against Norwich. That said, I believe that if he were to be sacked it would use up what little funds we have for trading in December. And there is no guarantee his successor would be any better.

Yep agree with all this 👍

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Said it before, but the danger of having a dogmatic "philosophy" manager is if/when their philosophy turns out to be fucking useless. Where do they go then? The egomaniac's written his own football "bible" FFS. He's not going to admit he's full of shit.

It'll be the same with Leeds and Bielsa. If their form continues to flatline, he'll walk away before he admits his methods are wrong. Same as he's always done.

We're a piece of piss to play against. Most sides have our number by now: let us have the ball and we haven't got a clue what to do with it as the only way we can "create" chances is by winning possession high up the pitch. Then wait for us to overcommit and hit us on the break, as we've got a two man midfield who can't run - or simply just wait for an inevitable defensive/goalkeeping mistake to provide an opportunity on a plate.

The "philosophy" is actually half decent against the best sides as they want to control possession and build from the back, which gives us plenty of chances to intercept in dangerous areas - we'll probably give a reasonable account of ourselves at Chelsea. But plucky performances and the odd point here and there against the big guns is small comfort if you can't beat the lesser teams. Which we can't.

Can a different manager get a tune out of this squad? We'll never know unless we try. They might unlock something by throwing the bible into the Solent and trying to play actual football, though.

Something's got to give, I'm afraid. 

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2 hours ago, Minsk said:

Fully agree with everything in your first paragraph. 

Yes, Tino was caught up field. We had been attacking. His width on the right was our main threat. Jiminez got the ball from a long by the 'keeper. Hardly Tino's fault. There were 2 CBs against 1 striker. Absolutely they should have stopped him. Bednarek could have rugby tackled Jiminez and would only have got a yellow with Salisu covering.Not that I'm saying he should have done so, but he should have been more 'clever'. Did you notice how many times Marcal simply completely body-checked Moi without anything being given? Bednarek was primarily at fault, with Salisu a close second (should have stayed on his feet).

Bednarek could have killed that attack by attacking the ball and not the player. All he had to do was head it back upfield. Instead he went upfield to get tight on Jimenez and the ball sailed over his head by which time he was on the turn and bound to get out-muscled. There's an old saying about centre halves which goes "Dont' let the ball touch the ground.

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4 hours ago, egg said:

Perraud isn't great. Ralph probably expected Traore to play, and he'd have annihilated Perraud. His choice was Perraud or an out of position KWP.

When you're between a rock or a hard place, you'll get whacked whichever way you turn. 

I admit to being a bit agricultural tactically, but, when we play a team that is around our level, at home, why are we so worried about nullifying them and in the process nullifying ourselves? I'd have happily taken the risk with Peraud, I think he may have created a goal or two had he had the 3 or more chances to whip a ball in that KWP had and fluffed, given he is on hs wrong foot. It didn't have to be Djneppo in front of him, there is Diallo as an extra midfield option, there is Tella, there are probably other combos, or, there is Redmond who was picked. Why didn't we let Wolves worry about us? 

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6 minutes ago, qwertyell said:

Said it before, but the danger of having a dogmatic "philosophy" manager is if/when their philosophy turns out to be fucking useless. Where do they go then? The egomaniac's written his own football "bible" FFS. He's not going to admit he's full of shit.

It'll be the same with Leeds and Bielsa. If their form continues to flatline, he'll walk away before he admits his methods are wrong. Same as he's always done.

We're a piece of piss to play against. Most sides have our number by now: let us have the ball and we haven't got a clue what to do with it as the only way we can "create" chances is by winning possession high up the pitch. Then wait for us to overcommit and hit us on the break, as we've got a two man midfield who can't run - or simply just wait for an inevitable defensive/goalkeeping mistake to provide an opportunity on a plate.

The "philosophy" is actually half decent against the best sides as they want to control possession and build from the back, which gives us plenty of chances to intercept in dangerous areas - we'll probably give a reasonable account of ourselves at Chelsea. But plucky performances and the odd point here and there against the big guns is small comfort if you can't beat the lesser teams. Which we can't.

Can a different manager get a tune out of this squad? We'll never know unless we try. They might unlock something by throwing the bible into the Solent and trying to play actual football, though.

Something's got to give, I'm afraid. 

We’ll said mate.

I long for a manager who looks at the players we’ve got and picks a system to suit them. Not a bloke who wants to play the same way every fucking week and shoe horn players into “his” system. You also end up with the situation where every fucking team we play knows exactly how we’re going to play, and can therefore prepare for that easily. It’s ok for the better sides because their talent will shine through regardless, so it doesn’t really matter if you know how they’ll play. We chuck Long & the big fella on, and still play Ralph ball. No matter who plays in our midfield it’s sideways, backwards, slowly. It’s like they’re all programmed. They’re like Stepford fucking Wives . 

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50 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

I long for a manager who looks at the players we’ve got and picks a system to suit them. Not a bloke who wants to play the same way every fucking week and shoe horn players into “his” system. You also end up with the situation where every fucking team we play knows exactly how we’re going to play, and can therefore prepare for that easily. It’s ok for the better sides because their talent will shine through regardless, so it doesn’t really matter if you know how they’ll play. We chuck Long & the big fella on, and still play Ralph ball. No matter who plays in our midfield it’s sideways, backwards, slowly. It’s like they’re all programmed. They’re like Stepford fucking Wives . 

We had two stand out players last year, Armstrong and KWP. Ok one is injured but what of the other one ? Hes dropped him for an 18 year old, albeit a very very good one, and when he does play him he sticks him over on the left. Its not fair on the player. Now anyone worth their salt would surely look at Tino and immediately think, umm, rampaging forward, comfortable on the ball, decent cross.....lets try him right side of midfield with KWP behind him and offering the overlap......umm, that could be a real threat. But no, lets go with Redmond, Moi or Djenepo instead and let the kid run himself into the ground both attacking and defending while the guy in front of him - Redmond, Djenepo or Moi carry on being totally ineffective. Its fkin crazy he heasnt tried it yet !!!   

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Our opening sequence of games was a tough start for us, we've played well in games where I didn't expect much and not reached the expected outcome in the 2 games where we could / should have got something from.  It was those 2 games where I was hoping to see a change in us, at least an indicator that the tide is turning, that we're on the right course.  We're clearly at a cross roads, if we don't get a minimum of 3 points from our next 3 games then I think Ralph is gone.  It brings me no pleasure in thinking this, I like Ralph, as a character I think he's exemplary and when things were good they were very good but now it sadly feels like a change is on the horizon.

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1 hour ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

We’ll said mate.

I long for a manager who looks at the players we’ve got and picks a system to suit them. Not a bloke who wants to play the same way every fucking week and shoe horn players into “his” system. You also end up with the situation where every fucking team we play knows exactly how we’re going to play, and can therefore prepare for that easily. It’s ok for the better sides because their talent will shine through regardless, so it doesn’t really matter if you know how they’ll play. We chuck Long & the big fella on, and still play Ralph ball. No matter who plays in our midfield it’s sideways, backwards, slowly. It’s like they’re all programmed. They’re like Stepford fucking Wives . 

What would Tuchel do?  I think it's fairly obvious with the squad we have, taking into account where our strengths lie, TT would be experimenting with 3 at the back, not sure whether that would mean a 4 or 5 man midfield.  

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2 hours ago, qwertyell said:

Said it before, but the danger of having a dogmatic "philosophy" manager is if/when their philosophy turns out to be fucking useless. Where do they go then? The egomaniac's written his own football "bible" FFS. He's not going to admit he's full of shit.

It'll be the same with Leeds and Bielsa. If their form continues to flatline, he'll walk away before he admits his methods are wrong. Same as he's always done.

We're a piece of piss to play against. Most sides have our number by now: let us have the ball and we haven't got a clue what to do with it as the only way we can "create" chances is by winning possession high up the pitch. Then wait for us to overcommit and hit us on the break, as we've got a two man midfield who can't run - or simply just wait for an inevitable defensive/goalkeeping mistake to provide an opportunity on a plate.

The "philosophy" is actually half decent against the best sides as they want to control possession and build from the back, which gives us plenty of chances to intercept in dangerous areas - we'll probably give a reasonable account of ourselves at Chelsea. But plucky performances and the odd point here and there against the big guns is small comfort if you can't beat the lesser teams. Which we can't.

Can a different manager get a tune out of this squad? We'll never know unless we try. They might unlock something by throwing the bible into the Solent and trying to play actual football, though.

Something's got to give, I'm afraid. 

We are a piece of piss to play against yet City, United and West Ham couldn’t beat us and they are three quality teams. Wolves barely had a sniff and won with a route one goal. There are a number of much worse teams than us, Wolves being one. The defence looks much better this season but at the expense of our attack, but even then we have created plenty of openings which haven’t been taken. If Ings was still here I expect we would be higher up the table. 

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2 hours ago, qwertyell said:

Said it before, but the danger of having a dogmatic "philosophy" manager is if/when their philosophy turns out to be fucking useless. Where do they go then? The egomaniac's written his own football "bible" FFS. He's not going to admit he's full of shit.

It'll be the same with Leeds and Bielsa. If their form continues to flatline, he'll walk away before he admits his methods are wrong. Same as he's always done.

We're a piece of piss to play against. Most sides have our number by now: let us have the ball and we haven't got a clue what to do with it as the only way we can "create" chances is by winning possession high up the pitch. Then wait for us to overcommit and hit us on the break, as we've got a two man midfield who can't run - or simply just wait for an inevitable defensive/goalkeeping mistake to provide an opportunity on a plate.

The "philosophy" is actually half decent against the best sides as they want to control possession and build from the back, which gives us plenty of chances to intercept in dangerous areas - we'll probably give a reasonable account of ourselves at Chelsea. But plucky performances and the odd point here and there against the big guns is small comfort if you can't beat the lesser teams. Which we can't.

Can a different manager get a tune out of this squad? We'll never know unless we try. They might unlock something by throwing the bible into the Solent and trying to play actual football, though.

Something's got to give, I'm afraid. 

 

6 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

We are a piece of piss to play against yet City, United and West Ham couldn’t beat us and they are three quality teams. Wolves barely had a sniff and won with a route one goal. There are a number of much worse teams than us, Wolves being one. The defence looks much better this season but at the expense of our attack, but even then we have created plenty of openings which haven’t been taken. If Ings was still here I expect we would be higher up the table. 

 

Can confidently say I fluctuate between these two opinions on a daily basis. Weird.

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2 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

We are a piece of piss to play against yet City, United and West Ham couldn’t beat us and they are three quality teams. Wolves barely had a sniff and won with a route one goal. There are a number of much worse teams than us, Wolves being one. The defence looks much better this season but at the expense of our attack, but even then we have created plenty of openings which haven’t been taken. If Ings was still here I expect we would be higher up the table. 

I agree 

 

Surely the problem at the moment the two strikers are really not top class and we lack Stu Armstrong and as yet JWP has not provided any Free Kick goals

 

I think we may struggle to score goals as we no longer have Ings but apparently sacking Ralph is the answer but I do not understand why a new manager will get more out of Adams and Armstrong

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3 minutes ago, John B said:

I agree 

 

Surely the problem at the moment the two strikers are really not top class and we lack Stu Armstrong and as yet JWP has not provided any Free Kick goals

 

I think we may struggle to score goals as we no longer have Ings but apparently sacking Ralph is the answer but I do not understand why a new manager will get more out of Adams and Armstrong

See I’m not sure we can write off the two strikers yet, as we’ve set up to be hard to beat and haven’t got the balance right on attacking intent. Hopefully we will once the Chelsea game is done, although we could also win that one out of the blue. 

A new manager is likely to play a different style, so could yield different results. Btw, I’m not sure you responded yesterday when i asked you how long you’d give Ralph if we still can’t win, apologies if I missed it, but can’t recall seeing it. 

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6 hours ago, egg said:

We all see it differently mate. Perraud has been dropped for a reason, and when he played at Sheff Utd he got beaten badly for their first goal. Had Traore played, KWP would have dealt with him better than Perraud imo.

Djenepo gives the ball away too often. Ralph has poor options down the left and, for me, he picked the least worse one against Wolves. 

So when Traore wasn’t picked and KWP wasn’t working couldn’t cross for toffee something you can’t accuse Perraud of why didn’t he change it? Moussa offered more in 10 mins than rest of the game with Redmond and KWP on left

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5 minutes ago, Billy the Kidd said:

See I’m not sure we can write off the two strikers yet, as we’ve set up to be hard to beat and haven’t got the balance right on attacking intent. Hopefully we will once the Chelsea game is done, although we could also win that one out of the blue. 

A new manager is likely to play a different style, so could yield different results. Btw, I’m not sure you responded yesterday when i asked you how long you’d give Ralph if we still can’t win, apologies if I missed it, but can’t recall seeing it. 

I do not understand why we should sack him without new players quality players we will not succeed

 

I watched our first game in Div we had Paine Davies Chivers and Sydenham we just do not have that calidbe of  player anymore and even with them we struggled

 

We have only had relative success when we had top class players but none of them despite them being pretty good stands out and puts in regular high class performances

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@John B - please see below:

I do not understand why we should sack him without new players quality players we will not succeed

This is largely Ralphs squad now, he has been here 3 years. Our squad is better than the last 12 months results. He got pretty much the players he wanted this summer.

I watched our first game in Div we had Paine Davies Chivers and Sydenham we just do not have that caliber of  player anymore and even with them we struggled

I get that, but our squad is still better than results indicate.

We have only had relative success when we had top class players but none of them despite them being pretty good stands out and puts in regular high class performances

There are more to games and winning than individual brilliance.

Again, you still won't answer how long you are prepared to go winless, whilst complaining about people that open to it or at least understand why.

Any new manager will play a different style, and Ralph is playing a style that is virtually impossible for the players to work in. Any manager has to use the skills available to them, and play in such a way as to get the most out of the players at their disposal.

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4 hours ago, qwertyell said:

Said it before, but the danger of having a dogmatic "philosophy" manager is if/when their philosophy turns out to be fucking useless. Where do they go then? The egomaniac's written his own football "bible" FFS. He's not going to admit he's full of shit.

It'll be the same with Leeds and Bielsa. If their form continues to flatline, he'll walk away before he admits his methods are wrong. Same as he's always done.

We're a piece of piss to play against. Most sides have our number by now: let us have the ball and we haven't got a clue what to do with it as the only way we can "create" chances is by winning possession high up the pitch. Then wait for us to overcommit and hit us on the break, as we've got a two man midfield who can't run - or simply just wait for an inevitable defensive/goalkeeping mistake to provide an opportunity on a plate.

The "philosophy" is actually half decent against the best sides as they want to control possession and build from the back, which gives us plenty of chances to intercept in dangerous areas - we'll probably give a reasonable account of ourselves at Chelsea. But plucky performances and the odd point here and there against the big guns is small comfort if you can't beat the lesser teams. Which we can't.

Can a different manager get a tune out of this squad? We'll never know unless we try. They might unlock something by throwing the bible into the Solent and trying to play actual football, though.

Something's got to give, I'm afraid. 

Most likely our Premiership status.

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1 hour ago, Billy the Kidd said:

@John B - please see below:

I do not understand why we should sack him without new players quality players we will not succeed

This is largely Ralphs squad now, he has been here 3 years. Our squad is better than the last 12 months results. He got pretty much the players he wanted this summer.

 

Ralph has used 20 players in the first team so far this season. 10 of those were here when he arrived. An 11th, S. Armstrong, would certainly have also been used had he not had an injury. Of the starting 11 on Sunday 6 were here when he arrived, with a 7th coming off the bench. 3 of the unused subs were also here when Ralph arrived. So, at best, 50% is Ralph's.

And if you were right in that most of the squad was his, particularly all those brought in this summer, wouldn't that go some way against the weight of probability of him being sacked? Why buy the players a manager wants, to fit his system, to then get rid of him half-a-dozen matches into the season to bring in a manager with a different philosophy/set-up? 

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7 minutes ago, Minsk said:

Ralph has used 20 players in the first team so far this season. 10 of those were here when he arrived. An 11th, S. Armstrong, would certainly have also been used had he not had an injury. Of the starting 11 on Sunday 6 were here when he arrived, with a 7th coming off the bench. 3 of the unused subs were also here when Ralph arrived. So, at best, 50% is Ralph's.

And if you were right in that most of the squad was his, particularly all those brought in this summer, wouldn't that go some way against the weight of probability of him being sacked? Why buy the players a manager wants, to fit his system, to then get rid of him half-a-dozen matches into the season to bring in a manager with a different philosophy/set-up? 

What I mean by his squad isnt that he has replaced 20 players with 20 of his own, he has got rid of the deadwood he didnt want. The players here are ones he wanted. There is no reason he couldnt have tried to offload Redmond, Moi Ely, Djneppo, maybe others if he wanted, but it looks to me like he wanted them around.

Im not saying he will get sacked, i dont want him sacked, yet. But your second para doesnt stand up for me Minsk, in that the club backed him, brought players he wanted, and whilst they dont want to sack him after 6 games (which to be fair I said Id give him 10), they clearly cant let the awful run of not winning games carry on forever.

If they did pull the trigger, maybe after 10 games due to not winning, why cant the club find someone who plays a similar way? Or failing that, if the way we play is the real problem, after all it didnt work out playing this way for so long, maybe they need to change that too.

This is all hypothetical, as I image we will pick up wins pretty soon, but it is worth raising. Our squad is better than what Ralph is able to get out of the team results wise. I dont think we are top 10, but I dont think we are constant relegation form, which has largely been the case all year.

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6 minutes ago, Minsk said:

Ralph has used 20 players in the first team so far this season. 10 of those were here when he arrived. An 11th, S. Armstrong, would certainly have also been used had he not had an injury. Of the starting 11 on Sunday 6 were here when he arrived, with a 7th coming off the bench. 3 of the unused subs were also here when Ralph arrived. So, at best, 50% is Ralph's.

And if you were right in that most of the squad was his, particularly all those brought in this summer, wouldn't that go some way against the weight of probability of him being sacked? Why buy the players a manager wants, to fit his system, to then get rid of him half-a-dozen matches into the season to bring in a manager with a different philosophy/set-up? 

Possibly an error of judgement, they are not football people running the club, they obviously have or had faith in Ralph, or have gone so far down the Raph road they hoping and praying it all works out? I had the impression clubs didn't run that way anymore, investing everything in the manager, who if he leaves, necessitates complete rebuilding, like the old days of the Harry Redknapp  "my way or the highway" types.

 

You'd also have to say they are all his players now, regardless of whether has signed them or not, as they are only still here because he wants them here?  

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3 hours ago, beatlesaint said:

We had two stand out players last year, Armstrong and KWP. Ok one is injured but what of the other one ? Hes dropped him for an 18 year old, albeit a very very good one, and when he does play him he sticks him over on the left. Its not fair on the player. Now anyone worth their salt would surely look at Tino and immediately think, umm, rampaging forward, comfortable on the ball, decent cross.....lets try him right side of midfield with KWP behind him and offering the overlap......umm, that could be a real threat. But no, lets go with Redmond, Moi or Djenepo instead and let the kid run himself into the ground both attacking and defending while the guy in front of him - Redmond, Djenepo or Moi carry on being totally ineffective. Its fkin crazy he heasnt tried it yet !!!   

But we don't play with wide attacking midfielders. If you look at where our AMs/10s usually play they are more like inside forwards, Moi especially so. Moi does not play in front of Tino. Moreover, Tino was bought as a RB and has probably been our best player in the half-dozen matches to date. Yes it is harsh on KWP not getting to play in his favoured position, but the reason for that is a young man doing exceptionally well. Not really sure you can say Ralph choosing a new, young, player who has been outstanding is a bad thing. And it isn't 'fkin crazy' he hasn't tried Tino in a completely different position to the one he has been playing so well in just because you want to see him there. Yes, it would be a nice experiment. I might have given it a go if I were the manager, but who knows until it is your head on the block? It is all good and well for anyone to say what they would do 'in theory' but when push comes to shove that may not always be what we would really do.

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3 minutes ago, Billy the Kidd said:

What I mean by his squad isnt that he has replaced 20 players with 20 of his own, he has got rid of the deadwood he didnt want. The players here are ones he wanted. There is no reason he couldnt have tried to offload Redmond, Moi Ely, Djneppo, maybe others if he wanted, but it looks to me like he wanted them around.

Im not saying he will get sacked, i dont want him sacked, yet. But your second para doesnt stand up for me Minsk, in that the club backed him, brought players he wanted, and whilst they dont want to sack him after 6 games (which to be fair I said Id give him 10), they clearly cant let the awful run of not winning games carry on forever.

If they did pull the trigger, maybe after 10 games due to not winning, why cant the club find someone who plays a similar way? Or failing that, if the way we play is the real problem, after all it didnt work out playing this way for so long, maybe they need to change that too.

This is all hypothetical, as I image we will pick up wins pretty soon, but it is worth raising. Our squad is better than what Ralph is able to get out of the team results wise. I dont think we are top 10, but I dont think we are constant relegation form, which has largely been the case all year.

But he hasn't replaced 20 with 20 of his own. He has brought in 10 of the current first team squad on permanent contracts plus one more on loan. I get all the rest you are saying but your argument that this is (largely) his squad is wrong. It is half his.

Also, this season he has been trying different things. We have played numerous different formations, both from the start and switching  during matches.

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10 minutes ago, Toussaint said:

Possibly an error of judgement, they are not football people running the club, they obviously have or had faith in Ralph, or have gone so far down the Raph road they hoping and praying it all works out? I had the impression clubs didn't run that way anymore, investing everything in the manager, who if he leaves, necessitates complete rebuilding, like the old days of the Harry Redknapp  "my way or the highway" types.

 

You'd also have to say they are all his players now, regardless of whether has signed them or not, as they are only still here because he wants them here?  

Or because no one put in bids for them we deemed acceptable. Pretty sure a few would have been sold had we had the right offers. Come to that, all of them would have been sold if we had the right offers. They certainly aren't here just because Ralph refused to sell them. 

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22 minutes ago, Golac's Cunning Stunts said:

So looking at Ralphs salary and the 21 points haul so far this year, it comes in at something like £215k per point. Pretty expensive!

How much was he paid per point for his 2020 haul?

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The bottom line is that we need to win some matches to stay up. I don't believe Ralph is brave enough to go for wins, he is more inclined to set us up to keep things tight and hope we nick a result. One win is obviously worth 3 points whereas our mentality seems to be that we are happy to scrape the odd point here and there. We have to be braver and far more adventurous or this trend of draws and losses will continue. I get that Ralph is nervous because of the two 9 nils but he has to forget those and get us playing to win matches. This timid approach is killing us and making us dreadful to watch whilst not getting the wins that would see us climb the table. Unfortunately, I think Ralph is too set in his little world of tactics which clearly are not working.

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2 hours ago, Give it to Ron said:

So when Traore wasn’t picked and KWP wasn’t working couldn’t cross for toffee something you can’t accuse Perraud of why didn’t he change it? Moussa offered more in 10 mins than rest of the game with Redmond and KWP on left

I have no idea mate, question for Ralph, but we should know by now to expect shit substitutions. 

Moussa can be great in patches, but for me he'd play more if he wasn't so wasteful with the ball. 

The bottom line is he had the choice of starting an average LB or playing KWP there, or an average (on a good day) Redmond or a wasteful Moussa. 

Hobson's choice, and if he had gone the other way, people would probably still have whinged. 

 

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54 minutes ago, Minsk said:

But we don't play with wide attacking midfielders. If you look at where our AMs/10s usually play they are more like inside forwards, Moi especially so. Moi does not play in front of Tino. Moreover, Tino was bought as a RB and has probably been our best player in the half-dozen matches to date. Yes it is harsh on KWP not getting to play in his favoured position, but the reason for that is a young man doing exceptionally well. Not really sure you can say Ralph choosing a new, young, player who has been outstanding is a bad thing. And it isn't 'fkin crazy' he hasn't tried Tino in a completely different position to the one he has been playing so well in just because you want to see him there. Yes, it would be a nice experiment. I might have given it a go if I were the manager, but who knows until it is your head on the block? It is all good and well for anyone to say what they would do 'in theory' but when push comes to shove that may not always be what we would really do.

Why not try KWP in front of Tino? He is capable of taking players on and getting good delivery into the box so it is not beyond the realms of possibility that he could do a job on the right of midfield and form an exciting partnership with Tino.

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1 hour ago, Golac's Cunning Stunts said:

So looking at Ralphs salary and the 21 points haul so far this year, it comes in at something like £215k per point. Pretty expensive!

 

52 minutes ago, Minsk said:

How much was he paid per point for his 2020 haul?

Come on chaps. We all know calendar year stats are meaningless

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59 minutes ago, Minsk said:

But he hasn't replaced 20 with 20 of his own. He has brought in 10 of the current first team squad on permanent contracts plus one more on loan. I get all the rest you are saying but your argument that this is (largely) his squad is wrong. It is half his.

Also, this season he has been trying different things. We have played numerous different formations, both from the start and switching  during matches.

And I literally said last post, what i meant was he has the players he wants, he brought half and used half that were already here that he wanted to keep. So yes, half is his squad he brought, the other half is players he wanted to keep - for me that makes it pretty much his squad. You could literally go to any club and no manager changes every player, as some are good enough to warrant keeping, when they change out the ones they dont want for ones they do, and buy other players, and have been it situ for c. 3 years it pretty much is their squad.  I think you are being a little semantic with this one, but I do get what youre saying 👍

Oh and I do like the approach this season btw, i have been pretty impressed so far, but he still needs to address the balance of defence v attack. But simply we have to start winning games.

The Wolves game aside, we were unlucky not to beat Newcastle and should have beaten Utd and maybe City with the penalty.

I’m happy for him to be given more games just now, but the point, for me at least, is that we cant keep not winning, something would have to change, and I hope he gets his first win this season ion the next couple of games.

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1 hour ago, Minsk said:

But we don't play with wide attacking midfielders. If you look at where our AMs/10s usually play they are more like inside forwards, Moi especially so. Moi does not play in front of Tino. Moreover, Tino was bought as a RB and has probably been our best player in the half-dozen matches to date. Yes it is harsh on KWP not getting to play in his favoured position, but the reason for that is a young man doing exceptionally well. Not really sure you can say Ralph choosing a new, young, player who has been outstanding is a bad thing. And it isn't 'fkin crazy' he hasn't tried Tino in a completely different position to the one he has been playing so well in just because you want to see him there. Yes, it would be a nice experiment. I might have given it a go if I were the manager, but who knows until it is your head on the block? It is all good and well for anyone to say what they would do 'in theory' but when push comes to shove that may not always be what we would really do.

Agreed. Tino was signed as a RB, has been brilliant at RB, so everyone wants us to stop playing him as a RB. There's a logic there that I don't understand. 

Sure, KWP would want to play at RB, but Tino rightly has the shirt do either shuffles over to LB and fights for a place with Perraud, or he doesn't play. 

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51 minutes ago, Teddeer said:

Why not try KWP in front of Tino? He is capable of taking players on and getting good delivery into the box so it is not beyond the realms of possibility that he could do a job on the right of midfield and form an exciting partnership with Tino.

Because we don't play with wide midfielders. It wouldn't be 'in front of' Tino. It would be ahead of him but tucked inside. Go back and watch the Wolves match (if you dare) and look at the positions Moi was in for most of the match. Should answer your question.

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4 minutes ago, Minsk said:

Because we don't play with wide midfielders. It wouldn't be 'in front of' Tino. It would be ahead of him but tucked inside. Go back and watch the Wolves match (if you dare) and look at the positions Moi was in for most of the match. Should answer your question.

Maybe that's why we create the square root of diddly squat then.

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3 minutes ago, Teddeer said:

Maybe that's why we create the square root of diddly squat then.

Against Wolves: we had 18 shots to their 5; 6 on target to their 3.

Against City: we had 10 shots to their 16; 2 on target to their 1.

Against West Ham; we had 11 shots to their 13; both had 3 on target.

Against Newcastle: we had 22 shots to their 10; 6 on target to their 5.

Both Utd and Everton had around double our shots and more on target.

Creating isn't the problem; converting is.

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6 minutes ago, Minsk said:

Against Wolves: we had 18 shots to their 5; 6 on target to their 3.

Against City: we had 10 shots to their 16; 2 on target to their 1.

Against West Ham; we had 11 shots to their 13; both had 3 on target.

Against Newcastle: we had 22 shots to their 10; 6 on target to their 5.

Both Utd and Everton had around double our shots and more on target.

Creating isn't the problem; converting is.

We may be creating a few chances but from what I've seen not many of them are the result of the sort of classy moves that lead to clear cut opportunities. It's all a bit 'make it up as you go along' or 'hope for the best' football. Good sides play between the lines to create space, we don't.

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20 minutes ago, Minsk said:

Against Wolves: we had 18 shots to their 5; 6 on target to their 3.

Against City: we had 10 shots to their 16; 2 on target to their 1.

Against West Ham; we had 11 shots to their 13; both had 3 on target.

Against Newcastle: we had 22 shots to their 10; 6 on target to their 5.

Both Utd and Everton had around double our shots and more on target.

Creating isn't the problem; converting is.

Impressive stats, but I can’t recall many world class saves or dramatic goal line clearances. A lot of very speculative shots from outside the box and fumbled scuffs inside the box, and conversely not shooting when we should. As an aside,  I’m a big fan of jwp, but I can’t understand why he is so good at free kicks but can’t strike a moving ball.

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15 minutes ago, Toussaint said:

Impressive stats, but I can’t recall many world class saves or dramatic goal line clearances. A lot of very speculative shots from outside the box and fumbled scuffs inside the box, and conversely not shooting when we should. As an aside,  I’m a big fan of jwp, but I can’t understand why he is so good at free kicks but can’t strike a moving ball.

As I said, our problem is converting not creating. Though there certainly have been a couple of goal line clearances. (WHU comes immediately to mind).

Yes, JWP frustrates me in that sense too. He certainly can strike a moving ball and has scored a few decent goals (for us and England) doing just that. He just doesn't seem to try it often enough. There was one point on Sunday when I was screaming for him to hit it, but he passed instead (to Moi, I think, who then took a shot himself). 

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