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davefoggy

How we fans stop VAR forever?

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They aren’t behind play.

 

You appear to be living in a parallel universe where the match officials havn't been making glaring errors week-in week-out.

 

If anything, the use of VAR has shown how near impossible the linos job has been over the years. 13cm margin of error for VAR, it must be close to 6ft margin of error for some old bloke trying to run down a line and at the same time try and work out who's in line at the exact moment the ball is kicked in a completely different area of the pitch - all whilst receiving dogs abuse from thousands of ****ed up football fans.

 

And as we all know, any level of doubt and teams like Saints get **** all our favour when against a glamour side. Give me 13cm any day.

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But that's the whole point of the scenario I described above, the system as it stands simply doesn't have the accuracy to rule that he was 100% offside.

 

You seem to think that I want VAR to be scrapped, I don't. I just find it absolutely bizarre that people think the system doesn't operate without a margin of error. As I've said before on this thread, there's always some degree of standard deviation with any scientific measurement. Look at scales in the kitchen, when you weigh out 100g if pasta it doesn't weigh exactly 100g, it weighs 100g plus or minus the standard deviation/error of the scales in question. The same is undoubtedly true of VAR. People quite rightly want certainty from VAR regarding offside but you can only get that if the system is accurate enough. Is the tolerance of the system 1 millimetre, 1 centimetre or 1 nanometre? I've never seen anything published with regards to the systems tolerance to what distance it can accurately measure.

It doesn't have to 100% percent accurate to still be a big improvement on a bloke with a flag though....

 

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Exactly. We have not seen a single howler. Just fans getting up tight that marginal offsides are actually given.

 

dc636b46020c7a399d91c7cd22476b57.jpg

 

Silva's miles onside there. Linesmen never get a decision wrong and are far superior to VAR which can never get anything right.

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You appear to be living in a parallel universe where the match officials havn't been making glaring errors week-in week-out.

 

If anything, the use of VAR has shown how near impossible the linos job has been over the years. 13cm margin of error for VAR, it must be close to 6ft margin of error for some old bloke trying to run down a line and at the same time try and work out who's in line at the exact moment the ball is kicked in a completely different area of the pitch - all whilst receiving dogs abuse from thousands of ****ed up football fans.

 

And as we all know, any level of doubt and teams like Saints get **** all our favour when against a glamour side. Give me 13cm any day.

 

I used to referee so I know something about the requirements. You’re views are tinted by your loyalty. There simply aren't ‘glaring errors week-in week-out’. There may be decisions that you don’t agree with or don’t understand but that’s not because the officials are wrong.

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It doesn't have to 100% percent accurate to still be a big improvement on a bloke with a flag though....

 

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It needs to be a lot quicker to be of any use. Give me an official with a flag deciding in a second or two rather that someone with a blurry screen takeing over a hundred times as long.

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I used to referee so I know something about the requirements. You’re views are tinted by your loyalty. There simply aren't ‘glaring errors week-in week-out’. There may be decisions that you don’t agree with or don’t understand but that’s not because the officials are wrong.

 

Think you’re the one who’s views are tinted by loyalty. The lack of ability of the match officials to make the correct decisions was the reason VAR was brought in.

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It needs to be a lot quicker to be of any use. Give me an official with a flag deciding in a second or two rather that someone with a blurry screen takeing over a hundred times as long.

Whitey Grandad's TV:

 

41567f259d9808aa2fcfc82b9f6b5fa2.jpeg?impolicy=img_600

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I prefer the VAR bloke making the decision - he’s the one with the better view, slow mo replays etc. Plus he’s going to be less influenced by screaming fans and moaning players.

 

The only issue I have with VAR is the forensic offside analysis, streamline that and it’s fine IMO.

Exactly this. And the VAR is a professional referee, not some random bloke with a monitor. Plus having the on field ref going over to a monitor will slow the game down.

 

As others have said, change the offside rule so only feet positions count, and give the VAR 30 seconds max to make a decision. If he's not 100% certain, the goal stands. Occasionally a goal will be scored by a player 1 cm offside. Tough luck, take it on the chin, and move on. If it happens to us I wouldn't get apoplectic about it (unlike that Wembley call, and the Watford basketball player's "goal").

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We've benefited from 5/6 VAR decisions this year. I'm happy with it and never expected it to be perfect in its first season. Things were always going to go wrong, they just need to make sure they learn from it for next year.

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VAR is odd, Lacazette should have been sent off for his retailitary kick on the Leeds player IMO.

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Inconsistency is my main annoyance.

In Arsenal Leeds there was little, the use of cards was laughable - that inconsistency is spilling into VAR too, which suggests it's the guys implementing it who need to get their act together.

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We've benefited from 5/6 VAR decisions this year. I'm happy with it and never expected it to be perfect in its first season. Things were always going to go wrong, they just need to make sure they learn from it for next year.
Agreed. There's no need to scrap it, just rethink the way it's implemented

 

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VAR is odd, Lacazette should have been sent off for his retailitary kick on the Leeds player IMO.
True. Far worse than Bertrand v Leicester.

 

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I feel they have forgotten the reason why offside exists - to prevent an advantage The forensic analysis with someone being offside by a heel etc. is just bonkers and just breaks up the game.

 

Focus on feet position with a tolerance of 10cm / assessment limit of 60 seconds and it becomes a lot easier and hopefully reflects the need to prevent advantage better.

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I feel they have forgotten the reason why offside exists - to prevent an advantage The forensic analysis with someone being offside by a heel etc. is just bonkers and just breaks up the game.

 

Focus on feet position with a tolerance of 10cm / assessment limit of 60 seconds and it becomes a lot easier and hopefully reflects the need to prevent advantage better.

 

This. The offside law needs to be changed again (it has been changed often in the past). VAR is not the problem with offside. Offside is the problem

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This. The offside law needs to be changed again (it has been changed often in the past). VAR is not the problem with offside. Offside is the problem

 

What do you change?

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Focus on feet position with a tolerance of 10cm / assessment limit of 60 seconds and it becomes a lot easier and hopefully reflects the need to prevent advantage better.

 

The 10cm tolerance - effectively drawing a wider line on the freeze frame - would ease a lot of the frustration and speed things up a lot. I also think they should only focus on the part of the body that was used after the 'offside'. If the player only plays the ball after the pass with his feet, just check whether his feet were offside. If his head/shoulder was off, but wasn't used to control the ball before scoring then it shouldn't be given as offside.

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The 10cm tolerance - effectively drawing a wider line on the freeze frame - would ease a lot of the frustration and speed things up a lot. I also think they should only focus on the part of the body that was used after the 'offside'. If the player only plays the ball after the pass with his feet, just check whether his feet were offside. If his head/shoulder was off, but wasn't used to control the ball before scoring then it shouldn't be given as offside.

 

What about when someone is 10.1cm offside?

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What about when someone is 10.1cm offside?
If you can tell within a set time limit then its offside. The margin will be much bigger and less pedantic. Its not perfect but better than the current implementation.

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What about when someone is 10.1cm offside?

 

Then they are outside of the permitted tolerance and are judged offside. In my view the tolerance just facilitates a quicker decision because a thicker line can be drawn on the screen and it is easier to make the judgement with the naked eye.

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Keep VAR. percentage of incorrect decisions has dropped and less big six bias.

 

Is that right?? Fancy providing some examples to back this up?

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What about when someone is 10.1cm offside?

 

Then it is quite obviously offside, by around 10cm and should be given as such immediately.

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Keep it to 30 secs change the law to feet offside forget shoulder, armpit nose or beard.

If you went Batman you would see in the stadium it’s killing fans celebrating its taking too long

 

 

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Keep it to 30 secs change the law to feet offside forget shoulder, armpit nose or beard.

If you went Batman you would see in the stadium it’s killing fans celebrating its taking too long

 

 

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IMO you can't keep it to feet exclusively. What if the player's head is offside, but his feet are on and he then scores with his head. Just check the parts of the body that were used by the player after the pass was made.

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Keep it to 30 secs change the law to feet offside forget shoulder, armpit nose or beard.

If you went Batman you would see in the stadium it’s killing fans celebrating its taking too long

 

 

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I don't think it's killing fan celebrations its not like we celebrated goals that weren't then disallowed before VAR. Also it has introduced a whole new sub- genre of taking the **** out of opposition fans when VAR rules a goal out. VAR generates quite a bit of banter between opposition fans when it kicks in now.

 

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Any chance of changing the thread title?

 

Fans are never going to get rid of VAR. It's a decent discussion with a wide range of opinions. Not everyone wants it scrapped. Personally I just want it to work.

 

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Edited by Shroppie

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Ralph is in favour: "We play with this VAR because we know, if we hold the line, then the chance for offside...it's not a big risk."

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IMO you can't keep it to feet exclusively. What if the player's head is offside, but his feet are on and he then scores with his head. Just check the parts of the body that were used by the player after the pass was made.

Why would it matter if he scores with his head, bum, knee or chest? As long as his feet are onside when the pass is made. The idea is to make the rule as simple as possible to judge, and minimize errors. It's not a drastic change, and keeps the spirit of the rule alive.

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Half the problem is managers don’t know the rules. Moyes tonight saying VAR made an error. It didn’t, the rules clearly state if a handball leads to a goal, it’s disallowed. Whether it’s accidentally not is irrelevant.

 

 

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Half the problem is managers don’t know the rules. Moyes tonight saying VAR made an error. It didn’t, the rules clearly state if a handball leads to a goal, it’s disallowed. Whether it’s accidentally not is irrelevant.

 

 

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Yes, it's the rules they should be complaining about, not the application of the rules by VAR, which was correct in this case.

 

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Just seen the 'outrageous decision' tonight....if Rice hadn't put his arm out to block the ball, it was cleared.

He controlled the ball with his arm = handball, the end.

It's not a VAR issue, if people want goals assisted by handball, it's the law that needs changing.

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Just seen the 'outrageous decision' tonight....if Rice hadn't put his arm out to block the ball, it was cleared.

He controlled the ball with his arm = handball, the end.

It's not a VAR issue, if people want goals assisted by handball, it's the law that needs changing.

 

The problem is that this ruling is asymmetric. In any normal passage of play that would have been considered accidental and if a defender had done that then it wouldn’t have been a foul. I don’t agree with this new ruling and I don’t think it was ever meant to apply to events that happen in the middle of the pitch. I think that at the least it should be restricted to ‘handball’ by an attacker in the penalty area only.

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We are supposedly 5 points better off this season because of VAR.

 

VAR has been kind to us so far

 

I still don't want it, or like it. Ruining football

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Why would it matter if he scores with his head, bum, knee or chest? As long as his feet are onside when the pass is made. The idea is to make the rule as simple as possible to judge, and minimize errors. It's not a drastic change, and keeps the spirit of the rule alive.

 

Then surely how it is now is the best and simple way? No margins, errors or Interpretation of the rules, they are currently as clear as day, surely that is how they are supposed to be?

 

No 10 inches here or there depending on how the ref feels today and who he told his friends to bet on.... Don't matter what part of the body you are offside with, if you can legally control the ball with said part it should be included in the rules as it currently is.

 

It's like no one sees this from a defenders side, defenders spend hours together working on the offside trap, most teams use it as a tactic, we play the offside trap, what's the point of the offside position if it is open to debate / opinion / interpretation / how you feel on the day/ what team you want to win or what ever else people are trying to allow.... Just leave it how it was intended and get attackers to work on beating it like they are supposed to instead of crying over being offside.

 

Good professionals deal with what's in front and aim to beat it, like they have been claiming since the offside rule was introduced.

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Last night was another example of VAR doing its job correctly, under the rules that is a handball.

 

The issue is the rules are too pedantic, accidental handball needs to be considered as such (although even an accidental handball shouldn’t be allowed to give you an advantage), and if you are getting frustrated at the very narrow offsides, then it’s the offside law you want to change, not VAR.

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It's not that VAR has been kind to us, referees have previously been 'unkind'.

We are currently getting correct decisions.

No more Watford punched goals, no more fantasy offsides against Yoshida, no more getting robbed by Man Utd offside decisions.

:)

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Half the problem is managers don’t know the rules. Moyes tonight saying VAR made an error. It didn’t, the rules clearly state if a handball leads to a goal, it’s disallowed. Whether it’s accidentally not is irrelevant.

 

 

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Makes you wonder how VAR missed Djenepo's handball in the build up to Ings goal vs Watford.

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Makes you wonder how VAR missed Djenepo's handball in the build up to Ings goal vs Watford.

 

My understanding (from reading an article) was that they were checking whether the ball went out of play, and the angle to check whether it did or not, didn’t show the handball. The VAR official jumped the gun & told the on field ref that the ball was in play and therefore he could restart without checking anything else. After he had done so it was too late to pull it back. It was a human error, not a technology one.

 

 

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VAR is mostly working as intended and has improved the consistency of decisions on the pitch. People mostly have an issue with the millimetre offside decisions - and I agree. We will see this rule change over the summer I expect, as the issue is with the rule, not VAR.

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Last night was another example of VAR doing its job correctly, under the rules that is a handball.

 

The issue is the rules are too pedantic, accidental handball needs to be considered as such (although even an accidental handball shouldn’t be allowed to give you an advantage), and if you are getting frustrated at the very narrow offsides, then it’s the offside law you want to change, not VAR.

 

This is correct it is the ability of technology to allow the existing rules to be applied in minute detail when pitch referees would always not give a decision where any doubt existed.

 

This can be sorted by amending the rules for example ensure offside is only given where there is clear daylight between defender and attacker any body overlap is onside.

 

I would alo give each captain two or three appeal rights on referees goal or penalty decisions and in these cases the pitch referee reviews the footage.

 

I would only leave violent play sending offs to an off pitch referee who can inform the on pitch one of any missed incidents.

 

This I think would better combine VAR with the game we know and love.

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If that equalizer had stood, we would all be complaining about how the officials robbed us.

Time to put this Debate to bed. All the decisions of goals offsides were correct today.

 

I bloody love VAR because we are no longer getting crappy decisions.

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Might get VAR 1 on the back of my shirt. My favourite player since Pahars.

 

Lol i might actually join you now :D

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If that equalizer had stood, we would all be complaining about how the officials robbed us.

Time to put this Debate to bed. All the decisions of goals offsides were correct today.

 

I bloody love VAR because we are no longer getting crappy decisions.

Completely agree, but the rule needs changing for marginals.

 

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It keeps on ensuring that results are fair. How many points would we have lost this season through unfair decisions without it?

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