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2 hours ago, buctootim said:

Me too. There is weird subset of Americans who think their 'rights' trump everbody else's. I never wear a mask either as I think picking up loads of small sub clinical doses is the best way to innoculate yourself. But if I have to I will. The idea of storming the barricaded doors of Waitrose to exercise my right to buy coffee mask free is just bizarre. 

 

Me too. If I have to wear a mask I will, it’s not a die in a ditch issue. It’s also out of respect for the shop workers who have to deal with enough twats without another one refusing to wear a mask.

However, it’s totally pointless, won’t make a blind bit of difference and is politically motivated pure and simple. If it wasn’t, we’d have been wearing them weeks ago, they’d legislate what type of mask, and they’d also strictly enforce it. It’s a half arsed measure that doesn’t add up. 

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3 hours ago, Mystic Force said:

I am wondering what the back death would have been like if medieval peasants had facebook. There would be a guy with a picture of him with as many rats as possible saying its not real. Another with a small pimple saying the end of the world is nigh. People just trying to pray it away, while they accuse some shadowy government of robed individuals telling them all what to do.

I think they had a bit of Black Death in Mongolia the other day.

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My SD works in retail.  They've been told that ALL customers need to wear a mask - they wear visors so don't need to themselves!  However, if any customers come in without a mask on, they've been told they should serve them still!  I guess money talks at the end of the day and it makes the 'need' for masks a bit pointless!

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1 hour ago, Weston Super Saint said:

My SD works in retail.  They've been told that ALL customers need to wear a mask - they wear visors so don't need to themselves!  However, if any customers come in without a mask on, they've been told they should serve them still!  I guess money talks at the end of the day and it makes the 'need' for masks a bit pointless!

It’s pony, just playing to the gallery. The virus is so dangerous you need to wear a mask in shops, not the pub or restaurant, but the shop. However, shop workers don’t need to wear one, there’s not really any consequence of not doing so as nobody will police it. Oh, and it doesn’t really matter what it is, just a face covering will do and the virus only becomes this dangerous on Friday.  

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30 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

It’s pony, just playing to the gallery. The virus is so dangerous you need to wear a mask in shops, not the pub or restaurant, but the shop. However, shop workers don’t need to wear one, there’s not really any consequence of not doing so as nobody will police it. Oh, and it doesn’t really matter what it is, just a face covering will do and the virus only becomes this dangerous on Friday.  

But luckily, it will move out of the Gyms and swimming pools around the country on Friday night before it moves into the shopping centres!

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2 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Me too. If I have to wear a mask I will, it’s not a die in a ditch issue. It’s also out of respect for the shop workers who have to deal with enough twats without another one refusing to wear a mask.

However, it’s totally pointless, won’t make a blind bit of difference and is politically motivated pure and simple. If it wasn’t, we’d have been wearing them weeks ago, they’d legislate what type of mask, and they’d also strictly enforce it. It’s a half arsed measure that doesn’t add up. 

Haven't other countries done just that fared much better? 

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3 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Like India?

You tell me, have they made masks of a high quality compulsory and punished non-compliance? 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

It’s pony, just playing to the gallery. The virus is so dangerous you need to wear a mask in shops, not the pub or restaurant, but the shop. However, shop workers don’t need to wear one, there’s not really any consequence of not doing so as nobody will police it. Oh, and it doesn’t really matter what it is, just a face covering will do and the virus only becomes this dangerous on Friday.  

Yep its perverse.  The pub is the place where you are most likely to get infected. Talking to somebody face to face for hours whilst drinking and pissed is perfectly set up to catch it from them if they have it. Spending 10 seconds vaguely in the same area as somebody else in the supermarket is almost zero risk,  mask or not. 

Edited by buctootim
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3 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

It’s a good job my wife shares the same opinion as me then isn’t it?

You seem to have an issue with somebody changing their opinion as we learn more about what’s going on. Is stubbornness and the refusal to admit you were mistaken now a strength? 
 

When the snap dragon shared some of the worst case scenarios & planning with me, it was a horrific picture. Now I know it wouldn’t scare the forum hardmen, they’re made of sterner stuff. The more the time went on it became apparent the Government & authorities had totally overreacted. You only have to study the basic evidence, from people not following their own guidelines (Cummins etc), to the misrepresentation of deaths. The mask fiasco, the lack of spikes after beach visits & marches, the fact that the SD’s work colleagues have tested positive for the anti body test and didn’t even realise they’d had it, the lack of mayhem in Sweden & Japan, together with countless other signs, led me to believe such a hard lockdown was disproportionate & will end up doing more harm than good. 
 

You deliberately make out that “you’ve been had” mantra puts me in the conspiracy camp, making out that I believe it to be a hoax. The way we’ve been had is the Government covering its arse. There was no need for such a harsh lockdown, I’m sure what we have now would have been sufficient, the furlough scheme should be wound up earlier & the NHS should never have rationed its care which will lead to unnecessary deaths. What we are seeing now is the establishment covering its tracks & trying to avoid blame. That’s the way we’ve been had, and when millions lose their jobs, homes and good health, others will start to agree. 
 

 

I must admit that my attitude to it all mirrors yours but without any solid evidence as to why. Back in March I thought it might be worth giving it a try for a few weeks but there seemed to be no thought or logic to any of the measures.

I’m pleased for the government support for my business but when the state has closed down all your customers it’s the least they could do. The problem is that they have scared the willies out of everybody and now they can’t put them back. 

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12 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

the lack of mayhem in Sweden & Japan, together with countless other signs, led me to believe such a hard lockdown was disproportionate & will end up doing more harm than good. 

 

 

You need to re consider the evidence. Sweden's deaths per capita from Covid is one of the worst in the world - worse than covid hotspots like Brazil and USA.  Swedish opinion is that their government got it wrong.

Japan has certainly had its own regional lockdowns. It also has the benefit of a public health system enabling track and trace that this country can only dream about.

Your thought processes are seriously flawed if you have based your opinions on these countries.

 

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, Tamesaint said:

You need to re consider the evidence. Sweden's deaths per capita from Covid is one of the worst in the world - worse than covid hotspots like Brazil and USA.  Swedish opinion is that their government got it wrong.

Japan has certainly had its own regional lockdowns. It also has the benefit of a public health system enabling track and trace that this country can only dream about.

Your thought processes are seriously flawed if you have based your opinions on these countries.

 

To some extent it depends on what your long term aim is. If you want to suppress numbers for a while then yes social isolation and lockdown works. But when you ease those measures infections start to rebound. Success or failure of a strategy will be measured in deaths over a 2-5 year period, not a few months.  Sweden's herd immunity approach may well be the right one if it delivers the same number of deaths but without the economic hit. A lot depends on how immune you can become and how long that immunity lasts - but thats true of vaccines too .

Edited by buctootim

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2 minutes ago, buctootim said:

To some extent it depends on what your long term aim is. If you want to suppress numbers for a while then yes social isolation and lockdown works. But when you ease those measures infections start to rebound. Success or failure of a strategy will be measured in deaths over a 2-5 year period.  Sweden's herd immunity one may well be the right one if it delivers the same number of deaths but without the economic hit. 

Well said.

You can’t count  Covid deaths as the only measure that matters, and it’s way too early to decide which countries had a good virus and which ones didn’t. Long term economic consequences, preventable deaths from other causes, the mental health of your citizens, are amongst other considerations that need taking into account. A country banning cars will top the list in terms of road safety figures, but that doesn’t make banning them the right thing to do. 

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1 hour ago, buctootim said:

To some extent it depends on what your long term aim is. If you want to suppress numbers for a while then yes social isolation and lockdown works. But when you ease those measures infections start to rebound. Success or failure of a strategy will be measured in deaths over a 2-5 year period, not a few months.  Sweden's herd immunity approach may well be the right one if it delivers the same number of deaths but without the economic hit. A lot depends on how immune you can become and how long that immunity lasts - but thats true of vaccines too .

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-07-23/sweden-s-coronavirus-approach-doesn-t-pay-off-for-the-economy

 

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1 hour ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Well said.

You can’t count  Covid deaths as the only measure that matters, and it’s way too early to decide which countries had a good virus and which ones didn’t. Long term economic consequences, preventable deaths from other causes, the mental health of your citizens, are amongst other considerations that need taking into account. A country banning cars will top the list in terms of road safety figures, but that doesn’t make banning them the right thing to do. 

If car crashes started multiplying exponentially then it might be a sensible precautionary step for a time.

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, buctootim said:

To some extent it depends on what your long term aim is. If you want to suppress numbers for a while then yes social isolation and lockdown works. But when you ease those measures infections start to rebound. Success or failure of a strategy will be measured in deaths over a 2-5 year period, not a few months.  Sweden's herd immunity approach may well be the right one if it delivers the same number of deaths but without the economic hit. A lot depends on how immune you can become and how long that immunity lasts - but thats true of vaccines too .

That may well be the case and I agree it will take time to assess the true impact of the virus. Duckie however was justifying a change of policy due to the "lack of mayhem" in Sweden and Japan when in fact these countries have suffered a great deal from their apparently lax lockdown measures.

Edited by Tamesaint

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Posted (edited)
On 22/07/2020 at 19:38, Lord Duckhunter said:

The more the time went on it became apparent the Government & authorities had totally overreacted. You only have to study the basic evidence, from people not following their own guidelines (Cummins etc), to the misrepresentation of deaths. The mask fiasco, the lack of spikes after beach visits & marches, the fact that the SD’s work colleagues have tested positive for the anti body test and didn’t even realise they’d had it, the lack of mayhem in Sweden & Japan, together with countless other signs, led me to believe such a hard lockdown was disproportionate & will end up doing more harm than good. 

 


 

 

 

10 hours ago, Tamesaint said:

That may well be the case and I agree it will take time to assess the true impact of the virus. Duckie however was justifying a change of policy due to the "lack of mayhem" in Sweden and Japan when in fact these countries have suffered a great deal from their apparently lax lockdown measures.

You really can help yourself can you? 
 

You’ve misrepresented what I actually wrote, which can be seen above. A list of reasons I think our Gov over reacted, which also contained the phrase “plus countless other signs”. Simplistically (no surprise there) you’ve twisted what I actually wrote to make it appear  Sweden and Japan are the only reasons I think this. 

Edited by Lord Duckhunter

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Posted (edited)

Shall we start a sweepstake about who will be the first Liberal elite pinko to be seen not wearing a face mask for our resident Guido-ettes to get apoplectic about?

> Hugh Grant

> Gary Lineker

> Cherie Blair

> David Gauke

> Diane Abbott's privately educated son

> Sopping wet Remoaner EU Superfan Julian Lewis MP

Hypocrites they are. Probably.

Edited by CB Fry

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Posted (edited)

Trump now reckons it is a bad idea to hold a "big crowded convention" during a pandemic.

Edited by badgerx16

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17 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

Shall we start a sweepstake about who will be the first Liberal elite pinko to be seen not wearing a face mask for our resident Guido-ettes to get apoplectic about?

> Hugh Grant

> Gary Lineker

> Cherie Blair

> David Gauke

> Diane Abbott's privately educated son

> Sopping wet Remoaner EU Superfan Julian Lewis MP

Hypocrites they are. Probably.

Piers Morgan 

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48 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

Shall we start a sweepstake about who will be the first Liberal elite pinko to be seen not wearing a face mask for our resident Guido-ettes to get apoplectic about?

> Hugh Grant

> Gary Lineker

> Cherie Blair

> David Gauke

> Diane Abbott's privately educated son

> Sopping wet Remoaner EU Superfan Julian Lewis MP

Hypocrites they are. Probably.

Steve Coogan

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2 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

 

You really can help yourself can you? 
 

You’ve misrepresented what I actually wrote, which can be seen above. A list of reasons I think our Gov over reacted, which also contained the phrase “plus countless other signs”. Simplistically (no surprise there) you’ve twisted what I actually wrote to make it appear  Sweden and Japan are the only reasons I think this. 

Stop being such a precious tart.

You made a statement supposedly based on apparent facts and then got a hissy when it was pointed out that one of your "facts" was wrong. Most people in life base their opinions on facts. You seem to prefer opinions, don't like your "facts" being corrected  and don't care if the facts don't support your opinions.

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4 hours ago, badgerx16 said:

Trump now reckons it is a bad idea to hold a "big crowded convention" during a pandemic.

The reason his was two thirds empty was because of social distancing....... 

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4 hours ago, Tamesaint said:

 

You made a statement supposedly based on apparent facts and then got a hissy when it was pointed out that one of your "facts" was wrong. Most people in life base their opinions on facts. You seem to prefer opinions, don't like your "facts" being corrected  and don't care if the facts don't support your opinions.

What a load of pony.
 

The fact you think you proved is Japan  & Sweden suffered  mayhem. They didn’t. Mayhem is the desease out of control and the authorities unable to cope, people dying in hospital corridors, the health service falling over. A bit like Ferguson predicted if we didn’t lock down hard.
 

You’re big on facts shaping your opinion, but the facts around the age & health of victims that die from this, facts around the damage recession & unemployment cause, facts around the treatment & early diagnosis of other diseases, play  no part in your opinions when it comes to Covid. 
 

 

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1 hour ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

What a load of pony.
 

The fact you think you proved is Japan  & Sweden suffered  mayhem. They didn’t. Mayhem is the desease out of control and the authorities unable to cope, people dying in hospital corridors, the health service falling over. A bit like Ferguson predicted if we didn’t lock down hard.
 

 

Enter India from stage left (which doesn't have the greatest health service at the best of times to be fair!).

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

What a load of pony.
 

The fact you think you proved is Japan  & Sweden suffered  mayhem. They didn’t. Mayhem is the desease out of control and the authorities unable to cope, people dying in hospital corridors, the health service falling over. A bit like Ferguson predicted if we didn’t lock down hard.
 

You’re big on facts shaping your opinion, but the facts around the age & health of victims that die from this, facts around the damage recession & unemployment cause, facts around the treatment & early diagnosis of other diseases, play  no part in your opinions when it comes to Covid. 
 

 

When you are in a hole, why don't you just stop digging ?.

Man up for once, admit that you were wrong and move on. 

Edited by Tamesaint

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On 23/07/2020 at 15:49, benjii said:

If car crashes started multiplying exponentially then it might be a sensible precautionary step for a time.

These fckers want us to wear maskS everywhere and now they are coming for our cars. Enough!

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My missus refuses to look at foreign holidays this summer. She feels vindicated. 
Cornwall it is then

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So my wife's best friend is currently in Spain. She's due to get married in 12 days time and reckons she's just going to ignore the demand to isolate. I think this is a terrible idea. Does anyone know what the enforcement is like for it? 

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25 minutes ago, whelk said:

My missus refuses to look at foreign holidays this summer. She feels vindicated. 
Cornwall it is then

Cornwall is full!

The M5 South now has traffic jams all day on a Friday - used to be bad from about 15:00 but is bumper to bumper from about 11:00am now.

Good news for the British tourist spots that missed out over Easter though and good news for the UK economy with people forced to spend their holiday money inside our borders ;)

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Posted (edited)
1 minute ago, hypochondriac said:

So my wife's best friend is currently in Spain. She's due to get married in 12 days time and reckons she's just going to ignore the demand to isolate. I think this is a terrible idea. Does anyone know what the enforcement is like for it? 

Up to £1k fine I believe...

However, they don't seem to be dishing them out very often!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53355552

Edited by Weston Super Saint

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Bit risky to book any holiday abroad at the moment, who knows what country could have a spike. 

North Korea has just confirmed a case, so we can't even be safe there now.

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Just now, Weston Super Saint said:

Up to £1k fine I believe...

Yes I saw that but what is the likelihood that she'd actually get caught? I reckon having a marriage certificate with the date on isn't the brightest thing to do under the circumstances. 

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1 minute ago, The Cat said:

Bit risky to book any holiday abroad at the moment, who knows what country could have a spike. 

North Korea has just confirmed a case, so we can't even be safe there now.

Meh, that just means one less North Korean they will need to feed, doubtless they will 'disappear' soon....

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2 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Yes I saw that but what is the likelihood that she'd actually get caught? I reckon having a marriage certificate with the date on isn't the brightest thing to do under the circumstances. 

Up until 10th July not one single fine had been issued...

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1 minute ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Up to £1k fine I believe...

Likelihood of being fined is so low and even with quarantine you can still go out for shopping and exercise much like we all could in April. 

People should probably take some sort of personal responsibility in this sort of case though rather than deciding they are above the rules. 

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3 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Meh, that just means one less North Korean they will need to feed, doubtless they will 'disappear' soon....

It was someone who had defected to South Korea 3 years ago and then gone back. No doubt you are right!

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Just now, The Cat said:

Likelihood of being fined is so low and even with quarantine you can still go out for shopping and exercise much like we all could in April. 

People should probably take some sort of personal responsibility in this sort of case though rather than deciding they are above the rules. 

Would be nice but pretty sure she's going to ignore it. Considering her husband's father will be attending the wedding and he's an older man currently going through chemo I'd say that's pretty selfish but I can't say much annoyingly. 

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1 minute ago, hypochondriac said:

Would be nice but pretty sure she's going to ignore it. Considering her husband's father will be attending the wedding and he's an older man currently going through chemo I'd say that's pretty selfish but I can't say much annoyingly. 

Jeez. 

I feel sorry for people who booked holidays ages ago who will now be struggling with the dilemma of whether to go or whether to lose the money on their flights and hotels etc.

 

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9 hours ago, CB Fry said:

Grant Shapps is currently in Spain.

Never mind. I am sure that his eyes will need testing so he will be able to break any quarantine rules.

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3 minutes ago, Tamesaint said:

Never mind. I am sure that his eyes will need testing so he will be able to break any quarantine rules.

There's special exemption for certain people and I'm sure Government ministers will miraculously fall under that category. 

I'm sure he could just get a test when he comes back anyway.

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10 minutes ago, The Cat said:

There's special exemption for certain people and I'm sure Government ministers will miraculously fall under that category. 

I'm sure he could just get a test when he comes back anyway.

Surely they can test quickly and then quarantine is not needed on assumption of negative test.

we don’t want unnecessary delays to the A61 work or discounted puncture repair kits

 

 

 

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35 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Cornwall is full!

The M5 South now has traffic jams all day on a Friday - used to be bad from about 15:00 but is bumper to bumper from about 11:00am now.

Good news for the British tourist spots that missed out over Easter though and good news for the UK economy with people forced to spend their holiday money inside our borders ;)

That will explain her saying it was all pricey. Leicester it is then

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20 minutes ago, The Cat said:

Jeez. 

I feel sorry for people who booked holidays ages ago who will now be struggling with the dilemma of whether to go or whether to lose the money on their flights and hotels etc.

 

She thinks "I'm no more at risk in London than I am in Spain. I won't be quarrantining". 

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31 minutes ago, The Cat said:

Jeez. 

I feel sorry for people who booked holidays ages ago who will now be struggling with the dilemma of whether to go or whether to lose the money on their flights and hotels etc.

 

anyone who didnt cancel their holiday (for this summer/year) months ago, gets what they deserve

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5 minutes ago, Batman said:

anyone who didnt cancel their holiday (for this summer/year) months ago, gets what they deserve

Absolutely. The fact that no one is saying anything because it's her wedding is really annoying. 

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21 minutes ago, Batman said:

anyone who didnt cancel their holiday (for this summer/year) months ago, gets what they deserve

The mate I spoke to the other day had booked Spain for the end of August and as of Thursday he couldn't get his money back because flights were still on and hotel open. 

Anyone who could cancel for a refund and hasn't needs to have a word with themselves.

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