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5 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

She voted remain, so will never be a guilty as Cummins in their eyes. The virus is much more contagious when contracted by leavers and particularly so in people who organised leave campaigns. Therefore, driving in your car when infested is far worse than going to and from Scotland on a train after attending work. 

Hi Lord D!  Is she a remainer in the same sense Julian Lewis is?  It's confusing innit - I'm not sure if remainer is a term you use to describe someone you disagree with or an actual remainer?

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32 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

And she wasn't driving.

No, therefore several other people sharing the carriage on the train (and her colleague MPs in the House) can thank her for her largesse in passing on the virus to them.

But the actions of people like this are as nothing compared to the idiots attending protest marches, illegal raves and university parties in their droves, so the only perspective that gives them news air time is the "don't so as I do, do as I say" hypocrisy aspect.

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4 minutes ago, Wes Tender said:

No, therefore several other people sharing the carriage on the train (and her colleague MPs in the House) can thank her for her largesse in passing on the virus to them.

But the actions of people like this are as nothing compared to the idiots attending protest marches, illegal raves and university parties in their droves, so the only perspective that gives them news air time is the "don't so as I do, do as I say" hypocrisy aspect.

Yeah, a hypocrisy aspect that effects the public's attitude towards the laws. 

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19 minutes ago, Wes Tender said:

No, therefore several other people sharing the carriage on the train (and her colleague MPs in the House) can thank her for her largesse in passing on the virus to them.

But the actions of people like this are as nothing compared to the idiots attending protest marches, illegal raves and university parties in their droves, so the only perspective that gives them news air time is the "don't so as I do, do as I say" hypocrisy aspect.

Wes, I agree with you. 🙂

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8 hours ago, aintforever said:

Like anyone had actually heard of her, let alone know which way she voted in 2016. :lol:

She's obviously as guilty as Cummings and should do the right thing and resign. At least the Scottish leader has the balls to do say the right thing and not lie and make embarrassing excuses.

"This is utterly indefensible. It's hard to express just how angry I feel on behalf of people across the country making hard sacrifices every day to help beat Covid." - what our 'leader' should have said.

 

I disagree.

I don't believe ANYONE should lose their job as a result of a breach of the procedures.  If one person does, then everyone guilty of the same 'crime' should also lose their livelihood, but I'm not convinced that will solve anything.

She SHOULD accept the highest level of fine and pay up.  After all, that is the prescribed penalty for breaching the regulations, not losing your livelihood.

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1 hour ago, Weston Super Saint said:

I disagree.

I don't believe ANYONE should lose their job as a result of a breach of the procedures.  If one person does, then everyone guilty of the same 'crime' should also lose their livelihood, but I'm not convinced that will solve anything.

She SHOULD accept the highest level of fine and pay up.  After all, that is the prescribed penalty for breaching the regulations, not losing your livelihood.

The penalty for breaking the law and the penalty for bringing your employer into disrepute by gross misconduct are two separate things. 

 

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Good to see proper speakership back in action. Hoyle was advised against allowing the Brady amendment so didn’t call it. Showed his displeasure with his words, but took the advise clerks gave him. Totally different from the poison dwarf . Good to see. 

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1 hour ago, buctootim said:

The penalty for breaking the law and the penalty for bringing your employer into disrepute by gross misconduct are two separate things. 

 

Pretty sure that an employment contract where an employer can be brought into disrepute doesn't apply to an elected official...

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4 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Good to see proper speakership back in action. Hoyle was advised against allowing the Brady amendment so didn’t call it. Showed his displeasure with his words, but took the advise clerks gave him. Totally different from the poison dwarf . Good to see. 

Like Hoyle as Speaker. 

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46 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

So, how are we getting on since face masks were made compulsory, looking good right?

Wearing them. Back in schools so no choice. Doesn't bother me tbh, biggest priority of last three/four months has been keeping my wife free from potential Covid infection whilst on chemo. Easy to be snide and politicise mask wearing but for some of us it borders on necessity. 

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24 minutes ago, Winnersaint said:

Wearing them. Back in schools so no choice. Doesn't bother me tbh, biggest priority of last three/four months has been keeping my wife free from potential Covid infection whilst on chemo. Easy to be snide and politicise mask wearing but for some of us it borders on necessity. 

Well said.

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11 hours ago, Winnersaint said:

Wearing them. Back in schools so no choice. Doesn't bother me tbh, biggest priority of last three/four months has been keeping my wife free from potential Covid infection whilst on chemo. Easy to be snide and politicise mask wearing but for some of us it borders on necessity. 

The point is that masks, as can be seen by the continued rising number of infections, are not an effective means of controlling the virus and ultimately lead to a false sense of protection.

Whilst you and your wife have my sympathies for the illness she currently has, the only effective measure that controls the virus is to remove contact with the general population.

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1 hour ago, Weston Super Saint said:

The point is that masks, as can be seen by the continued rising number of infections, are not an effective means of controlling the virus and ultimately lead to a false sense of protection.

Whilst you and your wife have my sympathies for the illness she currently has, the only effective measure that controls the virus is to remove contact with the general population.

Masks are not worn everywhere, which reduces their overall effectiveness. Masks are to reduce the chance of you infecting somebody else, not to prevent you catching it, ( think about operating theatres ). 2 metre separation is not far enough to prevent the infection spreading aerially in areas where masks are not enforced.

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1 hour ago, Weston Super Saint said:

The point is that masks, as can be seen by the continued rising number of infections, are not an effective means of controlling the virus and ultimately lead to a false sense of protection.

Whilst you and your wife have my sympathies for the illness she currently has, the only effective measure that controls the virus is to remove contact with the general population.

You really are thick as fuck if you think the rise is cases is proof that masks don't work.

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2 hours ago, Weston Super Saint said:

The point is that masks, as can be seen by the continued rising number of infections, are not an effective means of controlling the virus and ultimately lead to a false sense of protection.

 

Well I have read some absolute rubbish on Saintsweb over the years ( and yes I include some of my own posts in that ) but this post by WSS must be in the all time top 5 for crass stupidity.

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1 hour ago, Saint in Paradise said:

Well I have read some absolute rubbish on Saintsweb over the years ( and yes I include some of my own posts in that ) but this post by WSS must be in the all time top 5 for crass stupidity.

He was also responsible for the other 4 top stupidity posts.

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1 hour ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Are infections rising or falling - simple question that even you can answer....

At a meat processing plant in Cornwall 500 members of staff were tested and 170 were found to be positive yet most of these were asymptomatic and didn't know that they had the disease. This implies to me that the tests are oversensitive and are flagging up a large number of false positives. Even if there is some small trace of virus present. We may be taking overdramatic measure on the basis of misleading information.

Meanwhile in Italy three British lads who were working there were put into quarantine on 17th August and need to wait until they have two consecutive negative tests before they can leave.

"The three guys are regularly tested every Monday but have so far tested positive every week.

They say this is because of “dead coronavirus cells” that have stayed in their system."

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/12720876/coronavirus-jail-italy-british-friends-stuck-quarantine/

 

 

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1 hour ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Are infections rising or falling - simple question that even you can answer....

Of course they are rising because people are going to shops, work, school's colleges etc instead of sitting at home watching Netflix.

Not sure how you conclude that face masks don't work from that. It's akin to saying seatbelts don't work because people keep dying in car crashes. :lol:

 

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1 hour ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Are infections rising or falling - simple question that even you can answer....

Maybe infections would have risen even more if masks hadn't been enforced in certain settings?

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2 hours ago, aintforever said:

Of course they are rising because people are going to shops, work, school's colleges etc instead of sitting at home watching Netflix.

Not sure how you conclude that face masks don't work from that. It's akin to saying seatbelts don't work because people keep dying in car crashes. :lol:

 

Yes, people are going to shops, work, schools etc, but since July they have had to wear face masks and the rate of infection is on the way up - some stats say it is rising at the same rate as in March when hardly anyone in the UK even owned a face mask!

Lots of people also went to shops and work during May and June when face masks weren't compulsory and the infection rate dropped, odd that isn't it?

How about putting some thought in to all the other ways that the disease can be spread - through surfaces, on public transport, touch screens pretty much everywhere etc etc - that people don't even give the first inkling of a thought about, yet think they themselves are protected (as well as everyone else) because they have a face mask on.  As I said - and as you and many others on here have amply demonstrated - face masks give a false sense of protection.

I would understand if everyone was made to wear a medical grade face mask - and were trained how to put them on properly along with additional infection control - but the reality is that the overwhelming majority of face masks are a single layer of fabric and ultimately do not do what people falsely believe it will!

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40 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Yes, people are going to shops, work, schools etc, but since July they have had to wear face masks and the rate of infection is on the way up - some stats say it is rising at the same rate as in March when hardly anyone in the UK even owned a face mask!

Lots of people also went to shops and work during May and June when face masks weren't compulsory and the infection rate dropped, odd that isn't it?

How about putting some thought in to all the other ways that the disease can be spread - through surfaces, on public transport, touch screens pretty much everywhere etc etc - that people don't even give the first inkling of a thought about, yet think they themselves are protected (as well as everyone else) because they have a face mask on.  As I said - and as you and many others on here have amply demonstrated - face masks give a false sense of protection.

I would understand if everyone was made to wear a medical grade face mask - and were trained how to put them on properly along with additional infection control - but the reality is that the overwhelming majority of face masks are a single layer of fabric and ultimately do not do what people falsely believe it will!

But surely hardly anyone was being tested in May/June, whereas pretty much my whole office has been tested since July, and a number were found positive. As The Don said ‘If you test more people, infection rates will go up’ (I cant believe I’m quoting Trump, but I guess even a stopped clock tells the right time twice a day!)

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1 hour ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Yes, people are going to shops, work, schools etc, but since July they have had to wear face masks and the rate of infection is on the way up - some stats say it is rising at the same rate as in March when hardly anyone in the UK even owned a face mask!

Lots of people also went to shops and work during May and June when face masks weren't compulsory and the infection rate dropped, odd that isn't it?

How about putting some thought in to all the other ways that the disease can be spread - through surfaces, on public transport, touch screens pretty much everywhere etc etc - that people don't even give the first inkling of a thought about, yet think they themselves are protected (as well as everyone else) because they have a face mask on.  As I said - and as you and many others on here have amply demonstrated - face masks give a false sense of protection.

I would understand if everyone was made to wear a medical grade face mask - and were trained how to put them on properly along with additional infection control - but the reality is that the overwhelming majority of face masks are a single layer of fabric and ultimately do not do what people falsely believe it will!

Maybe you should inform Oxford University of your findings? 

https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2020-07-08-oxford-covid-19-study-face-masks-and-coverings-work-act-now

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1 hour ago, aintforever said:

Maybe you should inform Oxford University of your findings? 

https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2020-07-08-oxford-covid-19-study-face-masks-and-coverings-work-act-now

Did you read that article or are you just trumpeting it in a 'look at me, how clever am I' way?

The first line states : "Cloth face coverings, even homemade masks made of the correct material, are effective in reducing the spread of COVID-19" - it doesn't state what the 'correct' material is, but didn't I state something similar - "I would understand if everyone was made to wear a medical grade face mask - and were trained how to put them on properly".

The article states : "Behavioural factors are involved, including how people understand the virus and their perceptions of risk, trust in experts and government, can adversely affect mask wearing" - again, is this not also something I stated with regards to 'understanding' how the virus can be transmitted by other means and not just considering masks?

The article then goes on to state - "But, the study shows, some coverings are not as effective as others. Loosely woven fabrics, such as scarves have been shown to be the least effective." as well as "We find that masks made from high quality material such as high-grade cotton, multiple layers and particularly hybrid constructions are effective.".  Again, doesn't this pretty much echo what I stated - "the reality is that the overwhelming majority of face masks are a single layer of fabric and ultimately do not do what people falsely believe it will!"

What exactly should I be informing Oxford University about my findings when it seems pretty clear from the article that they published on the 8th of July 2020 - incedentally, before face coverings were made mandatory - that they are already aware of the same things as I am!

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2 hours ago, Jimmy_D said:

Anyone that has any doubts about the effectiveness of masks, and why it's important to wear one, should watch this.

 

I think the 'math(sic) of masks' that you have posted has very eloquently corroborated my earlier point about people relying on masks to protect them and their false sense of protection!

The 'math of masks' is also fundamentally flawed given that it pays no attention whatsoever to the other ways that the virus can be transmitted.  There are also some pretty heavyweight 'caveats' hidden away at the end of the video, but the 'math' is based on masks being at least 50% effective...

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24 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

I think the 'math(sic) of masks' that you have posted has very eloquently corroborated my earlier point about people relying on masks to protect them and their false sense of protection!

The 'math of masks' is also fundamentally flawed given that it pays no attention whatsoever to the other ways that the virus can be transmitted.  There are also some pretty heavyweight 'caveats' hidden away at the end of the video, but the 'math' is based on masks being at least 50% effective...

There's no need for the (sic) as it's an American video.

The 50% isn't pulled out of thin air, it's what university studies have shown the effectiveness of a basic cotton mask to be based on studies of relative infection rates, after any other effects have also taken effect, for example feeling safer.

https://royalsociety.org/-/media/policy/projects/set-c/set-c-facemasks.pdf?la=en-GB&hash=A22A87CB28F7D6AD9BD93BBCBFC2BB24

Of course there are other ways that it can be transmitted, and you should be taking precautions against those too, basic hand washing and avoiding touching your face for a start. That doesn't mean you should ignore the effectiveness of wearing a mask. Anyone choosing to ignore that at this point is just putting themselves and others at unnecessary risk, and being pretty selfish to be honest.

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1 hour ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Did you read that article or are you just trumpeting it in a 'look at me, how clever am I' way?

The first line states : "Cloth face coverings, even homemade masks made of the correct material, are effective in reducing the spread of COVID-19" - it doesn't state what the 'correct' material is, but didn't I state something similar - "I would understand if everyone was made to wear a medical grade face mask - and were trained how to put them on properly".

The article states : "Behavioural factors are involved, including how people understand the virus and their perceptions of risk, trust in experts and government, can adversely affect mask wearing" - again, is this not also something I stated with regards to 'understanding' how the virus can be transmitted by other means and not just considering masks?

The article then goes on to state - "But, the study shows, some coverings are not as effective as others. Loosely woven fabrics, such as scarves have been shown to be the least effective." as well as "We find that masks made from high quality material such as high-grade cotton, multiple layers and particularly hybrid constructions are effective.".  Again, doesn't this pretty much echo what I stated - "the reality is that the overwhelming majority of face masks are a single layer of fabric and ultimately do not do what people falsely believe it will!"

What exactly should I be informing Oxford University about my findings when it seems pretty clear from the article that they published on the 8th of July 2020 - incedentally, before face coverings were made mandatory - that they are already aware of the same things as I am!

I don’t think your head works properly. Some masks work better than others - that is obvious. Wearing masks is only part of what you should do to avoid spreading - we all know that. Not sure how from those two facts you can conclude that masks don’t work.

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15 hours ago, Weston Super Saint said:

The point is that masks, as can be seen by the continued rising number of infections, are not an effective means of controlling the virus and ultimately lead to a false sense of protection.

Whilst you and your wife have my sympathies for the illness she currently has, the only effective measure that controls the virus is to remove contact with the general population.

Thanks for that. I won’t patronise you as you may well have first hand experience of a loved one with a serious cancer diagnosis and the prognosis that accompanies it. My wife doesn’t want to put her life on hold. The average life expectancy for a person with metastasised bowel cancer is two years. We’re seven months into that already. Getting out (albeit infrequently) is part of her management strategy for her illness as much as shielding herself away from risks. It is a balancing act. Ride safe btw.

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So, we need masks. Yet foorballer can run around sptting, sweating and clashing with each other and be OK? 

I did laugh the other day when the trainer ran on to attend to someone with his mask on. 

Anyway, I await to be told yet again I am a tin foil hat freak, while getting no answers as to how footballer stay so clear of the virus without masks, while spitting, sweating and clashing etc. If you cannot see through this stuff, I fear for you and the future. 

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8 hours ago, Winnersaint said:

Thanks for that. I won’t patronise you as you may well have first hand experience of a loved one with a serious cancer diagnosis and the prognosis that accompanies it. 

Thank you - and I do.  Four times in the last nine years but he's been 'all clear' for the past two now.

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50 minutes ago, st.bangkok said:

So, we need masks. Yet foorballer can run around sptting, sweating and clashing with each other and be OK? 

I did laugh the other day when the trainer ran on to attend to someone with his mask on. 

Anyway, I await to be told yet again I am a tin foil hat freak, while getting no answers as to how footballer stay so clear of the virus without masks, while spitting, sweating and clashing etc. If you cannot see through this stuff, I fear for you and the future. 

 

50 minutes ago, st.bangkok said:

So, we need masks. Yet foorballer can run around sptting, sweating and clashing with each other and be OK? 

I did laugh the other day when the trainer ran on to attend to someone with his mask on. 

Anyway, I await to be told yet again I am a tin foil hat freak, while getting no answers as to how footballer stay so clear of the virus without masks, while spitting, sweating and clashing etc. If you cannot see through this stuff, I fear for you and the future. 

Ummm, because they are tested several times a week and if positive they are removed from the group....you know, like testing and isolating is supposed to work. It’s no great mystery you tin hat freak. 

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5 hours ago, Dig Dig said:

 

Ummm, because they are tested several times a week and if positive they are removed from the group....you know, like testing and isolating is supposed to work. It’s no great mystery you tin hat freak. 

Does the word A-symptomatic mean anything you thicko.

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13 minutes ago, st.bangkok said:

Does the word A-symptomatic mean anything you thicko.

So do you want everyone to pretend that masks don't help, so that you don't have to wear one?

Or do you want footballers to stop playing football, despite taking a different route to reducing risk?

Or do you want footballers to start playing football with masks on?

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I don’t think masks make much of a difference & when you see the way some people wear them or the dirty rags some use,  in some cases they’ll make things worse. However, it’s not really a big deal to wear one and not worth getting into arguments over. 

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1 hour ago, Dig Dig said:

A-symptomatic carriers still test positive, you thicko

Just because they are asymptomatic doesn’t mean that they are carriers.

Far from it.

 

And there’s no need to call other posters silly names.

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47 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Just because they are asymptomatic doesn’t mean that they are carriers.

Far from it.

 

And there’s no need to call other posters silly names.

What has that got to do with anything? And the “silly name” was given in return.

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