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3 minutes ago, trousers said:

Maybe some of the risk was underwritten by various governments, give the extraordinary circumstances? (I've no idea if that would even be possible, legally or otherwise... Just me thinking out loud)

Cant believe the tories would do anything to help anyone else other than themselves?

 

 

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The devil is in the detail...

This morning it was said that our first delivery should be enough to vaccinate 400,000 people maximum.

Millions will follow but not until the end of the year, so the real programmes will probably start in January/February.

 

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2 hours ago, Verbal said:

Unfortunately nor will you, Mustafa.  We have you down for the placebo.  

Not fussed mate, im relatively young, fit and healthy. You shouldnt worrying about me think what Mrs verbal will do to you than Covid if she catches you on here!

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Gavin Williamson telling LBC that we approved the vaccine because 'we're a much better country then France or the USA'.

He'd be too much of a baby to be in a Reception class, but somehow finds himself in charge of education!

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14 minutes ago, LGTL said:

Gavin Williamson telling LBC that we approved the vaccine because 'we're a much better country then France or the USA'.

He'd be too much of a baby to be in a Reception class, but somehow finds himself in charge of education!

And what do you think the EU would have said if their regulators approved it first, something along the lines of 'due to having the best clinicians in the world the EU has managed to get this through the regulators quicker than anyone else, proving above all else our expertise in immunology.  If Britain was still part of the EU the vaccine would be on its way to them now, unfortunately they decided to go it alone' I suspect.

And the Americans would have probably said something along the lines of 'due to our clinicians leading the way, we have managed to regulate this before any other country, giving the American people the first opportunity of any other country to use this ground breaking breakthrough'

So, yes he does sound like a bit of a helmet, but no more than any other politician in the world would have sounded, maybe people should actually feel a bit of pride in their country for once instead of the continual bashing of it.

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Where did I bash the country? The fact is, a grown man in high office went onto the radio and gave an answer I’d expect from a 5 year old. 
 

Luckily that buffoon doesn’t detract from the great work our scientists have done/are doing. 

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Just now, LGTL said:

Where did I bash the country? The fact is, a grown man in high office went onto the radio and gave an answer I’d expect from a 5 year old. 
 

Luckily that buffoon doesn’t detract from the great work our scientists have done/are doing. 

This grown man has faced on onslaught for almost a year of journalists trying to catch him out with their ridiculous whataboutery, politicians who haven't had to face this responsibility telling him he's doing it wrong and he's an idiot without offering a solution, other than we could do it better, on top of that, 1000s of people have died, which him and his colleagues are getting the blame for (China seems to have escaped all the blame, it's all down to the nasty tories), even though no one else would have faired any better, which, I imagine weighs pretty heavily on your shoulders. So yeah, he reacted with a bit of triumphalism, and yeah he does sound like a bit of a helmet, but you know what, I bet him and his colleagues are feeling absolute relief, like a massive boot being took off your shoulders knowing that this is happening and I suspect it got the better of him.  He should be given a break and a bit of understanding.  I suspect politicians from other countries would have done similar.

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5 minutes ago, Millbrook Saint said:

This grown man has faced on onslaught for almost a year of journalists trying to catch him out with their ridiculous whataboutery, politicians who haven't had to face this responsibility telling him he's doing it wrong and he's an idiot without offering a solution, other than we could do it better, on top of that, 1000s of people have died, which him and his colleagues are getting the blame for (China seems to have escaped all the blame, it's all down to the nasty tories), even though no one else would have faired any better, which, I imagine weighs pretty heavily on your shoulders. So yeah, he reacted with a bit of triumphalism, and yeah he does sound like a bit of a helmet, but you know what, I bet him and his colleagues are feeling absolute relief, like a massive boot being took off your shoulders knowing that this is happening and I suspect it got the better of him.  He should be given a break and a bit of understanding.  I suspect politicians from other countries would have done similar.

clapping applaud GIF

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11 minutes ago, Millbrook Saint said:

This grown man has faced on onslaught for almost a year of journalists trying to catch him out with their ridiculous whataboutery, politicians who haven't had to face this responsibility telling him he's doing it wrong and he's an idiot without offering a solution, other than we could do it better, on top of that, 1000s of people have died, which him and his colleagues are getting the blame for (China seems to have escaped all the blame, it's all down to the nasty tories), even though no one else would have faired any better, which, I imagine weighs pretty heavily on your shoulders. So yeah, he reacted with a bit of triumphalism, and yeah he does sound like a bit of a helmet, but you know what, I bet him and his colleagues are feeling absolute relief, like a massive boot being took off your shoulders knowing that this is happening and I suspect it got the better of him.  He should be given a break and a bit of understanding.  I suspect politicians from other countries would have done similar.

Doesn’t weigh on my shoulders. I’m in the political wilderness at the moment.  
 

I’m glad you agree he sounded like a helmet. 

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1 hour ago, LGTL said:

Where did I bash the country? The fact is, a grown man in high office went onto the radio and gave an answer I’d expect from a 5 year old. 
 

Luckily that buffoon doesn’t detract from the great work our scientists have done/are doing. 

When he was Defence Minister, they didn't call him "Private Pike" for nothing.

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54 minutes ago, Millbrook Saint said:

This grown man has faced on onslaught for almost a year of journalists trying to catch him out with their ridiculous whataboutery, politicians who haven't had to face this responsibility telling him he's doing it wrong and he's an idiot without offering a solution, other than we could do it better, on top of that, 1000s of people have died, which him and his colleagues are getting the blame for (China seems to have escaped all the blame, it's all down to the nasty tories), even though no one else would have faired any better, which, I imagine weighs pretty heavily on your shoulders. So yeah, he reacted with a bit of triumphalism, and yeah he does sound like a bit of a helmet, but you know what, I bet him and his colleagues are feeling absolute relief, like a massive boot being took off your shoulders knowing that this is happening and I suspect it got the better of him.  He should be given a break and a bit of understanding.  I suspect politicians from other countries would have done similar.

What did the Tories do when labour were caught in the middle of the global financial crisis, they made political capital out of it. It's what the other side do, they can all take it.

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1 hour ago, Millbrook Saint said:

This grown man has faced on onslaught for almost a year of journalists trying to catch him out with their ridiculous whataboutery, politicians who haven't had to face this responsibility telling him he's doing it wrong and he's an idiot without offering a solution, other than we could do it better, on top of that, 1000s of people have died, which him and his colleagues are getting the blame for (China seems to have escaped all the blame, it's all down to the nasty tories), even though no one else would have faired any better, which, I imagine weighs pretty heavily on your shoulders. So yeah, he reacted with a bit of triumphalism, and yeah he does sound like a bit of a helmet, but you know what, I bet him and his colleagues are feeling absolute relief, like a massive boot being took off your shoulders knowing that this is happening and I suspect it got the better of him.  He should be given a break and a bit of understanding.  I suspect politicians from other countries would have done similar.

"No one else would have faired any better"? 

He was part of a government that has presided over one of the worst death rates in the world (even higher than Trump's). Many other countries have done far better

Not sure what he was boasting about. The vaccine was developed by a Turkish scientist working for a German/US company and is manufactured in Belgium. He says we're better than the EU countries because they want to take a longer look at the safety issues. Just hope no corners were cut.

 

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54 minutes ago, whelk said:

I for one am glad we are going to be first to become one of Bill’s bots

More to the point, the government have finally let slip who their priority targets are for this technology. 85 year olds with Alzheimer’s and Polish nurses on minimum wage, that’s who the global Illuminati are really afraid of.

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26 minutes ago, ecuk268 said:

He says we're better than the EU countries because they want to take a longer look at the safety issues. Just hope no corners were cut.

 

Me too. This is a new technology, the first mRNA vaccine and we are rushing to approve. The Oxford vaccine by contrast is a proven safe technique. 

Its like the difference between being the first to drive the new model Ford Mondeo or the first to travel in the unproven hyperloop which has had its testing cut short.     

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14 minutes ago, buctootim said:

Me too. This is a new technology, the first mRNA vaccine and we are rushing to approve. The Oxford vaccine by contrast is a proven safe technique. 

Its like the difference between being the first to drive the new model Ford Mondeo or the first to travel in the unproven hyperloop which has had its testing cut short.     

Playing devils advocate, let’s say you lived in ISIS controlled Syria and the options were to try and leave immediately in the hyper loop or to stay there another month, then take the Mondeo?

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8 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

Playing devils advocate, let’s say you lived in ISIS controlled Syria and the options were to try and leave immediately in the hyper loop or to stay there another month, then take the Mondeo?

So far there have been 60,000 UK deaths, so say 1:1,000 population. The death rate for those under 70 over the past year is around 1:10,000. So for a month say 1:120,000?   

If I spent a month in IS territory drinking, smoking, getting laid and not praying would I have a greater chance than 1:120,000 of getting killed? 

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9 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

Playing devils advocate, let’s say you lived in ISIS controlled Syria and the options were to try and leave immediately in the hyper loop or to stay there another month, then take the Mondeo?

Has the Mondeo been modified with James Bond type shit? 

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24 minutes ago, buctootim said:

So far there have been 60,000 UK deaths, so say 1:1,000 population. The death rate for those under 70 over the past year is around 1:10,000. So for a month say 1:120,000?   

If I spent a month in IS territory drinking, smoking, getting laid and not praying would I have a greater chance than 1:120,000 of getting killed? 

It’s more the principle than a literal comparison of the actual chances and those figures are assuming the whole country been infected already, which is obviously wrong. Also, people are bizarrely sticking with the ‘if you don’t die it’s fine’ line of thinking. I’m far more concerned with the long term side effects of Covid than this vaccine; ongoing fatigue or even permanent lung damage.

 

To each their own but I’d take my chances with the Pfizer vaccine over actually getting Covid, any day of the week.

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1 minute ago, Lighthouse said:

It’s more the principle than a literal comparison of the actual chances and those figures are assuming the whole country been infected already, which is obviously wrong. Also, people are bizarrely sticking with the ‘if you don’t die it’s fine’ line of thinking. I’m far more concerned with the long term side effects of Covid than this vaccine; ongoing fatigue or even permanent lung damage.

 

To each their own but I’d take my chances with the Pfizer vaccine over actually getting Covid, any day of the week.

If it was going to be the only vaccine ever available I'd probably take it. although not in the first few months. But if there was an alternative of an attenuated virus vaccine like Oxford's available a  few weeks after that would be a much much better option. 

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1 minute ago, View From The Top said:

Same here.

Having seen it's effects on a fit and healthy 41 year old and a fit and healthy 55 year old, there is no way I want to risk it.

Yes, best avoided. Personally I’d prefer a vaccine with 90% efficacy than one with 60%.

To be really secure I’d take all three.

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14 minutes ago, buctootim said:

If it was going to be the only vaccine ever available I'd probably take it. although not in the first few months. But if there was an alternative of an attenuated virus vaccine like Oxford's available a  few weeks after that would be a much much better option. 

I realise that you might be nervous of the Pfizer vaccine because it's a 'new' technology, but your body is constantly creating and breaking down mRNA. The vaccine only hangs around in your body long enough for the body to respond to it and build up an immune response that will also react to COVID 19, before it'll be broken down in the exact same way. There's absolutely nothing to suggest it's got any ability to cause any long term effects itself, beyond triggering your immune system to do what it does with any other foreign presence in your system.

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22 minutes ago, buctootim said:

If it was going to be the only vaccine ever available I'd probably take it. although not in the first few months. But if there was an alternative of an attenuated virus vaccine like Oxford's available a  few weeks after that would be a much much better option. 

If a trial of 40,000 volunteers resulted in 200 fatalities and we had proven medical reason as to how and why, there’s no way on Earth you be trying to rationalise it as ‘mostly the over-70 volunteers died’.

 

if I had a 50-50 choice - Pfizer or Covid - even over the next month, I’d take the vaccine any time.

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13 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Yes, best avoided. Personally I’d prefer a vaccine with 90% efficacy than one with 60%.

To be really secure I’d take all three.

Depends though doesn't it. Supposedly even if it is 60% there's no evidence it doesn't prevent serious illness. I would probably take either but also given the choice I'd take the traditional vaccine. 

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1 hour ago, buctootim said:

Me too. This is a new technology, the first mRNA vaccine and we are rushing to approve. The Oxford vaccine by contrast is a proven safe technique. 

Its like the difference between being the first to drive the new model Ford Mondeo or the first to travel in the unproven hyperloop which has had its testing cut short.     

That's the spirit, very pioneering!

Do you still read by candle light and post using an Amstrad computer or have you accepted that some things can be better than the originals.

It's a good job you're a yoghurt knitter and not a scientist as we'd have no chance of progressing :mcinnes:

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13 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

If a trial of 40,000 volunteers resulted in 200 fatalities and we had proven medical reason as to how and why, there’s no way on Earth you be trying to rationalise it as ‘mostly the over-70 volunteers died’.

 

if I had a 50-50 choice - Pfizer or Covid - even over the next month, I’d take the vaccine any time.

What a bizarre post. Yes if it were a choice between being infected with a serious virus or taking a new vaccine that of course I'd take the vaccine. Doh. Brilliant point

But that isnt the choice. Its waiting four months until my age group gets offered a vaccine and then opting to make an informed decision.    

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Just now, Weston Super Saint said:

That's the spirit, very pioneering!

Do you still read by candle light and post using an Amstrad computer or have you accepted that some things can be better than the originals.

It's a good job you're a yoghurt knitter and not a scientist as we'd have no chance of progressing :mcinnes:

Fuck you're thick and dull. No a good combo

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4 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Depends though doesn't it. Supposedly even if it is 60% there's no evidence it doesn't prevent serious illness. I would probably take either but also given the choice I'd take the traditional vaccine. 

Exactly. And with the half first dose it is 90% effective. 

The issue with the Pfizer vaccine will be storage which needs to be kept at -80c, thawed slowly and then used quickly despite coming in batches of 480. Any hiccup will compromise its efficacy.

Even with conventional vaccines which only need a fridge there is a 25% loss rate 

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