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They may have contacted a virus outside of the workplace which has hundreds of infected patients in it whilst the necessary PPE was in criminally short supply?

 

Bit of a stretch that one.

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His comment was in no way vicious. Dying at work from lack of protective gear is what's vicious. Same as UK troops abroad.

 

You sound like Trump, all the professional journalists asking "unacceptable" questions at the briefings should be barred.

 

how do you know they are dying at work due to lack of protective gear?

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I was stunned when Hancock tried to shift the blame for lack of PPE onto nurses , doctors and care workers using them when they “didn’t “ need to . It didn’t appear on line in the reports of the briefing but the front line workers are making their voices heard today .

He is still trying to defend his comments today , of all the people to criticise they are the last to pick on .

Globalisation is showing the cracks now , if it’s all made somewhere else you are vulnerable, a bit like the ERG saying poor people will be able to afford food after brexit because UK can import cheap food from around the world that they could Buy , so goodbye British farmers.

 

I disagree with much that you say, but you make an interesting point about globalisation.

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how do you know?

 

Taking into account the fact that his government fannied around for ages, not shutting the country down despite warnings from around the world and massively failed to provide NHS staff with the correct equipment to deal with the virus it doesn't take much of leap to suggest some of the deaths lay at the door of these decisions.

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They may have contacted a virus outside of the workplace which has hundreds of infected patients in it whilst the necessary PPE was in criminally short supply?

 

Bit of a stretch that one.

 

No one is saying all of them and I should have been clearer. ‘Some’ may have been a more appropriate word. One is too many of course. Especially if it could be prevented.

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Taking into account the fact that his government fannied around for ages, not shutting the country down despite warnings from around the world and massively failed to provide NHS staff with the correct equipment to deal with the virus it doesn't take much of leap to suggest some of the deaths lay at the door of these decisions.

 

You dont know then. thanks

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In a sane world, Martin Lewis would get Richard Branson's "Sir", and Branson would pay back all the millions he got by suing the NHS, and the other millions he avoids in tax. Beardy C***.

 

Well said. Mr Lewis is also giving up a million of his own money to support charities through this difficult time. He managed to increase this fund to 3 million by roping in some other selfless people.

 

I doubt Branson, Mike Ashley, Phillip Green, Daniel Levy or any other c*nt of that ilk made any donation.

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There is criticising the government and there is continuing the anti-tory/brexit viciousness, that he (and you) clearly display

it is the same stance that makes the daily briefings unwatchable as soon as the journo's get to ask their 'questions'..

 

You are a very strange individual “quote”

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You dont know then. thanks

 

It will all come out in time. I can't believe that anyone would think that delaying lockdown and not having enough equipment for NHS staff would do anything other than result in a huge number of cases, and therefore more deaths.

 

Countries who went in early with more stringent measures have far less cases and deaths.

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It will all come out in time. I can't believe that anyone would think that delaying lockdown and not having enough equipment for NHS staff would do anything other than result in a huge number of cases, and therefore more deaths.

 

Countries who went in early with more stringent measures have far less cases and deaths.

 

delaying the lockdown is a fair point. However, given the lightest of lockdowns we have, remains in place because anyone of influence has to constantly tell the country how wonderful we are, and now journo's are demanding to know when we are coming out (after just 3 weeks). I wonder what stomach the UK would have for a proper lockdown?

 

then there is the question about the devastation to our economy already. That will kill plenty of people down the line.

 

timing of a lockdown is absolutely impossible to get right.

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You dont know then. thanks

 

Whereas you will ignore the credentials of any experts who say the same whilst championing misunderstood individual like Toby Young.

Thick as mince

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You dont know then. thanks

 

The Govt are not making an effort to collate and pass on stats about deaths of NHS staff as it needs the staff to keep on working .

 

Remember that the Govt have hired a right wing campain advisor from NZ to "get their message across" so what they say in pubic has been carefully thought out to put them in the best light (most of the time) so it is no surprise that how/where NHS staff have been infected has been put in doubt . This message is then repeated on places like here and before you know it black is now white . So NHS staff didn't catch the virus in their hospital and if they did it wasn't because of lack of PPE it is because they used too much PPE so they didn't have enough to protect themselves , then went shopping on the way home and caught it there .

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It will all come out in time. I can't believe that anyone would think that delaying lockdown and not having enough equipment for NHS staff would do anything other than result in a huge number of cases, and therefore more deaths.

 

Countries who went in early with more stringent measures have far less cases and deaths.

 

Had we gone into full lockdown earlier you would have been on here whining about unnecessary restrictions on your freedom, how were you supposed to earn a living and how it would damage the economy

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You dont know then. thanks

 

For someone who call others strange, it's completely bizarre how, like Hypo etc, you will continuously defend the government no matter what. Weird.

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For someone who call others strange, it's completely bizarre how, like Hypo etc, you will continuously defend the government no matter what. Weird.

 

What’s weird is you & others continually moaning about the Government. Give it a rest, it’s a bloody difficult situation & most of the country seem to be behind them.

 

12d1b097890091fd3b335e18e8bdcec6.jpg

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

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For someone who call others strange, it's completely bizarre how, like Hypo etc, you will continuously defend the government no matter what. Weird.
Thing is, this is not a party political issue IMO. But do carry on.

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And you, of course, know and can prove otherwise.

 

Have I said that I do?

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Have I said that I do?

No, so wind your neck in and stop acting like Dom Cummins' mouthpiece.

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What’s weird is you & others continually moaning about the Government. Give it a rest, it’s a bloody difficult situation & most of the country seem to be behind them.

 

12d1b097890091fd3b335e18e8bdcec6.jpg

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

At times of crisis people " rally to the flag" and support the Government. This will change and people will start to question the Government as the death toll rises and (if) the UK registers the highest number of European deaths.

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It's perfect possible to call out the government for perceived mistakes without it being laced with political point scoring. I'd be doing exactly the same whoever was in charge.

 

As for moaning if the lockdown had started earlier, I doubt I would have been. We're talking a week or so earlier, not a month. People were discussing a possible suspension of the Premier League the weekend we played Newcastle but it wasn't until nearly 2 weeks later on 20th March when the pubs shut.

 

That was obviously the period when the virus began to spread more widely and large scale gatherings were still taking place. It's impossible to know how many less lives would have been lost if it had been done then, but it has to be a significant number.

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I just wish the politicians could just be themselves but can see such lack of talent amongst so many they have no confidence to answer just desperate to remember their lines to recite. Depressing.

Yeah we get it isn’t your fault and isn’t a political issue but would have faith if there was some honest opinions not just trotted our lines. Remember to say ‘unprecedented’ and ‘global’

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I just wish the politicians could just be themselves but can see such lack of talent amongst so many they have no confidence to answer just desperate to remember their lines to recite. Depressing.

Yeah we get it isn’t your fault and isn’t a political issue but would have faith if there was some honest opinions not just trotted our lines. Remember to say ‘unprecedented’ and ‘global’

Part of the problem is the media that are waiting for a slip up or something they can plaster on the front page. Sometimes you get a good question from a journalist but normally it's something ridiculous like asking for a definite timetable for the lockdown when they know they won't be getting an answer.

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Part of the problem is the media that are waiting for a slip up or something they can plaster on the front page. Sometimes you get a good question from a journalist but normally it's something ridiculous like asking for a definite timetable for the lockdown when they know they won't be getting an answer.

 

The media have been woeful during this whole thing, shockingly poor. The art of proper journalism is being lost.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

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The media have been woeful during this whole thing, shockingly poor. The art of proper journalism is being lost.

 

 

The media have been an utter disgrace. Full of scaremongering, speculation, oh and a bit more scaremongering.

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The media have been woeful during this whole thing, shockingly poor. The art of proper journalism is being lost.

 

 

The media have been an utter disgrace. Full of scaremongering, speculation, oh and a bit more scaremongering.

Clearly not enough scaremongering given how many ****s are still flouting the lockdown.

 

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk

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The media have been woeful during this whole thing, shockingly poor. The art of proper journalism is being lost.

 

 

The media have been an utter disgrace. Full of scaremongering, speculation, oh and a bit more scaremongering.

 

Would you like them to tell you it’s all ok?

 

That was response to Dave F but seems to have quoted LD

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The media have been woeful during this whole thing, shockingly poor. The art of proper journalism is being lost.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

They’ve been like that for years.

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Media is starting to say that fat or abese people are more liable to have severe conditions if they contract Corona.

 

We can expect both US and UK to have loads of severe cases then more than in other countries.

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In 1940, the people of Britain rallied behind Churchill, and supported his government throughout the war. In 1945 they voted him out in the biggest landslide Labour ever received. A fact that Johnson will be only too aware of, having written an appallingly researched biography of Churchill, full of factual errors about his hero.

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For someone who call others strange, it's completely bizarre how, like Hypo etc, you will continuously defend the government no matter what. Weird.

 

 

The government has been following the advice of scientific experts. If you want to have a go at someone try picking on someone that actually gives the information to the government.

 

Nobody has had the misfortune to see such a concerted attack from a vicious pandemic before.

 

If you can do better then you should be giving the advice and not those that are.

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It's perfect possible to call out the government for perceived mistakes without it being laced with political point scoring. I'd be doing exactly the same whoever was in charge.

 

As for moaning if the lockdown had started earlier, I doubt I would have been. We're talking a week or so earlier, not a month. People were discussing a possible suspension of the Premier League the weekend we played Newcastle but it wasn't until nearly 2 weeks later on 20th March when the pubs shut.

 

That was obviously the period when the virus began to spread more widely and large scale gatherings were still taking place. It's impossible to know how many less lives would have been lost if it had been done then, but it has to be a significant number.

 

 

We were told that a lockdown would be forced on us if the idiots flouting the request to follow distance restrictions etc continued to flout the requirements. Even now we have seen many flouting the rules which are now law.

 

Should we have sent the military out to keep our streets empty? Perhaps start shooting the dumb idiots ignoring the stay at home rules?

 

None of us has an obvious answer to this problem. As for the possibility of seeing the UK have the most deaths in Europe. This could well be caused buy the simple fact that we have more obese unwell people per 10000 than the rest of Europe.

 

The government is blamed for lack of PPE yet these things should be ordered by the medical fraternity. The government stepped in when it was obvious that there was a shortage. Like all of the equipment we need to fight this pandemic previous governments could be held responsible for lack of funding.

 

We have a population that is growing older by the year. Less people earning enough to fund the required amounts to stay afloat has meant a time like this has almost become inevitable.

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The government has been following the advice of scientific experts. If you want to have a go at someone try picking on someone that actually gives the information to the government.

 

Nobody has had the misfortune to see such a concerted attack from a vicious pandemic before.

 

If you can do better then you should be giving the advice and not those that are.

 

No expert has said, “don’t conduct widespread testing”, “don’t try to trace contacts”, “don’t invest in decent PPE”, “Cheltenham Festival is a good idea”.

 

The government tells experts what information and options it wants within certain parameters. Ultimately the government sets policy. It’s clear that the initial response was based on the principle of not wanting to overreact and damage the economy, so it would have taken advice on possible options against that guiding premise. Then they realised they’d screwed up and did a sharp u-turn.

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No expert has said, “don’t conduct widespread testing”, “don’t try to trace contacts”, “don’t invest in decent PPE”, “Cheltenham Festival is a good idea”.

 

The government tells experts what information and options it wants within certain parameters. Ultimately the government sets policy. It’s clear that the initial response was based on the principle of not wanting to overreact and damage the economy, so it would have taken advice on possible options against that guiding premise. Then they realised they’d screwed up and did a sharp u-turn.

 

Exactly. Saying do not go to pub but allowing pubs to stay open was not much of a strategy. Don’t go to pub and mix but allow 60;000 racegoers to mix was mental.

Understand the drip fed message to make us all ‘get it’ gradually rather than brutal WTF is happening and why bringing potential rebellion. But hey hindsight is a wonderful thing,

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No expert has said, “don’t conduct widespread testing”, “don’t try to trace contacts”, “don’t invest in decent PPE”, “Cheltenham Festival is a good idea”.

 

The government tells experts what information and options it wants within certain parameters. Ultimately the government sets policy. It’s clear that the initial response was based on the principle of not wanting to overreact and damage the economy, so it would have taken advice on possible options against that guiding premise. Then they realised they’d screwed up and did a sharp u-turn.

 

This is spot on.

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Posted (edited)
No expert has said, “don’t conduct widespread testing”, “don’t try to trace contacts”, “don’t invest in decent PPE”, “Cheltenham Festival is a good idea”.

 

The government tells experts what information and options it wants within certain parameters. Ultimately the government sets policy. It’s clear that the initial response was based on the principle of not wanting to overreact and damage the economy, so it would have taken advice on possible options against that guiding premise. Then they realised they’d screwed up and did a sharp u-turn.

 

The classic was from Helen Whately, a health minister, who said mid-March that stopping mass gatherings didn’t have a large impact on the spread of the virus. That said, the same line was peddled by the Deputy Chief Medical Officer too. Wonder if they still agree...

Edited by shurlock

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No expert has said, “don’t conduct widespread testing”, “don’t try to trace contacts”, “don’t invest in decent PPE”, “Cheltenham Festival is a good idea”.

 

The government tells experts what information and options it wants within certain parameters. Ultimately the government sets policy. It’s clear that the initial response was based on the principle of not wanting to overreact and damage the economy, so it would have taken advice on possible options against that guiding premise. Then they realised they’d screwed up and did a sharp u-turn.

 

Or as one government advisor summarised it “ herd immunity, protect the economy, and if that means some pensioners die, too bad.”

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While this is an incredibly difficult crisis to manage with many factors to balance, we can't even organise a basic delivery of PPE from A to B.

 

Hancock is so far out of his depth he's nearer to France than the UK, Patel is dangerously incoherent, Raab has no answer to any question, Boris doesn't understand basic medical advice, and when you get into the detail of the Chancellor's grand rescue plan for the economy, it amounts to a small tin of beans.

 

This is not a team performing well.

And if you still believe the nonesense we are drip-fed everyday, that we lead the world in everything - see New Zealand or Germany.

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No expert has said, “don’t conduct widespread testing”, “don’t try to trace contacts”, “don’t invest in decent PPE”, “Cheltenham Festival is a good idea”.

 

The government tells experts what information and options it wants within certain parameters. Ultimately the government sets policy. It’s clear that the initial response was based on the principle of not wanting to overreact and damage the economy, so it would have taken advice on possible options against that guiding premise. Then they realised they’d screwed up and did a sharp u-turn.

Correct.

 

Also worth remembering the culture of the current administration and political discourse.

 

Even six weeks ago folk like Chris Whitty and Patrick Vallance - senior civil servants, unelected, bureaucrats, technical, non-partisan - would be described by many as "the swamp" .

 

Ignoring, belittling, dismissing and mocking their advice, their roles and them as people would be celebrated and a badge of honour. Who voted for these *****s?

 

Let's not pretend there was an environment where difficult/uncomfortable advice would be welcomed or acted on. Unlike a country led by, say, a qualified, experienced scientist.

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We were told that a lockdown would be forced on us if the idiots flouting the request to follow distance restrictions etc continued to flout the requirements. Even now we have seen many flouting the rules which are now law.

 

Should we have sent the military out to keep our streets empty? Perhaps start shooting the dumb idiots ignoring the stay at home rules?

 

None of us has an obvious answer to this problem. As for the possibility of seeing the UK have the most deaths in Europe. This could well be caused buy the simple fact that we have more obese unwell people per 10000 than the rest of Europe.

 

The government is blamed for lack of PPE yet these things should be ordered by the medical fraternity. The government stepped in when it was obvious that there was a shortage. Like all of the equipment we need to fight this pandemic previous governments could be held responsible for lack of funding.

 

We have a population that is growing older by the year. Less people earning enough to fund the required amounts to stay afloat has meant a time like this has almost become inevitable.

 

It’s not keeping the streets empty that’s the problem. It’s stopping domestic social gatherings of people from different households.

 

The lack of PPE is due to the insistence on central purchasing.

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The government has been following the advice of scientific experts. If you want to have a go at someone try picking on someone that actually gives the information to the government.

 

Nobody has had the misfortune to see such a concerted attack from a vicious pandemic before.

 

If you can do better then you should be giving the advice and not those that are.

 

The government chose which advisers to follow.

 

Prof Neil Ferguson of Imperial College has a very patchy history and is widely criticised. His handling of the foot and mouth epidemic led to the unnecessary slaughter of over 6 million animals. Now we are slaughtering hundreds of thousands of Britons.

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8164121/Professor-predicted-500-000-Britons-die-coronavirus-accused-having-patchy-record.html

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There’s not a simple answer to the PPE shortages. Yes, the government under estimated the abilities of NHS Supply Chain (a private sector company). The military is now supporting distribution. Things are slowly getting better. Nevertheless, there has been mass panic buying of PPE on the global markets by most governments. Trump has used the war time Defence Production Act to take control of certain medical and PPE products within the US. China has been selling to the highest bidders, as their production lines have returned to normal.

 

The global shortages of PPE products and the raw materials to manufacturer them, have affected many countries. Economies with a strong manufacturing based have coped the best. In South Korea, Samsung has switched some of its production to PPE. The UK is mainly a service driving economy. This has adversely impacted on the UK. We’re too reliant on globalisation.

 

When this is all over, deglobalisation will be something big business and governments will need to consider, in order to strengthen the robustness of international supply chains.

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It’s not keeping the streets empty that’s the problem. It’s stopping domestic social gatherings of people from different households.

 

The lack of PPE is due to the insistence on central purchasing.

 

 

Maybe I am being stupid but surely by keeping people off of the streets we are stopping gatherings. If we are not allowed to go out except for shopping, working etc we are unable to go to large gatherings.

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The government chose which advisers to follow.

 

Prof Neil Ferguson of Imperial College has a very patchy history and is widely criticised. His handling of the foot and mouth epidemic led to the unnecessary slaughter of over 6 million animals. Now we are slaughtering hundreds of thousands of Britons.

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8164121/Professor-predicted-500-000-Britons-die-coronavirus-accused-having-patchy-record.html

 

Now I am being thick.

 

So instead of having a lockdown as we have you would let us carry on as normal. If maintained, the lockdown stops gatherings and the greater chance of spreading the disease. Thus less chance of quote '' His handling of the foot and mouth epidemic led to the unnecessary slaughter of over 6 million animals. Now we are slaughtering hundreds of thousands of Britons.''

 

I personally don't know who is advising the government, but from what we have been told there are leading scientists, medical, and business experts. Not just one person.

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The government has been following the advice of scientific experts. If you want to have a go at someone try picking on someone that actually gives the information to the government.

 

Nobody has had the misfortune to see such a concerted attack from a vicious pandemic before.

 

If you can do better then you should be giving the advice and not those that are.

 

Funny, a couple of years back the Tories were telling us the British people had had enough of experts.

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The government has been following the advice of scientific experts. If you want to have a go at someone try picking on someone that actually gives the information to the government.

 

Nobody has had the misfortune to see such a concerted attack from a vicious pandemic before.

 

If you can do better then you should be giving the advice and not those that are.

 

[video=youtube;n3NAx3tsy-k]

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No expert has said, “don’t conduct widespread testing”, “don’t try to trace contacts”, “don’t invest in decent PPE”, “Cheltenham Festival is a good idea”.

 

The government tells experts what information and options it wants within certain parameters. Ultimately the government sets policy. It’s clear that the initial response was based on the principle of not wanting to overreact and damage the economy, so it would have taken advice on possible options against that guiding premise. Then they realised they’d screwed up and did a sharp u-turn.

 

Spot on. Our approach has been a shambles. Slow, indecisive, confused, just plain crap.

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He also stressed the importance of washing your hands. Shaking hands is not considered dangerous if you wash your hands immediately after.

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Funny, a couple of years back the Tories were telling us the British people had had enough of experts.

 

That quote relates specifically to "expert" economists

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