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The advice was to test , track and isolate but the Govt abandoned that but insisted they were following science with their subsequent actions . Everyone knows they have made a hash of it but thankfully death rates are slowly coming down .

Doctor on TV says there is the winter effect , cold nasal passages etc , which is now over so infection rates should slow down.

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OK then please find anyone you consider qualified who has used the phrase "second highest death rate" without any context. The only stipulation is it can't be a far left activist on twitter. I'll wait.

 

Only you saying it was out of context I used it as my opinion that we had Government own slides saying as much.

 

Here you go quick google https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/05/uk-coronavirus-death-toll-rises-above-32000-to-highest-in-europe

 

Wait is over go have a cup of tea

 

 

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Only you saying it was out of context I used it as my opinion that we had Government own slides saying as much.

 

Here you go quick google https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/05/uk-coronavirus-death-toll-rises-above-32000-to-highest-in-europe

 

Wait is over go have a cup of tea

 

 

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Lol so I assume you'll just ignore my question then. A guardian headline about the death rate just proves my point.

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So my point being that maybe we have trusted the scientists too much and not common sense.

I think at start we should have had task force across all parties and even ex PM’s to offer experience.

 

It’s would take out the politics and maybe some of things done badly handled better.

 

 

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Are you related to Donald Trump?

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Lol so I assume you'll just ignore my question then. A guardian headline about the death rate just proves my point.

 

What do you make of the UK’s excess mortality figures to date? The government believes excess mortality is the best metric to assess the impact of covid-19 and the most reliable for the purposes of cross-country comparison.

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What do you make of the UK’s excess mortality figures? The government believes excess mortality is the best metric to assess the impact of covid-19 and the most reliable for the purposes of cross-country comparison.
It's a lot which is clearly a concern. Many thousands dead from the virus and more on top of that due to the lockdown. That doesn't mean we stop listening to experts or think the government wants to kill children by opening schools though.

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Posted (edited)
It's a lot which is clearly a concern. Many thousands dead from the virus and more on top of that due to the lockdown. That doesn't mean we stop listening to experts or think the government wants to kill children by opening schools though.

 

This makes for particularly depressing reading:

 

https://voxeu.org/article/excess-mortality-england-european-outlier-covid-19-pandemic

 

Agree we shouldn't stop listening to experts, though is an area where the evidence base is unsettled and evolving and equally qualified experts can come to differing conclusions.

Edited by shurlock

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Lol so I assume you'll just ignore my question then. A guardian headline about the death rate just proves my point.

 

Well you are ignoring the Government own slides so we are even.

You didn’t answer about Kawasaki disease a risk or not?

 

 

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So my point being that maybe we have trusted the scientists too much and not common sense.

I think at start we should have had task force across all parties and even ex PM’s to offer experience.

 

It’s would take out the politics and maybe some of things done badly handled better.

 

We were told by the Govt they were "following the science " but SAGE was made mainly of people that were employed by the Govt plus a few science people and political advisors from No10 so the advice they were following was not " the science" at all .

 

Likewise Acadamy schools that report directly to the Govt are keen to open ASAP , I wonder why ?!!

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Likewise Acadamy schools that report directly to the Govt are keen to open ASAP , I wonder why ?!!

 

Less unionised workforce?

 

 

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Well you are ignoring the Government own slides so we are even.

You didn’t answer about Kawasaki disease a risk or not?

 

 

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No I'm not, I haven't ignored anything all I've said is that it's moronic to quote something like second highest death rate out of context and think that's some sort of gotcha. I'm also not the one making the fatuous claim that the government wants to kill children and that we should ignore scientists.

 

Not sure why you are talking about kawasaki disease but of course it is a risk like anything else is. It has affected a relatively small amount of children, there is currently no proven link to covid (in fact the numbers with kawasaki are actually lower than average for this time of year) and last time I checked it had led to one death. As tragic as that is, the measures taken need to be proportionate to the level of risk which is low.

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Less unionised workforce?

 

 

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And there you go, the reason why schools won’t go back until September. Easy to sit on your arse on full pay for 6 months whilst th economy tanks knowing the unions will protect you.

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Less unionised workforce?

 

I think it is because they are a privitised state school system who get their money direct from the Govt. It is the Boss of one of the Acadamy chains that said they would start on 1st June , no word from any of their teachers , probably because they want to keep their job.

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Less unionised workforce?

 

I think it is because they are a privitised state school system who get their money direct from the Govt. It is the Boss of one of the Acadamy chains that said they would start on 1st June , no word from any of their teachers , probably because they want to keep their job.

You realise there's a number of teachers that have been going into school this entire time and many who want to start up again? Also fifty percent of teachers aren't in a union.

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And there you go, the reason why schools won’t go back until September. Easy to sit on your arse on full pay for 6 months whilst th economy tanks knowing the unions will protect you.

 

The schools are still open , the teachers are looking after essential workers children and also teaching remotely . I'm not sure their Union can protect them much these days . After a bit more time and as things get moving in other areas I'm pretty sure schools will be opening fully . Aside from all the issues where exams have not been taken etc etc ...

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You realise there's a number of teachers that have been going into school this entire time and many who want to start up again? Also fifty percent of teachers aren't in a union.

 

Exactly. My partner has been going in. Most of the teachers at her school have been fine. There's been a few who have come up with dubious reasons for not working, and some others who have legitimate health reasons for being off.

 

I'm sure most places have the same mix of resilient staff and some who will say anything to not go in.

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Exactly. My partner has been going in. Most of the teachers at her school have been fine. There's been a few who have come up with dubious reasons for not working, and some others who have legitimate health reasons for being off.

 

I'm sure most places have the same mix of resilient staff and some who will say anything to not go in.

 

Exactly every workplace is the same. I've worked through the whole lockdown. I had three days at home, when the government first announced the lockdown, and was then recalled by my employer, as essential staff, and have been going into work ever since. Of my team of six I'm the only one working as the rest have had reasons not to. Some of the reasons have been legit and speaking to them they'd like to return to work. Others are just taking advantage of the situation people are the same everywhere.

 

As for teachers my wife is a primary school teacher she has been working throughout lockdown some days in school and some days at home. She is worried about many aspects of the 1st June return which seems pretty normal to me. The government turned on the fear tactics to get people to stay at home so it's pretty natural that it is going to take people time to feel safe again. It's not just teachers who are worried many parents are reluctant to send their kids back even if the schools do re-open.

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And there you go, the reason why schools won’t go back until September. Easy to sit on your arse on full pay for 6 months whilst th economy tanks knowing the unions will protect you.

 

You know nothing about teachers and their pay then.

Many are contracted by hours don’t get paid for holidays and in fact are being asked to work for free .

You of course would do that wouldn’t you?

My daughter has worked all the way through on a rota basis 15 kids are easy to look after of course.

 

 

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Posted (edited)
Exactly every workplace is the same. I've worked through the whole lockdown. I had three days at home, when the government first announced the lockdown, and was then recalled by my employer, as essential staff, and have been going into work ever since. Of my team of six I'm the only one working as the rest have had reasons not to. Some of the reasons have been legit and speaking to them they'd like to return to work. Others are just taking advantage of the situation people are the same everywhere.

 

Interesting that someone else is in the same boat as me regarding their staff . 3 of us voluntarily kept working, whilst the other 7 were furloughed. They then un furloughed anyone who wasn’t in the most vulnerable group, but crucially didn’t ask for any evidence, so only another 2 came back. The next round of furlough they decided that only people that produced a government, hospital or doc shielding letter for them,or someone they live with, will be furloughed. None of the letters have been forthcoming, but loads of excuses have been. Gradually, they’ve all come back to work, despite (in their words) being “at risk”, and they’re all full of tales of how they’ve slipped through the net regarding shielding letters. They’re also all full of tales regarding the fun they’ve had during lockdown, the gardens they’ve tidied up, painting they’ve done, & time they’ve rediscovered the enjoyment of family life. Yes, we volunteered to work, but there’s a definite wedge between the 2 groups. It’s not driven by the volunteers thinking they’re better than the rest or “braver”, it’s just the attitude the furloughed workers have displayed since returning. Only 1 person is anal about the PPE/ social distancing rules at work, the others aren’t,clearly showing some just treated it as one long holiday.

 

 

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Edited by Lord Duckhunter

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You know nothing about teachers and their pay then.

Many are contracted by hours don’t get paid for holidays and in fact are being asked to work for free .

You of course would do that wouldn’t you?

My daughter has worked all the way through on a rota basis 15 kids are easy to look after of course.

 

 

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Loads of teachers aren't doing anything. One of my mates is a teacher at a private school and working bl*ody hard. Three other ones work at primary schools and are working one week on and three weeks off and are sat at home watching Netflix whilst they are off.

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Loads of teachers aren't doing anything. One of my mates is a teacher at a private school and working bl*ody hard. Three other ones work at primary schools and are working one week on and three weeks off and are sat at home watching Netflix whilst they are off.

 

He posted teachers sat on arse for 6 months so that’s not true even your 3 mates are not then

 

 

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He posted teachers sat on arse for 6 months so that’s not true even your 3 mates are not then

 

 

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One week of work a month? No wonder there's no rush to return!

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One week of work a month? No wonder there's no rush to return!

 

That’s not the reason as well you know

 

 

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That’s not the reason as well you know

 

 

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It absolutely is one of the reasons for quite a few.

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Why do you suppose the vast majority of nurseries are planning to return on June 1st? Maybe those who run nurseries care about their staff less? What do you reckon? Or could it be that theres a greater financial consideration that both early years workers and managers have that schools and teachers don't have? And the need to save jobs needs to be balanced along with sensible risk management.

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Why do you suppose the vast majority of nurseries are planning to return on June 1st? Maybe those who run nurseries care about their staff less? What do you reckon? Or could it be that theres a greater financial consideration that both early years workers and managers have that schools and teachers don't have? And the need to save jobs needs to be balanced along with sensible risk management.

 

It’s a risk and a balance at the centre of most teachers is child’s welfare...well ones I know.

I am sure same as nurseries are vast majority opening? On my local parish forums many won’t send their children.

 

 

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It’s a risk and a balance at the centre of most teachers is child’s welfare...well ones I know.

I am sure same as nurseries are vast majority opening? On my local parish forums many won’t send their children.

 

 

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Children numbers will be down but the vast majority of early years childcare settings will be opening if there is demand (assuming government advice doesn't change.) If child welfare is the primary concern then we already know that children benefit massively from school and that the risk from coronavirus is statistically tiny for younger children especially.

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Interesting that someone else is in the same boat as me regarding their staff . 3 of us voluntarily kept working, whilst the other 7 were furloughed. They then un furloughed anyone who wasn’t in the most vulnerable group, but crucially didn’t ask for any evidence, so only another 2 came back. The next round of furlough they decided that only people that produced a government, hospital or doc shielding letter for them,or someone they live with, will be furloughed. None of the letters have been forthcoming, but loads of excuses have been. Gradually, they’ve all come back to work, despite (in their words) being “at risk”, and they’re all full of tales of how they’ve slipped through the net regarding shielding letters. They’re also all full of tales regarding the fun they’ve had during lockdown, the gardens they’ve tidied up, painting they’ve done, & time they’ve rediscovered the enjoyment of family life. Yes, we volunteered to work, but there’s a definite wedge between the 2 groups. It’s not driven by the volunteers thinking they’re better than the rest or “braver”, it’s just the attitude the furloughed workers have displayed since returning. Only 1 person is anal about the PPE/ social distancing rules at work, the others aren’t,clearly showing some just treated it as one long holiday.

 

 

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Sounds like you have been cultivating a leftie work-shy culture in your organisation.

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Why do you suppose the vast majority of nurseries are planning to return on June 1st? Maybe those who run nurseries care about their staff less? What do you reckon? Or could it be that theres a greater financial consideration that both early years workers and managers have that schools and teachers don't have? And the need to save jobs needs to be balanced along with sensible risk management.
I thought you ran a day nursery or is that a different poster?

 

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I thought you ran a day nursery or is that a different poster?

 

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You could say I know what I'm talking about.

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You could say I know what I'm talking about.
So it is you. That's fair enough at least it gives context to your comments. I thought you were just being a ****...but given you're probably worrying about your business and are probably desperate to get children back into nurseries I'll cut you some slack.

 

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Posted (edited)
So it is you. That's fair enough at least it gives context to your comments. I thought you were just being a ****...but given you're probably worrying about your business and are probably desperate to get children back into nurseries I'll cut you some slack.

 

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It's not quite accurate to say I run a day nursery but it's similar. I'm desperate for children to get a proper early years education (including my own) and I'm keen for all staff to be as safe as possible whilst doing so. Many childminders have already shut permenently as it is and they won't be replaced any time soon. Its simple for teachers to refuse to come into school because there aren't really any wider knock on effects for them and there are for other businesses.

 

Quite aside from financial considerations, Southampton in particular has some horribly deprived areas and nurseries essentially act as the eyes and ears of social services. No doubt there are some young children in Southampton currently being abused physically and sexually at the moment and no one will know. Its simply not possible for early years to stay closed until September for that reason alone.

Edited by hypochondriac

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Interesting that someone else is in the same boat as me regarding their staff . 3 of us voluntarily kept working, whilst the other 7 were furloughed. They then un furloughed anyone who wasn’t in the most vulnerable group, but crucially didn’t ask for any evidence, so only another 2 came back. The next round of furlough they decided that only people that produced a government, hospital or doc shielding letter for them,or someone they live with, will be furloughed. None of the letters have been forthcoming, but loads of excuses have been. Gradually, they’ve all come back to work, despite (in their words) being “at risk”, and they’re all full of tales of how they’ve slipped through the net regarding shielding letters. They’re also all full of tales regarding the fun they’ve had during lockdown, the gardens they’ve tidied up, painting they’ve done, & time they’ve rediscovered the enjoyment of family life. Yes, we volunteered to work, but there’s a definite wedge between the 2 groups. It’s not driven by the volunteers thinking they’re better than the rest or “braver”, it’s just the attitude the furloughed workers have displayed since returning. Only 1 person is anal about the PPE/ social distancing rules at work, the others aren’t,clearly showing some just treated it as one long holiday.

 

 

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Find myself agreeing with a lot of what you say recently (which is mildly worrying tbh). I have no doubt whatsoever that a certain percentage of furloughees kinda quite like being furloughed (especially with it being nice out), see a 20% pay cut as a reasonable fee, and will happily employ any easily employed excuse ("I live with my grandad") to avoid the cessation of their furloughed status.

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It's not quite accurate to say I run a day nursery but it's similar. I'm desperate for children to get a proper early years education (including my own) and I'm keen for all staff to be as safe as possible whilst doing so. Many childminders have already shut permenently as it is and they won't be replaced any time soon. Its simple for teachers to refuse to come into school because there aren't really any wider knock on effects for them and there are for other businesses.

 

Quite aside from financial considerations, Southampton in particular has some horribly deprived areas and nurseries essentially act as the eyes and ears of social services. No doubt there are some young children in Southampton currently being abused physically and sexually at the moment and no one will know. Its simply not possible for early years to stay closed until September for that reason alone.

 

As someone directly involved with nurseries and schools, I agree with most of what you've written. I would add that all the teachers I know are keen to get back into the classroom scene, and have been working flat out on Zoom etc teaching remotely. They are an easy profession to knock, but do a huge amount of good, including being the eyes and ears of the social services!

I can also tell you that Headteachers have been working flat out to get school's through this time, and trying to plan for June 1st has been very difficult as the gov issue updates to regulations and 'advice' DAILY.

 

Oh to get back to talking about football!

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As someone directly involved with nurseries and schools, I agree with most of what you've written. I would add that all the teachers I know are keen to get back into the classroom scene, and have been working flat out on Zoom etc teaching remotely. They are an easy profession to knock, but do a huge amount of good, including being the eyes and ears of the social services!

I can also tell you that Headteachers have been working flat out to get school's through this time, and trying to plan for June 1st has been very difficult as the gov issue updates to regulations and 'advice' DAILY.

 

Oh to get back to talking about football!

Yes I'm aware of the advice. I think I've said previously it's certainly not all teachers or headteachers but there's definitely an element there who are happy staying at home where they perceive it to be safe with little appetite to leave since they are being paid regardless and there are quite a few who really aren't providing any extra work (unlike my private school friend who has been working flat out every day.) I haven't been a fan of the tone of some of the communication from some headteachers- essentially guilt tripping parents into not sending their children to school, dictating to parents what is going to happen and demanding that the government "make it safe" without outlining precisely what that means. Like you say though, that's not the attitude of all heads or teachers but it's worth pointing out that this element does exist along with the loons- mostly on twitter- droning on about the government being eager to kill children and dispose of half the country.

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Quite aside from financial considerations, Southampton in particular has some horribly deprived areas and nurseries essentially act as the eyes and ears of social services. No doubt there are some young children in Southampton currently being abused physically and sexually at the moment and no one will know. Its simply not possible for early years to stay closed until September for that reason alone.

 

Yes, there's quite some concern about the extremely low number of current referrals from schools and other early year providers.

 

Often it's these places where information about abuse is initially disclosed. Without these, as you say, there will be a lot of sickos getting away with all sorts of disgusting abuse.

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As someone directly involved with nurseries and schools, I agree with most of what you've written. I would add that all the teachers I know are keen to get back into the classroom scene, and have been working flat out on Zoom etc teaching remotely. They are an easy profession to knock, but do a huge amount of good, including being the eyes and ears of the social services!

I can also tell you that Headteachers have been working flat out to get school's through this time, and trying to plan for June 1st has been very difficult as the gov issue updates to regulations and 'advice' DAILY.

 

Oh to get back to talking about football!

 

Agree with this. Ignore the media headlines about unions and militant teachers, most of them want to get back to proper work.

 

My partner works in a special needs school and they have to carry out a risk assessment for each individual child. Then they have to ring every parent. It's taking absolutely ages. Once that's done they have to implement it all. It's not a case of reopening the school and rocking up on 1st June to see what happens!

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Does baffle me seeing videos of people queuing for hours in their cars for a Mcdonalds.

 

If you see a queue, join it!

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Well you are ignoring the Government own slides so we are even.

You didn’t answer about Kawasaki disease a risk or not?

Pray tell me how many kids have died from this Kawasaki disease this year then. Less than last year

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American scientists saying that introducing their lockdown a week earlier would have saved approximately 36000 deaths.

 

Obviously there's different circumstances in each country but that's just over a third of their current total, so potentially we could be looking at 10000 less here if we'd introduced ours a week before.

 

I wonder what difference that would have made here? The Cheltenham festival and other events going ahead that weekend may have made a pretty big difference considering the high rate of transmission at the time.

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If you consider the context, would you say a ~£50 replica shirt with a big advert for Gao's money laundering vehicle on the front is also tacky? As ever, if other people want to mug themselves off paying for the prestige of our glorious and historic football club's crest on random crap then I'm all for it.

 

Someone on a budget needing hand sanitiser or loo roll probably isn't going to be relying on the Southampton FC online shop.

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American scientists saying that introducing their lockdown a week earlier would have saved approximately 36000 deaths.

 

Obviously there's different circumstances in each country but that's just over a third of their current total, so potentially we could be looking at 10000 less here if we'd introduced ours a week before.

 

I wonder what difference that would have made here? The Cheltenham festival and other events going ahead that weekend may have made a pretty big difference considering the high rate of transmission at the time.

 

I wonder if the public acceptance would have been different if they had gone earlier. Would the Scousers have quietly accepted their match with Athletico being cancelled?

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Posted (edited)

The latest statistics suggest that someone under the age of 19 with no existing pre-conditions in the UK faces the following fatality risks compared to Covid19:

 

....210 times as likely to be killed in a car accident (with a pre-esiting condition it's still 69 times as likely)

 

If under the age of 40 (basically all footballers), WITH pre-existing conditions:

 

....You are about 50% more likely to die by being attacked by a dog or being struck by lightning in the UK.

 

Under-40s with NO pre-exiting conditions:

 

....about twice as likely to die from a discharged firework and 5 times as likely to die from being struck by lightning.

 

Given these numbers, I think we can probably re-open the academy and possibly the wider club for all players. But we should probably bus the players into Staplewood rather than allow them to drive themselves, hire a metereologist to keep an eye out for thunderstorms and also ensure we have a licenced dog handler on hand at all times. We should also cancel any club celebrations of Guy Fawkes night and New Years Eve until further notice, in order to guarantee their safety.

Edited by SaintBobby

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