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The Sunday Times - Southampton put up for sale at £250m


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16 minutes ago, Nolan said:

https://www.sunderlandecho.com/sport/football/newcastle-united/nufc-linked-billionaire-joe-dagrosa-antithesis-mike-ashley-and-heres-why-806338

“In our case we want to build the club from the ground up, produce home-grown players and eventually keep a lot of that talent in Bordeaux.

“We have got to develop young talent, like a fine wine and wait for the right vintage. This is with a view to having a very strong squad in two, three, four years time.”

This guy seems a legit football visionary 👍

He reminds me of Simon Clifford.

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10 minutes ago, EBS1980 said:

wouldn't put it past the club to link details of one interested party to the press, while they are actually working with another.

As we have been told we do not do any of our business in the media so i fully expect us to pull out of this deal now

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3 hours ago, Turkish said:

If he hadn't said anything about respecting a clubs history, just buying us and making us part of a poor mans City Football Group then everyone would be outraged that he has no respect for our history.

 

I just wish these buyers didn't say anything at all. Keep your gob shut until the deal is done. 

Don't tell me which new players you are buying. Don't tell me you grew up wearing Phil Boyer pyjamas. Just do the deal out quietly and without leaking a load of nonsense through the press. Once the deal is done then present your plans more publicly. 

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33 minutes ago, Convict Colony said:

Saw crook say that there was another party but wouldnt mention who.....

Personally saw that as him having no idea.

Crook pretends he knows everything.

All his ”I’ve been told...” stories on talksport unsurprisingly come after actual journalists have just reported them.

I’d respect him more if he just credited where the news came from rather than pretend.

Edited by SuperSAINT
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9 minutes ago, SuperSAINT said:

Crook pretends he knows everything.

All his ”I’ve been told...” stories on talksport unsurprisingly come after actual journalists have just reported them.

I’d respect him more if he just credited where the news came from rather than pretend.

My all time favourite Crook moment was when he tweeted that he understood we had no interest in Charlie Austin, less than 24 hours later he was announced as having signed. He also likes to block people on twitter who mention this. He's clueless. 

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20 minutes ago, Turkish said:

My all time favourite Crook moment was when he tweeted that he understood we had no interest in Charlie Austin, less than 24 hours later he was announced as having signed. He also likes to block people on twitter who mention this. He's clueless. 

All of this :D 

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After DaGrosa sold Bordeaux he was looking to buy Roma.

This was the message sent to Roma fans by Bordeaux fans:

Roman friends, do not make the same mistake as Bordeaux with Da Grosa.
 This man and his gang (Hugo Varela) are crooks, they emptied the Bordeaux coffers and left like thieves
 (more than 50 M € deficit in 1 year) .DA GROSA OUT! ESPECIALLY DON'T SELL TO DA GROSA !
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7 minutes ago, ecuk268 said:

After DaGrosa sold Bordeaux he was looking to buy Roma.

This was the message sent to Roma fans by Bordeaux fans:


Roman friends, do not make the same mistake as Bordeaux with Da Grosa.
 This man and his gang (Hugo Varela) are crooks, they emptied the Bordeaux coffers and left like thieves
 (more than 50 M € deficit in 1 year) .DA GROSA OUT! ESPECIALLY DON'T SELL TO DA GROSA !

Did they send it in English?* ;) 

*MLG Notes:

- I know it probably wasn't.

- It was probably sent in Italian.  Possibly French.

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Appear to be asset strippers on the basis of the previous post.  Would hate us to go the same route as Blackpool.  Problem is that Gao just wants out and will sell to anyone of the price is acceptable.  Just hope that there is some truth in the rumour of other bidders

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1 hour ago, kwsaint said:

Appear to be asset strippers on the basis of the previous post.  Would hate us to go the same route as Blackpool.  Problem is that Gao just wants out and will sell to anyone of the price is acceptable.  Just hope that there is some truth in the rumour of other bidders

Could Katharina block any deal with her 20% share?

Edited by trousers
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11 minutes ago, johnnyboy said:

Would DaGrosa pass the fit and proper owners test ?

Pablo Escobar could probably pass it*.

*MLG Notes - I know he’s dead’s 

Edited by SuperSAINT
MLG note added
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11 hours ago, Convict Colony said:

From April 2020 - Forbes https://www.forbes.com/sites/robertkidd/2020/04/30/us-investor-plans-premier-league-club-takeover-to-recreate-city-football-group/#24d139407b1a

“Ultimately, we want to build a platform that will lend itself to going public at some point,” he said.

 

Does he mean a share flotation ? Didn't we try that under Rupert the Share ?

 

Look how that ended.

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1 hour ago, djharvey said:

I'd be surprised if she didn't have some sort of say/veto!

The question is would she care enough to block a move that was bad for the clubs long term future? She didn't seem to mind selling to Gao. What would be different this time? 

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29 minutes ago, Saint J 77 said:

The question is would she care enough to block a move that was bad for the clubs long term future? She didn't seem to mind selling to Gao. What would be different this time? 

I guess it could pan out either way. She might regret selling to Goa and resolve not to make a similar mistake again. 

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6 hours ago, kwsaint said:

Appear to be asset strippers on the basis of the previous post.  Would hate us to go the same route as Blackpool.  Problem is that Gao just wants out and will sell to anyone of the price is acceptable.  Just hope that there is some truth in the rumour of other bidders

That's alright then, we don't have any assets to be stripped

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1 hour ago, trousers said:

I guess it could pan out either way. She might regret selling to Goa and resolve not to make a similar mistake again. 

It would surprise me if Gao had agreed to buy 80% of the club without insisting on a drag along in the event that he wanted to sell.

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7 hours ago, kwsaint said:

Appear to be asset strippers on the basis of the previous post.  Would hate us to go the same route as Blackpool.  Problem is that Gao just wants out and will sell to anyone of the price is acceptable.  Just hope that there is some truth in the rumour of other bidders

Who says Gao just wants out??  All I’ve seen is a bunch of smoke and those journalists closest to the club have denied he’s looking to sell.

I find the attitude to Gao on here bewildering tbh...  someone made a ridiculous statement that they’d rather have an American in charge, which is completely xenophobic, and people desperate for him to go.  He has been quiet about his plans for the club,  but the club is in a better place than when he took over and he deserves some credit for that.  He certainly seems infinitely better than this guy who has already owned a football club and was hated by the fans there

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4 hours ago, djharvey said:

I'd be surprised if she didn't have some sort of say/veto!

a 20% shareholder can block a company sale, ie the whole caboodle, so long as it is written into the shareholder agreement, but I'm not sure a 20% shareholder can prevent a 80% shareholder from selling their 80% share to whoever they choose.

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I am not a Gao fan because |I hoped for an owner who would invesat and  there is no liklihood of that. But at least he is better than owners who uninvest ie the asset strippers. So we need to be careful what we wish for, there's a lot of sharks around. I take the point we are in a better position than when he took over and the Board and manager know the situation and appear to be working well within it. Perhaps its best not to rock the boat. 

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9 hours ago, Barsiem said:

Who says Gao just wants out??  All I’ve seen is a bunch of smoke and those journalists closest to the club have denied he’s looking to sell.

I find the attitude to Gao on here bewildering tbh...  someone made a ridiculous statement that they’d rather have an American in charge, which is completely xenophobic, and people desperate for him to go.  He has been quiet about his plans for the club,  but the club is in a better place than when he took over and he deserves some credit for that.  He certainly seems infinitely better than this guy who has already owned a football club and was hated by the fans there

Better place? Football wise, yes, but that’s transitory and is largely down to Ralph being better than Hughes and nothing more or less than that. 
 

We borrowed £80m before this season which is more than we’ve ever borrowed for cash flow purposes in the past and as for “keeping his plans quiet” - he doesn’t have a plan.

I agree that this newly mentioned chap also seems undesirable.

Edited by benjii
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44 minutes ago, benjii said:

Better place? Football wise, yes, but that’s transitory and is largely down to Ralph being better than Hughes and nothing more or less than that. 
 

We borrowed £80m before this season which is more than we’ve ever borrowed for cash flow purposes in the past and as for “keeping his plans quiet” - he doesn’t have a plan.

I agree that this newly mentioned chap also seems undesirable.

And who hired Ralph? Who sacked Hughes? Who sacked the clowns who hired Hughes in the first place? He doesn't have a plan? He told you that did he? Because whatever non-plan we have now is a hell of a lot better than the plan we had 3 years ago.

Let's be honest here, Gao wouldn't get half the sh!t he gets if it wasn't for his nationality, to the point that some would rather have an American fraud as owner instead.

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10 hours ago, Chez said:

a 20% shareholder can block a company sale, ie the whole caboodle, so long as it is written into the shareholder agreement, but I'm not sure a 20% shareholder can prevent a 80% shareholder from selling their 80% share to whoever they choose.

Typically the Shareholder agreement will give the other shareholders first option to buy the sellers shares and usually some sort of formula is written into to it on how to value it. If the option isn’t taken then they can sell to who ever they like. Well that’s what’s written into my business

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49 minutes ago, Cartman said:

Let's be honest here, Gao wouldn't get half the sh!t he gets if it wasn't for his nationality, to the point that some would rather have an American fraud as owner instead.

I'm not so sure Gao is about nationality, but about him not having any money.  Kat used to invest cash into the club, and when she sold up it was presented as something that would help the club grow and have a future. 

It quickly became clear that Gao can't provide that, and never could.  He stretched himself as he hoped the club would grow in value and that hasn't happened. (In my opinion)

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1 hour ago, Cartman said:

And who hired Ralph? Who sacked Hughes? Who sacked the clowns who hired Hughes in the first place? He doesn't have a plan? He told you that did he? Because whatever non-plan we have now is a hell of a lot better than the plan we had 3 years ago.

Let's be honest here, Gao wouldn't get half the sh!t he gets if it wasn't for his nationality, to the point that some would rather have an American fraud as owner instead.

Following that logic, do you think Gao would be disliked if he was putting money in and was vocal about his plans to fans? I mean liebherr was a foreigner and no one had a problem with him. What if he had been exactly the same but a Chinaman? 

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1 hour ago, Cartman said:

And who hired Ralph? Who sacked Hughes? Who sacked the clowns who hired Hughes in the first place? He doesn't have a plan? He told you that did he? Because whatever non-plan we have now is a hell of a lot better than the plan we had 3 years ago.

Let's be honest here, Gao wouldn't get half the sh!t he gets if it wasn't for his nationality, to the point that some would rather have an American fraud as owner instead.

I wrote rubbish ignore

Edited by Convict Colony
stupid
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1 hour ago, Cartman said:

And who hired Ralph? Who sacked Hughes? Who sacked the clowns who hired Hughes in the first place? He doesn't have a plan? He told you that did he? Because whatever non-plan we have now is a hell of a lot better than the plan we had 3 years ago.

Let's be honest here, Gao wouldn't get half the sh!t he gets if it wasn't for his nationality, to the point that some would rather have an American fraud as owner instead.

More racial stereotyping crap.

People don't like Gao because he is a terrible owner, simple as that. No one knows his intentions. If he was English, American, Swedish, Dutch and his approach was the same, he wouldn't be liked. It doesn't matter what his nationality is, but he has been a terrible owner.

In answer to your previous questions - that would have been Kruger, Reed and now Semmens. As mentioned many a time before he has no real involvement in the club, so he's all pretty much nondescript and is offering us nothing.

Edited by S-Clarke
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I think the underlying issue is where Gao got, or borrowed the money to buy into Saints, how he's servicing it and dealing with possible growing difficulty moving money in and out of China. I suspect the sponsorship deal fell for the last if these reasons.

Martin Semmens has always insisted he doesn't know that Gao wants out. Also, that a big plus is he leaves Semmens, Steele and co to run the club and the non-interference is important. We have seen big positive changes since Krueger left.

Gao doesn't have money to put into Saints, but I don't think there's evidence he's taking out. We are now hopefully on the up, which could boost the value of his investment. It's just a question of whether, for some reason, needs to get out.

 

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https://soccer.nbcsports.com/2020/04/21/joseph-dagrosa-interview-premier-league-la-liga-newcastle-bordeaux-getafe-mls/

 

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/09/07/football/joseph-dagrosa-football-investment-premier-league-spt-intl-cmd/index.html

 

He doesn't sound like a asset-stripper.

 

Also seems like things were bad behind the scenes at Bordeaux anyway, and they were bad off the field. 

https://www.sportbusiness.com/news/us-investment-firm-gacp-sports-sells-stake-in-girondins-de-bordeaux/

 

He's in talks with two Premier League clubs. I wonder who the other is.

Edited by Pamplemousse
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8 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

As mentioned many a time before he has no real involvement in the club, so he's all pretty much nondescript and is offering us nothing.

In some ways, having no real involvement and leaving it to Semmens and co is offering benefit.

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1 hour ago, Cartman said:

And who hired Ralph? Who sacked Hughes? Who sacked the clowns who hired Hughes in the first place? He doesn't have a plan? He told you that did he? Because whatever non-plan we have now is a hell of a lot better than the plan we had 3 years ago.

Let's be honest here, Gao wouldn't get half the sh!t he gets if it wasn't for his nationality, to the point that some would rather have an American fraud as owner instead.

 

Tell that to Mike Ashley. English and still a c*nt. The Glazers at Utd, American but not exactly beloved.

 

Is it possible to dislike people who buy football clubs with borrowed finance and invest/contribute nothing of any significant value? Financial or otherwise? 

 

If the owner isn't going to contribute meaningfully you would at least hope it would be somebody who shares the fans affinity with the club. How many times has our owner even made the trip to watch a game? How much effort has he made to engage with the fanbase? Frankly I don't care about their nationality/ethnicity/gender/sexuality or even their favourite flavour of m&ms (the answer is crispy by the way). Could we have a worse only? Probably, just look at SISU for the alternative reality saints. Could we quite easily have it better? Absolutely! 

 

Playing the 'racism' card is poor here. The forum probably has it's share of narrow minded helmets much as anywhere but I think you're wide of the mark here.

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33 minutes ago, Shroppie said:

In some ways, having no real involvement and leaving it to Semmens and co is offering benefit.

Exactly. S-Clarke in particular can be particularly hysterical about Gao. He even hilariously suggested the other day he was an horrific owner.

Gao has a plan. Its to grow slowly in a self sustaining way. It may not be exciting, it may not mean signing players to deals we cannot afford,  you may not even like it, but that is the plan.

For me, the best part of this is he the steps back and lets the guys whose job it is to make this happen, do exactly that. It does though mean the success or failure falls on the people implementing it. It went sour under Les and Ross and Gao got rid. We are very lucky to have Ralph, and it would appear Semmens, and I am personally hopeful for the future.

Bournemouth spent money they didn't have on big money players and got it wrong. They are now, or certainly were, absolutely fucked. In fairness, they got some decent money for a lot of their squad, so it might not be as bad as it was, but we wont be seeing them again for a long time. Perhaps only when accompanied by rattling buckets again.

Gao either wont, or more likely cant, invest any money. This doesn't make him a bad owner, just not a rich one. This might of course change, but as of now, he does not appear to be taking money from the club.

It may be dull, he may be bland, but it could be loads loads worse then we currently have it.

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There's reason why the club's heavily rumoured to be for sale:

There is no more money coming from China to the premier League.

The football won't even be shown on TV there.

Chinese money is worth a lot less than it was when Gao had his other business.

 

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1 hour ago, RedFear said:

Exactly. S-Clarke in particular can be particularly hysterical about Gao. He even hilariously suggested the other day he was an horrific owner.

Gao has a plan. Its to grow slowly in a self sustaining way. It may not be exciting, it may not mean signing players to deals we cannot afford,  you may not even like it, but that is the plan.

For me, the best part of this is he the steps back and lets the guys whose job it is to make this happen, do exactly that. It does though mean the success or failure falls on the people implementing it. It went sour under Les and Ross and Gao got rid. We are very lucky to have Ralph, and it would appear Semmens, and I am personally hopeful for the future.

Bournemouth spent money they didn't have on big money players and got it wrong. They are now, or certainly were, absolutely fucked. In fairness, they got some decent money for a lot of their squad, so it might not be as bad as it was, but we wont be seeing them again for a long time. Perhaps only when accompanied by rattling buckets again.

Gao either wont, or more likely cant, invest any money. This doesn't make him a bad owner, just not a rich one. This might of course change, but as of now, he does not appear to be taking money from the club.

It may be dull, he may be bland, but it could be loads loads worse then we currently have it.

Why is it hilarious to suggest he is an horrific owner? He's amongst the worst in the PL.

We survive because of the PL income, we survive because we have players to sell and reinvest. That is our model. That model is driven because we have an owner who will not contribute or invest into us. Without PL income we would be in the financial pits.

The strategy we have is driven by Martin Seemens/Ralph et co, because it's clear they have little money to play with. I understand the views that in some ways Gao being 'silent' can be a positive, but as a fan base you still need to feel the owner is engaged to some level.

Things are going 'well' on the field at the moment, but that is purely in spite of Gao. We have struck lucky with Ralph, but it feels like he is hamstrung and we're never going to see his full potential as a manager because our owner won't invest. Don't get me wrong, I'm not talking 100m/200m - but just having the flexibility to buy a couple of players without needing to work out who you can sell first - that would be a start.

We were told his ownership would take us to the next level and allow additional investment, we now have absolutely no pot to piss in. Taking secured loans out left right and centre. The model to sell before you buy is all well and good, but this relies on us being in the PL. Full stop. KL is as guilty as well, it would be nice to have her engagement on it as well, it feels like she's let us down a little.

He has made no effort to integrate with the fans, he has made no effort to share his ambitions, views or intentions with us - absolutely zero effort. No one knows what he's here for. Why should we give him the time of day? When you add together the fact he's made little or not effort with the fan base and we seemingly have no pot to piss in, there's no doubt there's ill feeling about him.

This 'new' lot sound like someone we need to avoid as well, but that does that make me anti-American? No, it makes me someone who is trying to want the best for the club he supports and it's clear to me at the moment that Gao isn't providing what is best for Southampton football club.

Edited by S-Clarke
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6 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

Why is it hilarious to suggest he is an horrific owner? He's amongst the worst in the PL.

We survive because of the PL income, we survive because we have players to sell and reinvest. That is our model. That model is driven because we have an owner who will not contribute or invest into us. Without PL income we would be in the financial pits.

The strategy we have is driven by Martin Seemens/Ralph et co. Gao has had no input in it. I understand the views that in some ways this can be a positive, but as a fan base you still need to feel the owner is engaged to some level.

Things are going 'well' on the field at the moment, but that is purely in spite of Gao. We have struck lucky with Ralph, but it feels like he is hamstrung and we're never going to see his full potential as a manager because our owner won't invest. Don't get me wrong, I'm not talking 100m/200m - but just having the flexibility to buy a couple of players without needing to work out who you can sell first - that would be a start.

We were told his ownership would take us to the next level and allow additional investment, we now have absolutely no pot to piss in. Taking secured loans out left right and centre. The model to sell before you buy is all well and good, but the fact we cannot even make a squad addition before selling is a poor show for a PL club.

He has made no effort to integrate with the fans, he has made no effort to share his ambitions, views or intentions with us - absolutely zero effort. No one knows what he's here for. Why should we give him the time of day? When you add together the fact he's made little or not effort with the fan base and we seemingly have no pot to piss in, there's no doubt there's ill feeling about him.

This 'new' lot sound like someone we need to avoid as well, but that does that make me anti-American? No, it makes me someone who is trying to want the best for the club he supports and it's clear to me at the moment that Gao isn't providing what is best for Southampton football club.

What you're describing is the difference between normal businesses and football/sport. As a business we are operating normally. We generate income and spend it wisely, hopefully with a profit, or if we lose annually it does not bankrupt us as previous profits are merely reduced and cash flow protected.

As a football business we do not have an owner who wants to spunk a load of money which he will never get back. This does not on its own make him bad owner and definitely not an horrific one. 

We all would love a benefactor - one who does not loan against the club or wants his/her money back at any time but those people are few and far between. 

Until this happens I'm content with the current operational management and how they act and how they communicate. As a business I am confident of sustainability. As a football team (specifically team and not business) I am equally confident with those in placd to sustain our premier league status. 

 

This does not mean I would not welcome more investment in the team but I do believe that Semmens and Co. are doing everything they can to get the best players for Ralph.

Until we get that benefactor I am happy with the status quo. 

 

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