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'B' Team to replace U23's?


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52 minutes ago, Nordic Saint said:

Our U21s have deteriorated in the 4 years we've been in the EFL Trophy so it obviously isn't helping them at all. I don't see any players better prepared for the Premier League. As for 'who cares if they win', we all will if we get drawn against Portsmouth, which with so few teams in the southern section's group draw is inevitably going to happen.  Developing a losing mentality, like developing a winning one, can become a habit. Players go out there half expecting to lose.

Academy teams have always played their peers and it hasn't done them any harm in the past. If the coaches feel an U21 player is ready to face lower league first teams, and a lot of them clearly aren't, they can always give him a loan spell. That would be far better and more realistic preparation as the 1 or 2 U21s who might break into our first team one day will be surrounded by older players, not in a team of teenagers getting thrashed by a team of older men. That is not 'competitive football': it's just demoralising.

I thought they kept us away from Portsmouth in the group draw on purpose, probably because of police advice. Seeing as we never qualify from the group stages it's unlikely we'll play them.

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2 hours ago, Nordic Saint said:

Our U21s have deteriorated in the 4 years we've been in the EFL Trophy so it obviously isn't helping them at all. I don't see any players better prepared for the Premier League. As for 'who cares if they win', we all will if we get drawn against Portsmouth, which with so few teams in the southern section's group draw is inevitably going to happen.  Developing a losing mentality, like developing a winning one, can become a habit. Players go out there half expecting to lose.

Academy teams have always played their peers and it hasn't done them any harm in the past. If the coaches feel an U21 player is ready to face lower league first teams, and a lot of them clearly aren't, they can always give him a loan spell. That would be far better and more realistic preparation as the 1 or 2 U21s who might break into our first team one day will be surrounded by older players, not in a team of teenagers getting thrashed by a team of older men. That is not 'competitive football': it's just demoralising.

I get all that, but giving these lads loan's away just weakens the group even more, meaning they have to take the best lads from the u18's weakening them, etc. 

U23 football is great for technical development, but not the hustle and bustle of competition. Players need that exposure, and for me it's better that they stay here and get a balance of coaching, u23 football, and as much competitive football as possible. 

Sure, winning is important, but these kids are here to develop first and foremost. 

Edited by egg
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15 hours ago, Nordic Saint said:

Our U21s have deteriorated in the 4 years we've been in the EFL Trophy so it obviously isn't helping them at all. I don't see any players better prepared for the Premier League. As for 'who cares if they win', we all will if we get drawn against Portsmouth, which with so few teams in the southern section's group draw is inevitably going to happen.  Developing a losing mentality, like developing a winning one, can become a habit. Players go out there half expecting to lose.

Academy teams have always played their peers and it hasn't done them any harm in the past. If the coaches feel an U21 player is ready to face lower league first teams, and a lot of them clearly aren't, they can always give him a loan spell. That would be far better and more realistic preparation as the 1 or 2 U21s who might break into our first team one day will be surrounded by older players, not in a team of teenagers getting thrashed by a team of older men. That is not 'competitive football': it's just demoralising.

You ignored the fact that the U21s team do not get regularly thrashed in this competition, you are basing your nonsense views on one result (i.e. the latest game). We won't get drawn against Pompey, we are kept apart in group games, and given we don't qualify for knock-out we wouldn't get them in the knock out stages either. If we did its quite likely that we would bolster our team with more senior players as we are allowed to do. The league teams who play in this tournament also tend to play quite a lot of non-first choice players, rather than their full strength teams, at least in the group stages.

A major point of renaming the u23s to the B Team is to enable more matches like this, i.e. against non-Academy opposition, to withdraw the team in future from the EFL Trophy would be totally against what Saints are trying to do. 

Edited by VectisSaint
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  • 2 weeks later...

They won! Only watched the last 15 mins or so and didnt see the trialist, so guess he wasn't that good?

Good to see Smallbone back, and Kegs looks a decent prospect. Simeu pretty good, a bit unsure about the left back. 

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10 hours ago, SuperSAINT said:

B team won tonight 0-1 vs Reading.

Ballard scored the goal.

Cheers. Forgot they were playing. No Smallbone so presumably he's either injured again or back with the first team squad. Ditto Small, although I think he was injured. 

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34 minutes ago, egg said:

Cheers. Forgot they were playing. No Smallbone so presumably he's either injured again or back with the first team squad. Ditto Small, although I think he was injured. 

Deserved win going by the stats.

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1 minute ago, SuperSAINT said:

Deserved win going by the stats.

Yep, battered them by the looks of it. Do you know if they're playing a back 3? Line up suggests Olufunwa RB but article says someone else is so can can only guess it's him Simeu and Lancashire at CB. 

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Just now, egg said:

Yep, battered them by the looks of it. Do you know if they're playing a back 3? Line up suggests Olufunwa RB but article says someone else is so can can only guess it's him Simeu and Lancashire at CB. 

Think it was a back 3.

Olufunwa Simeu Lancashire as the 3.

Taiwo & Carson as wingbacks.

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5 hours ago, SuperSAINT said:

Think it was a back 3.

Olufunwa Simeu Lancashire as the 3.

Taiwo & Carson as wingbacks.

They’ve been playing with those 3 at the back since the results started to turn. I think the combo of the 3 cover for each of their individual deficiencies. They looked relatively comfortable in the game vs Wolves. Also on that, weird that often other teams stream their home matches for the B/u23 team unless they are at the main stadium, whereas we never seem to anymore. 

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5 hours ago, SuperSAINT said:

Think it was a back 3.

Olufunwa Simeu Lancashire as the 3.

Taiwo & Carson as wingbacks.

 

9 minutes ago, daldridge7 said:

They’ve been playing with those 3 at the back since the results started to turn. I think the combo of the 3 cover for each of their individual deficiencies. They looked relatively comfortable in the game vs Wolves. Also on that, weird that often other teams stream their home matches for the B/u23 team unless they are at the main stadium, whereas we never seem to anymore. 

Thanks both.

I'm glad that someone has hade the balls/sense to ditch Ralph's playbook in favour of a system that suits the players.

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30 minutes ago, egg said:

 

Thanks both.

I'm glad that someone has hade the balls/sense to ditch Ralph's playbook in favour of a system that suits the players.

Let’s hope it continues.

Ballard seemingly doing very well as a central striker.

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On 26/10/2021 at 13:54, egg said:

 

Thanks both.

I'm glad that someone has hade the balls/sense to ditch Ralph's playbook in favour of a system that suits the players.

Tbf I think he’s said before there is different formations as part of the playbook with the 4-2-2-2 being the primary one he uses. Although he has switched to the five a few times this season with Romeu moving in to cb a few times mid game and the Chelsea game was 3/5. Previous season is completely agree with you. 

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1 hour ago, daldridge7 said:

Tbf I think he’s said before there is different formations as part of the playbook with the 4-2-2-2 being the primary one he uses. Although he has switched to the five a few times this season with Romeu moving in to cb a few times mid game and the Chelsea game was 3/5. Previous season is completely agree with you. 

Never really understood the concept of having a playbook. It's not as though any successful side will stick rigidly to one system. Managers have to adapt, react and change systems to suit different challenges resulting in them using a multitude of systems. Unless Ralph's playbook teaches a unique system that he invented and no other coaches use, what is the point of it? All smacks of self indulgence if I'm honest.

Edited by Teddeer
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1 minute ago, The Cat said:

Great result. Just shows that we are decent at most age groups when we don't have a silly number of academy players injured.

Villa forum reckons that's the youngest team they've had out all season. Some players seem to be covering injuries in the first team squad, so not dissimilar to us last season. 

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On 24/09/2021 at 16:30, Nordic Saint said:

There was a TV interview regarding Brentord's policy and they said it was a waste of time and money having an academy in London as the big clubs hoovered up all the talent. Even if our own academy currently appears to be a waste of money, we are doing well taking players like Livramento, Broja and Small from other clubs' academies. Maybe that is the way forward. Chelsea's academy for example is always going to have much more talent than ours.  

The average price of an average Prem. player today is probably in the range of  £10-15 million, and the better ones cost much more.

Not every teenager who goes through Prem. Academies will become even good enough to play in L1 /L2 clubs.

Last time I checked over 30 players ( former Saints Academy graduates) had played in L1/L2, whilst others may be playing local league football

or have even drifted out of the game altogether.  Those who get to stay, may get a Prem. debut, but little more before moving on, whilst even the 

best may be stuck at the club " understudying " an international  or regular first-choice player whilst getting older, but not more experienced.

 

The groups that came through Saints Academy between 2006-2011  yielded transfer fees of over £15 million (Saints record buy was still only....£6 million).

whereas those who left the club between 2012-2018  moved onto "bigger cubs" and brought in something..... in excess of £80 million.

Whilst it's a shame that they left, their talents bloomed in top clubs and many went onto play at international level. 

The most recent group to leave included; Matt Targett, Jake Hesketh, Callum Slattery, Sam McQueen and Josh Sims - all  played some Prem. games

but never made it past the regular first teamers ..whilst the "survivors from that generation are; James Ward-Prowse and Jack Stephens who have

contributed  over 400 Prem. games between them, and made a huge saving - considering they cost nothing to sign.

RESULT: the cost of Academies is not exorbitant when you consider those who succeed at the highest level,  and the eventual income from sales, 

(which in many cases helps the club's overall economy) and are vital for the majority of Prem. sides who do not rely on a "sugar-daddy" 

to spend  £100 million on  buying new players every season.  

 

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2 hours ago, david in sweden said:

 

The most recent group to leave included; Matt Targett, Jake Hesketh, Callum Slattery, Sam McQueen and Josh Sims - all  played some Prem. games

 

Wasn't aware that Sam McQueen had left. Where did you hear this? 

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12 hours ago, VectisSaint said:

Wasn't aware that Sam McQueen had left. Where did you hear this? 

More correctly I understood at his contract ran out in the summer, but that he had been given " 6 months extra.... to help regain fitness " .(?)

As he has not appeared in any B team's so far,  I am assuming that (sadly) he is not part of Ralph's future planning .

Great pity as I always thought he was a very good prospect. 

 

12 hours ago, VectisSaint said:

 

 

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2 hours ago, david in sweden said:

More correctly I understood at his contract ran out in the summer, but that he had been given " 6 months extra.... to help regain fitness " .(?)

As he has not appeared in any B team's so far,  I am assuming that (sadly) he is not part of Ralph's future planning .

Great pity as I always thought he was a very good prospect. 

 

 

Quite, we'll see what occurs in January, but it doesn't look too promising. He had all the makings of a decent, if not spectacular player, but fate has not dealt him a kind hand. 

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1 minute ago, Le Timmier said:

Anyone know how much the upturn in form is linked to Smallbone's return to fitness?

Think it may be the ditching of 4222 and move to a back 3 / 5 (whichever way it is viewed) as well as senior players dropping into the u23s like Smallbone, Tella and Valery?

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1 minute ago, Saint-Reece said:

Think it may be the ditching of 4222 and move to a back 3 / 5 (whichever way it is viewed) as well as senior players dropping into the u23s like Smallbone, Tella and Valery?

I think that's right, at least the shift to a back 3. 

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7 minutes ago, Le Timmier said:

Anyone know how much the upturn in form is linked to Smallbone's return to fitness?

It’s a bit of everything.  Almost full strength now.  4 clean sheets in a row.

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22 minutes ago, egg said:

5-0 now. Both wing backs have scored and all of the back 3 are youngsters Inc Valery, Lancashire on the bench. Encouraging. 

Screenshot_2021-11-05-13-47-04-05_40deb401b9ffe8e1df2f1cc5ba480b12.jpg

Payne & Small AKA Cafu & Roberto Carlos 

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1 hour ago, egg said:

5-0 now. Both wing backs have scored and all of the back 3 are youngsters Inc Valery, Lancashire on the bench. Encouraging. 

Screenshot_2021-11-05-13-47-04-05_40deb401b9ffe8e1df2f1cc5ba480b12.jpg

The CF invented the Spitfire here in Southampton didn't he?

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3 hours ago, SuperSAINT said:

It’s a bit of everything.  Almost full strength now.  4 clean sheets in a row.

Can't be true. I thought the Academy was a total shambles and everyone involved needs sacking or something?

Anyway, we're now pushing for the playoffs. Amazing what happens when we get a load of injured players back.

Screenshot_20211105-173859.jpg

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Looks to be a combination of things to me

1) throwing out the 4222 playbook

2) buying in a couple of quality youngsters from other Prem teams

3) promoting a few youngsters who are talented enough and ready for the step up

4) playing a few older players with experience

Well done the club for finally sorting it - did take far too long though. Hope they can challenge for a place in the top league 

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18 hours ago, Hodgey said:

Looks to be a combination of things to me

1) throwing out the 4222 playbook

2) buying in a couple of quality youngsters from other Prem teams

3) promoting a few youngsters who are talented enough and ready for the step up

4) playing a few older players with experience

Well done the club for finally sorting it - did take far too long though. Hope they can challenge for a place in the top league 

The playbook isn’t just the 4-2-2-2 as far as I am aware. The 4-2-2-2 is just Ralph’s preferred formation.

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2 hours ago, daldridge7 said:

The playbook isn’t just the 4-2-2-2 as far as I am aware. The 4-2-2-2 is just Ralph’s preferred formation.

Correct. It’s still play book stuff we’re doing. 

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22 hours ago, Hodgey said:

Looks to be a combination of things to me

1) throwing out the 4222 playbook

The playbook is what players should do in different roles. Those roles can be moved between formations and so the playbook is still being used and has not been 'thrown out''.

Edited by Matthew Le God
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