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Burnley vs Saints — Build-up


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Can't believe I'm saying this but I'd like to see Vestergaard come in for this one. Even though he's slow, he generally reads the game a lot better than Stephens and is actually better at passing as well. There's an argument to be had surrounding the keeper but I think McCarthy is just about the least shit out of the 3. You'd argue that this is the right game to play a higher line, as opposed to against Spurs. 

McCarthy, KWP, Vestergaard, Bednarek, Bertrand, Romeu, JWP, Armstrong, Djenepo, Adams, Ings.

Subs: Forster, Stephens, Vokins, Jankewitz, Tella, Long, Obafemi. 

Edit - Just realised how inexperienced/poor that bench looks 😬

Edited by Harry_SFC
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McCarthy, KWP, Vestergaard, Bednarek, Bertrand, Romeu, JWP, Armstrong, Djenepo, Adams, Ings.

This team for me, Stephens was appalling yesterday, and we're lucky we have a bit of depth in that position where we can change it.

The rest of the team picks itself.

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I suspect Vestergaard would be a disaster in a side playing such a high line. Although Burnley lost to a very good Leicester side yesterday they showed more than enough to suggest this is going to be another tough game for us.

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14 hours ago, Teddeer said:

I suspect Vestergaard would be a disaster in a side playing such a high line. Although Burnley lost to a very good Leicester side yesterday they showed more than enough to suggest this is going to be another tough game for us.

there are no easy games in the premiership - especially when you're shite

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Basically it doesn’t matter what keeper or back four Ralph plays - if he continues to insist on the kamikaze king tactics of the last three games we will lose. Again. I don’t think he’ll change because he probably believes it will come good eventually. 2-0 loss then.

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6 minutes ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

Basically it doesn’t matter what keeper or back four Ralph plays - if he continues to insist on the kamikaze king tactics of the last three games we will lose. Again. I don’t think he’ll change because he probably believes it will come good eventually. 2-0 loss then.

Its not about a kamikaze tactic, playing a high line is perfectly fine.

You just to find the right balance between when to do and when not.

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10 minutes ago, stevy777_x said:

Its not about a kamikaze tactic, playing a high line is perfectly fine.

You just to find the right balance between when to do and when not.

Burnley’s front 2 pairing isn’t the quickest and will be less likely to exploit a high line as Son did.

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We normally struggle against Burnley but I have a weird feeling we will get a point or points against them this time. We need to, the sooner we get something on the board the better, or confidence will be knocked and, while the board kept faith in Ralph last season after the result that shall not be mentioned, they may get itchy trigger fingers before long. I hope not as I still think Ralph is the best manager we could hope for - he just needs a bit more backing in the transfer market. A CM and another AM would be great, add another CB to that and it would be perfect.

 

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6 hours ago, wild-saint said:

Burnley’s front 2 pairing isn’t the quickest and will be less likely to exploit a high line as Son did.

Perhaps they'll play Vydra and Rodriguez, both easily outpacing our defenders.

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All down to RH this one isn't it.

3 games, against different teams and styles of play so he's seen what he has to play with, and a week to recover / train / consider tactics.

I want a win, I'm not expecting a win, but I'm expecting RH to show he can change things when he needs to and not vainly stick to a playing style that's not working. We'll see won't we...

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Mixed feelings on the tactics for this one. The high line wasn't necessarily bad against Palace, if we had our shooting boots on and Romeu could reliably make 10 yard passes we probably would have won that one. 

Against spurs the high line was suicide as they had one of the best passers in the league (kane) and one of the best and fastest forwards in the league (son) and between them they tore us apart. Burnley don't have that sort of firepower and prefer to sit deep and defend deep. Really this is the sort of game the high line would flourish at. I wouldn't blame Ralph for giving it another go but am aware if we lose again with the high line people will be fuming at him, even if it is more due to player underperformance like at Palace rather than tactics like at spurs. 

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Bring in vestergaard, move Stephens to the bench. We know it’s going to be cross city.

long for Adams please, if Adams isn’t scoring have a player in who does far more for the team.

i’d like To see Sims on the bench. Won’t happen though. 

Can’t say i’m Opt8mistic. We’ve a terrible record and have displayed an inability to be tight defensively which would be needed to take anything from turf moor.

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37 minutes ago, Baird of the land said:

 

long for Adams please, if Adams isn’t scoring have a player in who does far more for the team.

 

 

Don't think much of Adams' quality, but he does a half decent job for the team in build up and workrate.

Has no-one noticed Long's legs are going? Doesn't have the same pace of old and can't sustain haring around the pitch for even an hour anymore. It was a mistake to extend his contract - it'll be declining returns from here on in. And that's from a guy who's previous returns were about four goals a year. 

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7 hours ago, sfc4prem said:

Perhaps they'll play Vydra and Rodriguez, both easily outpacing our defenders.

Neither of them are particularly quick. 

Even though I think both of Burnley's main centre-backs are injured, we never do well against them and I full expect it to continue, reckon it'll be similar to the Palace game, they will sit in and be deep, we'll have lots of possession, not take our chances and they will probably nick one. More likely from a set piece than a fast break in behind though I reckon. 

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14 hours ago, SNSUN said:

We normally struggle against Burnley but I have a weird feeling we will get a point or points against them this time. We need to, the sooner we get something on the board the better, or confidence will be knocked and, while the board kept faith in Ralph last season after the result that shall not be mentioned, they may get itchy trigger fingers before long. I hope not as I still think Ralph is the best manager we could hope for - he just needs a bit more backing in the transfer market. A CM and another AM would be great, add another CB to that and it would be perfect.

 

You are  not joking, that is weird!

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4 hours ago, qwertyell said:

Don't think much of Adams' quality, but he does a half decent job for the team in build up and workrate.

Has no-one noticed Long's legs are going? Doesn't have the same pace of old and can't sustain haring around the pitch for even an hour anymore. It was a mistake to extend his contract - it'll be declining returns from here on in. And that's from a guy who's previous returns were about four goals a year. 

I noticed that a couple of seasons ago. I'm a big admirer of him but we shouldn't be sentimental over players in our position.

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Forster in. Blame high lines all you want, least Forster fills the goal more than McCarthy and more is liable to hit him than go through him. 

He was in good form with Celtic and will be relishing the chance. McCarthy is useless on the ball anyway so what's the difference there. 

Vestergaard in for Bednarek who doesn't seem with it this season (not that Stephens is, but he's more committed).

And please stop messing around pretending Smallbone is vaguely ready to start games just to big up the academy.

Forster; Bertrand/Vestergaard/Stephens/KWP; JWP/Romeu; Djenepo/Armstrong; Ings/Adams

Still a team that can go and win if we focus more but would definitely take a point just to get the season going. It's such a short off season, packed schedule and there'll inevitably be cancellations and lockdowns thoughout. I think we just have to accept the key is survival at the moment until football gets back to something like normal. 

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5 hours ago, qwertyell said:

Don't think much of Adams' quality, but he does a half decent job for the team in build up and workrate.

Has no-one noticed Long's legs are going? Doesn't have the same pace of old and can't sustain haring around the pitch for even an hour anymore. It was a mistake to extend his contract - it'll be declining returns from here on in. And that's from a guy who's previous returns were about four goals a year. 

Bizarre people are so critical of Adams. Against Spurs he was strong, held up the ball well, ran with it well, passed well. He's always a threat, he's not one of those strikers whose just anonymous, he gets in the right positions. If he keeps up his first half v Spurs performance he'll get goals and help Ings a lot. 

Agree Long is of no use now he's slowed down and can't hassle defenders as much. No idea who approves these contract extensions. Be better off just using Obafemi and Redmond there and saving the wages. All for Long's 1 or 2 goals a season.

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Forget the high line but press them all over the park. Not rocket science, is it?

I'd play Long for his energy and drop Adams to the bench, or at least bring Long on to knacker them out. My worry is centre midfield, where we have absolutely nothing. Oh, and the keeper, who is gash.

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17 minutes ago, adriansfc said:

Forster in. Blame high lines all you want, least Forster fills the goal more than McCarthy and more is liable to hit him than go through him. 

He was in good form with Celtic and will be relishing the chance. McCarthy is useless on the ball anyway so what's the difference there. 

Vestergaard in for Bednarek who doesn't seem with it this season (not that Stephens is, but he's more committed).

And please stop messing around pretending Smallbone is vaguely ready to start games just to big up the academy.

Forster; Bertrand/Vestergaard/Stephens/KWP; JWP/Romeu; Djenepo/Armstrong; Ings/Adams

Still a team that can go and win if we focus more but would definitely take a point just to get the season going. It's such a short off season, packed schedule and there'll inevitably be cancellations and lockdowns thoughout. I think we just have to accept the key is survival at the moment until football gets back to something like normal. 

If Forster is anywhere near back to his best he is by far our best keeper.

McCarthy is in for shot stopping as his distribution is poor, if he's not saving above regulation saves (which he is not) then he's not very useful. Might as well have one of the other two as their distribution is better, plus I think Forster when confident is the better organiser/leader as well.

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No Sims in the B team game tonight so possibly in the squad for Saturday? I think we all know he's not the long term answer but he does have the ability make an impact off the bench - something our current back up options seriously lack.

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Just reading this chain is depressing but classic saints. Long cannot be the answer, the only thing he had was pace and that’s gone. 
depressing though it is Vestigaard is probably an upgrade on Bednerak at the moment, both painfully slow but at least Vest looks to get the ball forwards and gives more of a shit. 

have a horrible vision of a team with Forster, Vestigaard, Davies and Long as starters - heaven help us.

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26 minutes ago, CWD said:

No Sims in the B team game tonight so possibly in the squad for Saturday? I think we all know he's not the long term answer but he does have the ability make an impact off the bench - something our current back up options seriously lack.

Be happy to see that! Rewarding a player, who currently is showing form in the B team as the off the bench option for Saturday.

 

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Saints are a good team away from home and that if our high line isn't quite as ambitious as Sunday we can beat an injury hit Burnley team.  We were ok against a Palace team who are good on the counter (and who also played like an away team once they went a goal up). It was humiliating on Sunday but football can turn around quickly and we're not as bad as the score-line suggested. Personally I think that it is the type of game made for Vestergaard (and not playing a very high line ....). 

A good result can change our season quickly (although I'd be much more confident if we got a top quality defensive midfielder in). 

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21 hours ago, stevy777_x said:

Its not about a kamikaze tactic, playing a high line is perfectly fine.

You just to find the right balance between when to do and when not.

As in, don’t ever play it using substandard players against some of the fastest strikers in the World? A stupid tactic to use if you go 1-0 up against a top team and think that will work for the remainder of the game - this team (bar Ings)  is just not good enough to operate at that level. But that’s just my opinion...let’s see what the score is at 10pm Saturday - I may be wrong or Ralph may change things. I’m sticking with a 2-0 loss.

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4 hours ago, CWD said:

No Sims in the B team game tonight so possibly in the squad for Saturday? I think we all know he's not the long term answer but he does have the ability make an impact off the bench - something our current back up options seriously lack.

Has to be a better option than either Smallbone or Tella, neither of whom look like short term or long term answers.

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Have a feeling we'll make Burnley look like a top 6 team while allowing them to tear us apart with their relegation contender attack.

Unless of course ralph decides salisu was the answer after all and starts him. I wager an unfit salisu would offer more than our current lot.

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We have been totally overwhelmed by Burnley for the past three seasons. Struggling to make an impression. Last Season they took six undeserved points from us because we were absolute pants. Now is the time for revenge. Shaun Dyche will try to play hoofball and this time we must not fall for it. We ain't too bad when we play the ball on the deck so this has to be the way that we can not only avenge last seasons abysmal failures, but also to give them  the hiding they deserve. I always want Saints to win and I am pretty sure that Ralph has seen the errors of his ways after Sundays total submission to a not very good Spurs side. Son was the danger from the outset. We know that Burnley have no speed merchants; so take the game to them and for a change,give them a pasting. Saints to win.COYS

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7 hours ago, hypochondriac said:

I really really really hope we just go back to what was working well at the end of last season. Absolutely no need to change things at all until we have players capable of playing that way. 

Totally agree. Unfortunately RH has a track record of arrogantly sticking to tactics even if they dont work. You can already draw parallels to the odd tactics deployed at the start of last season...only really changed after THAT game. I was sat in disbelief that the instruction to pull back that high line a bit wasn't communicated after the second Son goal went in. Would love to hear RH come out and take some responsibility. He has a lot of talent but ffs, 90pc of fans could see the problem vs spurs. 

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There’s been a lot of talk about the high line against Spurs but as Carragher pointed out on MNF the goals we conceded were more down to the positioning of our defenders than a high line. He highlighted the gap between our centrebacks, them not being tight enough to the forwards and allowing them to turn and KWP being on the wrong side of Son. Our line wasn’t particularly high on the second and third goals - we just weren’t aggressive enough when the ball was played in to the forwards.

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35 minutes ago, vin said:

There’s been a lot of talk about the high line against Spurs but as Carragher pointed out on MNF the goals we conceded were more down to the positioning of our defenders than a high line. He highlighted the gap between our centrebacks, them not being tight enough to the forwards and allowing them to turn and KWP being on the wrong side of Son. Our line wasn’t particularly high on the second and third goals - we just weren’t aggressive enough when the ball was played in to the forwards.

Something has very clearly changed from the end of last season and the beginning of this one and the likelihood is it's something they wanted to implement for the start of this season. What we did after lockdown was working why would we change? 

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Jay Rodriguez has gone off injured for Burnley at Millwall tonight. One less danger man, Vydra will probably score a screamer again or Wood will bully our defence in the air. 

Last year we lost twice to Burnley in games that coincided with gale force winds , weather warnings for rain, what's the forecast for Turf Moor 8pm on Saturday?

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All optimism has gone which is strange given so good last season with no crowds and were much better than Spurs first half and even in Palace game could easily have won.

Armstong back is key and Djenpo in form is capable of terrorising them.

Mental strength of our players is always questionable and Stephens declined so much and needs to be dropped as a wake up call.where the fuck is Salisu- did he have Covid?

Need to have Boufal as impact sub option. So depressing looking at the bench and seeding Tella and Smallbone as options.

Burnley are capable of being shite though so still think we might nick it and we may just click.

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Not confident we’ve resolved all of our problems yet. Surely Ralph has learned about the defensive high line but he’s a stubborn so-and-so and I’m not confident as we wouldn’t have conceded so many goals from Son if he had adapted quicker. 

I would like to see Forster start rather than McCarthy who should’ve come off his line quicker for the first goal that Son scored which I felt he could have won had he been fast & decisive coming off his line. Mc Carthy is mediocre at best. Gunn should go out on loan. 

Lineup should remain the same, mainly because we have no depth or back up. I thought Che had a decent game last match but needs to be much more clinical when given chances. He was strong and held up the ball well. 

I can see a 1-1 draw. 
 

Forster

KWP  Stephens  Bednarek  Bertrand  

Romeu  Armstrong  JWP  Redmond  Djenepo 

Adams  Ings

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