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saint1977

saint1977

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, SuperSAINT said:

I made a rookie error and was incredibly naive and believed we would hear something pretty soon after the season finished.

I’m still unsure of what Semmens meant by a new investment model coming in from the fans forum. If it didn’t mean a takeover, what did it mean? Seems unlikely Gao has an investor when the PRC has moved strongly against overseas sports investments including football. You’d surely only invest as part of a new buyer line up? Could be the PRC authorities moved the goalposts on asking price? Or due diligence is taking longer. 

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Convict Colony

Convict Colony

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, SuperSAINT said:

I made a rookie error and was incredibly naive and believed we would hear something pretty soon after the season finished.

I make rookie errors every summer thinking this will be the summer of awesome transfer business and no unwanted sales.

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IFHP

IFHP

Posted
Posted (edited)
57 minutes ago, stevy777_x said:

What is bleak is that there are no credible interested parties. 

Yeah I agree. 

Not sure what we will offer to a potential buyer too .

We have an owner who wants a reported £200,000,000 for his 80% stake and then a team that needs the best part of £50,000,000 odd of investment arguably just to finish 15th again . 

Edited by IFHP
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Roo1976

Roo1976

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, IFHP said:

Yeah I agree. 

Not sure what we will offer to a potential buyer too .

We have an owner who wants a reported £200,000,000 for his 80% stake and then a team that needs the best part of £50,000,000 odd of investment arguably just to finish 15th again . 

Thats alot of help.........£250 m help.

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S-Clarke

S-Clarke

Posted
Posted

I think it was always a pipe dream to expect anything in place for this summer. We just have to do as well as we can to scrape by this summer and try, where possible, to be very clever and creative in the market with the loose change we have

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trousers

trousers

Posted
Posted

# Thinking out loud klaxon #

Could it be argued that Gao might only get the financial settlement he wants/needs if we get relegated?

I'm thinking he might stand more chance of getting closer to his money back if the club's value declines (due to relegation), and is therefore more sellable, and he siphons the parachute payment out of the club to make up the difference...?

As I say, just thinking out loud so could be a load of old tosh (for once!)

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nta786

nta786

Posted
Posted
10 minutes ago, trousers said:

# Thinking out loud klaxon #

Could it be argued that Gao might only get the financial settlement he wants/needs if we get relegated?

I'm thinking he might stand more chance of getting closer to his money back if the club's value declines (due to relegation), and is therefore more sellable, and he siphons the parachute payment out of the club to make up the difference...?

As I say, just thinking out loud so could be a load of old tosh (for once!)

I think there is very little logic to that!

If the clubs value declines, then he for sure will not be recouping anywhere near his £180m. In fact, I'd say he'd be lucky to get over a £100m. I don't think we'd be sellable either if hes drawing out the parachute cash!

If I recall correctly, I think keeping VVD was a big reason for Gao paying as much as he did too, after all he was a £75m asset at the time. 

Also, surely if he wants to siphon money out, then best way to siphon that out is by remaining a PL club with the c. £100m we get every year just from being in the league?

 

On a separate point, I don't understand people who say relegation is good for the club because it allows a rebuild... Surely it's easier to "rebuild" by finishing 17th and the c. £100m that comes with it?

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JustinSFC

JustinSFC

Posted
Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, stevy777_x said:

What is bleak is that there are no credible interested parties. 

Nobody seriously interested are going to show their hand this early, we were only mathematically safe 3 weeks ago +/-.

Any buyer with any common sense at all is going to let all the other chancers show their hand first to see what Gao's true intentions are and how much he's really prepared to accept.

Once that's known, anyone with the legitimate means to buy the club will just come in, put the money on the table and it'll be done.
 

 

 

 

Edited by JustinSFC
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SaintZamboni

SaintZamboni

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, nta786 said:

I think there is very little logic to that!

If the clubs value declines, then he for sure will not be recouping anywhere near his £180m. In fact, I'd say he'd be lucky to get over a £100m. I don't think we'd be sellable either if hes drawing out the parachute cash!

If I recall correctly, I think keeping VVD was a big reason for Gao paying as much as he did too, after all he was a £75m asset at the time. 

Also, surely if he wants to siphon money out, then best way to siphon that out is by remaining a PL club with the c. £100m we get every year just from being in the league?

 

On a separate point, I don't understand people who say relegation is good for the club because it allows a rebuild... Surely it's easier to "rebuild" by finishing 17th and the c. £100m that comes with it?

I think the theory would be that we go down and shift many high earners and dead wood.

You can then bring in new players on less wages as you adjust to the lower turnover. When (if) you get promotion then you get the premier league payday and can buy players to supplement without it dragging you under or give you best players a pay bump. 

Saints can’t really rebuild because that 100m is allocated to our two crap keepers, Shane long, Lemina, hoedt etc. Easier to shed them if you’re relegated and teams hunt a bargain

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SuperSAINT

SuperSAINT

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, stevy777_x said:

What is bleak is that there are no credible interested parties. 

Curious that Slater doesn't believe there are interested parties when Dan Sheldon thinks there are.  (I don't know if he knows that for sure, or if he's guessing).

You would have expected the 2 to liaise with each other on the article.  They have done before.

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trousers

trousers

Posted
Posted (edited)
40 minutes ago, SaintZamboni said:

I think the theory would be that we go down and shift many high earners and dead wood.

You can then bring in new players on less wages as you adjust to the lower turnover. When (if) you get promotion then you get the premier league payday and can buy players to supplement without it dragging you under or give you best players a pay bump. 

Saints can’t really rebuild because that 100m is allocated to our two crap keepers, Shane long, Lemina, hoedt etc. Easier to shed them if you’re relegated and teams hunt a bargain

Yeah, think this is where my thinking-out-loud was leading. If the prospect of selling as a premier League club has reached a stalemate, then something as 'creative' as relegation might be something that is worth Gao contemplating, even if, on reflection, it's bonkers... what other options does he have if he can't attract a suitable buyer whilst in the PL...?

Edited by trousers
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nta786

nta786

Posted
Posted
40 minutes ago, SaintZamboni said:

I think the theory would be that we go down and shift many high earners and dead wood.

You can then bring in new players on less wages as you adjust to the lower turnover. When (if) you get promotion then you get the premier league payday and can buy players to supplement without it dragging you under or give you best players a pay bump. 

Saints can’t really rebuild because that 100m is allocated to our two crap keepers, Shane long, Lemina, hoedt etc. Easier to shed them if you’re relegated and teams hunt a bargain

All would be very much dependent on what the relegation clauses on players salaries are like though!

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Matthew Le God

Matthew Le God

Posted
Posted
44 minutes ago, Fan The Flames said:

We are fucked with this shit incapable chancer as our owner. For those desperate to see Kat leave, this really is a tale of be careful what you wish for.

Not his fault if his country closed off him being able to invest shortly after the takeover. 

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MarkSFC

MarkSFC

Posted
Posted
10 hours ago, Matthew Le God said:

Not his fault if his country closed off him being able to invest shortly after the takeover. 

Maybe, maybe not. Still equates to state we're in. The reasons for no investment are irrelevant. We need someone or a group that can deliver a long term investment and development  plan. 

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Toussaint

Toussaint

Posted
Posted
32 minutes ago, Saint J 77 said:

If there truly is no one interested, let's keep hope alive. Let's start a https://uk.gofundme.com/ page 😆

We could out do the Skates as the best run community club ever 😂

I know I shouldn't have to say this, but just to be clear I am joking. 

 

what about a cake sale? if everyone at SMS bakes a cake, sells it to the person next to them for £8300.00 ish, we are nearly there, I don't know why know no one else thought of it.

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JustinSFC

JustinSFC

Posted
Posted
13 hours ago, Matthew Le God said:

Not his fault if his country closed off him being able to invest shortly after the takeover. 

Leave it out. Come the fuck on.

The bloke failed the Fit and proper persons test TWICE.

The PL literally changed the rules after Gao bought us and because of it.

They changed the rules so that somebody like him could never pass it and if he took the test today he'd comprehensively fail it.

And that's not even getting started on the fact nobody had ever heard of the bloke before. As in nothing. 

There's no real attributable source to where his money is, where it came from or how much he has.

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Matthew Le God

Matthew Le God

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, JustinSFC said:

Leave it out. Come the fuck on.

The bloke failed the Fit and proper persons test TWICE.

The PL literally changed the rules after Gao bought us and because of it.

They changed the rules so that somebody like him could never pass it and if he took the test today he'd comprehensively fail it.

And that's not even getting started on the fact nobody had ever heard of the bloke before. As in nothing. 

There's no real attributable source to where his money is, where it came from or how much he has.

How is any if that relevant as a reply to what I said? You appear to think I've said something I didn't. All that post says is that he was prevented from investing in the club by his national government through no fault of his own.  Are you disputing that? 

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danjosaint

danjosaint

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Matthew Le God said:

How is any if that relevant as a reply to what I said? You appear to think I've said something I didn't. All that post says is that he was prevented from investing in the club by his national government through no fault of his own.  Are you disputing that? 

So genuine question, do you think he would've put cash in if he wasn't prevented by the Chinese government,  because I certainly don't,  but that's just my opinion

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JustinSFC

JustinSFC

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

How is any if that relevant as a reply to what I said? You appear to think I've said something I didn't. All that post says is that he was prevented from investing in the club by his national government through no fault of his own.  Are you disputing that? 

It's relevant to what you said because everything I've said happened BEFORE  any of what you said was even a thing.

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Matthew Le God

Matthew Le God

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, JustinSFC said:

It's relevant to what you said because everything I've said happened BEFORE  any of what you said was even a thing.

It is not relevant to my post at all, it is on a completely different tangent. Do you deny that he was denied the opportunity to invest in the club by his government?

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JustinSFC

JustinSFC

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

It is not relevant to my post at all, it is on a completely different tangent. Do you deny that he was denied the opportunity to invest in the club by his government?

Fosun don't have that problem.

Also, serious doubts were raised about Gao by the PL a long time before any of the Chinese government stuff came into play.

That was obvious to everyone except you and Stevie wonder.

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Fan The Flames

Fan The Flames

Posted
Posted
13 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

How is any if that relevant as a reply to what I said? You appear to think I've said something I didn't. All that post says is that he was prevented from investing in the club by his national government through no fault of his own.  Are you disputing that? 

Nothing that you said was a relevant answer to my post, that didn't stop you. I didn't apportion any blame just stated it as I see it, he is a shit, incapable chancer. Chancer because he bought us to curry favour with the Chinese government, incapable because he is now hamstrung by the same government and seemingly unwilling to challenge that position and shit because he hasn't done anything right as our chairman.

Feel sorry for him if you want, but he should never have been allowed to own us and the sooner he is gone the better. But that won't happen anytime soon, and all the time it doesn't we will be potless, shit average also rans.

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Wurzel

Wurzel

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Fan The Flames said:

Nothing that you said was a relevant answer to my post, that didn't stop you. I didn't apportion any blame just stated it as I see it, he is a shit, incapable chancer. Chancer because he bought us to curry favour with the Chinese government, incapable because he is now hamstrung by the same government and seemingly unwilling to challenge that position and shit because he hasn't done anything right as our chairman.

Feel sorry for him if you want, but he should never have been allowed to own us and the sooner he is gone the better. But that won't happen anytime soon, and all the time it doesn't we will be potless, shit average also rans.

To be fair I'd dispute the BIB. He'sdone the right thing by leaving the running of the club to Semmens & Co. Christ (or Confucious) knows what shit we'd be in now if he put no money in AND decided he wanted to be hands on and treated us as a plaything.

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nta786

nta786

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Matthew Le God said:

How do you know that to be a fact?

Come off it MLG, not every thing has to be justified or be a "fact".

This is a forum where we all speculate a little bit and give our views on things. Not everything has to be authenticated with a spreadsheet.

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Matthew Le God

Matthew Le God

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, Saint Garrett said:

The fact he hasn't got any money...

 

3 hours ago, Matthew Le God said:

How do you know that to be a fact?

 

1 hour ago, nta786 said:

Come off it MLG, not every thing has to be justified or be a "fact".

This is a forum where we all speculate a little bit and give our views on things. Not everything has to be authenticated with a spreadsheet.

In this case he claimed it was a fact! So it is not unreasonable to ask why he considers it a fact! 🙄

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hypochondriac

hypochondriac

Posted
Posted
13 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

 

 

In this case he claimed it was a fact! So it is not unreasonable to ask why he considers it a fact! 🙄

The fact you're a bellend doesn't need substantiating with any more evidence than you've already provided. 

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verlaine1979

verlaine1979

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Matthew Le God said:

 

 

In this case he claimed it was a fact! So it is not unreasonable to ask why he considers it a fact! 🙄

You could look at the absolute collapse in value of Lander. Early references to his wealth were derived from the value of that company, which is now worth only about 20% of its peak value. On that basis, £200m is probably a generous estimate of his total net worth now, unless the Chengdu authorities gave him a very soft landing when they took over control of Lander in 2019.

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suewhistle

suewhistle

Posted
Posted
40 minutes ago, ErwinK1961 said:

I would say the fact he borrowed the money to purchase his 80% stake in the first place is a decent clue.

Actually that's not as good a clue as you think given Manchester Utd and Liverpool were leveraged buyouts too and major investments like that are often with borrowed money. That said, no I don't reckon he's got much money either..

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suewhistle

suewhistle

Posted
Posted
9 hours ago, Toussaint said:

what about a cake sale? if everyone at SMS bakes a cake, sells it to the person next to them for £8300.00 ish, we are nearly there, I don't know why know no one else thought of it.

We sold cakes at one of the clubs I played for. Nobody fancied my flapjacks though.. 😞

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Saint Billy

Saint Billy

Posted
Posted

So basically whilst owned by Gao we have to run on a self sustainable basis, so in order to buy we have to sell. We have a few players who are sellable ie Ings, Vest, JWP etc, the problem with that is we are crap with those players so what the hell will we be like with cheaper alternatives.

 

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verlaine1979

verlaine1979

Posted
Posted

If recruitment is good, as it has been in the past, then all of those players are replaceable for less than we'll get for them. If recruitment at the club is still bad, then we're screwed in the pretty near-term anyway, as Ings and Vest will be gone in a year and you can't stake premier league survival on JWP alone.

I guess it's gamble on recruitment now with a little money in the bank, or gamble on recruitment in a year with no money in the bank. Either way, if the scouting is sh*t we're done for.

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cambsaint

cambsaint

Posted
Posted (edited)

I think that some of our younger supporters have delusions of grandeur and a hopelessly optimistic belief that some very hard headed billionaire is going to buy Saints as a novelty purchase for a bit of fun. Highly unlikely in the present Covid climate, even if it was before. There probably has never been a more inopportune time to sell a n average Premier League club. 

I don't know how Gao will get out of this except at a truly fire sale price. We just have to hope that the club remains solvent and tailor our ambitions to existing in the same cohort as the bottom half Prem clubs and the better Championship clubs 

Hopefully we still can find a bargain or two, and hopefully our academy will produce more good youngsters.

Realistically our best hope is to remain mid table and with the glaring exception of right back and very sparse cover. The players we have if well managed and coached are capable of that. We will of courese remain a selling club.

I can foresee a merry go round situation taking place with relegated  clubs often returning due to parachute money which gives them a huge advantage over the bulk of Championship clubs.

Hopefully post Covid we may become a more attractctive purchase. In the mean-time I shall console myself with the thought that when I started supporting Saints they were in the third division South

Edited by cambsaint
typos
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