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27 minutes ago, SuperSAINT said:

Re: Hypo's info.

I think as a rule, most early word of mouth in the press seemed to point to American interest... Whether that was DaGrosa or not I'm not sure, but info seemed to point to there being another US group that was close pre-Covid.

The worrying element is that Da Grosa did seemingly enter a period of exclusivity. You would hope jokers like that get binned off before they even start talks.

Just shows Gao will sell to anyone who can raise the cash, no matter who they are, whats their plans are and whose money they use.

Unfortunately the biggest liklihood is that we end up with a wally frontman of DaGrosa's ilk who fancies some limelight, backed by invisible, emotionless investors of the minimum amount of money needed to keep us ticking along or who need financial returns within a couple of years.

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1 hour ago, SuperSAINT said:

Re: Hypo's info.

I think as a rule, most early word of mouth in the press seemed to point to American interest... Whether that was DaGrosa or not I'm not sure, but info seemed to point to there being another US group that was close pre-Covid.

If it is true you've just got to hope that it's not some chancer or some sort of dreadful consortium with no cash. I definitely don't want to turn into some awful branding off shoot of American sports teams. The blessing of gao is that although he has no cash he also leaves us alone completely which is great in a way. 

Edited by hypochondriac
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8 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

If it is true you've just got to hope that it's not some chancer or some sort of dreadful consortium with no cash. I definitely don't want to turn into some awful branding off shoot of American sports teams. The blessing of gao is that although he has no cash he also leaves us alone completely which is great in a way. 

Totally Agree

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3 hours ago, CanadaSaint said:

Slowly losing the will to live as I naively check this thread for possible takeover news.

Every time MLG wades in with yet another correction or semantic nitpick I’m reminded of Robin Williams’ superb line in Good Morning Vietnam:

”You’re in more dire need of a blowjob than any white man in history”

How you know he’s  man?  That ain’t no man .. that’s a 38 yr old whinging left on the Shelf wench !..embarrassing!

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12 hours ago, Streaky said:

He's a arsenal fan, that's the only reason he wants to buy the club. Why would he be interested in us?.

Overseas fan probably picked up 'supporting' them from when Freddie Ljundberg was playing for them, could confuse him with the red and white kits and then roll out Jakobsson & Ostlund to tempt him in. Could also set up a fan TV webpage and have some fans shout out 'Blud' & 'Fam' many times.

Edited by skintsaint
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21 hours ago, Matthew Le God said:

I'm distantly related to Benny Hill, doesn't mean I've ever spoken to him.

Benny Hill What GIF

Bein g a milk vendor doesn't mean your a relative of Benny Hill.  Not even if you deliver in Eastleigh.

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12 hours ago, hypochondriac said:

If it is true you've just got to hope that it's not some chancer or some sort of dreadful consortium with no cash. I definitely don't want to turn into some awful branding off shoot of American sports teams. The blessing of gao is that although he has no cash he also leaves us alone completely which is great in a way. 

It is not great having someone leaving us alone with no cash. 
Not having an overall strategy, drive or direction could be our downfall ultimately.

 

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11 minutes ago, stevy777_x said:

It is not great having someone leaving us alone with no cash. 
Not having an overall strategy, drive or direction could be our downfall ultimately.

 

We do have a strategy. It’s not one we like, but we do have one. 
 

Our strategy is to spend what we earn and remain a sustainable club, that’s pretty clear. Gao let’s others run the day to day running of the club, which is good. 

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23 minutes ago, SKD said:

We do have a strategy. It’s not one we like, but we do have one. 
 

Our strategy is to spend what we earn and remain a sustainable club, that’s pretty clear. Gao let’s others run the day to day running of the club, which is good. 

I wouldn't even say I dislike it. Staying sustainable and hoping to luck out on a couple of good cheap transfers and having a good season or two (like 2014-16) is not the worst deal. Some clubs have it better and can really push on but equally some clubs have owners who drain them dry. I'd say I am ambivalent on Gao. Personally a takeover makes me more nervous than excited, with the quality of other recent takeovers like Burnley.

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21 minutes ago, TWar said:

I wouldn't even say I dislike it. Staying sustainable and hoping to luck out on a couple of good cheap transfers and having a good season or two (like 2014-16) is not the worst deal. Some clubs have it better and can really push on but equally some clubs have owners who drain them dry. I'd say I am ambivalent on Gao. Personally a takeover makes me more nervous than excited, with the quality of other recent takeovers like Burnley.

The issue is that it’s too high risk. When shopping in the market of the cost of championship players, more often than not, you’re gonna get a championship player. 

My only gripe is reluctance to spend a bit more and shop in that next bracket. Not only will they likely be better players, but they’ll have a higher re-sale value. Look at Leicester as an example. Don’t spend a fortune and are a selling club. The difference is they’re willing to spend £50 on Telimans (what’s his value now? 80m+ probably) or £30 on forfana. 

That being said, I don’t blame Gao when looking at the shite brought in under Wilson, which effectively was £100m down the drain. 

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Hahaha this thread is hilarious, new surprises everyday, do we have any other famous relations out there of saintsweb members.

Bring on the end of season and the transfer window thread where i have the fake hope every year we will buy someone awesome.

 

 

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2 hours ago, stevy777_x said:

It is not great having someone leaving us alone with no cash. 
Not having an overall strategy, drive or direction could be our downfall ultimately.

 

It's not great but it's infinitely better than a Vincent tan or that awful Hull City owner or Carl oyston. Leaving us alone and letting us get on with it is vastly preferable than something like that. 

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17 hours ago, SuperSAINT said:

Re: Hypo's info.

I think as a rule, most early word of mouth in the press seemed to point to American interest... Whether that was DaGrosa or not I'm not sure, but info seemed to point to there being another US group that was close pre-Covid.

I think we can safely say any takeover is going to be odds on yank.

We've been linked with yank takeovers since this came out.

It doesn't take a fucking genius inside scoop to work that out.

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25 minutes ago, JustinSFC said:

I think we can safely say any takeover is going to be odds on yank.

We've been linked with yank takeovers since this came out.

It doesn't take a fucking genius inside scoop to work that out.

TBF I didn't claim to have some inside scoop. I hope people can take it for what it is which was a quick word with a relative of mine who may or may not have had some info about a takeover. 

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To be fair, as with any business any info will/should be very limited as NDAs should ensure that minimal info can be provided.  That's why, typically, the first thing you'll hear, publicly, in business is when it gets to the due diligence phase.  Until that moment 'loose lips cost lives' and can derail things very quickly.

Where would the fun be if we can't speculate on these things?

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8 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

What has he said? We need something positive!

Nothing to wet yourself over.  He said there were talks and the fact that nothing has been plastered over the media suggests it could be serious rather than a publicity seeking tyre kicker.

Then again, no news could mean no news.

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4 minutes ago, Wade Garrett said:

Nothing to wet yourself over.  He said there were talks and the fact that nothing has been plastered over the media suggests it could be serious rather than a publicity seeking tyre kicker.

Then again, no news could mean no news.

Where has he said something? 

 

Nothing on his twitter 

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The Ownership has to be the most important thing to get sorted over the summer. Yes the squad needs a massive overhaul but the club is a mess. Rotten at its core.

When we went down to league 1 on minus 10 points. The squad we started that season with was down to the bare bones but the new ownership brought with it new hope. The fact the squad was weak didn’t matter because the optimism was there. Fans and the playing staff alike knew things would get sorted and as we know they did. 

As it stands right now everyone knows we are a sinking ship and I don’t blame any of our half decent players wanting out.

At the recent fans forum Martin Semmens said something was happening with investment and he was surprised it had not happened yet. To me that sounded more like broken promises from the current owner, not hope for a total change ownership. 

I know takeovers take time to complete. Even longer to be approved, if approved at all by the league these days. But IF there is something in the pipeline it can’t happened quick enough! 

 

Edited by Saint J 77
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I’d find it very surprising, after Semmens words on Gao at the fans forum that effectively lobbed him/his tenure under the bus, if there wasn’t something happening in the background 

We can only hope that we are taken on by somebody with integrity and a will to drive us forward instead of chancers looking to take on a club to add to an investment portfolio for a few years

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5 minutes ago, saint1977 said:

Les has been talking about takeover. With a pinch of salt coming from the man who bought Carrillo and Hoedt and hired Pellegrino eg full of BS. Better off relegated if he is even vaguely right, which I don’t think he is, given his track record.

https://www.footballfancast.com/southampton-fc-news/exclusive-les-reed-southampton-300m-potential-investors-e123

I mean he's not wrong is he. 

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On 17/05/2021 at 13:16, SKD said:

The issue is that it’s too high risk. When shopping in the market of the cost of championship players, more often than not, you’re gonna get a championship player. 

My only gripe is reluctance to spend a bit more and shop in that next bracket. Not only will they likely be better players, but they’ll have a higher re-sale value. Look at Leicester as an example. Don’t spend a fortune and are a selling club. The difference is they’re willing to spend £50 on Telimans (what’s his value now? 80m+ probably) or £30 on forfana. 

That being said, I don’t blame Gao when looking at the shite brought in under Wilson, which effectively was £100m down the drain. 

We DID shop in that higher bracket when we had money to spend. Vestergaard, Lemina, Honest, Carrillo, Osvaldo all were huge transfer fees. Unfortunately they were all bad buys as well. 

 

The idea that saints never spend £15-20million on players isn't true, we just fucking wasted it and then hamstrung ourselves with a huge wage bill.

 

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18 minutes ago, saint1977 said:

Les has been talking about takeover. With a pinch of salt coming from the man who bought Carrillo and Hoedt and hired Pellegrino eg full of BS. Better off relegated if he is even vaguely right, which I don’t think he is, given his track record.

https://www.footballfancast.com/southampton-fc-news/exclusive-les-reed-southampton-300m-potential-investors-e123

I wish he was such a font of wisdom when he was paying top dollar for Wessex League standard players.

He is a complete charlatan.

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6 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

I mean he's not wrong is he. 

Don’t know, Gao’s itk network is thousands of miles away. Semmens admitted they don’t have contact. So not sure where Les gets that from  or if he just made it up. KL would be less surprised at, and the MSD is fact. All I know is if they expect full price they will be left with nowt next May. KL made her profit first time assuming Gao paid the 80 pc, or a regional Chinese authority. Gao is set to take a partial bath if he sells this summer, total loss if he sells later

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On the basis that the club only has at best 20-30m (plus sales) it is going to take some very shred signings to guarantee safety next season. 

As it stands we are going to be struggling to compete any higher up than we finished. We saw how the end of season form of Sheffield Utd carried into the start of this season. I fear this is a distinct possibility for us next season unless we see 4 or 5 significant improvements. 

This seems unlikely from a 40-50m type budget. We need to find 4 or 5 players in the 15-25m bracket (slight depression of the market allowed for) rather than 4 or 5 players in the 5-15m bracket. 

And so I think Gao should take whatever he gets offered (within reason) this summer as next summer we could easily be in the championship and the value of the club and business would be significantly less. 

Invest 50-75m plus or take a hit of 50-75m.....

He clearly can't do the first option. 

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44 minutes ago, saint1977 said:

Les has been talking about takeover. With a pinch of salt coming from the man who bought Carrillo and Hoedt and hired Pellegrino eg full of BS. Better off relegated if he is even vaguely right, which I don’t think he is, given his track record.

https://www.footballfancast.com/southampton-fc-news/exclusive-les-reed-southampton-300m-potential-investors-e123

I find that a bit rich when he is responsible for some of the debt through paying big sums for players worth nought.

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1 hour ago, saint1977 said:

Don’t know, Gao’s itk network is thousands of miles away. Semmens admitted they don’t have contact. So not sure where Les gets that from  or if he just made it up. KL would be less surprised at, and the MSD is fact. All I know is if they expect full price they will be left with nowt next May. KL made her profit first time assuming Gao paid the 80 pc, or a regional Chinese authority. Gao is set to take a partial bath if he sells this summer, total loss if he sells later

Semmens doesn't have contact with Gao?

He's the effing Chief Executive Officer.

If that's true, fuck me.

Semmens actually said that?

Have I got that wrong?
 

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40 minutes ago, JustinSFC said:

Semmens doesn't have contact with Gao?

He's the effing Chief Executive Officer.

If that's true, fuck me.

Semmens actually said that?

Have I got that wrong?
 

At the fans forum there were quite a few Qs on the chat about Gao, why he bought the club, future plans etc. Semmens addressed them head on saying that Mr Gao spoke no English so direct communication seemingly not, and that Gao had been encouraged to acquire a club but the political mood music on investing in overseas sports changed quickly domestically leaving Gao in a ‘difficult position’. I got the impression he is pretty much a silent and reluctant owner. Which made the subsequent comment about a new investment model all the more intriguing. Some people read a takeover into that comment but it could taken a few ways.

Theres been media articles further back saying there’s little or no communication from the Chinese end so that wasn’t a left field comment by Semmens. Which is why he’d be stupid to want £200m and for Kat to want full price for her 20% having made loads selling to him, assuming he paid the 80. He might have had more chance if he’d sacked Les Reed when he arrived but Reed’s splurge in 2018 of the VVD money on appalling shite - Armstrong excepted - has done him in. Will get nowt with relegation so sell whilst he can. He doesn’t need to know football to see the results trend, and where it leads. That’s why I think Les is spouting shite. Les ruined SFC 2016-18 for many years but won’t accept any criticism, needs to STFU about the club tbh as he’s been active in the media recently trying to defend his record having left the FA quite quickly. IMHO Les is worse than Lowe, Branfoot and Askham combined in terms of resources squandered and mistakes not learned from. 

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42 minutes ago, saint1977 said:

At the fans forum there were quite a few Qs on the chat about Gao, why he bought the club, future plans etc. Semmens addressed them head on saying that Mr Gao spoke no English so direct communication seemingly not, and that Gao had been encouraged to acquire a club but the political mood music on investing in overseas sports changed quickly domestically leaving Gao in a ‘difficult position’. I got the impression he is pretty much a silent and reluctant owner. Which made the subsequent comment about a new investment model all the more intriguing. Some people read a takeover into that comment but it could taken a few ways.

Theres been media articles further back saying there’s little or no communication from the Chinese end so that wasn’t a left field comment by Semmens. Which is why he’d be stupid to want £200m and for Kat to want full price for her 20% having made loads selling to him, assuming he paid the 80. He might have had more chance if he’d sacked Les Reed when he arrived but Reed’s splurge in 2018 of the VVD money on appalling shite - Armstrong excepted - has done him in. Will get nowt with relegation so sell whilst he can. He doesn’t need to know football to see the results trend, and where it leads. That’s why I think Les is spouting shite. Les ruined SFC 2016-18 for many years but won’t accept any criticism, needs to STFU about the club tbh as he’s been active in the media recently trying to defend his record having left the FA quite quickly. IMHO Les is worse than Lowe, Branfoot and Askham combined in terms of resources squandered and mistakes not learned from. 

This club needs a root and branch reset. We've been fucked since 2015.

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15 minutes ago, JustinSFC said:

This club needs a root and branch reset. We've been fucked since 2015.

Since 2015?? To me it was before that - 2012. Once we got promoted, we then went into a period of no investment from the owner and instead were run like any other business in that we had to be self sustaining. Great in principle, but football isn't like any other business. And there's no need to point out that many others use it as a play thing and are happy to make losses. Against that, we have no chance of competing. We were lucky with recruitment, but in the past few years, there's been no one who has really improved so much that we can carry on as before. Maybe Ings, but with 1 year left, that won't really bring in enough like what we sold in the past. Kat did well out of Saints, really well. 

And frankly, our current owner might as well be the invisible man. 

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36 minutes ago, JustinSFC said:

This club needs a root and branch reset. We've been fucked since 2015.

We already did that when we got rid of Hughes, Les, Wilson and the insufferable gobshite hockey coach. But undoing the enormous damage they caused off the pitch will still take time, look at our goalkeepers for example, none of them are of the required standard and yet all three have been here longer than Ralph. For all the shite Gao gets, I think if the obese heiress hadn't sold we would have kept the clowns she put in place and been relegated by now.

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16 minutes ago, Cartman said:

We already did that when we got rid of Hughes, Les, Wilson and the insufferable gobshite hockey coach. But undoing the enormous damage they caused off the pitch will still take time, look at our goalkeepers for example, none of them are of the required standard and yet all three have been here longer than Ralph. For all the shite Gao gets, I think if the obese heiress hadn't sold we would have kept the clowns she put in place and been relegated by now.

😂😂

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14 hours ago, Cartman said:

We already did that when we got rid of Hughes, Les, Wilson and the insufferable gobshite hockey coach. But undoing the enormous damage they caused off the pitch will still take time, look at our goalkeepers for example, none of them are of the required standard and yet all three have been here longer than Ralph. For all the shite Gao gets, I think if the obese heiress hadn't sold we would have kept the clowns she put in place and been relegated by now.

Apart from promotion to the top flight, 4 top 8 finishes, 2 European campaigns and a cup final, what did she ever do for us? 

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To be honest with everything going on COVID, bad cash flow etc etc you could say we could be attractive as an undervalued asset which has a lot of growth potential on the books.

The risk would be to spend the cash to then ensure next season we remain in premier league.

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Current Chinese club owners are "caught between a rock and a hard place" after accumulating losses of more than €500 million since 2016

 5 May 2021 1:06 PM

An analysis reveals English clubs have by far been the most expensive investment for Chinese investors in recent years.

Clubs such as Inter Milan, Southampton and Wolves have sustained operating losses of almost €1 billion combined.

Political expert says owners are now in a position where they are unlikely to invest further but at the same time will struggle to offload their assets.

EMIL GJERDING NIELSON AND JOSEPH MAILIL, ANALYST nielson@offthepitch.com

 

After an 11-year wait Inter Milan finally secured the Serie A title on Sunday, representing the first trophy under Chinese majority shareholder Suning. 

Steady form throughout the season coupled with rivals' slump in form were key to the club's success, but the all-encompassing driver was in no doubt the investment made by the conglomerate since it acquired a nearly 70 per cent stake in 2016 for the reported price of around €270 million.

The club have recorded combined pre-tax losses of €163.9 million in the period until this season, a sign of what it takes to become successful in football. But, while Suning's journey with Inter Milan culminated on Sunday night, other Chinese investors have been less successful in European football.

Changing priorities

An Off The Pitch analysis can reveal the Chinese owners of FC Sochaux, Espanyol, Southampton, West Bromwich Albion, Wolves, Birmingham City, Reading, Inter Milan and Granada have overseen combined pre-tax losses of €539 million since the 2016/17 season when they started acquiring clubs as part of the Chinese Communist Party's (CCP) strategy to strengthen the country's football prowess. 

The findings only pertain to current Chinese owners in European football and therefore do not include clubs such as AC Milan and Aston Villa, though they are also well-known examples of loss-making entities. 

Now, though, the CCP has called on the country's businesses to focus on national investments, prompting most of the Chinese owners in European football to rethink their future involvement with the sport. Suning, for one, has been in discussions with various parties over a potential sale of its stake in Inter Milan. 


Therefore, it becomes relevant to ask: what exactly have the clubs, investors and the CCP gotten out of this relationship? 

Emlyon Business School Professor Simon Chadwick, who specialises in the relationship between sports and politics, explains the main reason Chinese investors started purchasing European clubs was that they wanted to build their own relationship with the CCP.

"The investors were speculative in that they thought there was an opportunity to make money through investing in overseas football. But they were also speculative in the sense that they were interpreting what the Chinese government wanted – to raise the profile of Chinese football," he says.

Hard to recoup investment 

As the Chinese investors moved in at a time when the government was promoting overseas investment it lead to some getting involved in over their heads due to their sparse experience with the football industry.

One example of this, according to Chadwick, is Lai Guochuan who since 2016 has owned West Bromwich Albion.

"I always use the phrase caught between a rock and a hard place. The investment was driven principally by political motives rather than economical, so he's now in a position where he can't pour money into the club because of financial controls imposed by the Chinese government," he says. 

With losses increasing year by year it has become increasingly harder to recoup investments. Selling at a loss simply would not be acceptable to the Chinese government.

"It would be very difficult for these investors to sell the clubs at less than what they paid for because that would draw the attention of Chinese authorities. They are in very challenged positions."

Building loyalty

And a good relationship with the government, Chadwick explains, is key to success in China. Just look at the case of Wang Jianlin whose Dalian Wanda Group acquired a 20 per cent stake in Atletico Madrid in 2015. 

Jianlin was subsequently forced to sell all but three per cent of his shareholding in the club as part of a strategy to reduce Dalian Wanda Group's debt. But when he returned to China rumours emerged he had been detained by the authorities and had his passport confiscated. 

"Arrest and imprisonment are very real possibilities for these people. This is an illustration of the action the Chinese government is prepared to take against entrepreneurs and business people who expose the Chinese financial system to undue and significant risk," Chadwick says. 

In turn, those who manage to get on the right side of the CCP build political capital they can use to smoothen the operations of their businesses. 

"If you're compliant with government policy you're much less likely to be scrutinized by the government, much less likely to be subject to interventions," Chadwick says.

Uncertain future

Assuming the Chinese owners do in fact exit their investments in the coming years they are likely to leave behind clubs in precarious financial situations. Of the clubs surveyed, none have recorded an operating profit since the 2016/17 season - for a combined operating loss of €924 million.

Meanwhile, clubs such as Inter Milan and Wolves have been heavily dependent on shareholder loans, requiring significant contributions from investors to balance the budgets. 

And for those in the Championship, Birmingham City, Reading and soon West Bromwich Albion, with wages-to-revenue ratios exceeding 200 per cent in some seasons, it's clear any new owner would have to be prepared to bankroll substantial losses at least in the short-term.

Chadwick points to American investors as some who could fill the vacuum left by the Chinese but also points to the situation with Girondins de Bordeaux as an example of investors who are not willing to accept losses indefinitely.

"It's an unfortunate truth for clubs like Girondins de Bordeaux that American investors who do move in can be disappointed by the financial performance of the assets they have bought," he says.

That presents a new challenge for governments and football bodies across Europe who are currently facing fan uprisings over foreign ownership – as seen recently in Manchester where fans have protested against the Glazer's stewardship.

"European governments, the EU and fans need to start thinking creatively about how they can address the precarious financial situations clubs are in. We need to think about how we preserve these kinds of 'socio,' cultural institutions and how they are perceived," Chadwick says.

"Because I'm not sure the vacuum they leave behind will be filled with investors who have a lot of patience and a high tolerance level when it comes to debt and financial losses." 

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