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Potential Takeovers


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16 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

Because him not being able to invest isn't his fault. Restrictions from his national government. 

We don't know that he could or would have put cash in if there were no restrictions. 

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37 minutes ago, egg said:

We don't know that he could or would have put cash in if there were no restrictions. 

In which case he shouldn't be judged harshly as it is jumping to conclusions. 

Don't take any of this as me not wanting a new owner, I do want someone who'll invest in the club.

Edited by Matthew Le God
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I know Ashley gets stick, and he's a bit of a dick all told, but he has put significant money into Newcastle and their fans would have to be daft to deny that.

Who did they sell this summer to fund the £26m move for Willock? Exactly. We are the only club who have to sell before we can do anything.

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2 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

I know Ashley gets stick, and he's a bit of a dick all told, but he has put significant money into Newcastle and their fans would have to be daft to deny that.

Who did they sell this summer to fund the £26m move for Willock?

40% of the Adam Armstrong deal helped them.

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2 hours ago, Matthew Le God said:

In which case he shouldn't be judged harshly as it is jumping to conclusions. 

Don't take any of this as me not wanting a new owner, I do want someone who'll invest in the club.

Agreed. We don't know what this guy would/could have done if he was able to inject cash, but what he hasn't done is sold us down the river. We could be in worse hands, but hopefully somebody will come in one day and be willing / able to throw cash at the club. 

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1 hour ago, S-Clarke said:

I know Ashley gets stick, and he's a bit of a dick all told, but he has put significant money into Newcastle and their fans would have to be daft to deny that.

Who did they sell this summer to fund the £26m move for Willock? Exactly. We are the only club who have to sell before we can do anything.

Not sure Ashley has put any of his own money into the club though.

Aside from the (unrealistic?) expectation that an owner's job is to pump money into a club, the disillusionment has a lot to do with them being relegated twice under his ownership, some woeful managerial appointments, and unpopular moves like renaming the stadium. Plus the Geordies' inflated sense of where their club should be challenging in the league, and some spells where the club didn't spend any money, possibly because they were paying off the debts built up under Freddy Shepherd

Edited by Ex Lion Tamer
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4 hours ago, Matthew Le God said:

Because him not being able to invest isn't his fault. Restrictions from his national government. 

He doesn't have any money to put in. He was a paper billionaire when Lander's stock price was high, but now the whole company is only worth about double what Saints is worth, which is probably why he lost control of it to local government over there. Similarly to Markus and KL we've now had three owners in a row with substantially overestimated net worth.

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1 hour ago, Ex Lion Tamer said:

Not sure Ashley has put any of his own money into the club though.

Aside from the (unrealistic?) expectation that an owner's job is to pump money into a club, the disillusionment has a lot to do with them being relegated twice under his ownership, some woeful managerial appointments, and unpopular moves like renaming the stadium. Plus the Geordies' inflated sense of where their club should be challenging in the league, and some spells where the club didn't spend any money, possibly because they were paying off the debts built up under Freddy Shepherd

Seven Premier League clubs have had less owner investment than us over the last 10 years apparently. Shows how lucky we were to have Markus really - these figures are from the period after he died although I guess it was perhaps still his money. 

Plus we've spent more on club infrastructure than 10 other clubs which I guess is where some of our potential transfer money has gone.

 

Edited by Ex Lion Tamer
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  • 4 weeks later...

"We tried to extend the group and I have been happy with the work that we did in the summer. We did nearly everything that we wanted to do.

"It helped us massively that we got a lot of money for Danny Ings and Jannik Vestergaard. This was crucial for us to be active in the transfer market as we have no owner who gives us a lot of money to sign players. We have to sell players if we want to buy new ones. I think with that we did a good job this summer."

Speaking of takeovers, thought it was very interesting for Ralph to say what he did today. 

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16 minutes ago, nta786 said:

"We tried to extend the group and I have been happy with the work that we did in the summer. We did nearly everything that we wanted to do.

"It helped us massively that we got a lot of money for Danny Ings and Jannik Vestergaard. This was crucial for us to be active in the transfer market as we have no owner who gives us a lot of money to sign players. We have to sell players if we want to buy new ones. I think with that we did a good job this summer."

Speaking of takeovers, thought it was very interesting for Ralph to say what he did today. 

I imagine he's as frustrated as us to be honest.

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48 minutes ago, nta786 said:

"We tried to extend the group and I have been happy with the work that we did in the summer. We did nearly everything that we wanted to do.

"It helped us massively that we got a lot of money for Danny Ings and Jannik Vestergaard. This was crucial for us to be active in the transfer market as we have no owner who gives us a lot of money to sign players. We have to sell players if we want to buy new ones. I think with that we did a good job this summer."

Speaking of takeovers, thought it was very interesting for Ralph to say what he did today. 

Wonder what we missed off of Ralph's hopes, No 6, GK ? 

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1 hour ago, S-Clarke said:

I imagine he's as frustrated as us to be honest.

I read that as him just saying that as a criticism of other clubs that have the luxury to build their squads unsustainably / have owners that can put money in regardless, whereas we are building our team on a tighter budget. The alternative take that fits certain fans' narratives (but is not something the manager would do) is he is openly criticising the current owners.

Edited by Saint86
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2 minutes ago, Saint86 said:

I read that as him just saying that as a criticism of other clubs that have the luxury to build their squads unsustainably / have owners that can put money in regardless, whereas we are building our team on a tighter budget. The alternative take that fits certain fans' narratives (but is not something the manager would do) is he is openly criticising the current owners.

Agree, it’s just a statement if fact really, everyone knows it. I guess the question is who will play well enough this season to find a 6 and goalie!?

Two v strong right backs may be one too many! 
 

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Yeah, I mean we new this already about Chairman Mao.  At least Ralph's confident that despite the predicament, we made good choices.  Bodes well for him, Semmens and the UK day-to-day management team.  

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17 hours ago, Saint Troy said:

Agree, it’s just a statement if fact really, everyone knows it. I guess the question is who will play well enough this season to find a 6 and goalie!?

Two v strong right backs may be one too many!   **
 

**.......only as long as they both stay fit.

With KWP and Tino at RB ...and Perraud, Small and/or even KWP  on the left, I think that's covered.

I think few of us would want to change MF.. Prowsey and Romeu in the middle and then a choice between

Stuart Armstrong and Will Smallbone (when fit), and  Elyounoussi and Diallo,  PLUS

one of Redmond or Djenepo creates a lot to choose from. 

 

The goalie question is more open .  McCarthy to stay (?), and Forster to leave we have no other experienced options.

A lot of press about Sam Johnstone, but we won't be the only club trying to sign him.

There were a few items in the summer... about the Albanien keeper (who plays in Italy,) but has anyone considered

the Swedish national keeper Robin Olsen.(?).    He makes very acrobatic saves and has great ball distribution.  

On loan to Everton last year but got just 7 games understudying Pickford  for a whole season, and then 

got robbed at knifepoint in his home ....... and is now on loan to..... Sheffield United (!).

Olsen single-handedly got Sweden a 0-0 draw against Spain in the Euros, and gave an outstanding performance last week

when the Swedes beat Spain in the World Cup qualifier.  

 

 

 

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18 hours ago, Badger said:

Wonder what we missed off of Ralph's hopes, No 6, GK ? 

At one point in the summer I remember him saying "If we had an owner who could spend money we might buy a £50m centerback, but we don't" or something like that, so I'm guessing a better option at CB than Lyanco.

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This thread is depressing when ever I see new posts I have a look hoping it will be news of a takeover just to find people talking about people talking about nothing ;)

Edited by trousers
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I spoke to someone who was approached to invest in a group looking to take over SFC (New York based).  They had identified the potential to buy from Mr Gao at a low price and build the value of club by investment in players and infrastructure and then to sell the club on at a profit. My contact thought that this looked possible in a relatively small way but decided not to get involved as it appeared that the main people leading the bid knew very little about football.  They had noted that SFC was high in the Premier League at the time (this must have been early last season) and so was obviously undervalued.  They talked about building SFC to Manchester City levels. He said at this point he walked away.  I have no idea if the others are still thinking of going ahead,

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1 hour ago, itchen said:

I spoke to someone who was approached to invest in a group looking to take over SFC (New York based).  They had identified the potential to buy from Mr Gao at a low price and build the value of club by investment in players and infrastructure and then to sell the club on at a profit. My contact thought that this looked possible in a relatively small way but decided not to get involved as it appeared that the main people leading the bid knew very little about football.  They had noted that SFC was high in the Premier League at the time (this must have been early last season) and so was obviously undervalued.  They talked about building SFC to Manchester City levels. He said at this point he walked away.  I have no idea if the others are still thinking of going ahead,

Sounds like that American chancer in the press a few month back. De Grosa was it?
 

If they thought we’d reach or get anywhere near the level of City, they’re either incredibly rich or incredibly naive. Given FFP rules basically making it impossible for a club like us to be that size now, I’d go for the second. 
 

The amount of investment needed would be staggering. 

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For one moment, I’m forgetting FFP (because that’s clearly a load of old bollocks) and dreaming of a time in the future when we had an owner with more to invest…

We could make more capital investments in the stadium to increase match day revenue from greater attendances, or even just pay for safe standing to improve the experience.

We could improve the facilities at the training ground even further and extend them.

We could invest in making the area around St. Mary’s  more attractive to visitors and making more money from rentals, income for the club if it was able to. 

We could bring in a crack commercial team and get rid of people very comfortable with the way things are and don’t want to do too much and risk their cosy jobs.

We could give Matt Crocker the money to get the best possible football staff in. 

We could be more aggressive in the recruitment of younger players so making it easier to compete with Chelsea specifically. 

Then, any money made from more lucrative and numerous commercial deals, increased ticket revenue, player transfers could just be used for football. 

Basically, it is what Man City have done in addition to spending on players. 

None of this is going to happen though but a boy can dream.

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7 minutes ago, Daft Kerplunk said:

For one moment, I’m forgetting FFP (because that’s clearly a load of old bollocks) and dreaming of a time in the future when we had an owner with more to invest…

We could make more capital investments in the stadium to increase match day revenue from greater attendances, or even just pay for safe standing to improve the experience.

We could improve the facilities at the training ground even further and extend them.

We could invest in making the area around St. Mary’s  more attractive to visitors and making more money from rentals, income for the club if it was able to. 

We could bring in a crack commercial team and get rid of people very comfortable with the way things are and don’t want to do too much and risk their cosy jobs.

We could give Matt Crocker the money to get the best possible football staff in. 

We could be more aggressive in the recruitment of younger players so making it easier to compete with Chelsea specifically. 

Then, any money made from more lucrative and numerous commercial deals, increased ticket revenue, player transfers could just be used for football. 

Basically, it is what Man City have done in addition to spending on players. 

None of this is going to happen though but a boy can dream.

Indeed, it's good and right to dream.  I would love us to have owners that have the funds, nous and commitment to use Leicester City as their template of how to maximise the potential of an unfashionable provincial club.  Recapture the momentum we got from the ML takeover but in the top flight, gain confidence get some swagger, win a trophy or two.  We would then also have the advantage of the city and environs not being a complete shithole. 

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Derby have gone into administration tonight - not surprising given the last 18 months. As usual it will be the SMEs who are shafted whilst footballing creditors clean up.

The correlation to Saints is of course MSD and the loan. Seems like MSD has effectively taken the driving seat and will appoint the administrator. Interesting tweet by Matt Slater about what he thinks they’ll do.

Worth watching the situation closely. Might be the final nudge to Gao to take a hit and sell for £100-125m ASAP rather than MSD pick up the carcass for a fraction. 

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31 minutes ago, saint1977 said:

Derby have gone into administration tonight - not surprising given the last 18 months. As usual it will be the SMEs who are shafted whilst footballing creditors clean up.

The correlation to Saints is of course MSD and the loan. Seems like MSD has effectively taken the driving seat and will appoint the administrator. Interesting tweet by Matt Slater about what he thinks they’ll do.

Worth watching the situation closely. Might be the final nudge to Gao to take a hit and sell for £100-125m ASAP rather than MSD pick up the carcass for a fraction. 

What did Matt Slater say?

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52 minutes ago, Suhari said:

What did Matt Slater say?

In summary- 

- MSD very much in charge

- Will find a buyer for c£25m

- Half of that figure covers CVA and next season’s losses in L1

- Extra payment in future seasons if promoted

- MSD keep Pride Park but again may be future obligation/option to buy

Downside is that EFL rules and business plan have to be stuck to for 24 months so unlikely to be a Liebherr-fuelled automatic double promotion. That said, and we’ve been in these shoes before ourselves, they should still have a club to support. Minus Shrek’s huge wages.

At least Semmens and co have reduced the very worst excesses and blunders eg Forster only one year left, Hoedt etc so not as profligate as Morris was but if we’d gone down in 2018…

Gao can’t fund the club full stop minus PL TV money so MSD look to be the end game for SFC as well, more a question of when unless he sees sense, takes a lower amount to get his retirement funds overseas.

 

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If I was Gao, on purely selfish terms, I'd probably hold out.

I want £200m. Not £100m. Or £125m. 

I also have a large tranche of cash in a real UK asset. If it falls in time to £100m or even £50m I still have a good retirement fund in Western assets. Everythign else I have is dependent on the CCP's behaviour.

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11 hours ago, SaintBobby said:

If I was Gao, on purely selfish terms, I'd probably hold out.

I want £200m. Not £100m. Or £125m. 

I also have a large tranche of cash in a real UK asset. If it falls in time to £100m or even £50m I still have a good retirement fund in Western assets. Everythign else I have is dependent on the CCP's behaviour.

Said it before but none of you are listening he has debt of 200m with McQuarie bank that he used to buy the club , he has a full FF PA guarentee and services the debt at 10 pc PA 20 m pa .

He can't take less than 200 m 

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33 minutes ago, charliemiller said:

Said it before but none of you are listening he has debt of 200m with McQuarie bank that he used to buy the club , he has a full FF PA guarentee and services the debt at 10 pc PA 20 m pa .

He can't take less than 200 m 

I guess at some stage, he'd take a haircut. But that probably presumes a death spiral in a post-relegation world.

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36 minutes ago, SaintBobby said:

I guess at some stage, he'd take a haircut. But that probably presumes a death spiral in a post-relegation world.

Unfortunately the Chinese govt don’t allow investors to take a loss on overseas investments, GAO is screwed .

Edited by East Kent Saint
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  • 2 weeks later...

Whens the next fans forum so Semmens can be asked about any possible takeover?

Bit depressing that we've heard absolutely nothing and those reporting on the club (Blackmore etc) have stopped enquiring. 

 

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if this happens I hope there's a funny transition stage where Mbappe and Haaland are playing up front while Jonjo Shelvey is in midfield and Steve Bruce is still manager.

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Yuck - football really is revolting these days. Saudis sports washing through football today mask a truly vile regime, Gao seemingly trying to use SFC as a branch of cash converters and not without issues/smoke on FAPP either. Shinawatra followed at City by Abu Dhabi. Then there’s Chelsea and of course the skates run of Gadyamak, the Arab who didn’t actually exist seemingly, Chainrai and CSI. 

Cricket has its faults but at least it has only had Allan Stanford by comparison. 

Edited by saint1977
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2 hours ago, The Cat said:

if this happens I hope there's a funny transition stage where Mbappe and Haaland are playing up front while Jonjo Shelvey is in midfield and Steve Bruce is still manager.

Newcastle fans already speculating which of the world's top coaches will get the job. 

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58 minutes ago, saint1977 said:

Yuck - football really is revolting these days. Saudis sports washing through football today mask a truly vile regime, Gao seemingly trying to use SFC as a branch of cash converters and not without issues/smoke on FAPP either. Shinawatra followed at City by Abu Dhabi. Then there’s Chelsea and of course the skates run of Gadyamak, the Arab who didn’t actually exist seemingly, Chainrai and CSI. 

Cricket has its faults but at least it has only had Allan Stanford by comparison. 

It is a mess , I miss the days of incompetent local businessmen running things, bring back Guy Askham 

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Saints club value has dropped right down now due to the excessive debt and covid, so i think its worth just £100-150M + debt (£100M+)

Derby County will lose ownership of their ground to MD holdings (we have large loan with them) unless they can satisfy their loan debt via a new owner.

 

Edited by SaintsLoyal
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24 minutes ago, SaintsLoyal said:

Saints club value has dropped right down now due to the excessive debt and covid, so i think its worth just £100-150M + debt tops

Derby County will lose ownership of their ground to MD holdings (we have large loan with them) unless they can satisfy their loan debt via a new owner.

 

Yep, and despite all of the guff on here about ‘Gao isn’t allowed to sell at a loss etc by the PRC authorities’ the fact is MSD has them both by the plumsack. He should have sold in the summer, he won’t get anywhere what he allegedly paid. See Derby now, see SFC in 12-18 months, there isn’t a Mel Morris spending money however appallingly it was spent at Derby. Derby have more debt because Morris ran it up at a rate of knots but SFC only has TV money plus shaky commercial income and falling gates because the home performances have been so abject.    
 

SFC is stuck in limbo, relegation gets rid of Gao but the Derby situation is worth watching to see how MSD behaves and what they do. That is worrying but they say they want to expand in the market so if they turn Derby around with a decent buyer it would help them achieve that rather than acting like an asset stripping low rent hedge fund. 

 

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