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Red

Red

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, Miltonaggro said:

And would still be an improvement on Gao! :)

Don't get the Gao neg's. Only thing he hasn't done is invest his own money - which he said right from the off that he would not, and 90+% of owners don't either. He has not interfered in anyway and left the on-field stuff to the board/manager. Our main problems (which we are working through fairly well finally) are not down to him, rather stupid decisions made by people he trusted to do their jobs (Les et al).

Careful what you wish for - would you rather Vincent Tan as owner? Don't get me wrong, not saying he's a saint (pun intended) but we could be a lot worse off.

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Miltonaggro

Miltonaggro

Posted
Posted
25 minutes ago, Red said:

Don't get the Gao neg's. Only thing he hasn't done is invest his own money - which he said right from the off that he would not, and 90+% of owners don't either. He has not interfered in anyway and left the on-field stuff to the board/manager. Our main problems (which we are working through fairly well finally) are not down to him, rather stupid decisions made by people he trusted to do their jobs (Les et al).

Careful what you wish for - would you rather Vincent Tan as owner? Don't get me wrong, not saying he's a saint (pun intended) but we could be a lot worse off.

It was lighthearted, apologies for the neg’s...

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verlaine1979

verlaine1979

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Red said:

Don't get the Gao neg's. Only thing he hasn't done is invest his own money - which he said right from the off that he would not, and 90+% of owners don't either. He has not interfered in anyway and left the on-field stuff to the board/manager. Our main problems (which we are working through fairly well finally) are not down to him, rather stupid decisions made by people he trusted to do their jobs (Les et al).

Careful what you wish for - would you rather Vincent Tan as owner? Don't get me wrong, not saying he's a saint (pun intended) but we could be a lot worse off.

11 out of 20 clubs have received meaningful owner financing over the past five years. And among clubs who haven't had any money from their owners in that period, both Leicester and Newcastle have had very sizeable (£100m+) loans from their owners immediately prior. Arsenal, Spurs and Man U also haven't had any cash from their owners, but they have significantly more commercial revenue than any club of our size.

Only Burnley, West Brom, West Ham and Saints are really trying to make it in this league on a self-sustaining basis without having large commercial revenues.

Edited by verlaine1979
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Cartman

Cartman

Posted
Posted
18 minutes ago, verlaine1979 said:

11 out of 20 clubs have received meaningful owner financing over the past five years. And among clubs who haven't had any money from their owners in that period, both Leicester and Newcastle have had very sizeable (£100m+) loans from their owners immediately prior. Arsenal, Spurs and Man U also haven't had any cash from their owners, but they have significantly more commercial revenue than any club of our size.

Only Burnley, West Brom, West Ham and Saints are really trying to make it in this league on a self-sustaining basis without having large commercial revenues.

You will find that much of the investment those clubs received was made in the Championship to get promotion and shortly after promotion to ensure they don't go straight back down, we got the same from Markus and Kat. But once established in the PL, few owners are going to throw money at the club.

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verlaine1979

verlaine1979

Posted
Posted
13 minutes ago, Cartman said:

You will find that much of the investment those clubs received was made in the Championship to get promotion and shortly after promotion to ensure they don't go straight back down, we got the same from Markus and Kat. But once established in the PL, few owners are going to throw money at the club.

Not really - leaving aside the likes of Chelsea, Everton and Man City, who have received scads of cash from their owners, even clubs like Brighton, Palace and Wolves have continued to receive owner funding after their promotion seasons. For the rest its too early to say, but I see no reason to assume that Villa, Fulham or Leeds' owners will follow our path rather than the one taken by Wolves.

 

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HarvSFC

HarvSFC

Posted
Posted

 

4 hours ago, verlaine1979 said:

11 out of 20 clubs have received meaningful owner financing over the past five years. And among clubs who haven't had any money from their owners in that period, both Leicester and Newcastle have had very sizeable (£100m+) loans from their owners immediately prior. Arsenal, Spurs and Man U also haven't had any cash from their owners, but they have significantly more commercial revenue than any club of our size.

Only Burnley, West Brom, West Ham and Saints are really trying to make it in this league on a self-sustaining basis without having large commercial revenues.

 

West Ham?

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saintquin

saintquin

Posted
Posted
15 hours ago, verlaine1979 said:

Not really - leaving aside the likes of Chelsea, Everton and Man City, who have received scads of cash from their owners, even clubs like Brighton, Palace and Wolves have continued to receive owner funding after their promotion seasons. For the rest its too early to say, but I see no reason to assume that Villa, Fulham or Leeds' owners will follow our path rather than the one taken by Wolves.

 

I don't know for sure but, I would have thought at least some of the funding they've received will be loans from the owners.

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tajjuk

tajjuk

Posted
Posted (edited)

People forget that promoted clubs have far more room in their budgets to make lots of signings, especially as transfers are accounted for across the years of the players contract as well.

So the likes of Fulham, Villa, Sheff Utd, Leeds etc. will be coming from championship wages and suddenly getting £100s of million from TV money, that gives them way more flexibility than the likes of us or Palace who will be sitting with a PL players on PL wages. 

Personally looking at net spends for most clubs I'd say us, West Ham, Palace, Burnley, Spurs, Arsenal, Liverpool, Newcastle, Leicester, and probably going forward (if they stay up) Leeds, Sheff Utd and West Brom are be run in a fairly sustainable approach, some of those clubs may have had some investment in the past from their owners but there certainly isn't signs its happening a lot now. 

Villa, Fulham are clearly getting some extra investment in, how long that continues if they stay in the league we'll have to see, FFP restrictions will start applying to them more the longer they are in the league and where they have to start renewing contracts on bigger wages. 

Chelsea and Man City are obviously the clubs with the biggest investment but I think both are trying to run more sustainably, Chelsea's big spend this year is not Abramovich its the sale the Hazard (and others) combined with a transfer ban.  It's also their 'loan army', they sell on players they barely play often making money from them. 

Everton are probably the ones who have had the most pumped into them by the owner in the last few seasons. 

Leicester are basically a better version of us now, they sign players for relatively small fees and then sell them on after 2-3 years for big profits, like Mahrez, Kante, and Maguire. If Maddison or Soyuncu has a good season this year they'll sell someone like that for big profit. 

Edited by tajjuk
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skintsaint

skintsaint

Posted
Posted (edited)

As its reported the majority of the worlds richest have got richer during the last year, I'm surprised a few haven't looked into picking up an EPL club on the cheap. Then again they probably don't want to waste their profits on a plaything!

Edited by skintsaint
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M271

M271

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, skintsaint said:

As its reported the majority of the worlds richest have got richer during the last year, I'm surprised a few haven't looked into picking up an EPL club on the cheap. Then again they probably don't want to waste their profits on a plaything!

A UK luxury car company that a friend of mine works for is heading for record sales this year even though they were shutdown from late March until early May, they have been working overtime since then to meet demand. Some reasons given are that the lockdowns have prevented buyers spending on lavish holidays, socialising etc and not investing in high end property due to price reduction risk.

And forward sales orders for 2021 are well ahead of planned as well, many from China who are still seeing substantial economic growth of 4.9% in the last quarter.

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hypochondriac

hypochondriac

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, SuperSAINT said:

Derby about to get taken over.

 

What this does do is highlight how absurd the idea is of a super league or of the big picture stuff. Who is to say that Derby won't be the same stature as Man City in a decade given the amount they could spend if this goes through? It's not like the big six have always consisted of the same teams at the top for the last thirty years, 

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SKD

SKD

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Saint Garrett said:

If that happens, it surely won't be long until they're in the premier league.  Will it get to a point where you require to have billionaire owners to even be in the league?!

Another club that’ll over take us. We need Gao to sell ASAP amd hope that it’s someone with a bit of cash willing to invest. Unfortunately, I suspect there are more championship clubs who are more appealing than us atm (unless Gao drops his price by 50m...)

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Suhari

Suhari

Posted
Posted
21 minutes ago, SKD said:

Another club that’ll over take us. We need Gao to sell ASAP amd hope that it’s someone with a bit of cash willing to invest. Unfortunately, I suspect there are more championship clubs who are more appealing than us atm (unless Gao drops his price by 50m...)

I think there were reports that he had dropped his asking price as a result of Covid?

Surely we are more attractive than a Championship club? Or is Gao still after too much.

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S-Clarke

S-Clarke

Posted
Posted
29 minutes ago, Suhari said:

I think there were reports that he had dropped his asking price as a result of Covid?

Surely we are more attractive than a Championship club? Or is Gao still after too much.

It's not just Gao, Kat has got her fingers in it as well with 20% - so someone either needs to accept her being involved, or also pay for that.

There's no doubts that Gao wants all his money back, yeah cheers for nothing. But that is a lot of money in this current climate and as we saw in the days of Markus, there's much more financial growth in obtaining a decent sized lower league club and growing it into a PL club.

I'd say clubs like Wednesday, Forest, Derby etc are tons more attractive than ourselves.

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Tamesaint

Tamesaint

Posted
Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

 

I'd say clubs like Wednesday, Forest, Derby etc are tons more attractive than ourselves.

Hmmm. I am not sure about that. I know where you are coming from but a large amount of money will be required not only to buy the club and get them promoted but also to ensure that they don't become one of the "yo yo  clubs" like Norwich, WBA and Fulham.

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Convict Colony

Convict Colony

Posted
Posted

Given the losses we apparently have due to covid no one in the right mind would buy a football club while the main gap from fans seems to be up in the air.

The question is has the ppv price games mitigated it enough to make the commercial loss a lot less than the 2mil a month (think that was what semmens said).

If it has stabilised to around 750k commercial loss a month I reckon a buyer could get us for around 170mil to price in the 750k loss a month for the next 12 months.

If Gao is bleeding money in his other businesses then i could see him selling for less and taking a loss on his purchase.

Will be interesting to see if anything is actually happening !

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Convict Colony

Convict Colony

Posted
Posted
8 hours ago, bpsaint said:

How is it that Championship Derby are on the brink of a takeover despite being located in a shit hole, yet we’re struggling for a buyer despite being a Premier League team in the best part of the UK?! 

Maybe their financial issues have them undervalued, maybe their advisors have identified that area of the country as ripe for a premier league club, maybe they love Rams

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Turkish

Turkish

Posted
Posted
8 hours ago, bpsaint said:

How is it that Championship Derby are on the brink of a takeover despite being located in a shit hole, yet we’re struggling for a buyer despite being a Premier League team in the best part of the UK?! 

Similar sized club available for less than a third what Goa wants for us. It’s a no brainier for anyone wanting to buy a football club. 

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CB Fry

CB Fry

Posted
Posted
9 hours ago, bpsaint said:

How is it that Championship Derby are on the brink of a takeover despite being located in a shit hole, yet we’re struggling for a buyer despite being a Premier League team in the best part of the UK?! 

I am very familiar with both places and Derby is no more of a shit hole than Southampton which, let's be honest here, is an absolute fucking dump. 

If you're a foreign investor I am not sure the state of the local High Street or sink estate is much of a concern. So its irrelevant.

Derby have decent infrastructure, a sizeable fanbase and significant potential, as anyone who swooning over the "value added" during the Leibherr years likes to talk about.  Derby have the potential for promotion and the instant boost to the coffers that brings when we don't. We just have the constant pressure to keep spending to stay up.

I'd say Derby is a far better bet for a significantly cheaper price.

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Chewy

Chewy

Posted
Posted

While all that maybe true, we are already in the premier league and they aren’t. Irrespective of squad investment, the odds are stacked in favour of a premier league side not getting relegated v a championship side getting promoted.

The next obvious difference is we have a premier league squad and they don’t. Strip out the loans in Lampards season, that squad have been nowhere near good enough for years. You’d therefore think it will cost a lot more to upgrade their squad than the difference in the initial purchase price.

So it’ll cost a lot more and have a much higher risk of having premier league status. 
I do think it’s fair to question why Derby would be seen as a better investment than us from a cold, hard business perspective.

 

 

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lambtiss

lambtiss

Posted
Posted
12 minutes ago, Chewy said:

While all that maybe true, we are already in the premier league and they aren’t. Irrespective of squad investment, the odds are stacked in favour of a premier league side not getting relegated v a championship side getting promoted.

The next obvious difference is we have a premier league squad and they don’t. Strip out the loans in Lampards season, that squad have been nowhere near good enough for years. You’d therefore think it will cost a lot more to upgrade their squad than the difference in the initial purchase price.

So it’ll cost a lot more and have a much higher risk of having premier league status. 
I do think it’s fair to question why Derby would be seen as a better investment than us from a cold, hard business perspective.

 

 

It is a fair question, a big factor as with any purchase will be the sale price.

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bpsaint

bpsaint

Posted
Posted (edited)
56 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

I am very familiar with both places and Derby is no more of a shit hole than Southampton which, let's be honest here, is an absolute fucking dump. 

If you're a foreign investor I am not sure the state of the local High Street or sink estate is much of a concern. So its irrelevant.

Derby have decent infrastructure, a sizeable fanbase and significant potential, as anyone who swooning over the "value added" during the Leibherr years likes to talk about.  Derby have the potential for promotion and the instant boost to the coffers that brings when we don't. We just have the constant pressure to keep spending to stay up.

I'd say Derby is a far better bet for a significantly cheaper price.

When you’ve got the sort of money that their potential Sheikh has the purchase price becomes pretty irrelevant. They owners would make up the difference in tv rights money alone for the couple of years it would take to get the rams up to the Prem.

Edited by bpsaint
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Turkish

Turkish

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Chewy said:

While all that maybe true, we are already in the premier league and they aren’t. Irrespective of squad investment, the odds are stacked in favour of a premier league side not getting relegated v a championship side getting promoted.

The next obvious difference is we have a premier league squad and they don’t. Strip out the loans in Lampards season, that squad have been nowhere near good enough for years. You’d therefore think it will cost a lot more to upgrade their squad than the difference in the initial purchase price.

So it’ll cost a lot more and have a much higher risk of having premier league status. 
I do think it’s fair to question why Derby would be seen as a better investment than us from a cold, hard business perspective.

 

 

That isn't a cold hard business perspective.

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Charlie Wayman

Charlie Wayman

Posted
Posted

It is possible that Gao has changed his mind. With Saints playing well and hitting the high notes, our value as a club must be rising by the day. Of course he would want out of a relegation haunted team with no money available to improve matters but a winning team attracting attention presents a whole new set of possibilities for him. Maybe his £200m is looking a bit more affordable.

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