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I don’t think the whole idea of lucrative international friendlies is going to appeal to many English top 6 fans. I can’t see many rushing to get a PPV subscription to watch Arsenal vs Shanghai Rovers at 7am UK time.

I appreciate keeping their domestic fans happy isn’t the motivation of the big clubs any more, but maybe this idea will wake some more of those fans up to the flaws in clubs just getting richer and richer.

I can’t see English fans being all that interested in a super league with no jeopardy of relegation either. Surely it would just be dull. Ultimately, I think dull competition will make it less profitable for the billionaire owners of these clubs. The Premier League is only the richest league in the world for 2 reasons. It has celebrity players and it’s more competitive than other elite leagues.

I think English top 6 fans protesting (socially distanced obvs) would be the best way to stop this direction (like how Man United fans stopped the Sky purchase). Time to cheer on the top 6 fans! 😳

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5 hours ago, Matthew Le God said:

No they wouldn't. The current system allows Saints to have a wage bill and transfer budget that blows many large European teams out of the water for transfers. Remove the big 6 from the PL and Saints would see a huge drop in wage bill and budget.

Could be the end of average players being on big wages (i.e Long 60k per week)........which isn't a bad thing.

Anyway, reading the fallout of all this can't see it going ahead.

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I really don't know enough about football to contribute much to this thread except for one thing:  Leicester almost being relegated and then winning the next season. The current competition allows this to happen (albeit very, very rarely). Would this ever be realistic under the proposal where the big clubs will just get more powerful and it is just a case of what order the top five or six come in?  If that happened I could find plenty of other things to do with my time. 

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4 hours ago, Jeremy said:

I really don't know enough about football to contribute much to this thread except for one thing:  Leicester almost being relegated and then winning the next season. The current competition allows this to happen (albeit very, very rarely). Would this ever be realistic under the proposal where the big clubs will just get more powerful and it is just a case of what order the top five or six come in?  If that happened I could find plenty of other things to do with my time. 

No it won't. To add to that, no team getting promoted will have any prospect of being competitive because the parachute payments will end meaning they will struggle to sign players. 

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22 hours ago, Saint86 said:

I also have that niggle in my mind that our new American owners (waiting in the wings) would want us to agree to this.

It will be absolutely fatal for the competitiveness of the league. Obviously teams like Saints/Everton/Wolves, and of course Leicester, have rattled them in recent years. It is already extremely difficult for teams to challenge the top 4/6 as it is, but these changes are designed to absolutely close the door and bolt it shut.

It should be obvious to everyone that the giving a majority vote down to 6 (the top 6) is just tying a noose around the neck of any other club that votes for it. The first thing that goes will be any fairness in tv money distribution. Easy to do when the European 6 can all just vote to take as much as they want, or organise private TV deals.

Its also telling that they want to be allowed to hoover up more top talent on loan. Basically stripping other clubs of their rising talents, whilst making money (loan fees/sales) in the process.

Also the changes to income that are already proposed (by default) will harm all other clubs outside of Europe. They'll get reduced TV money, reduced league cup prize money, and reduced attendance figures for the season across the board. Meanwhile you can bet the top European clubs will be arranging more and more lucrative tv deals for European competitions and foreign friendlies.

Honestly, i know people laugh at this view. But i think they should all be invited to join a European super league and with no promotion/relegation - cut them off and let them go. If you put clubs like Arsenal, Barcelona, Madrid (x2), United, Spurs, Dortmund, Juventus, PSG, Chelsea, Monaco, Inter etc etc etc all into the same league it will lead to the dissatisfaction of 75% of their fanbases. Only 1 or 2 can challenge for that title. And some of them are destined to be the Fulham or Norwich of that world. It is absolutely doomed to failure. Those clubs exist at that size because their respective football leagues can support them. Put them all in the same league and some will wither quite rapidly. United fan's are unhappy now, imagine what it will be like when they're at the bottom of the table? Ditto Arsenal fans, they demanded Wenger was sacked because he could only get them 4th...

Kick them out, and let the rest of us enjoy a competitive league with teams like Saints, Villa, Leeds, Notts Forest, Everton, Newcastle, West Ham, Leicester, Wolves etc.

Good post. Very sad that obscene amounts of money have tainted the lovely game of football.

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13 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Do you really think it’ll end up being just them?
 

They’re not stupid, they can’t play each other over & over. They’ll be looking for other “franchise’s “ to suppliant them.
 

First up, Everton. Are they going to turn it down, not with a new stadium & the owner they have. London’s big enough for another one, The dildo brothers, for all their big words, won’t turn it down. Midlands, needs a franchise, Villa. They’ll go all out for Rangers & Celtic, so a team from Cardiff makes sense. They can basically cherry pick the clubs they want & start afresh.  It’ll be like the NFL.

Liverpool

City

Utd

Chelsea

Arsenal

Spurs

Everton

Villa

Newcastle

Leeds 

West Ham (or London Utd) 

Cardiff

Rangers

Celtic 

Belfast 
 

That’s a league of 15 which gives them plenty of time to play in an extended Champions league & also fit in a few friendlies. Can you see any of the non  big 6 turning it down? 
 

Of course we’ll enjoy battling it out with the new big 6. Leicester, Palace, West Brom, Wolves, Sheffield Utd & Brighton. 

 

That idea would be duller and more pointless than the current Premier League. Take away relegation and all but the big six will literally have nothing to play for. I would take being in a competitive league system with the other 80 clubs in a heartbeat over that. I'm pretty sure the fans of all those clubs involved would hate it as well, even Man Utd's fans would get bored of watching their reserves stuff Belfast (LOL) or Cardiff 8-0 every season.

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14 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Do you really think it’ll end up being just them?
 

They’re not stupid, they can’t play each other over & over. They’ll be looking for other “franchise’s “ to suppliant them.
 

First up, Everton. Are they going to turn it down, not with a new stadium & the owner they have. London’s big enough for another one, The dildo brothers, for all their big words, won’t turn it down. Midlands, needs a franchise, Villa. They’ll go all out for Rangers & Celtic, so a team from Cardiff makes sense. They can basically cherry pick the clubs they want & start afresh.  It’ll be like the NFL.

Liverpool

City

Utd

Chelsea

Arsenal

Spurs

Everton

Villa

Newcastle

Leeds 

West Ham (or London Utd) 

Cardiff

Rangers

Celtic 

Belfast 
 

That’s a league of 15 which gives them plenty of time to play in an extended Champions league & also fit in a few friendlies. Can you see any of the non  big 6 turning it down? 
 

Of course we’ll enjoy battling it out with the new big 6. Leicester, Palace, West Brom, Wolves, Sheffield Utd & Brighton. 

 

16 is a better number though, so everyone has a game each week. Enter the "South Coast Saints" under our new American ownership... 

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14 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Do you really think it’ll end up being just them?
 

They’re not stupid, they can’t play each other over & over. They’ll be looking for other “franchise’s “ to suppliant them.
 

First up, Everton. Are they going to turn it down, not with a new stadium & the owner they have. London’s big enough for another one, The dildo brothers, for all their big words, won’t turn it down. Midlands, needs a franchise, Villa. They’ll go all out for Rangers & Celtic, so a team from Cardiff makes sense. They can basically cherry pick the clubs they want & start afresh.  It’ll be like the NFL.

Liverpool

City

Utd

Chelsea

Arsenal

Spurs

Everton

Villa

Newcastle

Leeds 

West Ham (or London Utd) 

Cardiff

Rangers

Celtic 

Belfast 
 

That’s a league of 15 which gives them plenty of time to play in an extended Champions league & also fit in a few friendlies. Can you see any of the non  big 6 turning it down? 
 

Of course we’ll enjoy battling it out with the new big 6. Leicester, Palace, West Brom, Wolves, Sheffield Utd & Brighton. 

 

16 is a better number though, so everyone has a game each week. Enter the "South Coast Saints" under our new American ownership... 

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2 minutes ago, Ivan Katalinic's 'tache said:

16 is a better number though, so everyone has a game each week. Enter the "South Coast Saints" under our new American ownership... 

Surely you mean The Portsmouth Mickey Mouse Marauders. :)

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The fans of the big have all come out unanimously that they are against this, be interesting to see how sway they have or how far they would be willing to go. Also a potential litmus test on how much the Big Clubs actually feel they need their local fans. I have worry they just think they can steamroll them and any that give up or boycott or whatever they can fill with more corporate or 'football tourists', especially if they 'go on tour', and start playing games in other countries like the NFL does which I can imagine is part of their plans. I mean matchday income for clubs like Man Utd is not a huge proportion of their income anyway, they can probably easily cover that loss of income with the more money they would make from negotiating their own TV deals which is a clear objective of this 'plan'.

Would they really care if 20-30k Mancs didn't turn up if they could go to one of those 80-90k plus US NFL stadiums and sell it out with inflated prices? I doubt it.

Still annoying me that our club has said nothing on this, neither has Everton yet. West Ham have come out against it and from what I have seen most of the other PL clubs like Fulham, Brighton, Burnley, Palace etc. have come out against it. 

Also why are we even in this group? Haven't the likes of Villa and Newcastle been in the league longer than us? 

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59 minutes ago, aintforever said:

That idea would be duller and more pointless than the current Premier League. Take away relegation and all but the big six will literally have nothing to play for. I would take being in a competitive league system with the other 80 clubs in a heartbeat over that. I'm pretty sure the fans of all those clubs involved would hate it as well, even Man Utd's fans would get bored of watching their reserves stuff Belfast (LOL) or Cardiff 8-0 every season.

Totally agree with this, it would become utterly pointless. At 48 i think i would reflect on a great football following career of over 40 years and call it a day. Plenty of other things in my life to fill the gaps and certainly have no interest in that type of format. To be honest i rarely watch the Champions league but would always look out for big prem games that dont involve saints. Its the beginning of the end in my opinion. 

Also seeing that most of L1 / L2 charimen seem to be in favour and clearly cant see past the intial big pay out. Golden goose springs to mind.

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59 minutes ago, aintforever said:

That idea would be duller and more pointless than the current Premier League. Take away relegation and all but the big six will literally have nothing to play for. I would take being in a competitive league system with the other 80 clubs in a heartbeat over that. I'm pretty sure the fans of all those clubs involved would hate it as well, even Man Utd's fans would get bored of watching their reserves stuff Belfast (LOL) or Cardiff 8-0 every season.

Totally agree with this, it would become utterly pointless. At 48 i think i would reflect on a great football following career of over 40 years and call it a day. Plenty of other things in my life to fill the gaps and certainly have no interest in that type of format. To be honest i rarely watch the Champions league but would always look out for big prem games that dont involve saints. Its the beginning of the end in my opinion. 

Also seeing that most of L1 / L2 charimen seem to be in favour and clearly cant see past the initial big pay out. Golden goose springs to mind.

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I see the EFL are mainly behind this due to them being skint and wanting the 250mil.

What happens if the premier league spoke to the 14 clubs not in the Top 6 and voted through that proposal, it would take away the money aspect for the EFL and you only need 14 votes to pass a motion in the premier league.

Shove it right up their arses

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19 minutes ago, tajjuk said:

The fans of the big have all come out unanimously that they are against this, be interesting to see how sway they have or how far they would be willing to go. Also a potential litmus test on how much the Big Clubs actually feel they need their local fans. I have worry they just think they can steamroll them and any that give up or boycott or whatever they can fill with more corporate or 'football tourists', especially if they 'go on tour', and start playing games in other countries like the NFL does which I can imagine is part of their plans. I mean matchday income for clubs like Man Utd is not a huge proportion of their income anyway, they can probably easily cover that loss of income with the more money they would make from negotiating their own TV deals which is a clear objective of this 'plan'.

Would they really care if 20-30k Mancs didn't turn up if they could go to one of those 80-90k plus US NFL stadiums and sell it out with inflated prices? I doubt it.

Still annoying me that our club has said nothing on this, neither has Everton yet. West Ham have come out against it and from what I have seen most of the other PL clubs like Fulham, Brighton, Burnley, Palace etc. have come out against it. 

Also why are we even in this group? Haven't the likes of Villa and Newcastle been in the league longer than us? 

It would turn it into something like the American system of team franchises where the games are played purely for the TV audiences (and money). The link to the local communities would be gone forever. 
 

It’s not football any more.

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27 minutes ago, Convict Colony said:

I see the EFL are mainly behind this due to them being skint and wanting the 250mil.

What happens if the premier league spoke to the 14 clubs not in the Top 6 and voted through that proposal, it would take away the money aspect for the EFL and you only need 14 votes to pass a motion in the premier league.

Shove it right up their arses

The sad thing is the £250 million is a decent amount less than the yearly wage bills of Utd, Liverpool, City and Chelsea. What they pay to have international players sat on their bench and too hoover up young talent so they can horde it and sent it out loan, is enough to bail out the ENTIRE Football league. 

Literally the top 6 alone could foot that bill with ease and it would barely impact their finances.  It's basically about half the cost of another Man City Defender. 

As someone above pointed out, whilst they are proposing basically the ability to raise themselves more money by selling off their own games and negotiating the TV deal more in their favour, this bailout to the EFL is supposedly coming from the PL as a whole, and not proportionally based on income but just equal shares so Man Utd with their near £600 million turnover would pay £12.5 million essentially 2% of their turnover.  Whereas for someone like us it would be more like 10% of our turnover.

That is how greedy they are. 

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27 minutes ago, Convict Colony said:

I see the EFL are mainly behind this due to them being skint and wanting the 250mil.

What happens if the premier league spoke to the 14 clubs not in the Top 6 and voted through that proposal, it would take away the money aspect for the EFL and you only need 14 votes to pass a motion in the premier league.

Shove it right up their arses

The sad thing is the £250 million is a decent amount less than the yearly wage bills of Utd, Liverpool, City and Chelsea. What they pay to have international players sat on their bench and too hoover up young talent so they can horde it and sent it out loan, is enough to bail out the ENTIRE Football league. 

Literally the top 6 alone could foot that bill with ease and it would barely impact their finances.  It's basically about half the cost of another Man City Defender. 

As someone above pointed out, whilst they are proposing basically the ability to raise themselves more money by selling off their own games and negotiating the TV deal more in their favour, this bailout to the EFL is supposedly coming from the PL as a whole, and not proportionally based on income but just equal shares so Man Utd with their near £600 million turnover would pay £12.5 million essentially 2% of their turnover.  Whereas for someone like us it would be more like 10% of our turnover.

That is how greedy they are. 

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2 hours ago, wild-saint said:

Also seeing that most of L1 / L2 charimen seem to be in favour and clearly cant see past the initial big pay out. Golden goose springs to mind.

They don't have a choice as the alternative is going bust. As one of the papers said yesterday - What Liverpool and Man Utd are effectively doing is offering a drowning man a life-belt, but on the condition that they lose their right to vote. Absolutely disgusting behaviour.

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Looks to me that most fans are against this, thankfully that includes many of ours.

What was shocking though, was having looked at the thread on the UI, Nick Illingsworth seems to have given it a wide berth, he normally can’t wait to gush over all things Liverpool 🤔

https://www.fansnetwork.co.uk/football/southampton/forum/263839/liverpool-and-united-back-project-big-picture-overhaul-of-english-football/#25

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16 hours ago, Matthew Le God said:

No they wouldn't. The current system allows Saints to have a wage bill and transfer budget that blows many large European teams out of the water for transfers. Remove the big 6 from the PL and Saints would see a huge drop in wage bill and budget.

Doesn't matter. The other teams in the league we'd be left playing in would also see the same drop in wages/budget, so we'd be in a level playing field (ignoring bigger incomes from bigger crowds at some clubs).  Wherever the Big6 end up would be where the "superstars" would end end up playing, but we'd be playing in a league where fans of every club could start each season thinking they had a chance of winning the thing.

I know which one I'd prefer us to play in

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3 hours ago, tajjuk said:

The fans of the big have all come out unanimously that they are against this, be interesting to see how sway they have or how far they would be willing to go. Also a potential litmus test on how much the Big Clubs actually feel they need their local fans. I have worry they just think they can steamroll them and any that give up or boycott or whatever they can fill with more corporate or 'football tourists', especially if they 'go on tour', and start playing games in other countries like the NFL does which I can imagine is part of their plans. I mean matchday income for clubs like Man Utd is not a huge proportion of their income anyway, they can probably easily cover that loss of income with the more money they would make from negotiating their own TV deals which is a clear objective of this 'plan'.

Would they really care if 20-30k Mancs didn't turn up if they could go to one of those 80-90k plus US NFL stadiums and sell it out with inflated prices? I doubt it.

Still annoying me that our club has said nothing on this, neither has Everton yet. West Ham have come out against it and from what I have seen most of the other PL clubs like Fulham, Brighton, Burnley, Palace etc. have come out against it. 

Also why are we even in this group? Haven't the likes of Villa and Newcastle been in the league longer than us? 

Perhaps it might be because we may have an American owner? Safety in numbers. 

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On 13/10/2020 at 11:09, Saint86 said:

I also have that niggle in my mind that our new American owners (waiting in the wings) would want us to agree to this.

It will be absolutely fatal for the competitiveness of the league. Obviously teams like Saints/Everton/Wolves, and of course Leicester, have rattled them in recent years. It is already extremely difficult for teams to challenge the top 4/6 as it is, but these changes are designed to absolutely close the door and bolt it shut.

It should be obvious to everyone that the giving a majority vote down to 6 (the top 6) is just tying a noose around the neck of any other club that votes for it. The first thing that goes will be any fairness in tv money distribution. Easy to do when the European 6 can all just vote to take as much as they want, or organise private TV deals.

Its also telling that they want to be allowed to hoover up more top talent on loan. Basically stripping other clubs of their rising talents, whilst making money (loan fees/sales) in the process.

Also the changes to income that are already proposed (by default) will harm all other clubs outside of Europe. They'll get reduced TV money, reduced league cup prize money, and reduced attendance figures for the season across the board. Meanwhile you can bet the top European clubs will be arranging more and more lucrative tv deals for European competitions and foreign friendlies.

Honestly, i know people laugh at this view. But i think they should all be invited to join a European super league and with no promotion/relegation - cut them off and let them go. If you put clubs like Arsenal, Barcelona, Madrid (x2), United, Spurs, Dortmund, Juventus, PSG, Chelsea, Monaco, Inter etc etc etc all into the same league it will lead to the dissatisfaction of 75% of their fanbases. Only 1 or 2 can challenge for that title. And some of them are destined to be the Fulham or Norwich of that world. It is absolutely doomed to failure. Those clubs exist at that size because their respective football leagues can support them. Put them all in the same league and some will wither quite rapidly. United fan's are unhappy now, imagine what it will be like when they're at the bottom of the table? Ditto Arsenal fans, they demanded Wenger was sacked because he could only get them 4th...

Kick them out, and let the rest of us enjoy a competitive league with teams like Saints, Villa, Leeds, Notts Forest, Everton, Newcastle, West Ham, Leicester, Wolves etc.

Excellent post. I wonder how the fans of Arsenal would react to being the perennial bottom club every season. Relegation eventually would be a blessed relief. I for one would welcome a league without the big six....

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4 hours ago, tajjuk said:

 

Also why are we even in this group? Haven't the likes of Villa and Newcastle been in the league longer than us? 

This is only Villa's second season back in the PL. We are already the 9th longest serving members despite only getting promoted in 2012.

Not that that should give us any special power of course. The whole thing is a disgrace.

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Good, 3 sneaky bastards caught out trying to push their own interests through.

And I'm fairly sure Rick Parry still has his links with Liverpool too, all very suss and I'm glad everyone saw sense in the end. It was a non-starter.

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Had absolutely no chance of flying that one. Part of what's good about the current voting structure is that it stops daft ideas like that one.

I guess they'll start talking about a European breakaway league again now.

The chance of a European breakaway league was already pretty remote and an empty threat before COVID.

Between the risk of legal ramifications over player registration, financial risk of getting it off the ground, and the fans simply not wanting it, not to mention the additional complication of keeping COVID secure a league that's creating travel all over Europe every week... it'll remain an empty threat for the foreseeable future.

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6 hours ago, tajjuk said:

Also why are we even in this group? Haven't the likes of Villa and Newcastle been in the league longer than us? 

The criteria is for longest current spell in the Premier League. Saints are joint 8th for that and so they are above Villa and Newcastle.

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1 hour ago, LuckyNumber7 said:

This is only Villa's second season back in the PL. We are already the 9th longest serving members despite only getting promoted in 2012.

Not that that should give us any special power of course. The whole thing is a disgrace.

I think we are the 8th longest serving, ahead of wham......

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Just now, Matthew Le God said:

Saints are joint 8th along with West Ham as we were promoted in the same season.

But we came up automatically, wham through the play offs, which I think positions us ahead of them.....

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1 minute ago, SW5 SAINT said:

But we came up automatically, wham through the play offs, which I think positions us ahead of them.....

The failed project planned for the 9 longest serving clubs. If two clubs are joint 8th, that fills up the 9 clubs required.

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So, let me get this straight, one of the proposals was that they could decide if a takeover at a club could happen? 

So in theory if Jeff Bezos got bored at Amazon and decided he wanted to buy Saints and make them a global power, they could get together, decide amongst themselves that it wouldn't be in their interest and veto it? 

If that is the case, what fucking arrogance of them to think they should hold that much power over everyone else.  I almost think that those 2 disgusting clubs should be penalised for suggesting such a thing, maybe a 60 point deduction, a transfer ban for 5 years and the owners banned from owning any football club in the UK.

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33 minutes ago, Millbrook Saint said:

So in theory if Jeff Bezos got bored at Amazon and decided he wanted to buy Saints and make them a global power, they could get together, decide amongst themselves that it wouldn't be in their interest and veto it? 

 

That boats sailed already, FFP has seen to that. Aided by the authorities the big clubs have already pulled up the drawbridge. 

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26 minutes ago, Manuel said:

Can anyone explain how "all 20" PL clubs rejected the proposal.  Surely there would have been at least 2 clubs in favour, and probably at least 6?

Politics. They aren't going to push the issue given there's zero chance of it passing.

The whole proposal is very suspicious, do wonder if its essentially a decoy to try & pressure for something more limited

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13 hours ago, Baird of the land said:

Politics. They aren't going to push the issue given there's zero chance of it passing.

The whole proposal is very suspicious, do wonder if its essentially a decoy to try & pressure for something more limited

Was just about to post something similar!

Edited by saintquin
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4 hours ago, Baird of the land said:

Politics. They aren't going to push the issue given there's zero chance of it passing.

The whole proposal is very suspicious, do wonder if its essentially a decoy to try & pressure for something more limited

The rest of us should come up with our own counter proposal. Like give the EFL, grassroots, women, etc... everything to the right of the red line.

spacer.png

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I really can not see this leading to a break off league. As others have said, much of the position of the big clubs comes from their status as big within their own wealthy leagues and within their country. Becoming primary 'losers' in a super league isn't going to help with that.

What is a more likely end goal is the reduction of the prominence of domestic football. Which is pretty much what they are doing anyway with the abolition of the league cup, reduction to 18 teams etc. It leaves a lot more space for an expanded (in games) concurrent champions league.

Edited by Saintandy666
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18 minutes ago, Convict Colony said:

come on bro - whats the snippet about our involvement

But no-one said a word. As the moments passed, Premier League chairman Gary Hoffman, the former banking executive, said that in the circumstances they should move to a vote on rejecting the terms of PBP. It was at that point that Martin Semmens, chief executive of Southampton, one of the clubs bitterly opposed to the power grab outlined in the PBP document, said that it was crucial questions were asked of proposals that many felt threatened the very basis of the league’s success.  

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1 hour ago, SuperSAINT said:

But no-one said a word. As the moments passed, Premier League chairman Gary Hoffman, the former banking executive, said that in the circumstances they should move to a vote on rejecting the terms of PBP. It was at that point that Martin Semmens, chief executive of Southampton, one of the clubs bitterly opposed to the power grab outlined in the PBP document, said that it was crucial questions were asked of proposals that many felt threatened the very basis of the league’s success.  

Semmens is used to this with Gao's lack of statements

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The inevitable will happen and the top 6 will end up in a super league. It is about time all the other clubs showed some steel and rather than them leaving at their own terms and time we should cut them adrift now. It would take balls but the cards are on the table and push them into the unknown.

We will almost certainly be a major victim of the cartel as 18 clubs would mean one poor season and we are gone without parachute payments.

I think Im right in saying that about 10years ago Celtic and Rangers tried something similar and the rest of the Scottish clubs told them to leave. They soon changed their stance.

 

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In the fans feedback meeting last night Martin Semmens said the plan was utter nonsense, disastrous and had no benefits whatsoever to Saints.

He also said there was notification of the proposal to Saints before Sunday and no consultation.

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11 hours ago, angelman said:

I'd guess any connection with a possible takeover is rubbish. It's the Mail trying to boost a flimsy and dubious story.

But yes, we didn't like the Big Picture.

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European super league/tournament is being set up by Perez,Real Madrid president. 
financiers are putting things in place. 
Liverpool and Man Utd...and possibly Arsenal,Chelsea and another from England. 
just been breaking news on Sky. 

Edited by saint lard
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