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16 minutes ago, saint lard said:

European super league/tournament is being set up by Perez,Real Madrid president. 
financiers are putting things in place. 
Liverpool and Man Utd...and possibly Arsenal,Chelsea and another from England. 
just been breaking news on Sky. 

http://news.sky.com/story/top-english-clubs-in-bombshell-talks-to-join-european-premier-league-12109175

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19 minutes ago, saint lard said:

European super league/tournament is being set up by Perez,Real Madrid president. 
financiers are putting things in place. 
Liverpool and Man Utd...and possibly Arsenal,Chelsea and another from England. 
just been breaking news on Sky. 

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/12109174/european-premier-league-liverpool-and-manchester-united-in-talks-for-fifa-backed-tournament

Looks more like FIFA are trying to replace the Champions League and have them in charge of a competition rather than UEFA. Doesn't look like it's about replacing domestic competitions, not yet anyway.

Does feel like that much European club football would interfere with the domestic leagues though, I suspect that was the motivation behind the drive of Project Big Picture to reduce the number of teams to 18.

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They want to scrap League Cup, Community Shield and FA cup replays as well as reducing league fixtures, and increase the amount of games in the champions League format. 

Fucking tossers, don't accept them into the league next season. 

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31 minutes ago, saint lard said:

European super league/tournament is being set up by Perez,Real Madrid president. 
financiers are putting things in place. 
Liverpool and Man Utd...and possibly Arsenal,Chelsea and another from England. 
just been breaking news on Sky. 

UEFA and the national leagues will fight it tooth and nail. It's creating the protected closed shop the big clubs crave, shutting out the possibility of smaller clubs succeeding. The national leagues will be devalued as they will get less TV money and no Euro qualification. It's pure greed.

Personally I've got no interest in seeing relentless matches between "top" Euro teams. The PL as it is has the excitement of the prospect of anyone beating anyone and the whole pyramid gives every club the chance to rise. 

 

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18 minutes ago, Saint_clark said:

They want to scrap League Cup, Community Shield and FA cup replays as well as reducing league fixtures, and increase the amount of games in the champions League format. 

Fucking tossers, don't accept them into the league next season. 

I'd agree. If it happens, kick them out of the PL. The whole idea is just money-grabbing greed and protectionism.

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2 minutes ago, Shroppie said:

UEFA and the national leagues will fight it tooth and nail. It's creating the protected closed shop the big clubs crave, shutting out the possibility of smaller clubs succeeding. The national leagues will be devalued as they will get less TV money and no Euro qualification. It's pure greed.

Personally I've got no interest in seeing relentless matches between "top" Euro teams. The PL as it is has the excitement of the prospect of anyone beating anyone and the whole pyramid gives every club the chance to rise. 

 

Depends on whether it's a competition you have to qualify for. If it is, it's more or less replacing the Champions League. That's not a move I'd be a fan of, but it likely wouldn't change much beyond the music used at the start of the match.

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Surely all this kind of speculation and uncertainty will hamper any potential takeover at SFC?

If there‘s a possibility that the product they thought they were buying into may soon change and potentially impact on things like TV revenue and sponsorship, then probably best to stand back for a bit before committing.

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So looks like the 'founder' members of the league won't be relegated for 20 years.

In effect, a closed shop for the next two decades... can't say that I'd be that interested in watching a league that stale.

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On 12/10/2020 at 19:13, Lord Duckhunter said:

That’s the spirit. Obviously you’re not going to complain when every single half decent player or prospect moves to the new super league and their bloated squads. You won’t be complaining when we’re on some god forsaken internet channel who are paying peanuts, whilst the super league mop up all the tv money. You can bet your bottom dollar tickets will be the same price, as we watch second class clubs and second class players. What’s not to like?  

Guess you were one of those supporters no where to be seen in our L1 days. Not enough glamour for you

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Another plan to make the rich even more invincible, the Premier league and clubs like ours would become financially ruined if this happened.

Clubs our size would have to slash their wage bills by enormous amounts so not sure where that leaves all the players that don’t play for the elite.

Not sure the club left out from our so called big six will be too impressed if five is true.

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Each of the founding teams is expected to earn fees of hundreds of millions of pounds to participate, with clubs such as Manchester United and Real Madrid receiving the biggest sums for joining.

So it wouldn't even be a level playing field to start with, some teams getting paid more than others to participate.

Sounds like it would have as much to do with sport as WWE wrestling.

#ItsNotFootbalAnymore

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53 minutes ago, alehouseboys said:

Surely all this kind of speculation and uncertainty will hamper any potential takeover at SFC?

If there‘s a possibility that the product they thought they were buying into may soon change and potentially impact on things like TV revenue and sponsorship, then probably best to stand back for a bit before committing.

Yep. Given there were reports that the defeated Liverpool/Man Utd plan stalled SFC takeover talks, then something like this is likely to have the same effect, if not more so, one would have thought.

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57 minutes ago, Jimmy_D said:

Depends on whether it's a competition you have to qualify for. If it is, it's more or less replacing the Champions League. That's not a move I'd be a fan of, but it likely wouldn't change much beyond the music used at the start of the match.

The whole point is the founding teams are invited and are protected from relegation for 20 years.

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Just when you thought they couldn’t stoop any lower, they come up with a closed shop competition.  Their greed knows no bounds.

Personally, any club that enters this should be expelled from their domestic leagues.  With the money they will get from the GreedyBastards cup the domestic leagues won’t be competitive.

I don’t watch Champions League as it is.  I definitely wouldn’t pay to watch this either.

I am really angry at this.  I don’t love the game anymore.

 

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The premier league and fa need to grow some balls here and tell all members that any team playing in this so called super league will be expelled from all domestic competitions and any players in those teams will no longer be eligible for the national team.

Doubt they will though, they'll be scratching around, begging the big teams not to leave, trying to protect their little fiefdoms.

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Next week, Liverpool and United will be in talks to merge as one, as the two “super teams” in England, becoming Liverchester United and they will play in their own one team league with no relegations. 

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15 minutes ago, Ted Bates Statue said:

Can't say I'll miss them. And how will their fickle fans put up with teams that struggle to achieve 10th in their super duper league, when they can barely scrape to 4th in the domestic league? 

It will likely be a pretty level playing field financially, but the best players will be more tempted to a lifestyle living in Madrid, Barcelona, Milan, Turin, Paris, Munich, Berlin and London rather than the North West. Bottom 3 every year, Man U, Man C and the scousers. How we'd chuckle...

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Surely the Premier League wouldn't allow dual league membership and surely they wouldn't allow the elite level of English football to have reserve sides playing every game?

 

There's a cultural aspect to this as well. The English football pyramid is a beautiful thing. With the exclusion of of B teams, it allows for a competitive and well attended tiered league setup. Every community has a football club and, for many, it really is their heart and soul as the club has been there for generations. Seeing this collapse would not just be a catastrophy for competitive football; it would be a catastrophy for this country.

Edited by Disco Stu
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The reality is that football is run by people with little care, and in some cases, little understanding of football beyond it being a fairly lucrative business with guaranteed customers. 

Outside our detached owners, our own team at the top is made up of posh boys who probably like rugby or cricket more than football, or at least deep down they do, or that’s what their kids play because football is just for oiks. No problem with that but it just exemplifies that those running football don’t love the game on a deep level. When that’s the case, it’s only about money, whatever they say. 

A European league run with playoffs like the big us leagues would be an answer but those leagues developed that way as they got bigger. A European league is a contraction and as many point out, you can only have one winner and that means 15 other teams used to winning don’t. They are underestimating why people not in the communities nearby like those teams in the way they do.  

The obvious dream to the big teams is US sport leagues but all American Leagues have population and demographic requirements to host a team in a league (apart from some very traditional teams like Green Bay Packers) and there is way more geographic loyalty.  Each team can sustain itself to a degree because of corporate business, stadium seat purchases and local TV deals. Apart from baseball, every team has to take part in a draft and each team gets a superstar or two, and there are big restrictions on wages paid. 

A European super league wouldn’t necessarily fail but it won’t be the walk in the park the top boys think. I for one would have limited interest and kids aren’t watching like they used to so football might end up alienating its core audiences. 

If it had balls, the premier league would call these teams bluff, and as someone suggested, say they need to leave all competitions in the UK. They won’t and ultimately, these clubs will get a great share of the TV revenue. 
 


 

 

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15 hours ago, Shroppie said:

I'd agree. If it happens, kick them out of the PL. The whole idea is just money-grabbing greed and protectionism.

I agree with this sentiment, but the thing that worries me the most is the possible new alliance emerging with Project Big Picture. It seems - with Rick Parry refusing to deny it - that the “big six” would consider leaving the Premier League and rejoining the EFL.

Were that to happen, it would leave the “small 14” well and truly fecked.

Seems to me that the “small 14” need to urgently build alliances with the Championship and League One clubs to thwart this madness.

Edited by SaintBobby
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37 minutes ago, SaintBobby said:

 It seems - with Rick Parry refusing to deny it - that the “big six” would consider leaving the Premier League and rejoining the EFL.

Where have you read this?

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If this lot were to break away - then quite rightly they deserve to be expelled, denied the right to play in the PL or EFL. If this “super league” were to turn into a flop and fall apart, then this lot should not be allowed to breeze back to where they were, but all the way back down to the bottom of the pyramid and earn their place eventually at the top table. That way grass roots football will get the money they need through home gate receipts and the exposure that the “big 6” being in their league would bring.

When the Glaziers took over Man U and mortgaged the club to finance the take over,  the Uproar from the true United fans was immense and a new football team was spawned FC United (?) 1000’s of Man U fans turned their back on the Glaziers and went off and supported this FC  United who gained the right to play in one of the Northern Leagues - most Chairmen of the teams in this league weren’t too happy  with the seemingly easy entry into their league. Pretty certain one of the most vocal was the chairman of Leek Town - that was until 2nd or 3rd match in, they hosted this FC United. On match day Leek Towns little ground was bulging at the seams as 1000’s of FC United descended upon them - and fair play the LT chairman the following week held his hands up and admitted he was wrong in his initial objections as the gate receipts from the huge additional support FC United brought with them had pretty much put the club in the black for the next few years.

 

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2 hours ago, CB Fry said:

Where have you read this?

I believe it was the Athletic - possibly also (merely referenced) on Sky Sports or BBC Sports app. Parry didn’t say that the big six would leave and join EFL, he just refused to deny that it had been discussed.

It stands to reason- you make most of the 72 non-EPL clubs into a set of desperate welfare cases and then present it as a fait accompli to the remaining 14 Premier League clubs. It’s not as if a standalone league of Saints, Burnley, Fulham and Sheff Utd plus ten other similar clubs is going to be a very credible prospect.

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2 minutes ago, aintforever said:

What a load of nonsense.

Seems a pretty sensible option from their narrow point of view. Their ballache at the moment is 7 smaller EPL clubs vetoing their desires.

If the big six left and linked up with the other 72, the other 14 would surely have to follow?

The big six could rewrite the rule book as part of a new EFL. So many EFL clubs are now teetering on the brink that they’d agree to virtually anything as long as they have a cash handout to survive.

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It seems to me that a European Super League is becoming more and more inevitable;  in some respects it is surprising that it hasn't happened already.

Of course the timing of this new proposal is terrible in the midst of the pandemic but the disarray and disruption caused by the C19 virus provides the perfect cover for the opportunists to promote them. Exploit uncertainty! At the root of it all is money and greed and it is no coincidence that US banks and financial institutions are deeply involved with US owned clubs to the forefront. 

The problem of course is not that English and other countries national leagues cannot survive if dominant rich clubs leave national leagues but it will be at crippling cost as TV revenues and big brand advertisers migrate to the new super league. So while it may appeal to the little Englander spirit in many of us to get back to more competitive national leagues, in reality it would likely be calamitous as clubs are reduced to existing on match day attendances and local advertisers for their revenues.

 

This is a direct threat and challenge to the Premier League and they could find themselves being cast in the unlikely role of potential saviours of English football but if this proposal gains traction it seems there is little they can do to stop it. Football clubs are private enterprises and can do whatever they think is in their best interests. Perhaps the best the PL might expect to achieve is to link to and argue for promotion and relegation from top national leagues to the new super league to keep national football relevant.

 

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1 hour ago, SaintBobby said:

So many EFL clubs are now teetering on the brink that they’d agree to virtually anything as long as they have a cash handout to survive.

But haven't the Prem said they will help them out? Once that happens I'm not sure what motivation any of them would have to hand over complete control to the big six - would be turkeys voting for Xmas.

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16 hours ago, Daft Kerplunk said:

The reality is that football is run by people with little care, and in some cases, little understanding of football beyond it being a fairly lucrative business with guaranteed customers. 

Outside our detached owners, our own team at the top is made up of posh boys who probably like rugby or cricket more than football, or at least deep down they do, or that’s what their kids play because football is just for oiks. No problem with that but it just exemplifies that those running football don’t love the game on a deep level. When that’s the case, it’s only about money, whatever they say. 

A European league run with playoffs like the big us leagues would be an answer but those leagues developed that way as they got bigger. A European league is a contraction and as many point out, you can only have one winner and that means 15 other teams used to winning don’t. They are underestimating why people not in the communities nearby like those teams in the way they do.  

The obvious dream to the big teams is US sport leagues but all American Leagues have population and demographic requirements to host a team in a league (apart from some very traditional teams like Green Bay Packers) and there is way more geographic loyalty.  Each team can sustain itself to a degree because of corporate business, stadium seat purchases and local TV deals. Apart from baseball, every team has to take part in a draft and each team gets a superstar or two, and there are big restrictions on wages paid. 

A European super league wouldn’t necessarily fail but it won’t be the walk in the park the top boys think. I for one would have limited interest and kids aren’t watching like they used to so football might end up alienating its core audiences. 

If it had balls, the premier league would call these teams bluff, and as someone suggested, say they need to leave all competitions in the UK. They won’t and ultimately, these clubs will get a great share of the TV revenue. 
 


 

 

Jesus christ does everything have to boil down to this, I've never heard such nonsense, I have no doubt the owners have little interest in football and are completely detached, but don't try and turn it into a class war.  The americans who own liverpool and man u are probably not 'posh boys', the owners of west ham are probably not that posh.  It has nothing to do with people being posh, it has all to do with people being greedy, posh or not people can be greedy. 

I hate this black and white view where posh = horrible and uncaring, whereas working class = caring and nice, the same as tory = horrible, labour = nice.  I've met people on both sides of the spectrum and they both have their equal share of good and bad.  Painting everyone in stereotypes is nothing but devisive.

Anyway rant over, pretty much everything else you write is spot on.  The premier league and fa need to grow a pair and warn the big clubs off doing this.

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20 hours ago, Millbrook Saint said:

The premier league and fa need to grow some balls here and tell all members that any team playing in this so called super league will be expelled from all domestic competitions and any players in those teams will no longer be eligible for the national team.

Doubt they will though, they'll be scratching around, begging the big teams not to leave, trying to protect their little fiefdoms.

Course they’ll bend over backwards to try & keep the big clubs, who wouldn’t. People are deluded if they think the game can kick out the biggest clubs and still prosper. It’ll be George & Ringo kicking out Lennon & McCartney & expecting things to remain rosy. 
 

Advertising,TV money, the best players, new investors and new generations of fans will all gravitate towards the super league. Within 20 years the Premier league minus the big 6, will be a shell of what it is now. And god knows what the lower leagues will look like. 

Edited by Lord Duckhunter
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10 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Within 20 years the Premier league minus the big 6, will be a shell of what it is now. And god knows what the lower leagues will look like. 

Probably be more competitive and entertaining IMO, there will just be less money sloshing around. I probably enjoyed football more in the years before the Premier League millions than I do now anyway.

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9 minutes ago, aintforever said:

Probably be more competitive and entertaining IMO, there will just be less money sloshing around. I probably enjoyed football more in the years before the Premier League millions than I do now anyway.

Well the top league will resemble the Championship I would guess, can't argue with that. Always competitive every season! 

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On 20/10/2020 at 14:32, Jimmy_D said:

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/12109174/european-premier-league-liverpool-and-manchester-united-in-talks-for-fifa-backed-tournament

Looks more like FIFA are trying to replace the Champions League and have them in charge of a competition rather than UEFA. Doesn't look like it's about replacing domestic competitions, not yet anyway.

Does feel like that much European club football would interfere with the domestic leagues though, I suspect that was the motivation behind the drive of Project Big Picture to reduce the number of teams to 18.

But they're talking about up to 34 more games held mid-week. What do big clubs play in domestic and CL games - 13 to the final of CL, 6 to final of EFL and 6 to final of FA Cup? Scrap those and replace with Euro PL, and that's still 9 more games. Get rid of 2 PL teams and that gets it down to 5 more.  etc etc

The Champ League being scrapped frankly is neither here nor there for us, given that we have pretty much no chance of qualifying.

What seems really tedious about it, is that the founding members are going to avoid relegation for 20 years. But not sure many, apart from the owners are in favour - guess that's one of the risks when you sell to foreign owners - they don't really care about the domestic game if it gets in the way of profit.

This tweet sums it up and hopefully will prevail. 

 

Edited by angelman
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2 minutes ago, skintsaint said:

Well the top league will resemble the Championship I would guess, can't argue with that. Always competitive every season! 

Plus clubs like Newcastle, West Ham and Aston Villa all had higher attendances than Chelsea last season so the idea that there is this 'big 6' and everyone else is a small club living off their popularity is just nonsense.

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1 hour ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Course they’ll bend over backwards to try & keep the big clubs, who wouldn’t. People are deluded if they think the game can kick out the biggest clubs and still prosper. It’ll be George & Ringo kicking out Lennon & McCartney & expecting things to remain rosy. 
 

Advertising,TV money, the best players, new investors and new generations of fans will all gravitate towards the super league. Within 20 years the Premier league minus the big 6, will be a shell of what it is now. And god knows what the lower leagues will look like. 

Do you really think keeping the big 6 in the premier league will keep things the way they are, what will happen is sky will focus it's coverage on the super league, it will be slow at first, gradual steps so it's less noticeable, the premier league money will end up diverted to the super league, the big 6 will treat the premier league as a training league to blood their players, who cares if they come 1st or 15th, they'll still be in Europe.  Interest in the premier league will wain as sky push the super league whilst the premier ends up being like the championship.  Tv income will drop as the super league will be promoted around the world.

New fans who watch sky will only see the super league games on the prime tv slots, whilst the premier league will get less coverage.

No. the FA and Premier League absolutely need to grow some balls, they have the opportunity to do that now whilst their product is the most popular in the world, fans of the big 6 won't allow them to be expelled from the league, give it a few years of the super league coverage, the clubs won't care about a few hardcore local fans as the 'new' fan will have been brought up on the super league

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21 hours ago, aintforever said:

But haven't the Prem said they will help them out? Once that happens I'm not sure what motivation any of them would have to hand over complete control to the big six - would be turkeys voting for Xmas.

I don’t think it’s a one shot game. I hope the Big Six fail in their objectives, but if I was thinking how they might succeed, I’d link back up with the EFL and offer those 72 clubs a modest slice of TV revenues/overall incomes. 5% or such like. This is a long-term lifeline for the strugglers in those divisions. You then turn to the 14 smaller PL clubs and say “take it or leave it”.

This is why I think the “small 14” need to build alliances fast - especially with the Championship and bigger teams in L1. 

Edited by SaintBobby
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7 hours ago, SaintBobby said:

I don’t think it’s a one shot game. I hope the Big Six fail in their objectives, but if I was thinking how they might succeed, I’d link back up with the EFL and offer those 72% clubs a modest slice of TV revenues/overall incomes. 5% or such like. This is a long-term lifeline for the strugglers in those divisions. You then turn to the 14 smaller PL clubs and say “take it or leave it”.

This is why I think the “small 14” need to build alliances fast - especially with the Championship and bigger teams in L1. 

We should adopt one of the unambitious L1 clubs as a feeder/B team, someone like Portsmouth maybe.

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9 hours ago, steve green said:

We should adopt one of the unambitious L1 clubs as a feeder/B team, someone like Portsmouth maybe.

Think we may starve if they were our feeder club.

Who was the last good player they produced?

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Talking about feeder clubs, I have always thought that a link up with Le Havre might do us some good.
Twin cities (or at least used to be) and Le Havre have never been much above French Second Division but have produced some decent players through their ranks over the years.


 

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Look at the top 6 right now, the only 'top' club in there is liverpool, this is exactly why the big teams want a super league, to make the league placings irrelevant to playing in the champions league, they don't want upstarts like Southampton, Villa or Everton getting their hands on 'their money'

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28 minutes ago, Millbrook Saint said:

Look at the top 6 right now, the only 'top' club in there is liverpool, this is exactly why the big teams want a super league, to make the league placings irrelevant to playing in the champions league, they don't want upstarts like Southampton, Villa or Everton getting their hands on 'their money'

We are 6 games in...expect will be business as usual come the end of the season.

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24 minutes ago, skintsaint said:

We are 6 games in...expect will be business as usual come the end of the season.

What is usual though? Go back a few years and Man City were 2 leagues below us in League 1, go back a few more and Chelsea were a league below us. Tottenham haven't won the league for 60 years.

There are a whole load of clubs that could be a 'big six' with the right owners.

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IIRC I think the Athletic said the Europe's elite clubs do this about every time the Champions league deals get renewed to basically force UEFA into conceding more money and power to them.  I think they said it goes all the way back to the creation of the champs league from the European cup where you had the group stages so big clubs didn't go out in the first round.

Further proposed changes to the Champs league are coming and they proposing 2 group stages I think, even possibly two divisions where certain teams are basically guaranteed to play (because it will be based on previous performance) and the new Europa League 2 or whatever it is called basically acts as qualification. 

It's the same with like the seedings, done to keep the big teams in the competition and make it hard for the newcomers to get through. 

Expect the format changes to the Champions league coming in a few years to basically favour the big clubs even more. 

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