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1 hour ago, saintwbu said:

Black Lives Matter surely has to be one of, if not the greatest political group name of all time. It’s impossible for someone to say they don’t agree with Black Lives Matter without someone immediately asking them why they do not believe that black lives matter. Masterful. 

Agreed. 

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4 hours ago, Big M said:

I'm astounded at the grief the Millwall fans are getting by their own club for booing at both teams yesterday for taking the knee.I thought football was about sport,an escape for all sorts of people from the community not about political beliefs and virtue signalling.The idiots condemning Millwall fans need to realise football fans want to watch football not have political statements rammed down their throats.Im sick of it to be honest Thoughts.

Showing you true colours with a first post - how strange!

It should have been equality/fairness for all rather than an unfortunate slogan associated with a political organisation. Still two wrongs don't make a right. 

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http://twitter.com/PaulEmbery/status/1335353792360030215

 

Quote

Millwall fans didn’t boo because they are racist. They have taken many black players to their hearts over the years. They booed because what began as a single act of solidarity has, as usual, turned into a protracted moral lecture. That is what irritates people. Understand it.

 

Edited by Nolan
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4 hours ago, Big M said:

I'm astounded at the grief the Millwall fans are getting by their own club for booing at both teams yesterday for taking the knee.I thought football was about sport,an escape for all sorts of people from the community not about political beliefs and virtue signalling.The idiots condemning Millwall fans need to realise football fans want to watch football not have political statements rammed down their throats.Im sick of it to be honest Thoughts.

Person who thinks football should be an escape and not political beliefs decides to create a new account on a football forum to spout off about political beliefs.

Whatever you think of the organisation and even the gesture, booing it and defending people who boo it is idiotic at the very least.

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43 minutes ago, East Kent Saint said:

Football should have shown their support under the "Kick it out" banner to take the political slant out of their gesture of support . Employing more non white coaches , managers and board members etc would be a better move for credability .

Why should clubs employ more non-white people? Do you think they are more deserving of these jobs than white people? If you believe the hiring process is unfair then by all means change the process. Employing people solely for the colour of their skin is positive discrimination and is by definition, racist. 

Black players are massively over represented in many other fields, and players in the Premier League are over represented too. 

I think clubs agreeing to a quota of white players would be another good step to eradicating racism in the country. 

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2 minutes ago, Griffo said:

Employing people solely for the colour of their skin is positive discrimination and is by definition, racist. 

 

Correct 

As Dr King said people should not be judged by the colour of their skin, but by the content of their character. Giving someone a job because they’re black is as bad as giving someone a job because they’re not. Both are judging someone by their colour, not their character. 

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3 hours ago, View From The Top said:

Those who scream abuse at Irish players who won't wear a poppy on their shirts are the same sort of cunts who boo players for an anti racism gesture.

Anyone who believes taking a stance against racism, like players taking a knee, is virtue signalling is simply a racist without the balls to say it out loud.

Only thing worse than a racist is a racist coward.

Critical thinking has been lost with this one.

It is entirely normal to totally disagree with a political movement and/or the tactic being used, without actually being a racist.

Edited by AlexLaw76
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12 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Critical thinking has been lost with this one.

It is entirely normal to totally disagree with a political movement and/or the tactic being used, without actually being a racist.

True, but to disagree so strongly that you boo your own players for making an anti-racism gesture - I dunno. 

I get that people think it's pointless and virtual signalling can be a bit annoying, but would any sane, non racist Saints fan boo Theo Walcott and Ryan Bertrand if they chose to make an anti-racism gesture?

 

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6 hours ago, Big M said:

I'm astounded at the grief the Millwall fans are getting by their own club for booing at both teams yesterday for taking the knee.I thought football was about sport,an escape for all sorts of people from the community not about political beliefs and virtue signalling.The idiots condemning Millwall fans need to realise football fans want to watch football not have political statements rammed down their throats.Im sick of it to be honest Thoughts.

I agree with you that many people think enough is enough. Millwall fans have never been shrinking violets. Sport, politics and religion should never be mixed because people can have such strong opinions on all 3 subjects. For me, ALL lives matter. 

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I agree with the opinions expressed that "Kick racism out" was a perfectly acceptable slogan to be displayed around grounds and signalling a club's policy that encompassed retribution towards fans that behaved in an unacceptable manner via racist chants and gestures. However, if fans choose to show their dissent towards this ridiculous gesture of "taking a knee" by booing it, they can argue that it is an expression of opinion against a Marxist political movement whose aim is to defund the police and destroy capitalism. The FA have badly misjudged this situation and if they wished to virtue-signal their wokeness by suggesting that all clubs undergo this ridiculous gesture connected to BLM before every match, they should have had the sense to have dropped it before stadiums were allowed to admit fans, as it was clearly going to be the case that it would cause dissent.

In the same vein, but in a different environment, I understand that the BBC in their flagship Christmas Day entertainment, are featuring a new episode of "The Vicar of Dibley", wherein they have the eponymous Dawn French Vicar giving a sermon on black lives matter, and "taking a knee". Needless to say, I will not be wasting my time watching this woke lefty crap. And then the supposedly unbiased BBc wonder why there is a growing campaign to have them defunded with viewers deserting them in droves. Of course, the big-eared crisp salesman had to stick his oar into this Millwall booing BLM episode too, but although he is one of the BBC's top paid presenters, apparently he is immune from criticism or rebuke from the BBC for expressing his political views on social media, as he isn't directly an employee. 

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51 minutes ago, aintforever said:

True, but to disagree so strongly that you boo your own players for making an anti-racism gesture - I dunno. 

I get that people think it's pointless and virtual signalling can be a bit annoying, but would any sane, non racist Saints fan boo Theo Walcott and Ryan Bertrand if they chose to make an anti-racism gesture?

 

Are you unable to seperate the fact that people can support anti racism campaigns - like Kick it out - but, at the same time, not agree with a political movement that has some crackpot stated goals / aspirations.

'Taking the knee' has become synonymous with BLM.  BLM is the movement people are objecting to, not the anti racism sentiments.

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1 hour ago, aintforever said:

True, but to disagree so strongly that you boo your own players for making an anti-racism gesture - I dunno. 

I get that people think it's pointless and virtual signalling can be a bit annoying, but would any sane, non racist Saints fan boo Theo Walcott and Ryan Bertrand if they chose to make an anti-racism gesture?

 

What about the black power fist, are we allowed to boo players doing that, or is that also  considered an anti racism gesture? 

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11 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

What about the black power fist, are we allowed to boo players doing that, or is that also  considered an anti racism gesture? 

Surely that is a political gesture and therefore against the FA rules, as with Guardiola being  sanctioned for wearing a yellow ribbon in support of Catalan independence.

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What you also need to remember is when the BLM mob were running around defacing every flag and statue they could get to whilst the police stood back and took a knee it was football fans (including a fair number of Millwall) who turned out in London to put a stop to it. 

Don't be surprised a few months later they react like this. 

For me, over the years football provides great escapism from all this nonsense, time away from politics, have a few beers, turn up at the ground, lose your voice supporting your team (No matter what colour your players are) 

My hope is this knee nonsense is abandoned otherwise we'll see more and more fans booing, I can tell sky and the premier league are determined to keep pushing it so we're destined to come into conflict on the matter. 

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I think the fact that so many people are against something that, despite their protestations, has zero negative impact on their life (nor has the organisation they so rigorously oppose), and a positive impact on others, tells you all you need to know about the size of the problem.

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4 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

Surely that is a political gesture and therefore against the FA rules, as with Guardiola being  sanctioned for wearing a yellow ribbon in support of Catalan independence.

Well let’s hope the FA charge this Derby player who did this yesterday. Perhaps they should fine the club, who also tweeted this image, plus their coach Liam Rosenior who posted it with the words “proud to be black”. 
 

 

F62518A3-DDE3-4177-A4F4-2468AF5C392E.jpeg

Edited by Lord Duckhunter
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3 minutes ago, sydney_saint said:

I think the fact that so many people are against something that, despite their protestations, has zero negative impact on their life (nor has the organisation they so rigorously oppose), and a positive impact on others, tells you all you need to know about the size of the problem.

Unsure what you are suggesting.  Many things do not impact people in their every day lives.  For example, police brutality in the USA, but seems to generate debate over in the UK (for some bizarre reason)

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50 minutes ago, sydney_saint said:

I think the fact that so many people are against something that, despite their protestations, has zero negative impact on their life (nor has the organisation they so rigorously oppose), and a positive impact on others, tells you all you need to know about the size of the problem.

BLM "has zero negative impact" on my life. In fact it has no impact at all, but neither do any of the pro white movements. I don't like seeing footy players feeling obliged to stand/kneel in support of BLM any more/less than I'd want them to be obliged to stand/kneel for any other fringe movement.

Sure, send a message in support of social and racial equality, but anyone thinking that is what BLM stand for does not understand their ideology. 

 

Edited by egg
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18 minutes ago, JRM said:

What you also need to remember is when the BLM mob were running around defacing every flag and statue they could get to whilst the police stood back and took a knee it was football fans (including a fair number of Millwall) who turned out in London to put a stop to it. 

This is an astoundingly ignorant rewriting of history.

The solidarity protests in London attacted a very small handful of idiots (unfortunately, there are always some whatever the cause) but were overwhelmingly peaceful.

The EDL lads or whatever it is they are calling themselves these days organised a counter-protest. Fair enough, that's their right. But when the planned BLM  march for that day was cancelled due to fears of violence, they still turned up, mostly just for a day out on the piss and to have a scrap with whoever would fight them. 

Whatever your beliefs about BLM, Let's not pretend that these knuckle-dragging morons were the good guys.

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48 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Are you unable to seperate the fact that people can support anti racism campaigns - like Kick it out - but, at the same time, not agree with a political movement that has some crackpot stated goals / aspirations.

'Taking the knee' has become synonymous with BLM.  BLM is the movement people are objecting to, not the anti racism sentiments.

The players have made it crystal clear that there is nothing political in their gestures, it's purely anti-racism.

That was long ago, I thought it would have sunk in with even you by now.

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2 hours ago, Griffo said:

Why should clubs employ more non-white people? Do you think they are more deserving of these jobs than white people? If you believe the hiring process is unfair then by all means change the process. Employing people solely for the colour of their skin is positive discrimination and is by definition, racist. 

Black players are massively over represented in many other fields, and players in the Premier League are over represented too. 

I think clubs agreeing to a quota of white players would be another good step to eradicating racism in the country. 

You miss the point entirely , if non white people in football had been given a fair chance then they would be better represented  in football now. We have read endless stories about discrimination in top clubs and this year FA boss Clarke embarrassed the FA by opening his mouth to prove he was a totally out of touch with regard to non white people and women in 2020 . 
I do not support quotas etc just fair chances for all . This is not just a white country problem, just look at India in the past and now ...

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7 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

This is an astoundingly ignorant rewriting of history.

The solidarity protests in London attacted a very small handful of idiots (unfortunately, there are always some whatever the cause) but were overwhelmingly peaceful.

The EDL lads or whatever it is they are calling themselves these days organised a counter-protest. Fair enough, that's their right. But when the planned BLM  march for that day was cancelled due to fears of violence, they still turned up, mostly just for a day out on the piss and to have a scrap with whoever would fight them. 

Whatever your beliefs about BLM, Let's not pretend that these knuckle-dragging morons were the good guys.

The BLM group were out to deface national monuments that hold particularly strong meaning to many of us, the other group only turned out after weeks of the police failing to stop BLM, if there hasn't been such provocative attacks on this nations heritage there would have been no counter protest, simple as that. A military veteran I know attended that day enraged by the acts of vandalism he'd seen in the previous weeks BLM shenanigans. 

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10 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

This is an astoundingly ignorant rewriting of history.

The solidarity protests in London attacted a very small handful of idiots (unfortunately, there are always some whatever the cause) but were overwhelmingly peaceful.

The EDL lads or whatever it is they are calling themselves these days organised a counter-protest. Fair enough, that's their right. But when the planned BLM  march for that day was cancelled due to fears of violence, they still turned up, mostly just for a day out on the piss and to have a scrap with whoever would fight them. 

Whatever your beliefs about BLM, Let's not pretend that these knuckle-dragging morons were the good guys.

Man pictured urinating beside PC Keith Palmer memorial during far right  protest in London | The Independent | The Independent

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3 minutes ago, JRM said:

The BLM group were out to deface national monuments that hold particularly strong meaning to many of us, the other group only turned out after weeks of the police failing to stop BLM, if there hasn't been such provocative attacks on this nations heritage there would have been no counter protest, simple as that. A military veteran I know attended that day enraged by the acts of vandalism he'd seen in the previous weeks BLM shenanigans. 

And how did he feel about some of the lads from his own 'side' throwing Nazi salutes at the Cenotaph and one of them pissing on the memorial to PC Keith Palmer? 

Again, you're rewriting history. You're making it sound like the entire BLM 'mob' were marauding around the streets of London for weeks, defacing every statue and monument they came across, while the police did absolutely nothing, and were only stopped when the brave football lads turned out in force. This narrative is complete horseshit.

Edited by Sheaf Saint
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Clearly there are a number of idiots in both groups of people. Nothing that went on in London over summer was particularly pleasant, not least because of the massive Covid spread it helped to achieve. The EDL, hooligan types, as Sheaf said, certainly were not the ‘good guys’ and are no heroes of mine.

For me this is why it’s perplexing for the anti-racism movement to persist with the BLM slogan. It’s a bit like me launching a campaign for everyone to get vaccinated ASAP and going with the slogan, "Britain First". Why go for that ambiguity, why not disassociate yourself from a movement which you know to be unpopular? 

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2 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

And how did he feel about some of the lads from his own 'side' throwing Nazi salutes at the Cenotaph and one of them pissing on the memorial to PC Keith Palmer? 

If it hadn't been for the attacks on this nations heritage there would have been no counter protest, agree or disagree? How did it make you feel seeing the attempt to set fire to the flag on the cenotaph? 

As for the lad caught short, you write as if he deliberately targeted a memorial, very clearly he had no idea if was even there. Compared to pouring paint over Churchill, clear premeditated deliberate act. 

What this thread does clearly illustrate is how divisive this is, instead of us all United supporting our club it's a topic that will clearly lead to disagreements and arguments. 

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There's a difference between:

1. BLM - The organisation 

2. BLM - The phrase used by the vast majoirty of people as a mean's of raising awareness/speaking about personal/professional/systemic examples of racism et.

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14 minutes ago, Neef said:

There's a difference between:

1. BLM - The organisation 

2. BLM - The phrase used by the vast majoirty of people as a mean's of raising awareness/speaking about personal/professional/systemic examples of racism et.

Pony 

Nobody used the phrase until the group came along. 

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22 minutes ago, JRM said:

If it hadn't been for the attacks on this nations heritage there would have been no counter protest, agree or disagree? How did it make you feel seeing the attempt to set fire to the flag on the cenotaph? 

As for the lad caught short, you write as if he deliberately targeted a memorial, very clearly he had no idea if was even there. Compared to pouring paint over Churchill, clear premeditated deliberate act. 

What this thread does clearly illustrate is how divisive this is, instead of us all United supporting our club it's a topic that will clearly lead to disagreements and arguments. 

“Attacks on this nations heritage”  , our slave trader past , our empirical past you mean ? After the Amritsar massacre, General Dyer , responsible for the killing of several hundred unarmed civilians and injury of hundreds more , was forced into retirement . The British people had a whip round to erect a statue to him but this was vetoed so the £250000 was used to give Dyer a pension for life.

Looking back Churchill could be viewed as racist but his views at the time were not out of step with our attitudes as leaders of a vast empire. 

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BLM are a divisive political group with dangerous ideas that hijacked Floyd’s death. And funny how most of them you see on demos are white!!

It is all really dispiriting.  I feel there’s been a lot of division sown by the identity politics of recent years that became turbocharged over the summer. The sleight of hand in templating  undeniable problems in America onto British society are frankly unjustified. We have come on immeasurably in this area since the 1980s.  And, counter-productively, the emergence of this divisive aggressive brand of identity politics has given a shot in the arm to the moribund rump of racists here who can exploit it in a reactionary way. Issues and inequalities that we would have until quite recently considered to be a class-based are now being racialised. But there’s no discernible "white privilege" on the council estates of Gateshead Sunderland Middlesborough Glasgow etc etc

We’ve gone away from innocent, wide-eyed melting pot idealism to a nasty separatism, underlined by absurd Critical Race Theory ideas as “cultural appropriation”, and the endless grievance-mining for guff like "microagressions". The kneeling thing jars for many of us because it represents this divisive, separatist ideology, even though many who approve and kneel are undoubtedly doing it for what they consider are the right reasons. 

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49 minutes ago, aintforever said:

The players have made it crystal clear that there is nothing political in their gestures, it's purely anti-racism.

That was long ago, I thought it would have sunk in with even you by now.

They like to be triggered 

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48 minutes ago, aintforever said:

The players have made it crystal clear that there is nothing political in their gestures, it's purely anti-racism.

That was long ago, I thought it would have sunk in with even you by now.

And mugs like you believe it. 
 

They jumped on a bandwagon and haven’t the guts to get off it. That should have sunk in by now, even with you. 

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5 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:


lol. Reverse ferret 

It was you that suggested it was a political statement and against FA rules. 

Some people argue that if a person of colour raise his/her fist it is anti-racist but if a caucasian does it it is racist. Historically Black Power salutes have always been interpreted as political gestures.

To an extent it is a question of personal interpretation and opinion - if you disagree with me that's fine.

Edited by badgerx16
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5 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Pony 

Nobody used the phrase until the group came along. 

Completely wrong. The public BLM movement has existed for a long time. The political organisation currently calling themselves BLM has simply coopted the name and the support it has to boost their profile. 

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8 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Pony 

Nobody used the phrase until the group came along. 

So do you think the players that take the knee are showing solidarity with the political aims of BLM and that is what their intention is behind the gesture?

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38 minutes ago, JRM said:

If it hadn't been for the attacks on this nations heritage there would have been no counter protest, agree or disagree? How did it make you feel seeing the attempt to set fire to the flag on the cenotaph? 

As for the lad caught short, you write as if he deliberately targeted a memorial, very clearly he had no idea if was even there. Compared to pouring paint over Churchill, clear premeditated deliberate act. 

What this thread does clearly illustrate is how divisive this is, instead of us all United supporting our club it's a topic that will clearly lead to disagreements and arguments. 

Disagree. Plenty of them would have turned out spoiling for a fight regardless. The video footage from the day clearly shows that. When it transpired that the people who they had ostensibly gathered to protect the monuments from had decided not to come, instead of just going home they started fighting with the police instead. Classy.

I'm not condoning some of the vandalism that went on. Like I said, there was a minority of idiots ruining things for the majority as there always is. And I'm sure many of the patriots like your veteran friend were genuinely there to peacefully counter protest and were appalled at the behaviour of some of their own 'side'.

You are trying to make out that the BLM demonstrators were all there to cause trouble and that the football lads were all virtuous, diligent protectors of the peace. This is blatantly untrue. 

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1 hour ago, aintforever said:

The players have made it crystal clear that there is nothing political in their gestures, it's purely anti-racism.

That was long ago, I thought it would have sunk in with even you by now.

Oh, I see, it was all in the statement and crystal clear that there is nothing political in their gestures.

What was in the statement about Kazim-Richards and him standing with his raised fist as in the pictures above - just a general wave to someone he spotted in the crowd or a 'Black Power' / political movement salute?

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1 hour ago, aintforever said:

The players have made it crystal clear that there is nothing political in their gestures, it's purely anti-racism.

That was long ago, I thought it would have sunk in with even you by now.

From the chair of Kick it Out - seeing as the organisation is all respectable and legitimate. Indeed his words are far more unequivocal and damning:

https://twitter.com/SanjayKickItOut/status/1335536769467633664

 

 

 

Edited by shurlock
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  • Lighthouse changed the title to Things That are Racist

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