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Summer Transfer Window 2021


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41 minutes ago, jamesfp1 said:

8/10. Competition for Romeu would have been nice.

Considering the known basis that we are skint as a club and our owner wont put money in, I'd be inclined to agree. We've got fresh faces and young blood, none of whom are guaranteed to succeed but I'd rather give them a go than cling to the likes of Bertrand forevermore. We've added depth and competition at fullback, which was a big omission from last year's squad. 

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1 hour ago, Totton Saint said:

Or Alan Ball Mould

That is being greedy !! Can't think of any player in the modern game that comes close, let alone one that might come to us - or we could afford - aged 31.

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5 hours ago, Daft Kerplunk said:

If we stay up, that’ll be a perfect season 👍🏼

For the owners yes.  For the fans finishing 17th is not really a season which will last long in the memory and fewer and fewer fans will renew their s/t based on what they are getting back in return.

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2 hours ago, TWar said:

I'm going to go 7.5/10

Positives:

  • Armstrong is a great player and a great buy at his age, price, and homegrown status
  • Livramento is a truly excellent signing, value-for-moneywise probably our best signing since Koeman left
  • Perraud looks very capable, great at getting stuck in and getting involved
  • Ralph has seen something in Elyounoussi and he has 4 goals in two starts (three admittedly against crap oppo)
  • JWP signed a long term deal and committed his future which is great as he has been easily our best and most important player under Ralph
  • We cleared a lot of deadweight including Lemina, Hoedt, Gunn, and unfortunately nearing the end Bertrand
  • We got fantastic money for Vestergaard and Ings considering they were at the end of their contracts, I remember people (myself included) saying it was naïve to budget £30m from their combined sales, we got about £45m. Excellent selling.
  • Whilst we didn't spend all we made we clearly have a plan going forward and that ~£20m or so we made this window can be invested in the future

Negatives

  • We should have replaced Vestergaard with someone higher profile to fix our struggling defence
  • GK would have been nice to fix now rather than in 12 months
  • Ings will be a miss, although I fully back Armstrong to hit his 10 non-pen goals he got last season we could have had both
  • Our number 10 role is not that improved although the development of Elyounoussi, Djenepo, and Tella could change my mind on that.

All in all, very satisfied with this window. Not perfect, of course, but holding some money back and spending the rest next summer could be shrewd as this is quite a substantially changed team now and assessing it's strengths and weaknesses over a longer period and then addressing them could be an astute move. Would have liked a keeper though.

I thought the Positives/Negatives you've listed are a decent summary, and difficult to argue with, although MLG managed to !

Think you're being a bit generous in your 7.5 assessment though, time will tell. For me I'd rate it 6/10, because although pleased with the incomings, I'd also have liked

  • Getting rid of more dross (as well as 'deadwood'), and I'd include Redmond, and Elyounoussi in that, (hoping they prove me wrong over a season rather in just a week)
  • GK's - no further comment required
  • DM & CB - much needed experience and physical presence 

Lyanco is a strange one, I suspect he'll be one of two extremes, a revelation or a self destructing hand grenade. Bit of a risk.

In terms of CB and DM would have liked a more proven player, although difficult on our budget. To use a 'Borisism' players coming in here should have been 'oven ready' ! 

 

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4 hours ago, Badger said:

I thought the Positives/Negatives you've listed are a decent summary, and difficult to argue with, although MLG managed to !

Think you're being a bit generous in your 7.5 assessment though, time will tell. For me I'd rate it 6/10, because although pleased with the incomings, I'd also have liked

  • Getting rid of more dross (as well as 'deadwood'), and I'd include Redmond, and Elyounoussi in that, (hoping they prove me wrong over a season rather in just a week)
  • GK's - no further comment required
  • DM & CB - much needed experience and physical presence 

Lyanco is a strange one, I suspect he'll be one of two extremes, a revelation or a self destructing hand grenade. Bit of a risk.

In terms of CB and DM would have liked a more proven player, although difficult on our budget. To use a 'Borisism' players coming in here should have been 'oven ready' ! 

 

I think its probably about 6/10

We are still short a defensive midfielder to cover for Romeu (and eventually replace him).  Diallo and Armstrong provide cover for JWP in the box-to-box role but I don't see that we have anyone that can cover for Romeu in the CDM role.   We struggled when he was out last season as our midfield is too lightweight without him.  Hopefully Diallo will prove me wrong and provide that cover this season - and be more physical.

At attacking midfield we still look a little lightweight. I was hoping we'd move on at least 2 out of Djneppo, Redmond and Elyounoussi  if not all 3 and get some upgrades at AM. Lets not forget we borrowed Minamino as we didn't think what we had in AM last season was good enough.

Djneppo works hard but has no end product - no finish or final pass. He will score the odd worldy but overall he wont make a real difference.  Redmond can do it but  very rarely - he has no consistency and a somewhat toxic relationship with the crowd.  Elyounoussi will hopefully come good and prove to be a much better player than 2 season ago.  

I was  not particularly happy we brought Walcott back on a permanent deal as he is on big  wages - and I don't see him having that much impact on the pitch.  I think we will regret giving him a 2 year deal next summer.

Lets hope Tella can find the form and consistency he has hinted - if he does we should be OK in AM

Our 2 best AMs are probably going to be S Armstrong and Livramento which says something as one is a CM and the other a RB.

However I think in A Broja and A Armstrong we have done well in replacing Ings and with those two and Adams we should be OK. But we could do with a bit more depth upfront. But I am surprised Long is still here. Why the hell did we give him a 2 year contract last summer instead of letting him leave on a free - and on bigger wages than any other club appear to be willing to pay.  Tella & Redmons provide cover  at CF but they are both really AMs

And we look a lot stronger at full back

In central defence I think we will be OK with Salisu and Bednarek as first choice (once Jan's back on the pitch after getting over having a new baby in the house). Stephens will provide OK cover and hopefully Lyanco will do the same.  And I guess Simeu gives us a 5th centreback.  But I would have liked another CB all the same.

And then there is the keeper issue - we really need a better keeper as first choice than McCarthy or Forster.  But I don't think we have the money.

But I think in reality Ralph/Crocker/Semmens have done as well as they can - and spent all the money they could.  Also I think this is really just the start of a team rebuild that will be finished next summer when Long and Forster are off the wage bill and with only 1 year on their contracts Redmond, Elyounossi and Djneppo will be sold and replaced.  We probably would have sold them this summer - but we knew no one would match the contracts they are on with us.

 Hopefully then they will sign a first choice keeper, another striker, a CDM and a CB and upgrade in the AM positions.

 

 

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5 hours ago, Badger said:

That is being greedy !! Can't think of any player in the modern game that comes close, let alone one that might come to us - or we could afford - aged 31.

I suppose in today's game a player like Case might stay at Liverpool as a rotation player

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7 hours ago, egg said:

I suspect he's on massive wages. Good player though. 

Well worth speaking to Villa fans if anyone seriously thinks he's the answer to any of our questions. 

Over paid & under worked. This guys giant ego causes the vast majority of his lower body injuries.  Avoid. 

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Goalkeeper - 0/10 - No comment.

Centre Back - 7/10 - Depends a lot on Lyanco being a hit, but if he is then it is one of the strongest positions in the squad.

Full Backs - 10/10 - Gone from one of the weakest parts of the squad to by far the strongest. Top work.

Midfield - 5/10 - Needed strengthening but not critical.

Attack - 8/10 - Lost Ings but better depth and less injury prone. Looks good.

Overall - 30/50 = 6/10

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14 hours ago, CB Fry said:

Pretty stupid comment. By the same token we could have signed a large black pudding with a face drawn on and hand tied to a broom handle as our Danny Ings replacement and some on this forum would be saying "let's give him a chance, I can't believe you people are knee jerk writing him off already without seeing him play, its a disgrace,this is exactly what happened to Mane, call yourselves a supporter etc etc etc"

If the truth stings...

Neither position is right and yes there are posters at both extremes. My underlying point is, which you miss by not fully quoting, is that it's possible to criticise without thinking the sky is falling in.

Also, a seemingly player with weaknesses can sometimes be the missing piece of the jigsaw if their skills complement another in the team.

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Weaker 1st team but much stronger squad. Failed signings replaced with high potential youngsters. Total failure to improve our two stand out weaknesses - centre back and gk, and don’t think the additions of Walcott and Ely improve us at all in no 10s. so all in all I’d give it a 6 out of 10 with the acknowledgement that money is tight. We’re going to ship a load of goals again with those CBS / Gks so have to hope that Ings match winners are replaced somewhere - hopefully Armstrong can be that man.

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We have understandably been very focused on whether the ins and outs will make us more competitive than we were in the second half of last season, and I’m confident that they will. That’s the shorter term benefit.

Even more important is the fact that fixing a lot of the accumulated financial disasters should make the club much more attractive to prospective buyers than it was six months ago. That’s the longer term benefit, because we’ll have a low ceiling for as long as Gao owns us. I don’t see a flotilla of luxury yachts suddenly appearing at Ocean Village, but the future certainly looks brighter.

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4 hours ago, CanadaSaint said:

We have understandably been very focused on whether the ins and outs will make us more competitive than we were in the second half of last season, and I’m confident that they will. That’s the shorter term benefit.

Even more important is the fact that fixing a lot of the accumulated financial disasters should make the club much more attractive to prospective buyers than it was six months ago. That’s the longer term benefit, because we’ll have a low ceiling for as long as Gao owns us. I don’t see a flotilla of luxury yachts suddenly appearing at Ocean Village, but the future certainly looks brighter.

It will only look brightr if we start winning games and clubs like Palace Watford Burnley Norwich Brentford do not

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12 hours ago, Cartman said:

Goalkeeper - 0/10 - No comment.

Centre Back - 7/10 - Depends a lot on Lyanco being a hit, but if he is then it is one of the strongest positions in the squad.

Full Backs - 10/10 - Gone from one of the weakest parts of the squad to by far the strongest. Top work.

Midfield - 5/10 - Needed strengthening but not critical.

Attack - 8/10 - Lost Ings but better depth and less injury prone. Looks good.

Overall - 30/50 = 6/10

Fair assessment.  On the off chance Lyanco is actually a hit then our back 4 is looking very strong.

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13 hours ago, Cartman said:

Goalkeeper - 0/10 - No comment.

Centre Back - 7/10 - Depends a lot on Lyanco being a hit, but if he is then it is one of the strongest positions in the squad.

Full Backs - 10/10 - Gone from one of the weakest parts of the squad to by far the strongest. Top work.

Midfield - 5/10 - Needed strengthening but not critical.

Attack - 8/10 - Lost Ings but better depth and less injury prone. Looks good.

Overall - 30/50 = 6/10

Goalkeeper, we did offload Gunn, so perhaps 1/10 would be more appropriate

Centre Back - may not be applicable this season but we also signed Simeu for the future, is Lyanco an improvement on Vestegaard, depends which Vestegaard you compare with, the one prior to last season, most definitely yes, the one who had a good half season last year, no, unless he turns out to be a star, but with Salisu improving (and Stephens) then its fair to say we are certainly no worse off. We also disposed of Hoedt so that's a bonus.

Midfield - failed to address critical weakness in defensive Midfield (cover for Romeu), think 5/10 is generous on this basis. Probably improved attacking midfield by losing Minamino, and the return of the new and seemingly improved Moi is reason for optimism.

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watching the game v Newcastle I felt we played a very attrative on the eye game, a big improvement in the playing style IMO, thereofre the squad is better in its blend perhaps.

I still feel we needed a midfielder ( Yes Grimes) but I have more hope of a decent season than I did a few weeks back

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Have to say this transfer window has got me looking optimistically at the upcoming season, signing some of this country’s best youngsters helps make up for the lack of real quality to come out of the academy in recent years. However I hope the club balance out the youth with experience in the upcoming years.

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19 hours ago, Ex Lion Tamer said:

I suppose in today's game a player like Case might stay at Liverpool as a rotation player

Me and the and the

Case poster were only having a bit of fun naming ex St players only and  were not meant to be taken seriously. 

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On 01/09/2021 at 12:45, Badger said:

That is being greedy !! Can't think of any player in the modern game that comes close, let alone one that might come to us - or we could afford - aged 31.

 

11 minutes ago, Totton Saint said:

Alan Ball did come to us

Indeed. Great inspirational buy he was as well. Certainly an all time Saints hero of mine.

But for all his great qualities I don't think he falls within the player in the modern game category that I referred to. 

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On 02/09/2021 at 03:52, The Cat said:

He's played 21 games in the last 8 seasons. No thanks.

Sergio Romero recent playing history:

2019/20: 17 games

2018/19: 7 games

2017/18: 10 games

2016/17: 18 games

2015/16: 13 games

2014/15: 11 games

2013/14: 9 games

2012/13: 33 games

Not loads, but quite a bit more than 21.

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1 hour ago, niceandfriendly said:

Sergio Romero recent playing history:

2019/20: 17 games

2018/19: 7 games

2017/18: 10 games

2016/17: 18 games

2015/16: 13 games

2014/15: 11 games

2013/14: 9 games

2012/13: 33 games

Not loads, but quite a bit more than 21.

plus 90 odd Argie caps.

Edited by skintsaint
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2 hours ago, niceandfriendly said:

Sergio Romero recent playing history:

2019/20: 17 games

2018/19: 7 games

2017/18: 10 games

2016/17: 18 games

2015/16: 13 games

2014/15: 11 games

2013/14: 9 games

2012/13: 33 games

Not loads, but quite a bit more than 21.

Interesting that you are intentionally ignoring the stats from the 2020-21 season- you know last season, the one that's just happened, not 2013. 

Zero appearances. Zero.

Does last season not count as "recent history"?

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4 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

Interesting that you are intentionally ignoring the stats from the 2020-21 season- you know last season, the one that's just happened, not 2013. 

Zero appearances. Zero.

Does last season not count as "recent history"?

Henderson coming back from loan ended his season I guess. Became Utds cup keeper/no2 rather than Romero.

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13 minutes ago, adriansfc said:

Romero is ten times the keeper McCarthy has ever been. Guessing we can’t afford the wages as it’d be such an obvious move to improve the keepers. 

Or maybe, we dont want Romero, and have our eye on 1 or 2 other keepers next summer when we have more money and the opportunity. Remember Sam Johnstone will be free in the summer. If we got him (not saying we want him/he will come) but if it did happen, it means we have more money on other areas of the team.

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17 minutes ago, Billy the Kidd said:

Or maybe, we dont want Romero, and have our eye on 1 or 2 other keepers next summer when we have more money and the opportunity. Remember Sam Johnstone will be free in the summer. If we got him (not saying we want him/he will come) but if it did happen, it means we have more money on other areas of the team.

In which case, assuming that Macca and Forster will be good enough to ensure we stay up this season is a massive gamble.

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10 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

In which case, assuming that Macca and Forster will be good enough to ensure we stay up this season is a massive gamble.

I'm clinging on to the fact is has been so far *touch wood*.

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8 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

In which case, assuming that Macca and Forster will be good enough to ensure we stay up this season is a massive gamble.

I’m not thinking it is ideal, but would be surprised if we went down. Big gamble maybe, I did wonder if we go in for Johnston in January.

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People keep banging on about Romero, but there must be a reason why he's still without a club and someone like West Ham haven't even picked him up. It must be crazy wage demands or his professionalism. You have to question why someone who was Argie's No1 decided to willingly go and play second fiddle to De Gea and then stayed there playing very little football at the peak of his career. Maybe just wants to be a Stuart Taylor type now.

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Sam Johnstone would really be much of a muchness and we would be having the same conversation about a new goalkeeper in a year's time. I think that we need to move away from the English goalkeeper route, as the talent is sparse outside of Pickford and Pope, as we can testify. Are there not any Finnish (He's only 28) goalkeepers anymore?

I know that goalkeepers are late developers, but at 28 Johnstone has only played one Premier League season, and in that season, he conceded 74 goals in 37 matches. Exactly two goals a game. We would be signing the only goalkeeper that conceded more goals than us last season, which doesn't seem like an improvement. Even this season he's conceded three goals in four appearances, for a team in second place in the Championship. He might have made a few good saves on MotD last season, but so did David Marshall when he went down.

I also think there's a reason why no one's made a move for him, despite his contract being in its final year. I'm hoping that we avoid him and that our scouts can actually earn their moneys worth by discovering someone elsewhere.

 

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15 minutes ago, HarvSFC said:

Sam Johnstone would really be much of a muchness and we would be having the same conversation about a new goalkeeper in a year's time. I think that we need to move away from the English goalkeeper route, as the talent is sparse outside of Pickford and Pope, as we can testify. Are there not any Finnish (He's only 28) goalkeepers anymore?

I know that goalkeepers are late developers, but at 28 Johnstone has only played one Premier League season, and in that season, he conceded 74 goals in 37 matches. Exactly two goals a game. We would be signing the only goalkeeper that conceded more goals than us last season, which doesn't seem like an improvement. Even this season he's conceded three goals in four appearances, for a team in second place in the Championship. He might have made a few good saves on MotD last season, but so did David Marshall when he went down.

I also think there's a reason why no one's made a move for him, despite his contract being in its final year. I'm hoping that we avoid him and that our scouts can actually earn their moneys worth by discovering someone elsewhere.

 

I tend to agree with this viewpoint.  Easy to look a good keeper when in a shit team with a defence that is allowing you to be peppered constantly.  Loads of examples of keepers who looked decent in similar circumstances.

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1 hour ago, adriansfc said:

Romero is ten times the keeper McCarthy has ever been. Guessing we can’t afford the wages as it’d be such an obvious move to improve the keepers. 

IMO Rubbish, our keepers are always seen as trash whilst all the others teams are world beaters. Romero would play for us and in 3 games he would be put in the same bracket as all our keepers. Niemi has been the only one who in recent times has not been hammered as far as I can recall, and towards the end he got sloppy.

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1 hour ago, Sheaf Saint said:

In which case, assuming that Macca and Forster will be good enough to ensure we stay up this season is a massive gamble.

Its not only the keepers we do need defenders to stop making basic errors to allow the opposition good chances.

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7 minutes ago, OldNick said:

Its not only the keepers we do need defenders to stop making basic errors to allow the opposition good chances.

But that's precisely my point. With the number of chances we concede due to our comedy defending, we need a better keeper behind them otherwise we are taking a massive risk.

Signing one defender may or may not improve the overall defence and reduce the number of shots on target, but signing a better keeper would instantly reduce the number of goals we concede.

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3 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

But that's precisely my point. With the number of chances we concede due to our comedy defending, we need a better keeper behind them otherwise we are taking a massive risk.

Signing one defender may or may not improve the overall defence and reduce the number of shots on target, but signing a better keeper would instantly reduce the number of goals we concede.

Wed need 2 between the posts lol.

Forster has improved at taking crosses, McCarthy has done some good saves but I still feel the way to stop goals is to improve the defending. 

Sadly we seem calm and our keepers do get a bit flappy and so that unnerves the team and fans, but unless we spend a considerable amount we will always have a keeper with limitations

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Argentina have always struggled with goalkeepers, and mostly they’re not playing regular club football. Sergio Romero has more caps for Argentina than he has club appearances for any club in his career. He really isn’t the world beater that people on here think he is.

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20 minutes ago, saintwbu said:

Argentina have always struggled with goalkeepers, and mostly they’re not playing regular club football. Sergio Romero has more caps for Argentina than he has club appearances for any club in his career. He really isn’t the world beater that people on here think he is.

He doesn’t need to be a world beater, just better than the current dross we have, which isn’t hard. 
 

He’d improve us, without a doubt. 

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21 hours ago, Badger said:

 

Indeed. Great inspirational buy he was as well. Certainly an all time Saints hero of mine.

But for all his great qualities I don't think he falls within the player in the modern game category that I referred to. 

Please give an example of the modern player who now fits the category you referred to.  I think modern football is often in need of a Ball like character. Do you remember him playing  a blinder in a league cup round.  I think Golac was in our team at full back and was it against Man C .If I remember right  Channon played for Man C?

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1 hour ago, Totton Saint said:

Please give an example of the modern player who now fits the category you referred to.  I think modern football is often in need of a Ball like character. Do you remember him playing  a blinder in a league cup round.  I think Golac was in our team at full back and was it against Man C .If I remember right  Channon played for Man C?

Dont think I can think of anyone like him in modern day football. Although I think one of the greatest midfield performances I have seen watching over the years was when Gordon Strachan played for Leeds against us at the Dell, he ruled the game, outstanding

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1 hour ago, Dman said:

He doesn’t need to be a world beater, just better than the current dross we have, which isn’t hard. 
 

He’d improve us, without a doubt. 

If we are going to recruit someone i d like a massive upgrade, like an up and coming star from europe.

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2 hours ago, saintwbu said:

Argentina have always struggled with goalkeepers, and mostly they’re not playing regular club football. Sergio Romero has more caps for Argentina than he has club appearances for any club in his career. He really isn’t the world beater that people on here think he is.

He can put in good performances at St Mary’s (4 years ago)...

 

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33 minutes ago, stevy777_x said:

If we are going to recruit someone i d like a massive upgrade, like an up and coming star from europe.

Wouldn’t we all, but currently, that’s impossible for a few reasons; 

1. The transfer window is shut, we can only look at players who are currently without a club. Imo, we’re desperate, we can’t wait until next season. 

2. Were skint. Good up and coming keepers will cost a decent amount of money, we don’t have that. 

3. With an up and coming star in our price bracket, there is risk. We tried that with Gunn, he was highly rated but ended up being rubbish. We cannot afford another Gunn situation. 
 

Romero seems an absolute no brainier. 

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A good and upcoming goalkeeper unlikely to cost much from abroad.....step forward Wuilker Farinez the Venezuelan keeper currently playing for Lens. I've watched a lot of Venezuelas games and he is very athletic and a great shop stopper. Really commands his box well.

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14 minutes ago, Dman said:

Wouldn’t we all, but currently, that’s impossible for a few reasons; 

1. The transfer window is shut, we can only look at players who are currently without a club. Imo, we’re desperate, we can’t wait until next season. 

2. Were skint. Good up and coming keepers will cost a decent amount of money, we don’t have that. 

3. With an up and coming star in our price bracket, there is risk. We tried that with Gunn, he was highly rated but ended up being rubbish. We cannot afford another Gunn situation. 
 

Romero seems an absolute no brainier. 

I believe we have money left over from this window, which we will put together with whatever small amount we have to play with next year to give us a head-start to potentially look at keepers in the £15m bracket from word go, without having to sell first. That's how I'd expect a sensible cash-strapped club to operate and I have faith that we are sensible nowadays.

Offering someone like Romero a deal, whilst we are still paying McCarthy and Forster £150k between them isn't sensible. Romero won't want buttons, he will be as well paid as both of our current - if not more.

I think there are lots of options we can look at in the summer. Once we have got rid of Forsters wages and have maybe £15-20m to play with, then there are options. The scouting should be all over Europe as we are after a first choice keeper who will last us for years to come. Be interesting if we had a look in the Turkish, French or Russian leagues as there are some quality young keepers over there.

Edited by S-Clarke
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