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4 hours ago, spyinthesky said:

To be fair there is a historical context to 'Anti Vaxxers' like yourself and others.

When the smallpox vaccination was made compulsory for infants in 1853 and extended to under 14's in 1867 there were demonstrations, as there are now, with coffins, banners and effigies of Edward Jenner burnt by the demonstrators.

The Church of England considered the process unsafe, immoral and against God's will.

All this occurred at time when there was an increasing mistrust of the ruling elite.

The mistrust of smallpox vaccination subsequently reared it's head in the USA even though sanitary arrangements for inoculation had improved considerably since the original risky but effective procedures were introduced by Jenner.

It is reckoned that the introduction of small pox vaccination saved the lives of millions of people in the 19th & 20th centuries as smallpox was such a rampant disease.

Similar concerns and protests attended the introduction of the polio vaccine in the early 1950's but, post war, dissent was not so pronounced and most of us have benefitted from the polio vaccination programme.

The more recent anti vaxx movement has been spawned from the discredited research by Andrew Wakefield into the MMR vaccination programme.

Andrew Wakefield 'research' has been taken as gospel primarily by some groups in the US who refuse to allow their children to have the MMR jab.

As a consequence there has recently been outbreaks of measles in some southern US states after the disease had been more or less eradicated. 

So there has been a history of concern about vaccinations.

However in the vast majority of cases the benefits have proved to far outweighed the drawbacks.

An interesting post for my family.

Apparently my paternal great grandfather ( minor town council official) ended up sending my other great grandfather to jail because he wouldn't get his baby, my grandfather,  vaccinted against smallpox. His protest apparently was against the vaccination process ( dirty blades used) rather than the vaccination itself. 

A load of bollux I say. Just get vaccinated.

 

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8 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

Meh, I never stopped personally. Now I’m worried about my ski holiday in January, surely they can’t cancel another season.

Pro vaxxers should storm the general hospital and wheel out all the unvaccinated (the vast majority) and leave them in the car park

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12 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

What do you think that actually shows?

There are literally thousands of variants, the vast majority of them end up harmless and probably were never even seen, eventually some of them end up dangerous through luck, basically like long ball football. It was ages ago that they started using the Greek alphabet to designate some of the potentially more dangerous ones.

That picture as far as I can see just shows an underestimate of how many designated variants we expected to see by now.

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1 minute ago, Lighthouse said:

I’m not even sure what you think that is supposed to represent, even if it was in some way credible.

It was tongue-in-cheek.

In seriousness, this new variant is perfect timing to entice people in for boosters/2nd jabs.  I wonder if the fuss will fall away, much like the variant in India where people were dying in the street (for about a week!).  I suspect nothing serious will change.  Sure, there will be a spike in infections and that will be about it, is my opinion.

 

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1 minute ago, AlexLaw76 said:

It was tongue-in-cheek.

In seriousness, this new variant is perfect timing to entice people in for boosters/2nd jabs.  I wonder if the fuss will fall away, much like the variant in India where people were dying in the street (for about a week!).  I suspect nothing serious will change.  Sure, there will be a spike in infections and that will be about it, is my opinion.

 

Let's hope so, let's hope it's not like the Delta one. What do you advocate that we do whilst we find out; no press coveage, no government response?

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Just now, AlexLaw76 said:

It was tongue-in-cheek.

In seriousness, this new variant is perfect timing to entice people in for boosters/2nd jabs.  I wonder if the fuss will fall away, much like the variant in India where people were dying in the street (for about a week!).  I suspect nothing serious will change.  Sure, there will be a spike in infections and that will be about it, is my opinion.

 

Hopefully you're right, but some of the numbers on infections seen so far suggest it might be evading the vaccine.

Vaccinated numbers in South Africa mean we can't tell for certain yet, so it remains to be seen how it behaves in a more vaccinated population, but if it evades the vaccine enough that it can also cause serious illness in vaccinated people, the current measures in place will seem to have been woefully inadequate.

My gut feeling is that it's not the worst case scenario, but it's now more likely than with Delta that unvaccinated people will come into contact with it, mostly through vaccinated people with relatively mild or no symptoms, and they're the ones most at risk in the UK, but we really don't have enough data yet.

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1 hour ago, Lighthouse said:

Meh, I never stopped personally. Now I’m worried about my ski holiday in January, surely they can’t cancel another season.

You’re brave booking. 2021 looks almost certain to be the first calendar year I’ve done zero days of skiing since 1999, which is a stretch I’m disappointed won’t continue. But I’m not looking to do anything next season either as there’s just too many unknowns. Austria in lockdown is not a good look, and the ski forum I look in on has slightly worrying tales about lift restrictions, on-slope/on-lift mask requirements, and other general resort number minimalism (goodness knows what the apres scene will look like). Good luck to you 🤞

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3 minutes ago, The Kraken said:

You’re brave booking. 2021 looks almost certain to be the first calendar year I’ve done zero days of skiing since 1999, which is a stretch I’m disappointed won’t continue. But I’m not looking to do anything next season either as there’s just too many unknowns. Austria in lockdown is not a good look, and the ski forum I look in on has slightly worrying tales about lift restrictions, on-slope/on-lift mask requirements, and other general resort number minimalism (goodness knows what the apres scene will look like). Good luck to you 🤞

Cheers, this was all booked weeks ago, before the current surge and new variant. Back then it looked like everything was going to sell out as everyone had gone two years without and was desperate to get back on it.

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48 minutes ago, SalmonSi said:

So, less than 2 days into the news of the new variant and science has already determined that those with only 2 jabs are at risk, while those with 3 jabs are much more safe. LOL. How people cannot see through this pantomime is truly beyond belief. 

I am just glad there are some enlightened ones who can debunk the scientists with strong evidence. I have no time for people who suggest they are thick cunts clogging up the hospitals.

 

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45 minutes ago, SalmonSi said:

So, less than 2 days into the news of the new variant and science has already determined that those with only 2 jabs are at risk, while those with 3 jabs are much more safe. LOL. How people cannot see through this pantomime is truly beyond belief. 

Because it is simple really, people with two jabs had them a while ago, protection decreases over time. Those with three jabs have had their protection recently boosted.

Unless those trying to control us are so useless they fucked up the original dose.

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2 hours ago, SalmonSi said:

So, less than 2 days into the news of the new variant and science has already determined that those with only 2 jabs are at risk, while those with 3 jabs are much more safe. LOL. How people cannot see through this pantomime is truly beyond belief. 

you-see-it-is.gif.40047eb835471984dea8f696353e1e06.gif

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1 hour ago, Fan The Flames said:

Unless those trying to control us are so useless they fucked up the original dose.

Don’t be silly, everyone knows the batteries in the microchips only last six months. If you Google, “electro-thermic lithium decay in organic microchips by professor Keith Malcolm,“ you’ll find an article on a free-web hosting site on page 32 of the result, which explains everything for you.

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11 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

Don’t be silly, everyone knows the batteries in the microchips only last six months. If you Google, “electro-thermic lithium decay in organic microchips by professor Keith Malcolm,“ you’ll find an article on a free-web hosting site on page 32 of the result, which explains everything for you.

No it's me, I'm just too fearful to think for myself.

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Bet some in government are cursing that only 51 deaths yesterday. That’s not the sort of numbers to get mask compliance

Fewer people in hospital and fewer on ventilators than same time last month.

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5 minutes ago, whelk said:

Bet some in government are cursing that only 51 deaths yesterday. That’s not the sort of numbers to get mask compliance

Fewer people in hospital and fewer on ventilators than same time last month.

If everyone had been wearing masks and following basic advice all the way through, it’s very likely to have made enough of a difference that we’d have had a R number way below one, and we’d only be looking at isolated cases due to travel now. I know it’s not really realistic to think that could have happened, but literally the only thing stopping that was that people didn’t want to.

Almost every day we’re seeing more people die of Covid than were killed in the 7/7 bombings, but we’re living in a time where that’s barely even noticed.

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30 minutes ago, Jimmy_D said:

If everyone had been wearing masks and following basic advice all the way through, it’s very likely to have made enough of a difference that we’d have had a R number way below one, and we’d only be looking at isolated cases due to travel now. I know it’s not really realistic to think that could have happened, but literally the only thing stopping that was that people didn’t want to.

Almost every day we’re seeing more people die of Covid than were killed in the 7/7 bombings, but we’re living in a time where that’s barely even noticed.

That's a big claim. What's the basis of it? 

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18 minutes ago, egg said:

That's a big claim. What's the basis of it? 

Infection rates have been fluctuating around roughly the same level since early August as they are. Anything which would have reduced the R number would have seen that level steadily decline.

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9 hours ago, SalmonSi said:

So, less than 2 days into the news of the new variant and science has already determined that those with only 2 jabs are at risk, while those with 3 jabs are much more safe. LOL. How people cannot see through this pantomime is truly beyond belief. 

How does science tell you this?

 

Of course I’m not expecting a reply as that isn’t your thing. Carry on with all these generalisation, it’s entertaining. 

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40 minutes ago, Doctoroncall said:

How does science tell you this?

 

Of course I’m not expecting a reply as that isn’t your thing. Carry on with all these generalisation, it’s entertaining. 

 

52 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

Infection rates have been fluctuating around roughly the same level since early August as they are. Anything which would have reduced the R number would have seen that level steadily decline.

 

9 hours ago, SalmonSi said:

So, less than 2 days into the news of the new variant and science has already determined that those with only 2 jabs are at risk, while those with 3 jabs are much more safe. LOL. How people cannot see through this pantomime is truly beyond belief. 

I dont think this is the case.

Apparently it will take at least two weeks before details of the new variant can be tested against the protection provided by the current vaccines.

If the vaccines dont provide a suitable protection then it is estimated it will be at least until Q1 2022 at the earliest that vaccines can be adjusted to add a more suitable booster jab against the new variant.

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1 hour ago, Turkish said:

Mild symptoms aren't uncommon with previous variants either, we haven't seen enough cases for long enough to know whether more serious symptoms also occur with the same frequency as in previous variants, but at the moment there's no reason to assume it only causes mild symptoms.

If it does only cause mild symptoms, AND it outcompetes previous variants, AND it causes immunity that's effective against other variants, then we might have hit an unbelievably massive lucky break. It'd basically be a self spreading vaccine that's most likely to vaccinate those that put themselves most at risk.

Right now there's nowhere near enough data to indicate that that's happened, and even after that we'll be waiting longer to know whether Long Covid effects are milder too. I hope she's right, that really would be a light at the end of the tunnel, but I don't think you can really accuse the UK of being over the top with it's response, when even she's quoted with “Two weeks from now maybe we will say something different.”

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6 hours ago, Jimmy_D said:

Mild symptoms aren't uncommon with previous variants either, we haven't seen enough cases for long enough to know whether more serious symptoms also occur with the same frequency as in previous variants, but at the moment there's no reason to assume it only causes mild symptoms.

If it does only cause mild symptoms, AND it outcompetes previous variants, AND it causes immunity that's effective against other variants, then we might have hit an unbelievably massive lucky break. It'd basically be a self spreading vaccine that's most likely to vaccinate those that put themselves most at risk.

Right now there's nowhere near enough data to indicate that that's happened, and even after that we'll be waiting longer to know whether Long Covid effects are milder too. I hope she's right, that really would be a light at the end of the tunnel, but I don't think you can really accuse the UK of being over the top with it's response, when even she's quoted with “Two weeks from now maybe we will say something different.”

We’ve seen all this before though haven’t we, many times. As other have already said, there will always be variants. Remember the super killing finish variant billions of times more transmissible and deadly than anything before it that was coming for us after they detected a a couple of cases in the Nordics? that all went quiet. The absolute widespread panic every single time a new variant is discovered is wearing thin. The same old rhetoric, vaccines may not work, may be more deadly, maybe more transmissible, maybe this maybe that. Even Chris Witty has come out and said previous variants are more of a concern.  

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51 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Remember, teachers are really fearful about COVID safety

 

Are they? Have you asked every teacher? Maybe the ones who are fearful of covid didn't attend because it doesn't look like all the teachers in the country are in that room to me.

I know loads of teachers and pretty much all of them had normal levels of concern about covid when it first started. Many were saying they wanted to get back to work properly months before schools were allowed back.

That post is so idiotic it's hit a new level of twattishness even for you.

 

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59 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Remember, teachers are really fearful about COVID safety

 

Ten seconds looking at the tweets relating to that and it is 90% people who otherwise reject mask wearing, and/or question the vaccine, go on about personal freedom etc etc saying that despite all this, they believe that that particular room of people definitely should be wearing masks, all of them, and its a disgrace that they're not.

Fucking tiresome hypocrite bullshit.

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4 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

Ten seconds looking at the tweets relating to that and it is 90% people who otherwise reject mask wearing, and/or question the vaccine, go on about personal freedom etc etc saying that despite all this, they believe that that particular room of people definitely should be wearing masks, all of them, and its a disgrace that they're not.

Fucking tiresome hypocrite bullshit.

I was going to go for the ‘that was taken in 2017’ approach and clearly misinformation to get twats excitable. And they aren’t teachers they are binmen/people. 

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Anyone else think the name Omicron sounds like a crime group from a Bond film? Great timing to merge the outbreak of a new variant with that name with the release of No Time To Die on sky cinema. No stone unturned to promote maximum panic, funnily enough we were only saying the other day we are due a new variant. 

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17 minutes ago, SalmonSi said:

So, if I don't wear a mask, wash & sanitise my hads ad-infinitum and take the Vax I am dead. So, how come not one of the homeless masses near us are dead? LOL

#Wakeywakey.

Ah, so you live on the Poland - Belorussia border.

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21 minutes ago, Turkish said:

...,funnily enough we were only saying the other day we are due a new variant. 

Mutations of the virus will occur on a daily basis as the RNA is replicated inside the host, most of which are of no concern. About 2 per month will generate transmissable variations related to infectivity, though most of these will not alter the effectiveness of sanitary precautions or vaccines.

Edited by badgerx16
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44 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

Mutations of the virus will occur on a daily basis as the RNA is replicated inside the host, most of which are of no concern. About 2 per month will generate transmissable variations related to infectivity, though most of these will not alter the effectiveness of sanitary precautions or vaccines.

SalmonSi - why did you add the laughing emoji to this post ? If you think this is incorrect, point out where and how, and provide your evidence or your informed/qualified explanation.

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On 28/11/2021 at 08:39, SalmonSi said:

So, less than 2 days into the news of the new variant and science has already determined that those with only 2 jabs are at risk, while those with 3 jabs are much more safe. LOL. How people cannot see through this pantomime is truly beyond belief. 

Only 5 bites in 24 hours. Disappointing.

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1 hour ago, SalmonSi said:

So, if I don't wear a mask, wash & sanitise my hads ad-infinitum and take the Vax I am dead. So, how come not one of the homeless masses near us are dead? LOL

#Wakeywakey.

Hoping to see more bites on this one folks. Much more potential than yesterday's attempt. Fill your boots.

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1 hour ago, Turkish said:

Anyone else think the name Omicron sounds like a crime group from a Bond film? 

It's an anagram of 'moronic'... I'm sure it's purely coincidental that it matches the description of a certain poster on this thread :)

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2 hours ago, Turkish said:

Omicron: How it differs

 

A headache, a scratchy throat, a cough and muscle aches, kind of pretty much the usual stuff with a winter cold/flu then.........

 

Careful you aren’t too far away from retweeting MLT’s guff

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7 hours ago, Turkish said:

We’ve seen all this before though haven’t we, many times. As other have already said, there will always be variants. Remember the super killing finish variant billions of times more transmissible and deadly than anything before it that was coming for us after they detected a a couple of cases in the Nordics? that all went quiet. The absolute widespread panic every single time a new variant is discovered is wearing thin. The same old rhetoric, vaccines may not work, may be more deadly, maybe more transmissible, maybe this maybe that. Even Chris Witty has come out and said previous variants are more of a concern.  

Or that Delta variant, don’t think we ever heard any more about that one either…

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18 minutes ago, Jimmy_D said:

Or that Delta variant, don’t think we ever heard any more about that one either…

Been there, got it, crushed it. Infections may be high, deaths are low, in fact most of my NHS contacts tell me the vast majority of people in ICU are the unvaccinated. So as long as you've done your bit nothing to fear, right.

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