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For those with more time on their hands and go beyond the generalities of ‘the science’ and other vagaries, this conference is starting today. 

The mRNA Applications in Discovery & Development, taking place November 30 - December 2, 2021. Delivered as a 3-day complimentary webcast series, industry leaders and service providers will showcase the power and diversity of mRNA technologies and applications across discovery, R&D, manufacturing, and delivery.

It’s free… this session maybe of particular interest: Sequence in, mRNA out.  A new paradigm to accelerate discovery of mRNA vaccines and therapeutics

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5 minutes ago, Doctoroncall said:

For those with more time on their hands and go beyond the generalities of ‘the science’ and other vagaries, this conference is starting today. 

The mRNA Applications in Discovery & Development, taking place November 30 - December 2, 2021. Delivered as a 3-day complimentary webcast series, industry leaders and service providers will showcase the power and diversity of mRNA technologies and applications across discovery, R&D, manufacturing, and delivery.

It’s free… this session maybe of particular interest: Sequence in, mRNA out.  A new paradigm to accelerate discovery of mRNA vaccines and therapeutics

SalmonSi will be along in a bit to add his mocking emoji to indicate that this webcast is simply a hoax to pander to the gullible.

Edited by badgerx16
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Has there been such a quick response to a new variant since this all started? With every variant so far they've always taken time to see the impact, now within days of news breaking masks imposed, travel restricted and changes to the vaccine roll out even though they've only seen a few cases worldwide. Do they know something they aren't telling us or is there another reason why they has been such an unusual response.....

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9 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Has there been such a quick response to a new variant since this all started? With every variant so far they've always taken time to see the impact, now within days of news breaking masks imposed, travel restricted and changes to the vaccine roll out even though they've only seen a few cases worldwide. Do they know something they aren't telling us or is there another reason why they has been such an unusual response.....

Pretty simple really - this variant has much more chance of escaping the protection of the vaccines and also be more transmissible.  Doesn't mean it will be, just that it looks like there's more probability of it happening.

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25 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Has there been such a quick response to a new variant since this all started? With every variant so far they've always taken time to see the impact, now within days of news breaking masks imposed, travel restricted and changes to the vaccine roll out even though they've only seen a few cases worldwide. Do they know something they aren't telling us or is there another reason why they has been such an unusual response.....

The mutations on it mean it can easily be tested for, as some haven't shown up before, and also because of those mutations, it seems like it's been discovered remarkably early after emerging, early enough that it's before we know how serious the illness it causes is.

As as soon as it was sequenced it was spotted as unusual for the sheer number of mutations, including a lot on the spike protein that the vaccine targets. Those spike protein mutations make it more likely to be able to avoid the vaccine. It very likely won't stop vaccines working completely, but they'll be less effective, and the next mutation that emerges and becomes dominant could take it even further away from the vaccine.

On top of that, where it was first discovered in South Africa, it's outcompeting Delta to the extent that it's now responsible for 90% of new cases, and there's a surge in new infections comparable to when Delta first emerged.

Basically the early numbers that have been seen so far look really really bad, and we don't know yet whether the effects of Omicron will follow on similar, more benign, or possibly even worse than other variants.

It's possible we're 'overreacting' in that it'll end up on the more benign side of the scale, but we've been stung too badly by doing less than was needed before to not react to this one. If Omicron does turn out to be on the worse side of the scale, anything that slows it spreading and gives us more time to increase vaccination and development of treatments is going to save lives.

This in the FT gives a pretty good summary of where we're at.

What we know about Omicron variant that has sparked global alarm | Financial Times (ft.com)

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2 hours ago, Turkish said:

Has there been such a quick response to a new variant since this all started? With every variant so far they've always taken time to see the impact, now within days of news breaking masks imposed, travel restricted and changes to the vaccine roll out even though they've only seen a few cases worldwide. Do they know something they aren't telling us or is there another reason why they has been such an unusual response.....

I think it is the rapid spread and infections it causes. No sign of serious illness yet but it will take a couple of weeks for that to filter through into data. This CNN article is quite well balanced and gives a good overview. A short period of waiting and seeing but I’m supportive of governments and international agencies being proactive. Especially when all variants spread more in indoor environments at this time of year https://edition.cnn.com/2021/11/26/health/omicron-variant-what-we-know/index.html

Edit - it seems unlikely that the vaccines will be hugely reduced in efficacy and the more vaccine you have the less the risk of serious illness on top of the NHS’s normal intense winter pressures. So that’s why the push to get boosters, holder whilst we know more about new variant in next 2-3 weeks.

Edited by saint1977
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8 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Yet they are pushing the vaccine boosters which they dont know are effective against Omicron yet. Bozo is telling everyone to get vaccinated now. 

Boosters definitely help against Delta, which is the problem we're facing right now, and are very likely to help against Omicron, albeit possibly to a lesser extent. Why wouldn't they be encouraging vaccination?

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58 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Yet they are pushing the vaccine boosters which they dont know are effective against Omicron yet. Bozo is telling everyone to get vaccinated now. 

Do you think the message should no hurry to get vaccinated chaps, carry on as normal?

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1 hour ago, Jimmy_D said:

Boosters definitely help against Delta, which is the problem we're facing right now, and are very likely to help against Omicron, albeit possibly to a lesser extent. Why wouldn't they be encouraging vaccination?

you say "problem", yet the figures do not suggest that.

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Just now, Lighthouse said:

At this exact moment and only in the UK. The rest of Europe is seeing a spike, so would it not be best to pre-empt that and get everyone a booster?

thankfully, most of the UK have had the jab, which is the point, right?

I firmly believe that the new variant is being used as a 'message' to get the booster in as many arms as possible. 

Edited by AlexLaw76
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7 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

thankfully, most of the UK have had the jab, which is the point, right?

I firmly believe that the new variant is being used as a 'message' to get the booster in as many arms as possible. 

Booster jabs started being rolled out on 30th September and we’ve known about the onion variant for barely a fortnight.

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4 hours ago, Turkish said:

Has there been such a quick response to a new variant since this all started? With every variant so far they've always taken time to see the impact, now within days of news breaking masks imposed, travel restricted and changes to the vaccine roll out even though they've only seen a few cases worldwide. Do they know something they aren't telling us or is there another reason why they has been such an unusual response.....

I think it's as simple as a) they've learnt that faffing about doesn't help and b) that they have no other tools to use - lockdown won't happen and as Whitty says, problem wouldn't be respected anyway. 

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1 minute ago, Lighthouse said:

Booster jabs started being rolled out on 30th September and we’ve known about the onion variant for barely a fortnight.

I know, the message today? the Booster is your salvation (and a significant ramp-up of the booster programme).

Fair play if you ask me.  The govt know that compliance wont last long, so going big right now.

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Can’t they just commandeer shedloads of industrial units across the country and make them into permanent vaccination centres. Staff them up and have this a part of infrastructure for next few years. Can’t be efficient spinning up extra boosters and the like each time some variant comes about.

they are complaining at booster take up but I booked mine recently and wasn’t the option of big centre where got my first jabs. 

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1 hour ago, AlexLaw76 said:

thankfully, most of the UK have had the jab, which is the point, right?

I firmly believe that the new variant is being used as a 'message' to get the booster in as many arms as possible. 

I think I’m with you on this. Vaccine take up drops, a new very dangerous worst one ever version appears just before end of the November with the message get vaccinated now to save your christmas. Not saying there isn’t a new Variant but as others have said there always will be variants. They’ve moved very very quickly to open up new test centres and ramp up the roll out of boosters considering we’ve only known about African version for a few days….

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17 minutes ago, Turkish said:

They’ve moved very very quickly to open up new test centres and ramp up the roll out of boosters considering we’ve only known about African version for a few days….

That’s a non-sequitur, boosters haven’t come about because of the new variant at all. They’ve been administered for a couple of months, would have been planned for several months before that and probably discussed with medical experts since the vaccines were first developed a year ago. We’ve been ramping it up because of the large spikes in cases of delta variant across Europe. 

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The government reaction is for the following reasons, in my opinion;

1) The mutations are of enough concern to require a response.

2) They fucked up the alpha response by acting too late. My hospital is in north Kent, which was where alpha (aka the Kent variant) was rampant. The government/scientists didn't realise early enough about the increased transmission of alpha. We were posting higher covid figures in the hospital, but the government thought that it was an internal infection control malfunction and sent a team to obsearve the infection control regime,  to work out 'what we were doing wrong'. We weren't it was just alpha taking hold. They then reacted with a half arsed social lockdown, but it was too late.

3) They fucked up the delta response, by not shutting the borders to India, because they were closing in on a trade deal.

4) This is a sign of a government with low confidence at the moment, a buoyant Boris government wouldn't be this cautious.

Edited by Fan The Flames
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Well my sister still hasn't had any vaccinations and it pisses me off quite frankly. Her husband is a lovely bloke but he's not the brightest and has filled her head with idiocy. It's depressing but there is a part of me that would like her to get it and be just ill enough that she takes it seriously. 

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1 hour ago, trousers said:

Why the f*** are unvaccinated people getting priority over cancer patients? (If I'm reading that correctly). Madness. 

My guess is because without treatment the covid patient will die now whereas with the cancer patient it is probably a slower process. 

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7 hours ago, The Cat said:

Are you Medway? My sister is a paramedic there.

Yes, for one more week then I'm off, Medway is full of good people trying to do the right thing, but no money to do it, so it's can never get itself straight. I'm sure it's a similar in other hospitals. Your sister has been working hard the last couple of years.

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7 hours ago, trousers said:

Why the f*** are unvaccinated people getting priority over cancer patients? (If I'm reading that correctly). Madness. 

Way it works unfortunately. I bang on and on but why the fuck these are omitted from the govt stats I do not know. Of the 970 on ventilators and taking up vital NHS resources 93% were not vaccinated. Of the 243 deaths today 89% were not vaccinated. Conspiracy why they are not publishing what is clearly in the public interest. 

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9 hours ago, trousers said:

Why the f*** are unvaccinated people getting priority over cancer patients? (If I'm reading that correctly). Madness. 

I agree with you in principle but it’s a horrible position for NHS frontline staff to be in. If they start choosing on the basis of social decisions patients make, it opens a can of worms and unpicks the core fabric of their organisation and what it was founded on. Nigel Lawson (Nigella’s father and former Chancellor in the 80s for the forum’s under 40s) described the NHS as the nearest thing to a true national faith and he is/was right in that observation.

What we can do to help is by making the 90% view clear and tackling misinformation and populism so that anti vax and the other weirdos out there feel like pariahs. I think employers will find ways of moving the unvaccinated on and new jobs advertised will increasingly pick it up via the recruitment and selection processes. In the end, only the very hard core will resist because the others will need to make a living and get jabbed. 

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22 minutes ago, aintforever said:

The chance of dying from Covid being used as a message to get a Covid vaccination, what a crazy idea.

Amazing isn't it, you can make anything sound like a conspiracy if you nuance your phrasing the right way.

 

Most of the people dying of Covid are unvaccinated. What a 'coincidence', all the people who refuse to comply with government instructions are slowly being killed off! 😲

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1 hour ago, aintforever said:

Think you missed the sarcasm.

Yes, I was wondering if there was any sarcasm in your post and I was going to add a query to that effect but I got distracted. Irony or sarcasm of any sort does not come over very well in flat internet text. Either way, my comment only reinforces your point.

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4 minutes ago, SalmonSi said:

Great homour (NOT), but as ever, my question remains an unswered, and clearly unanswered because it is not possible to be answered in anyway to expolain it away. If this virus was as deadly as they say, all the homeless would be dead. Funny, no stock market crashes either. LOL.

Neither am I. But we shall see how happy you are with your decision in the next few years, well, maybe. More likely you will have died from the contents of it by then. 

Does anyone here believe global warming is a serious threat to the future of mankind?

You keep believing if that makes you happy. However I do have a question for you - were you vaccinated as a child ? If so,why aren't you dead yet ?

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1 hour ago, SalmonSi said:

Neither am I. But we shall see how happy you are with your decision in the next few years, well, maybe. More likely you will have died from the contents of it by then. 

Some of us are scared of dying from covid and others it appears are scared of dying from the vaccine. We are just different sides of the same coin. 

I put my trust in science and you put your's in facebook snake oil grifters. 

As long as I see Saints lift a trophy before I die, I'll be happy.

Edited by Fan The Flames
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2 hours ago, SalmonSi said:

Great homour (NOT), but as ever, my question remains an unswered, and clearly unanswered because it is not possible to be answered in anyway to expolain it away. If this virus was as deadly as they say, all the homeless would be dead  

Ok, I’ll bite, I have time to kill. 
 

Firstly, how do you know (a real fact from a trusted source please) that homeless haven’t died?

 

Secondly, if they haven’t, probably, being homeless, they are outside all the time and not in close proximity with other people. When I see them, they are generally alone. To be outside and receive  a high enough viral load is very unlikely as the science has been saying all along. 

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1 hour ago, Fan The Flames said:

Some of us are scared of dying from covid and others it appears are scared of dying from the vaccine. We are just different sides of the same coin. 

I put my trust in science and you put your's in facebook snake oil grifters. 

As long as I see Saints lift a trophy before I die, I'll be happy.

No wonder we’re all miserable gits

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1 hour ago, Behind Enemy Lines said:

Ok, I’ll bite, I have time to kill. 
 

Firstly, how do you know (a real fact from a trusted source please) that homeless haven’t died?

 

Secondly, if they haven’t, probably, being homeless, they are outside all the time and not in close proximity with other people. When I see them, they are generally alone. To be outside and receive  a high enough viral load is very unlikely as the science has been saying all along. 

Regarding the first point, death in homelessness is a really difficult statistic to track. If anyone is interested I would thoroughly recommend the book "No fixed abode" by Maeve McClenaghan but expect a few tears while reading it. 

Well done on trying to speak some sense to this fool, but be prepared for it to fall on deaf ears. He has previously said that the pandemic isn't real, so that gives an indicator of the level of understanding.

 

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On 01/12/2021 at 00:22, trousers said:

Why the f*** are unvaccinated people getting priority over cancer patients? (If I'm reading that correctly). Madness. 

Maybe it was lung cancer patient who was taking up vital NHS services because of their selfishness and stupidity after smoking for 30 years. 
 

Now who deserves the bed? 

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