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Is the Premier League too rich for us?


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Today's disappointing performance isn't really just about missing out on the chance to play in an FA Cup Final to win a trophy, it's that the distraction from the last 4 months of awful form has gone and it brings into focus the future of the football club.

I've pondered this for a few seasons now, but this past summer really brought it into focus: Is the Premier League becoming too rich for us to exist in?  It seems nice and normal to think a club of our size could sustain and self-fund itself in the lower half of the league, but I think those days are coming to an end.  To even exist in this league now you need to invest more than you earn, and have the appropriate leadership and funds to do so.  The return of Aston Villa and Leeds means we can forget about ever competing with them again, so each season right now I think it comes down to the three promoted clubs, us, Burnley, Newcastle (under the current ownership) and Palace as to who goes down.  Brighton invest and will get it right through sheer financial muscle eventually, and everyone else operates at a financial level considerably out of our means. and even Palace right now are spending properly.

We've already had the reports that this summer we'll spend under £10m each on a couple of players, and that's just to fill holes - clubs pay that to get a player on loan these days.  Not to mention doubt over the future of two of our starting defence and a striker (who happens to be our best player).

Each season the clubs ability to complete in this division erodes, and we delay the inevitable.  The only chance we've got is a change of ownership, but that seems unlikely.  I don't feel optimistic about the ability of this club to operate in a rich mans playground - can anyone try and present a crumb of optimism and hope in response?  I just don't see a way for Saints to exist in this league in the medium term and each season is a step closer to the moment we do get relegated.

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The club is in limbo at all levels and it's hurting the football business, at all levels.

Until we get an owner with a strategy or a plan then we will continue this way, sleep walking to nothingness really. I think we're quite fortunate to have the local board we have, with the likes of Semmens etc - as I think he's done a fine job with absolutely no backing at all. It's been like polishing a turd really.

The stability (or emptiness in our case) at the top of the club will always filter down to the playing sides. 

So, i agree - if we continue this approach of 'sell before we can buy'' then we will end up going, because it's about to go pop for us. Sell Ings and replace him with a £10m player who has to bed into the league - it's curtains. Ralph needs to grow some balls and tell them where to stick it if that's going to be the continued approach.

I don't think we'll have a takeover by the summer and I fear we will have to face a relegation before we can actually find that stability ownership wise again.

KL has a lot to answer for - Gao was either a massive liar in terms of his plans, or she was just after as much dollar she could get. Sadly I think it's the latter.

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The squad has a lack of quality, no leadership and most of all there are no winners in the team. No amount of good management will change the fact the players are serial losers. And there won’t be enough investment to change that fact

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1 minute ago, S-Clarke said:

The club is in limbo at all levels and it's hurting the football business, at all levels.

Until we get an owner with a strategy or a plan then we will continue this way, sleep walking to nothingness really. I think we're quite fortunate to have the local board we have, with the likes of Semmens etc - as I think he's done a fine job with absolutely no backing at all. It's been like polishing a turd really.

The stability (or emptiness in our case) at the top of the club will always filter down to the playing sides. 

So, i agree - if we continue this approach of 'sell before we can buy'' then we will end up going, because it's about to go pop for us. Sell Ings and replace him with a £10m player who has to bed into the league - it's curtains. Ralph needs to grow some balls and tell them where to stick it if that's going to be the continued approach.

I don't think we'll have a takeover by the summer and I fear we will have to face a relegation before we can actually find that stability ownership wise again.

KL has a lot to answer for - Gao was either a massive liar in terms of his plans, or she was just after as much dollar she could get. Sadly I think it's the latter.

 

I had heard that the Chinese state banned investment in foreign sporting organisations, which I assume means even if Gao wanted to, he wouldn't be allowed to invest in Saints.  So he has to sell really, but I guess selling in a pandemic means he wouldn't get his money back and he'll be refusing to sell at a loss.  So we're stuck in limbo slowly but surely dying.  Happy days.

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You've hit the nail on the head Lallana's Left Peg. This team needs wholesale changes. Realistically we need 6 or 7 decent additions but we can't afford it. Two or three players in the £10m bracket will be more of the same. 

Two things that have kept us going in the past is our academy and selling a star player sometimes even an academy player every now and again for £30m plus. The academy seems to have dried up. None of the youngsters given a chance during the injury crisis looked good enough to break in to the starting 11. Do we have any players who would demand a massive fee? Even Ings with his contract situation wouldn't fetch that much. 

Unfortunately without investment I think we could be facing an uncomfortable season next year.

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14 minutes ago, westmidlandsaint said:

You've hit the nail on the head Lallana's Left Peg. This team needs wholesale changes. Realistically we need 6 or 7 decent additions but we can't afford it. Two or three players in the £10m bracket will be more of the same. 

Two things that have kept us going in the past is our academy and selling a star player sometimes even an academy player every now and again for £30m plus. The academy seems to have dried up. None of the youngsters given a chance during the injury crisis looked good enough to break in to the starting 11. Do we have any players who would demand a massive fee? Even Ings with his contract situation wouldn't fetch that much. 

Unfortunately without investment I think we could be facing an uncomfortable season next year.

I think you and other Saints supporters should get a bit more realistic especially as the clubs coming up next season could be Norwich Watford and Bournemouth which were relegated last season and may possibly relegated next too

You need to accept that SFC has not got the financial clout of most of the clubs in the PL never has and never will that is why it will usually be where it is currently  in the PL table towards the bottom but at least we are a PL team and likely to be one for sometime.

Top class players will not come to the club because we cannot afford them young players will because playing in the League could be a stepping stone to one of the top teams

However performances like yesterday's do not go down well unless we have the rub of the green and win 

We beat Man City last season with a fluky goal last season but that only happens with a bit of good luck.

If Diallo had scored and Leicester's goal had not we would have won and that was their only shot on target Football is a game of fine margins and we would be in our third cup final in my lifetime 

We were lucky to have played against Watford and Crystal Palace to get to those Finals this time we had to play a team in the top 4 of the PL and recent Champions

I am pleased to be a Saints Fan we have played quite well during the last year beating top teams and getting to the Semi Final just because we have had a drastic loss of form lately  that happens in football especially in 1n 1974 when we got relegated after not winning for something like 15 games but I doubt we will get relegated this time.

I have friends who support Ipswich QPR Reading and Nottm Forest and would gladly have our position in the PL

 

 

 

 

 

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The premier league isn't too rich for us, no, there are a lot of teams around our means (Brighton, Burnley, Palace, all three promoted teams next season). We are not rich enough to be perennial top half challengers, but the league doesn't end at 10th. We are funded enough to be in the 9th-16th bracket. Good luck might see us push europe, bad luck might see us get relegated, we are that size. Ofcourse if the top 6 teams leave the league then suddenly we are pretty well funded comparatively! 

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6 hours ago, westmidlandsaint said:

Two or three players in the £10m bracket will be more of the same. 

This sums it up for me. We simply don't have the clout to be spending £20m+ on players. The last time we spent close to that was Ings, and it's obvious he isn't going to stick around past the summer. Over recent seasons, teams like Leicester and West Ham have been able to spend double that on numerous occasions, and the relative quality of their first 11s vs ours reflects that.

We'll never be able to build a squad capable of challenging the top 8/Europe if we persist with scouring the bargain basement for players. And under the current ownership, there's pretty much zero chance of that strategy changing.

We'll survive by the skin of our teeth this season, we'll lose Ings, Bertrand and Vestergaard in the summer and replace them with more of the same cheap options, and we'll probably get relegated next season because at least two of the promoted teams (Norwich and Watford) will outspend us in the transfer market.

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29 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

This sums it up for me. We simply don't have the clout to be spending £20m+ on players. The last time we spent close to that was Ings, and it's obvious he isn't going to stick around past the summer. Over recent seasons, teams like Leicester and West Ham have been able to spend double that on numerous occasions, and the relative quality of their first 11s vs ours reflects that.

We'll never be able to build a squad capable of challenging the top 8/Europe if we persist with scouring the bargain basement for players. And under the current ownership, there's pretty much zero chance of that strategy changing.

We'll survive by the skin of our teeth this season, we'll lose Ings, Bertrand and Vestergaard in the summer and replace them with more of the same cheap options, and we'll probably get relegated next season because at least two of the promoted teams (Norwich and Watford) will outspend us in the transfer market.

Norwich spent £8m in total last time they came up

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Yes, this league you do need to spend to even just stay still.

However, money was available but we have just wasted almost 95% of it and it has left us with no pot to piss in. We've also not moved with the levels of inflation seen in football. Villa spending £25m+ on Watkins, WHU spending £45m on Haller, Everton spending £40m+ on Richarlison/Sigurdsson, Newcastle spending £40m on Joelinton, Leicester spending £40m on Tielemans, £30m on Slimani, Wolves spending £30m+ on players like Silva/Semedo etc. I think even Fulham, Leeds, Watford and Palace have spent more on one player than we have.

Now, you might argue a lot of the names above are duds/poorly spent, and it's true but I do think we should have moved into the £20m-£30m bracket a while ago to scout players who are excelling in the top 10-12 leagues. The other side of the debate is would you trust us to spend that sort of money wisely?

However, WHU have bought Soucek and Coufal at very low prices I think which means bargains do exist, but we have fallen behind horribly on the scouting front/everyone is at it. 

image.png.afe8b1f4c200ac7c544bcc333c620116.png

We have spent c. £254m which seems like majority has been wasted.

Edited by nta786
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5 hours ago, TWar said:

The premier league isn't too rich for us, no, there are a lot of teams around our means (Brighton, Burnley, Palace, all three promoted teams next season). We are not rich enough to be perennial top half challengers, but the league doesn't end at 10th. We are funded enough to be in the 9th-16th bracket. Good luck might see us push europe, bad luck might see us get relegated, we are that size. Ofcourse if the top 6 teams leave the league then suddenly we are pretty well funded comparatively! 

If the Super league comes to pass, the PL will be reduced in numbers so that the big 6 can fly around Europe on their whim. (Funny if Brexit put a spanner in the works)

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1 minute ago, OldNick said:

If the Super league comes to pass, the PL will be reduced in numbers so that the big 6 can fly around Europe on their whim. (Funny if Brexit put a spanner in the works)

I think if the Super league happens then we will kick the 6 teams out the league and replace them by promoting top 6 teams from the championship, I don't think the prem will just let themselves get pushed around on this.

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16 minutes ago, skintsaint said:

at an average of 13m or so per player looking at that. #bargainbasement

I have to say your username checks out perfectly there ;)

But otherwise yes.

We might have been better off buying 10 players in the £20m region and a few in the £5m to £8m except we’ve spent a loads on distinct nothingness.

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1 hour ago, nta786 said:

Yes, this league you do need to spend to even just stay still.

However, money was available but we have just wasted almost 95% of it and it has left us with no pot to piss in. We've also not moved with the levels of inflation seen in football. Villa spending £25m+ on Watkins, WHU spending £45m on Haller, Everton spending £40m+ on Richarlison/Sigurdsson, Newcastle spending £40m on Joelinton, Leicester spending £40m on Tielemans, £30m on Slimani, Wolves spending £30m+ on players like Silva/Semedo etc. I think even Fulham, Leeds, Watford and Palace have spent more on one player than we have.

Now, you might argue a lot of the names above are duds/poorly spent, and it's true but I do think we should have moved into the £20m-£30m bracket a while ago to scout players who are excelling in the top 10-12 leagues. The other side of the debate is would you trust us to spend that sort of money wisely?

However, WHU have bought Soucek and Coufal at very low prices I think which means bargains do exist, but we have fallen behind horribly on the scouting front/everyone is at it. 

image.png.afe8b1f4c200ac7c544bcc333c620116.png

We have spent c. £254m which seems like majority has been wasted.

Thanks for these.  I thought that you had missed out Osvaldo but I found out that he ws bought in 2013 😨

Who remembers Florín Gardos for £6.12m? And Juanmi was £6.3m. Let's not also forget the wages bill that these players have soaked up. Also there are the payoffs to sacked managers.

I wouldn't expect every one to be a success but there has been a lot of money flushed down the toilet.

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47 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Thanks for these.  I thought that you had missed out Osvaldo but I found out that he ws bought in 2013 😨

Who remembers Florín Gardos for £6.12m? And Juanmi was £6.3m. Let's not also forget the wages bill that these players have soaked up. Also there are the payoffs to sacked managers.

I wouldn't expect every one to be a success but there has been a lot of money flushed down the toilet.

I don’t mind the Juanmi transfers or the Gardos transfers though.

These were low transfers, and also players on low wages which means we can get rid easily if they don’t work out. See Bednarek for example where if they do play well then they could end up being a starter for us.

 

We should take these odd punts where feasible. It’s the other transfers where we are paying £50k - £80k per week to players who haven’t made it but then become unsellable and a burden on our finances.

Edited by nta786
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The only club that has to get a profit from transfers in the premier league, that was skint before the pandemic. Yes i'd say with the current model we have then the premier league is too rich for us. It shouldn't be when you've got clubs no bigger than us able to outspend us.

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30 minutes ago, nta786 said:

I don’t mind the Juanmi transfers or the Gardos transfers though.

These were low transfers, and also players on low wages which means we can get rid easily if they don’t work out. See Bednarek for example where if they do play well then they could end up being a starter for us.

 

We should take these odd punts where feasible. It’s the other transfers where we are paying £50k - £80k per week to players who haven’t made it but then become unsellable and a burden on our finances.

Gardos wasn't a bad signing, he was quite a good player, he got a bad injury which basically ended his career, he's only played about 20 times since leaving us returning the Romanian league. Juanmi and Mayuka were low cost risks, i think we recouped the fee for Juanmi and Mayuka was only £3m, although quite why he was signed when we had Billy Sharp already is a strange one as it was pretty clear from day one is was never going to be good enough. 

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15 minutes ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

I find it highly embarrassing that Bournemouth's record transfer is more than ours. Bournemouth.

I don't find that embarrassing at all? How many seasons have they finished above us? If I was a Bournemouth fan, I wouldn't be on an open top bus ride because we had a higher transfer fee..I would be concerned over who is higher in the league table!

 

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21 minutes ago, Pedantic Pete said:

I don't find that embarrassing at all? How many seasons have they finished above us? If I was a Bournemouth fan, I wouldn't be on an open top bus ride because we had a higher transfer fee..I would be concerned over who is higher in the league table!

 

Don't care about that. They are a club with a capacity of 12,000, yet they still outspent us when they were in the Premier League. That is embarrassing.

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40 minutes ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

Don't care about that. They are a club with a capacity of 12,000, yet they still outspent us when they were in the Premier League. That is embarrassing.

Not being funny or belittling your opinion but that is crazy IMO. You are saying worth is only measured in the value of the transfer fee paid?

So you would rather we had spent 25m on Lermer than the 20m on Ings just so you can boast to a Bournemouth fan that our record transfer fee is higher?   Would you be happy if we had paid 26m on Carillo just so we had a higher record transfer fee?

It's an interesting concept.

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53 minutes ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

Don't care about that. They are a club with a capacity of 12,000, yet they still outspent us when they were in the Premier League. That is embarrassing.

Therein lies the answer. Gate receipts have long ceased to be the major source of income for any club.

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We get about £100 million each year from being in the PL. If we were run properly and had decent scouts it wouldn't be too rich for us to remain a mid-table team.

Of course if the big six succeed in destroying the PL we'll have a massive drop in revenue but still stuck with a huge debts and wage bill. i.e. fucked.

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1 hour ago, Pedantic Pete said:

I don't find that embarrassing at all? How many seasons have they finished above us? If I was a Bournemouth fan, I wouldn't be on an open top bus ride because we had a higher transfer fee..I would be concerned over who is higher in the league table!

 

Surely that’s all the more reason for them not to have a bigger record transfer fee than us?

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11 minutes ago, Pedantic Pete said:

Not being funny or belittling your opinion but that is crazy IMO. You are saying worth is only measured in the value of the transfer fee paid?

So you would rather we had spent 25m on Lermer than the 20m on Ings just so you can boast to a Bournemouth fan that our record transfer fee is higher?   Would you be happy if we had paid 26m on Carillo just so we had a higher record transfer fee?

It's an interesting concept.

It's not about that. The point I am trying to make is that a club the size of Bournemouth can now outspend us. I find that utterly embarrassing. It was only a few years ago that they nearly got relegated out of the football league. 

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14 minutes ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

It's not about that. The point I am trying to make is that a club the size of Bournemouth can now outspend us. I find that utterly embarrassing. It was only a few years ago that they nearly got relegated out of the football league. 

But did they outspend us? We spunked millions and millions on players who didn't make the grade. This suggests we spent more than them over any period I choose. (perhaps I have the settings wrong?)

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/premier-league/einnahmenausgaben/wettbewerb/GB1/plus/0?ids=a&sa=&saison_id=2015&saison_id_bis=2019&nat=&pos=&altersklasse=&w_s=&leihe=&intern=0

If you are talking net spend then this article suggests that from 2015 to 2019 Bournemouths net spend was the 11th highest in Europe and more even than Liverpool's..Does that mean every other team in Europe (apart from those 10 higher) should be embarrassed?- Including Liverpool who went on to win the league..I bet their fans were thinking, this is nice but I would rather that we had finished 12th and spent more! 🙂

https://www.football365.com/news/europes-biggest-net-spends-since-2015-bournemouth-leapfrog-liverpool

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1 minute ago, Pedantic Pete said:

But did they outspend us? We spunked millions and millions on players who didn't make the grade. This suggests we spent more than them over any period I choose. (perhaps I have the settings wrong?)

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/premier-league/einnahmenausgaben/wettbewerb/GB1/plus/0?ids=a&sa=&saison_id=2015&saison_id_bis=2019&nat=&pos=&altersklasse=&w_s=&leihe=&intern=0

If you are talking net spend then this article suggests that from 2015 to 2019 Bournemouths net spend was the 11th highest in Europe and more even than Liverpool's..Does that mean every other team in Europe (apart from those 10 higher) should be embarrassed?- Including Liverpool who went on to win the league..I bet their fans were thinking, this is nice but I would rather that we had finished 12th and spent more! 🙂

https://www.football365.com/news/europes-biggest-net-spends-since-2015-bournemouth-leapfrog-liverpool

How is it despite being in the premier league since 2012 that we are the only club to make a profit from transfers yet are still skint?

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Just now, Turkish said:

How is it despite being in the premier league since 2012 that we are the only club to make a profit from transfers yet are still skint?

That's interesting and reflects on the poor running of the club but the discussion was about whether we should be embarrassed that Bournemouth have a higher record transfer and/or spent more money than us (which they didn't?)

My assumption is that we paid better wages- mostly to players who only played a handful of games between them- and therefore managed to waste a lot..Again this may be a work of fiction- i haven't checked its sources- but it suggests we had a much higher wage bill than Bournemouth. 

https://www.footballfancast.com/exclude/every-premier-league-clubs-wage-bill-in-2019-2020/11

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On 19/04/2021 at 09:47, Whitey Grandad said:

It’s difficult to complain about lack of funding when you consider how much money we’ve frittered away in the last few seasons. If somebody feels up to making a list it would make for sorrowful reading.

I do not think e have not frittered away money we have just bought some players who did not fit into our team and the PL

 

Although buying Carillio I agree was a ridiculous signing but the others in my opinion were not

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On 19/04/2021 at 21:26, Pedantic Pete said:

But did they outspend us? We spunked millions and millions on players who didn't make the grade. This suggests we spent more than them over any period I choose. (perhaps I have the settings wrong?)

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/premier-league/einnahmenausgaben/wettbewerb/GB1/plus/0?ids=a&sa=&saison_id=2015&saison_id_bis=2019&nat=&pos=&altersklasse=&w_s=&leihe=&intern=0

If you are talking net spend then this article suggests that from 2015 to 2019 Bournemouths net spend was the 11th highest in Europe and more even than Liverpool's..Does that mean every other team in Europe (apart from those 10 higher) should be embarrassed?- Including Liverpool who went on to win the league..I bet their fans were thinking, this is nice but I would rather that we had finished 12th and spent more! 🙂

https://www.football365.com/news/europes-biggest-net-spends-since-2015-bournemouth-leapfrog-liverpool


So when ranked by net spend we have the "2nd best" net spend of remaining teams (the trend here should be obvious to everyone when you consider that only us and Burnley are still in the league...)

# club competition Expenditure Arrivals Income Departures Balance
1 Swansea City Swansea City England Championship £226.41m 198 £312.64m 208 £86.23m
2 Wigan Athletic Wigan Athletic England League One £46.51m 286 £78.13m 303 £31.62m
3 Norwich City Norwich City England Championship £160.92m 238 £180.20m 231 £19.28m
4 Hull City Hull City England League One £149.38m 226 £137.84m 231 £-11.55m
5 Reading FC Reading FC England Championship £59.04m 232 £39.18m 243 £-19.86m
6 Huddersfield Town Huddersfield Town England Championship £120.01m 235 £96.24m 237 £-23.76m
7 Middlesbrough FC Middlesbrough FC England Championship £161.82m 219 £129.30m 231 £-32.52m
8 Queens Park Rangers Queens Park Rangers England Championship £129.47m 272 £94.74m 286 £-34.73m
9 Sunderland AFC Sunderland AFC England League One £187.85m 223 £126.35m 233 £-61.49m
10 Burnley FC Burnley FC England Premier League £162.41m 166 £96.08m 170 £-66.34m
11 Southampton FC Southampton FC England Premier League £475.65m 167 £399.45m 168 £-76.20m
12 Leeds United Leeds United England Premier League £157.32m 236 £77.28m 231 £-80.04m
13 Cardiff City Cardiff City England Championship £150.88m 239 £67.61m 243 £-83.27m
14 Watford FC Watford FC England Championship £282.38m 287 £198.95m 277 £-83.42m
15 AFC Bournemouth AFC Bournemouth England Championship £256.10m 213 £159.62m 217 £-96.48m
16 Sheffield United Sheffield United England Premier League £135.24m 259 £26.09m 259 £-109.14m
17 West Bromwich Albion West Bromwich Albion England Premier League £232.84m 153 £117.75m 156 £-115.09m
18 Crystal Palace Crystal Palace England Premier League £258.16m 213 £138.23m 212 £-119.93m
19 Stoke City Stoke City England Championship £228.96m 187 £89.89m 185 £-139.07m
20 Fulham FC Fulham FC England Premier League £271.68m 242 £124.94m 245 £-146.74m
21 Leicester City Leicester City England Premier League £486.42m 188 £332.08m 187 £-154.35m
22 Newcastle United Newcastle United England Premier League £423.99m 187 £251.31m 192 £-172.68m
23 Tottenham Hotspur Tottenham Hotspur England Premier League £703.13m 149 £523.94m 160 £-179.19m
24 Wolverhampton Wanderers Wolverhampton Wanderers England Premier League £363.99m 281 £170.17m 290 £-193.81m
25 Brighton & Hove Albion Brighton & Hove Albion England Premier League £259.98m 246 £56.74m 240 £-203.24m

2012/13 onwards.

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1 hour ago, Saint86 said:


So when ranked by net spend we have the "best" net spend of remaining teams (the trend here should be obvious to everyone when you consider that only us and Burnley are above us (in the net spend table) and still in the league...)

# club competition Expenditure Arrivals Income Departures Balance
1 Swansea City Swansea City England Championship £226.41m 198 £312.64m 208 £86.23m
2 Wigan Athletic Wigan Athletic England League One £46.51m 286 £78.13m 303 £31.62m
3 Norwich City Norwich City England Championship £160.92m 238 £180.20m 231 £19.28m
4 Hull City Hull City England League One £149.38m 226 £137.84m 231 £-11.55m
5 Reading FC Reading FC England Championship £59.04m 232 £39.18m 243 £-19.86m
6 Huddersfield Town Huddersfield Town England Championship £120.01m 235 £96.24m 237 £-23.76m
7 Middlesbrough FC Middlesbrough FC England Championship £161.82m 219 £129.30m 231 £-32.52m
8 Queens Park Rangers Queens Park Rangers England Championship £129.47m 272 £94.74m 286 £-34.73m
9 Sunderland AFC Sunderland AFC England League One £187.85m 223 £126.35m 233 £-61.49m
10 Burnley FC Burnley FC England Premier League £162.41m 166 £96.08m 170 £-66.34m
11 Southampton FC Southampton FC England Premier League £475.65m 167 £399.45m 168 £-76.20m
12 Leeds United Leeds United England Premier League £157.32m 236 £77.28m 231 £-80.04m
13 Cardiff City Cardiff City England Championship £150.88m 239 £67.61m 243 £-83.27m
14 Watford FC Watford FC England Championship £282.38m 287 £198.95m 277 £-83.42m
15 AFC Bournemouth AFC Bournemouth England Championship £256.10m 213 £159.62m 217 £-96.48m
16 Sheffield United Sheffield United England Premier League £135.24m 259 £26.09m 259 £-109.14m
17 West Bromwich Albion West Bromwich Albion England Premier League £232.84m 153 £117.75m 156 £-115.09m
18 Crystal Palace Crystal Palace England Premier League £258.16m 213 £138.23m 212 £-119.93m
19 Stoke City Stoke City England Championship £228.96m 187 £89.89m 185 £-139.07m
20 Fulham FC Fulham FC England Premier League £271.68m 242 £124.94m 245 £-146.74m
21 Leicester City Leicester City England Premier League £486.42m 188 £332.08m 187 £-154.35m
22 Newcastle United Newcastle United England Premier League £423.99m 187 £251.31m 192 £-172.68m
23 Tottenham Hotspur Tottenham Hotspur England Premier League £703.13m 149 £523.94m 160 £-179.19m
24 Wolverhampton Wanderers Wolverhampton Wanderers England Premier League £363.99m 281 £170.17m 290 £-193.81m
25 Brighton & Hove Albion Brighton & Hove Albion England Premier League £259.98m 246 £56.74m 240 £-203.24m

 

What period is this over? Apart from Spurs and Leicester we spent more than all the others (including Bournemouth which is what the discussion was about).

 

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1 hour ago, Pedantic Pete said:

What period is this over? Apart from Spurs and Leicester we spent more than all the others (including Bournemouth which is what the discussion was about).

 

2012/13 onwards.

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Its too rich for us right now. Unless we get a new owner who is willing to match the spending of the likes of Leeds, Villa, Wolves (what I would call tier 3 clubs after the Big 6 and then the likes of Leicester, Everton, West Ham) then we'll forever remain in that small group of clubs looming over the trap door most seasons until we finally fall through it. 

When we were relegated from the PL in 04/05 I was devastated. If we were to be relegated next season I honestly wouldnt be fussed. The PL is stagnant with at least half the clubs ambitions just being to tread water, VAR is ruining games, broadcasters dictating more and more. A couple of seasons in the championship would be much more appealing. Would also help us clear out the players who dont want to be here or not good enough to be here

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6 hours ago, the colonel said:

and what good did it do them!?

A very small club with a ground that holds 12k max,  were able to stay up in the prem for a few season, mostly playing good football.

Edited by AlexLaw76
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It’s an interesting question. We should be fine but we’ve run into trouble because Kat was desperate to sell and took the money of someone who was not fit for purpose in any way.
 

Add this to what is essentially a club that despite all the PR, is run really badly. I know a few people who work for, or who have worked for and some of the things I’ve been told are laughable, baffling and incompetent. And this is from the very top, across football and commercial. The saving grace is the people at the lower levels give a shit and somehow make things work as best they can.

In some ways, the football club is a reflection of the city it is in: has opportunities but does it’s best to avoid taking them and makes it harder/worse than it needs to be. 


But as long as we are in the Premier League with its TV money, it can survive as a shit show because it doesn’t really need to be well run. 

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Short answer to the question is yes and that's obvious from our accounts. 

Our outgoings exceed our income and we're having to borrow to bridge the gap. 

The only solution is to have an owner chucking in millions that he'll never get back (if he has it) so that ain't happening. 

The alternative is to sell players and use the money to plug the financial gap, but without players we kind of have a problem. 

Our model of buying players cheap, improving them and selling on has been hit hard by shit player recruitment. There's been the double whammy of players not only failing to improve to make us a profit, but they've not even been good enough so have needed to be replaced. There was always that danger though. 

So yep, without a sugar daddy with more money than sense, this league is too rich for us. 

 

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  • 1 month later...

Bumping this ahead of the summer.  The talk of giving loaned out players a second chance is confirmation we're broke.  There is a lot to fix this summer and it all revolves around money - shipping out players for it and spending the required amount on it.

 

I'll start with a little poll - anyone think we'll outspend a single other team in our division this summer - including the promoted teams?  I can only see us and Burnley fighting it out for that honour.  It's pathetic.  Takeover needed.

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