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Is the Premier League too rich for us?


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Sandcastle United..................who would have thought the British  Government would allow such a sensative takeover?...............human rights?...........

still half time entertainment live from Riyadh should be good.............................

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1 hour ago, Roo1976 said:

Sandcastle United..................who would have thought the British  Government would allow such a sensative takeover?...............human rights?...........

still half time entertainment live from Riyadh should be good.............................

"... give them all a big hand everyone"

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Anyone that says they wouldn’t like that kind of investment at Saints is a liar, regardless of who it is splashing the cash. 
 

I know it got everyone’s panties in a twist but Jamie O’Hara was right, we are the dross in this league, and despite a purple patch last season have been for the last 4 years now.

As mentioned above we’ve been here for 10 years now whilst others have yo-yo’d or dropped as far as league 2, and we’ve got fuck all to show for it.

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11 minutes ago, bpsaint said:

Anyone that says they wouldn’t like that kind of investment at Saints is a liar, regardless of who it is splashing the cash. 
 

I know it got everyone’s panties in a twist but Jamie O’Hara was right, we are the dross in this league, and despite a purple patch last season have been for the last 4 years now.

As mentioned above we’ve been here for 10 years now whilst others have yo-yo’d or dropped as far as league 2, and we’ve got fuck all to show for it.

Its a success story to have stayed up ten years, what are you moaning about? We've done it without the capital investment the rich guys have had. Others come and go, we carry on without the riches, and we are still there--be proud

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20 minutes ago, Dellman said:

Its a success story to have stayed up ten years, what are you moaning about? We've done it without the capital investment the rich guys have had. Others come and go, we carry on without the riches, and we are still there--be proud

I’m not moaning - I’m simply stating what have we got to show for it? We’re just making up the numbers.

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42 minutes ago, bpsaint said:

Anyone that says they wouldn’t like that kind of investment at Saints is a liar, regardless of who it is splashing the cash. 
 

I know it got everyone’s panties in a twist but Jamie O’Hara was right, we are the dross in this league, and despite a purple patch last season have been for the last 4 years now.

As mentioned above we’ve been here for 10 years now whilst others have yo-yo’d or dropped as far as league 2, and we’ve got fuck all to show for it.

Disagree there - we've had two forays (well one proper one) into Europe, have had the likes of Mane/VVD/Tadic come play with us for a bit etc etc and in last 4 years have had 2/3 okay cup runs which we couldn't sadly capitalise on.

Look, we're Southampton, I know what we are and in this unequal league we're doing well clinging on. It could be far worse right now, we could have been Coventry or even like our neighbours down the road... 

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15 minutes ago, bpsaint said:

I’m not moaning - I’m simply stating what have we got to show for it? We’re just making up the numbers.

To be fair, I expect most clubs in the leagues below would have swapped places for 10 years in the Prem, a cup final, a couple of semi-finals and two seasons in Europe. 

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1 hour ago, bpsaint said:

As mentioned above we’ve been here for 10 years now whilst others have yo-yo’d or dropped as far as league 2, and we’ve got fuck all to show for it.

Who really apart from the mega-rich clubs can really say anything different? Teams like Everton have massively outspent us since we came up and their most recent league finishes are 10th, 12th, 8th, 8th, 7th, 11th and 11th

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2 hours ago, Lighthouse said:

Who really apart from the mega-rich clubs can really say anything different? Teams like Everton have massively outspent us since we came up and their most recent league finishes are 10th, 12th, 8th, 8th, 7th, 11th and 11th

and amusing to see Everton hit their FFP cap and having to resort to getting rid of their top earner and bringing in bargain basement players now. I'm sure Newcastle wont care about the FFP rules and just pay the 50m quid fine they will get for breaking the rules.

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6 hours ago, bpsaint said:

I’m not moaning - I’m simply stating what have we got to show for it? We’re just making up the numbers.

Before we got relegated the first time we had 25 odd consecutive seasons in the top flight, and by your metric we had "fuck all to show for" that as well.

Without saying the word Leicester, can you give us some other clubs that have lots and lots to "show for" in the last decade or so?

Birmingham City won the League Cup i guess. Wigan. You tell me.

 

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6 hours ago, Lighthouse said:

Who really apart from the mega-rich clubs can really say anything different? Teams like Everton have massively outspent us since we came up and their most recent league finishes are 10th, 12th, 8th, 8th, 7th, 11th and 11th

Well it's all about Villa now: they are the one that have spent a few quid and now have the "platform" to invest and grow and build and next season invest and grow and build and next season invest and grow and build and so on and so on until people realise these clubs don't achieve the thing they think they will at the end of a jolly exciting transfer window, they just finish eighth again. And again.

People moaned and moaned like fuck when we didn't "build on" our sixth place finish but I have still yet to see any club our size do any better than we did in terms of "building" on.

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What happens once all the clubs have been taken over by mega rich owners? They can't all win something.

Also, I've lost track of FPP but how does that work with Newcastle? Can they just go out and spunk £500 million on players in January?

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I really hope they push and get their way of having the odd game in Riyadh at some point in the future. They may realise they haven’t ‘got their club back’ they have lost to Saudi state PR machine. Amazing that piracy and upsetting Bein tv was the big sticking point and not state (the new Newcastle owners) ordered butchering of a journalist with a bone saw. 
would absolutely love it if by some miracle they got relegated this season.

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34 minutes ago, whelk said:

 

I really hope they push and get their way of having the odd game in Riyadh at some point in the future. They may realise they haven’t ‘got their club back’ they have lost to Saudi state PR machine. Amazing that piracy and upsetting Bein tv was the big sticking point and not state (the new Newcastle owners) ordered butchering of a journalist with a bone saw. 
would absolutely love it if by some miracle they got relegated this season.

I agree with this, also if people think we are finding Gao harder to shake off than a small dog humping your leg, it will be impossible to shake the sheiks off.

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First off, if we got taken over by the Saudis or some other person as rich as Croesus, then I wouldn't mind joining the top table. Of course I could ignore the bigger picture as we'd be all right Jack. 

But we aren't. I can be negative about it all.

We all know that owners now aren't the local businessman with a connection to the club. We all know that clubs are effectively franchises, and owners have little thought for the fans. Hence why they are happy for overseas games, the Super League, etc etc. As one journo said, the PL isn't English football, it's football in England. It seems nothing other than an exercise in how much money an owner can get away with spending without falling foul of FFP, errr, rules!

I'll stand by what I've always said. What is the point of being in a competition that we've got no chance of winning? I seem to always be saying that the current season is going to be my last, but I do think that something has changed and this one really will be. I don't look forward going to SMS any more. I didn't enjoy the Wolves game. I take my lad or my nephew and they enjoy it, which is why I really go.

I guess the problems might be of interest around the Champions League. Some of the rich owners in the PL are going to miss out. So then what happens? Change of format? What about the European Super League (or whatever it was called)? I suspect that if it ever went ahead, the Saudis might not be so keen to be excluded. 

Going back to the point about PL being football in England rather than English football, it's very easy to solve. Maximum of 2 overseas players. Of course that will never happen.

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Our best hope of winning another trophy is to win either the League Cup or the FA Cup and, in spite of 1976, we'll have a lot better chance of doing that if we stay in the Premier League. Another bonus is the occasional foray into Europe, and games with teams like Inter Milan willl always be highlights of a lifetime supporting Saints. As for winning the league, how many times did we ever win the Championship or the old Division 2? Our history shows, there is more chance of us being relegated from it than ever winning it.

The best you can hope for in the Championship is to get promoted to the Premier League, which is what every team in it is aiming for and now that they've succeeded in doing so Brentford fans are living the Championship fans' dream. Fans of clubs still stuck down there are looking at them enviously.

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15 minutes ago, Nordic Saint said:

The best you can hope for in the Championship is to get promoted to the Premier League, which is what every team in it is aiming for and now that they've succeeded in doing so Brentford fans are living the Championship fans' dream. Fans of clubs still stuck down there are looking at them enviously.

Yeah, why is that? What is it about the Premier League in particular that makes it more attractive to the true football fan?

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9 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Yeah, why is that? What is it about the Premier League in particular that makes it more attractive to the true football fan?

I've been going to Saints games since 1963 and I consider myself a true football fan. For me, it's the top flight and you get to see the best players. Being in it brings prestige to the club you support, whereas being out of it, like Portsmouth are at the moment, can leave you feeling envious. Like many old fans, I'm a bit of a traditionalist and would prefer things to stay the same. I was happy enough with the old Division 1 but everything changes over time and we have to accept that. It's still the top tier of English football and that's where a club of our size belongs. Fans of clubs like Derby and Nottingham Forest, currently stuck in the 2nd tier, will be feeling the same way.

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20 minutes ago, Nordic Saint said:

I've been going to Saints games since 1963 and I consider myself a true football fan. For me, it's the top flight and you get to see the best players. Being in it brings prestige to the club you support, whereas being out of it, like Portsmouth are at the moment, can leave you feeling envious. Like many old fans, I'm a bit of a traditionalist and would prefer things to stay the same. I was happy enough with the old Division 1 but everything changes over time and we have to accept that. It's still the top tier of English football and that's where a club of our size belongs. Fans of clubs like Derby and Nottingham Forest, currently stuck in the 2nd tier, will be feeling the same way.

Totally agree,however you must sense that if we fail to get somewhere near  this sort of investment soon,the writing is on the wall.

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We will be relegated very soon under Gao.  We were told he was going to take us to the next level; which was pure PR bollox.

When we are relegated, we will be in deep shit. The huge load we have will still need to be paid!

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8 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

We will be relegated very soon under Gao.  We were told he was going to take us to the next level; which was pure PR bollox.

When we are relegated, we will be in deep shit. The huge load we have will still need to be paid!

Correct. At that point, Gao is going to have to take £25-50m if he is lucky, the new owner takes on the loan in their business plan. If Gao tries to hang on, MSD ends up with the keys which is why Derby will be fascinating to watch as it’s probably SFC 12-18 months down the line. There’s no Mel Morris to keep pumping funds in, however recklessly it was done. 

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2 hours ago, angelman said:

First off, if we got taken over by the Saudis or some other person as rich as Croesus, then I wouldn't mind joining the top table. Of course I could ignore the bigger picture as we'd be all right Jack. 

But we aren't. I can be negative about it all.

We all know that owners now aren't the local businessman with a connection to the club. We all know that clubs are effectively franchises, and owners have little thought for the fans. Hence why they are happy for overseas games, the Super League, etc etc. As one journo said, the PL isn't English football, it's football in England. It seems nothing other than an exercise in how much money an owner can get away with spending without falling foul of FFP, errr, rules!

I'll stand by what I've always said. What is the point of being in a competition that we've got no chance of winning? I seem to always be saying that the current season is going to be my last, but I do think that something has changed and this one really will be. I don't look forward going to SMS any more. I didn't enjoy the Wolves game. I take my lad or my nephew and they enjoy it, which is why I really go.

I guess the problems might be of interest around the Champions League. Some of the rich owners in the PL are going to miss out. So then what happens? Change of format? What about the European Super League (or whatever it was called)? I suspect that if it ever went ahead, the Saudis might not be so keen to be excluded. 

Going back to the point about PL being football in England rather than English football, it's very easy to solve. Maximum of 2 overseas players. Of course that will never happen.

Good post. CL is an issue if they do spend like City and flout FFP. Spurs have huge stadium debts and likely to lose out on top 4, Arsenal still a long way off paying for Emirates although Wenger got them through the worst bits for all the flak he took. So if we say City and Newcastle regular CL, it leaves Man U, Chelsea, Liverpool, Spurs and Arsenal fighting it out. Leicester’s owners have been great for them and probably invested enough in the place to not pull the plug and keep them in EL contention. Villa and Everton are in the next group but priced out of the top table, do the owners consider £400m spending enough for 10th. Tap already turned off at Wolves, they could be in SFC’s position in 2 years. Basically PL will become a league of two halves.

Gao wanting sustainability doesn’t bother me but sometimes you need an owner to help with underwriting the pandemic losses and occasionally when the manager needs a CB so we can compete 11-17th. That and the murky circumstances around him buying SFC are why I want a clean slate and him gone. Someone with some interest and investment in more senses than just financial. 

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1 hour ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Yeah, why is that? What is it about the Premier League in particular that makes it more attractive to the true football fan?

Its about bragging to your fellow lower league fans i suppose, wouldnt they rather be in your position maybe? dunno ............but once you choose your club your hooked on them for better or worse thick and thin.

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7 minutes ago, saint1977 said:

Good post. CL is an issue if they do spend like City and flout FFP. Spurs have huge stadium debts and likely to lose out on top 4, Arsenal still a long way off paying for Emirates although Wenger got them through the worst bits for all the flak he took. So if we say City and Newcastle regular CL, it leaves Man U, Chelsea, Liverpool, Spurs and Arsenal fighting it out. Leicester’s owners have been great for them and probably invested enough in the place to not pull the plug and keep them in EL contention. Villa and Everton are in the next group but priced out of the top table, do the owners consider £400m spending enough for 10th. Tap already turned off at Wolves, they could be in SFC’s position in 2 years. Basically PL will become a league of two halves.

Gao wanting sustainability doesn’t bother me but sometimes you need an owner to help with underwriting the pandemic losses and occasionally when the manager needs a CB so we can compete 11-17th. That and the murky circumstances around him buying SFC are why I want a clean slate and him gone. Someone with some interest and investment in more senses than just financial. 

Nice read,thats exactly how other than the big 4-5 financially rich clubs see the rest of us, just making the occasional surprise inroad into their domain.

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13 hours ago, bpsaint said:

Anyone that says they wouldn’t like that kind of investment at Saints is a liar, regardless of who it is splashing the cash. 
 

I know it got everyone’s panties in a twist but Jamie O’Hara was right, we are the dross in this league, and despite a purple patch last season have been for the last 4 years now.

As mentioned above we’ve been here for 10 years now whilst others have yo-yo’d or dropped as far as league 2, and we’ve got fuck all to show for it.

Well, I for one wouldn't, and I hope that those who know me don't consider that I am a liar.

I like the point above, imagine that every club in the current Premier league received similar investment to that which NUFC are about to get. Would every club's fans be equally excited, and expect to win everything?

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26 minutes ago, saint1977 said:

Gao wanting sustainability doesn’t bother me but sometimes you need an owner to help with underwriting the pandemic losses and occasionally when the manager needs a CB so we can compete 11-17th. That and the murky circumstances around him buying SFC are why I want a clean slate and him gone. Someone with some interest and investment in more senses than just financial. 

I agree with the sustainability part, as all businesses should be run along those lines. Of course we know that it's a euphemism for not putting any external funding in, which is fine, unless you are the only one following that model. As we all know it is now a league of various parts. The Big Boys plus an interloper or two (maybe). A couple more knocking on their glass ceiling. And the rest which is basically bottom half.

So the question is for us, is the PL too rich for us to compete 11-17? I think with our model it is.

The elephant in the room is - with Gao of course wanting to maintain value of SFC, while not investing - relegation. 

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Well, that’s Newcastle off the list of teams I thought we could always give a good game against.

Let’s put this in context, their owners are 15? times richer than City’s owners. 

There are probably about six teams in the league now I think we can realistically expect to beat. 
 

40 points every year is a tough ask going forward.

 

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This is another nail in our coffin, without an owner with cash it's just a matter of time before we end up in the Championship.

Just shows that the Premier League has no morals whatsoever, they literally have let a murderer buy a football club. I don't want us to go down but when we do part of me will be glad to get out of it, it's turning into a farce no with the difference in resources between the clubs, City have shown that FFP is just a joke.

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5 hours ago, The Cat said:

What happens once all the clubs have been taken over by mega rich owners? They can't all win something.

 

I'm still amazed that the Bundesliga has any good players whatsoever. Why aren't they all just playing for the Billionaire teams already?

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I don't like the way it is heading, I haven't for a long while. I've become very jaded with top flight football. I'd be very happy to see the league equalised as they do in other codes, american football and aussie rules both have the draft system in place, I'd prefer to see salary caps, I'd prefer to see spending aligned to home attendances or something similar. At that point its the best coached and run clubs that will succeed. 

It seems like there is an out of control race to the bottom happening before our eyes.

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8 minutes ago, aintforever said:

This is another nail in our coffin, without an owner with cash it's just a matter of time before we end up in the Championship.

Just shows that the Premier League has no morals whatsoever, they literally have let a murderer buy a football club. I don't want us to go down but when we do part of me will be glad to get out of it, it's turning into a farce no with the difference in resources between the clubs, City have shown that FFP is just a joke.

That's only if you think that the Premier League is the only place to be. If you love football and love your club then it shouldn't matter what league you play in.

The premier League has become a rich man's plaything. In fact it's more than that now. It's a rich country's plaything. There is so much money involved that there is no room left for true sport in any version of the concept. TV has bought its soul and has paid so much for it that it has to hype up every aspect of the game. I shake my head in sorrow over what has become of the beautiful game.

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The cold hard truth is that if Saints were taken over by the Saudis, the majority of fans would be reacting the same as Newcastle fans.

As far as I am concerned they'll be just another fat cat club I can enjoy Saints upsetting on a few occasions.

To keep things regional,  I wouldn't be surprised to see Sky push a minted owner our way or more likely Bristol.

Personally I'm not bothered. I don't care which league Saints are in (well I do but you get my point). I'll enjoy watching them wherever. The Championship certainly isn't a bad league, and we can't be far from a PL2 now. A back door way to a super league.

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41 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

That's only if you think that the Premier League is the only place to be. If you love football and love your club then it shouldn't matter what league you play in.

The premier League has become a rich man's plaything. In fact it's more than that now. It's a rich country's plaything. There is so much money involved that there is no room left for true sport in any version of the concept. TV has bought its soul and has paid so much for it that it has to hype up every aspect of the game. I shake my head in sorrow over what has become of the beautiful game.

I don’t have a problem with playing in the championship, I have a problem with the pain and humiliation of relegation followed by the fire sale. Look what happened last time. 

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Many of you post on here how great it is to be part of the premier league and how wonderful it is to see so many great players. Sure you are all over the moon about this, great news for those of you happy to be part of this great brand

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26 minutes ago, Toussaint said:

I don’t have a problem with playing in the championship, I have a problem with the pain and humiliation of relegation followed by the fire sale. Look what happened last time. 

Really? Where is the humiliation except in the dark cellars of your own mind?

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27 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Many of you post on here how great it is to be part of the premier league and how wonderful it is to see so many great players. Sure you are all over the moon about this, great news for those of you happy to be part of this great brand

Could you please post in English next time. I didn't understand a word of this somewhat vacuous contribution.

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1 hour ago, Whitey Grandad said:

That's only if you think that the Premier League is the only place to be. If you love football and love your club then it shouldn't matter what league you play in.

The premier League has become a rich man's plaything. In fact it's more than that now. It's a rich country's plaything. There is so much money involved that there is no room left for true sport in any version of the concept. TV has bought its soul and has paid so much for it that it has to hype up every aspect of the game. I shake my head in sorrow over what has become of the beautiful game.

To be fair 'though Whitey the quality of football in the PL has gone up in leaps and bounds in the last few years and is far better now than it has ever been. At the highest levels it has become truly "the beautiful game" and exhilaratingly exciting to watch as a neutral. 

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Some interesting views around morality and fan experience of supporting your team.  Both mean something to fans but not to the club I would say.  Relegation is catastrophic for Saints and the club would not want it.  Martin Semmens having previously spoke about investment from parties that the fans would not warm up has also on the other hand signed off commercial deals with betting companies and crypto-currency companies under the grounds of income for the club to remain competitive.

It would suggest to me that he is acutely aware of the situation we're in and knows that the current cadence of what is happening in the league and our own financial situation means its just a matter of time before we're relegated.  The pin has been taken out of the grenade and he's holding it in his hand - at what point does he accept that morality is second to the club staying in the league and us getting the investment we need to try and properly compete in the short, medium and long-term?  He's got to get the timing right on this one - its the hardest part of his job right now in my opinion.

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5 minutes ago, Lallana's Left Peg said:

Some interesting views around morality and fan experience of supporting your team.  Both mean something to fans but not to the club I would say.  Relegation is catastrophic for Saints and the club would not want it.  Martin Semmens having previously spoke about investment from parties that the fans would not warm up has also on the other hand signed off commercial deals with betting companies and crypto-currency companies under the grounds of income for the club to remain competitive.

It would suggest to me that he is acutely aware of the situation we're in and knows that the current cadence of what is happening in the league and our own financial situation means its just a matter of time before we're relegated.  The pin has been taken out of the grenade and he's holding it in his hand - at what point does he accept that morality is second to the club staying in the league and us getting the investment we need to try and properly compete in the short, medium and long-term?  He's got to get the timing right on this one - its the hardest part of his job right now in my opinion.

Are you suggesting that we are currently saying no to unseemly investment.

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2 hours ago, farawaysaint said:

Well, that’s Newcastle off the list of teams I thought we could always give a good game against.

Let’s put this in context, their owners are 15? times richer than City’s owners. 

There are probably about six teams in the league now I think we can realistically expect to beat. 
 

40 points every year is a tough ask going forward.

 

It's not really 40 points anymore though.

Wasn't 30 enough to keep you up last season?

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1 hour ago, Fan The Flames said:

Are you suggesting that we are currently saying no to unseemly investment.

I don't know if it was unseemly or not, but we said no to one investor and Semmens is on the record as saying he could find an investor very quickly if he wanted but they may be unseemly: https://www.hampshirelive.news/sport/football/football-news/martin-semmens-southampton-newcastle-takeover-6024374

Quote

"We have said no. That person then went away. They have never once stopped us from saying no. We would like a new person around the table. It may still include Mr. Gao and Katarina also, it might not.

"The reason why it is taking so long is that we are not selling the club to the first person that comes through the door. If I wanted to find a shareholder or an investor with the money, I could find it tomorrow - but you would not like them.

"We will choose who that is. The key message from us is that we want the right person here to take this club forward and if we do not find that person then we will keep on going as we are. There is no problem where we are but we want to take this club to the next level."

 

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5 minutes ago, Lallana's Left Peg said:

I don't know if it was unseemly or not, but we said no to one investor and Semmens is on the record as saying he could find an investor very quickly if he wanted but they may be unseemly: https://www.hampshirelive.news/sport/football/football-news/martin-semmens-southampton-newcastle-takeover-6024374

 

Like you say - might not be unseemly but could be a bullshitter. Or someone that is just going leverage their own buy-out by piling the debt back on to us but they own the stadium forever and lease it etc etc etc.

It's more likely its just a shit deal for all concerned.

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14 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

Hasn't been 40 points for something like twenty years, and absolutely nothing to suggest it ever will be again. No idea why people still go on about it.

Ok the average in the last 10 seasons is 35 points 🙄

Bit of a pedantic correction entirely missing the point of the post but sure. 

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