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Southampton 1-1 Leicester - Match Thread


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For a championship striker Adams was superb!

Salisu was outstanding finally saw my team give a bit of fight not seen that much this season!

really chuffed with a point that really was a terrible decision!

Edited by Give it to Ron
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At long last I feel a bit of pride tonight but some questions need answering inc Sky/Tyler’s appalling commentary, the truly awful decision to send JV off and the lack of VAR to come to right a blatant injustice. 
The question I would like to ask is - how can a defender tackle without a follow through and if that follow through impedes another player and there is no intent surely that is pure bad luck and no way a red card?

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31 minutes ago, BallBoy said:

Surely we will appeal that red.

Tbh I’d rather see Salisu get a run at LCB now. Vestergaard is a threat with his passing as he still proved in his 10 mins but really we really need someone more solid defensively and Salisu impressed in that regard the last two games.

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1 minute ago, Fitzhugh Fella said:

At long last I feel a bit of pride tonight but some questions need answering inc Sky/Tyler’s appalling commentary, the truly awful decision to send JV off and the lack of VAR to come to right a blatant injustice. 
The question I would like to ask is - how can a defender tackle without a follow through and if that follow through impedes another player and there is no intent surely that is pure bad luck and no way a red card?

Fully agree 

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Absolutely brilliant battling performance from us tonight. Hopefully this will set us up nicely for a strong finish to the season. That was never a red in a million years and hopefully it will be overturned. Salisu was top quality tonight, KWP and Stephens superb (Jack was good before when he filled in at left back) Prowsey (expertly taken penalty) and Stuart ran their socks off and Che and Redders battled hard up top. Alex made a great save to help us get a point. Ralph was spot on with his tactics tonight :)

Edited by davefizzy14
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Just now, Fitzhugh Fella said:

At long last I feel a bit of pride tonight but some questions need answering inc Sky/Tyler’s appalling commentary, the truly awful decision to send JV off and the lack of VAR to come to right a blatant injustice. 
The question I would like to ask is - how can a defender tackle without a follow through and if that follow through impedes another player and there is no intent surely that is pure bad luck and no way a red card?

This is where there needs to be a bit of common sense applied, you're right - it was similar to the West Ham red the other week, where was he supposed to put his foot as it followed through? Similar to Jannik, where is it supposed to go?

You'd hope someone in VAR would be able to look at that and help the referee apply the common sense, but no - it doesn't seem to be used correctly in those situations.

A really frustrating season for referees I have to say. VAR is being used absolutely appallingly by the officials in this country.

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Actually think the red worked for us, we had to sit back , rather than try and win with Che and Redders we dug in and the expectation level was lower, this could be a massive shot in the arm ,

proves we don't fold when 10 men,

don't always  fold against Leicester,

and a Friday night game we've survived

But had to turn the sound off as every other sentence either had  9 0 or Leicester need to get 3 points, FFS Saints were the home side and needed the points just as much¬

 

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At last, some pride, passion, bollux and effort.  Great performance by the lot of them,  now let's keep the bar at that standard.   No Ings, Bertrand, Vestegard or Romeu, down to 10 and we dug deep to grind out a point.  Proud of them all tonight, but we need the same levels in every game now until the end of the season. 

Edited by Micky
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16 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Careful, you’ll be called a sexist. 
 

 

If they want equality, they'll have to take the criticism that every male pundit gets.

Oh but that's not allowed in 2021.

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15 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

This is where there needs to be a bit of common sense applied, you're right - it was similar to the West Ham red the other week, where was he supposed to put his foot as it followed through? Similar to Jannik, where is it supposed to go?

You'd hope someone in VAR would be able to look at that and help the referee apply the common sense, but no - it doesn't seem to be used correctly in those situations.

A really frustrating season for referees I have to say. VAR is being used absolutely appallingly by the officials in this country.

Those silly cunts are too busy wincing at the slo mo's (which do look bad, of course they do) and tying themselves up in knots about what clear and obvious means to apply any common sense.  Slow motion replays have absolutely no place in refereeing decisions end of.

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17 minutes ago, Fitzhugh Fella said:

At long last I feel a bit of pride tonight but some questions need answering inc Sky/Tyler’s appalling commentary, the truly awful decision to send JV off and the lack of VAR to come to right a blatant injustice. 
The question I would like to ask is - how can a defender tackle without a follow through and if that follow through impedes another player and there is no intent surely that is pure bad luck and no way a red card?

Doubt other fans will see anything wrong with the commentary. General love in for Leicester all round.

VAR has ruined football, I didn't want it, and I want rid of it ASAP. 

Tech is fine the useless idiots operating it are the problem. They should all be sent to watch Cricket and Rugby were it is used properly. Hate it.

That tackle was certainly worthy of a booking. He lost control and never really had himself under control from then onwards. He made contact so there has to be repercussions. However he got the ball and it wasn't an obvious goal scoring opportunity because Vardy didn't have the ball under control.

Problem is we'd all be howling if that was Ings on the receiving end.

Football fans fickle ..... never.

Long winded way to say, I agree.

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25 minutes ago, davefizzy14 said:

Absolutely brilliant battling performance from us tonight. Hopefully this will set us up nicely for a strong finish to the season. That was never a red in a million years and hopefully it will be overturned. Salisu was top quality tonight, KWP and Stephens superb (Jack was good before when he filled in at left back) Prowsey (expertly taken penalty) and Stuart ran their socks off and Che and Redders battled hard up top. Alex made a great save to help us get a point. Ralph was spot on with his tactics tonight :)

Agree with that, it's what we've been asking for, a proper team effort , did really well up against it tonight. 

The red card was a joke and should be overturned,  not sure if we'll appeal as only one game. 

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While I’ll admit to not being a fan of our starting line-up (not a fan of Redmond up top or Armstrong being played out of his best position), I will say that after the dubious red card sent us down to 10 men I think Ralph got things spot on and the team showed some real grit and determination to get us a valuable point.

The key now is to keep the momentum going – I thought we might after the comeback win against Burnley but then we immediately capitulated against West Brom in our next match. I’m not expecting points out of the Liverpool game but everything after that is winnable and we may even be mathematically safe by the next time we play after that so here’s hoping we use this as a launchpad and kick on for the remainder of the season.

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hopefully our esteemed manager will now realise that it's better to defend well and get a oint rather than attack at all costs 

 I am now even more convinced that with the players we currently have fit 352 is the best set up. 

That could change with a fully fit Romeu, when 442 might be better.

It looks as if Salisu may b very good, rather like KWP who did a great job on Vardy tonight restricting him to one clear chance.

As I have previously said one definition of insanity is to keep doing the same thing and expect a different result.

I thought the whole team really did well tonight against an opposition of 13 at times.

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1 hour ago, Pamplemousse said:

The players have fight. I'm surprised but equally I'm proud.

A superb point. We'll need that same defensive energy and spirit at Liverpool; after that we can win every game in my opinion.

Those who doubt Ralph really show their lack of footballing intelligence. The players are with him; the directors are with him; the majority of fans are with him. I just hope the club back him in the transfer window.

Please can you list Ralph's attributes. Commenting that anyone who disagrees with your opinion on Ralph lacks intelligence is arrogant in the extreme.

 

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He was getting stick, but credit to Minamino I think, got stuck into a game that didn’t suit him and overall it’s a team effort which I personally think he contributed nicely to - even if it was in a different way to we expect from him.

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36 minutes ago, macca155 said:

Doubt other fans will see anything wrong with the commentary. General love in for Leicester all round.

VAR has ruined football, I didn't want it, and I want rid of it ASAP. 

Tech is fine the useless idiots operating it are the problem. They should all be sent to watch Cricket and Rugby were it is used properly. Hate it.

That tackle was certainly worthy of a booking. He lost control and never really had himself under control from then onwards. He made contact so there has to be repercussions. However he got the ball and it wasn't an obvious goal scoring opportunity because Vardy didn't have the ball under control.

Problem is we'd all be howling if that was Ings on the receiving end.

Football fans fickle ..... never.

Long winded way to say, I agree.

I agree completely with your comments on VAR, and particularly about cricket and rugby. Of course in cricket you still have umpires call for marginal decisions by=ut everybody understands and accepts that. That is why I had high hopes for it but it just goes to show that a  a bunch of buffoons can cock anything up.

However I completely disagree with your comments on that foul and many others where follow through contact has been interpreted as a deliberate foul play. Perhaps our lawmakers and officials should be given a tutorial on Newton's Second Law of Motion which shows there is a force called momentum and is equal to mass times velocity. IMO unless there appears to be a deliberate attempt to catch the opposing player after contact with the ball, as long as the tackler gets the ball first, unless he is standing still there cannot be a foul unless they go in studs first and obviously recklessly.or go over the ball deliberately after contact with the ball which regrettably was commonplace in my youth.

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1 hour ago, Fitzhugh Fella said:

At long last I feel a bit of pride tonight but some questions need answering inc Sky/Tyler’s appalling commentary

I had to mute the sound for the second half, he got on my tits in the first half, kept apologising for mentioning the 9-0 but then carried on talking about it anyway. The number of times these commentators are desperate for the bigger team, or should I say team chasing Champions League places, to win is unbelievable. 
 

I’ve always liked Tyler but this past 18 months or so maybe his time to be put out to grass has come. 

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1 hour ago, Pamplemousse said:

The players have fight. I'm surprised but equally I'm proud.

A superb point. We'll need that same defensive energy and spirit at Liverpool; after that we can win every game in my opinion.

Those who doubt Ralph really show their lack of footballing intelligence. The players are with him; the directors are with him; the majority of fans are with him. I just hope the club back him in the transfer window.

Agree, but given that we haven't got a pot to piss in, am not sure what we're going to back him with.... 

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30 minutes ago, cambsaint said:

I agree completely with your comments on VAR, and particularly about cricket and rugby. Of course in cricket you still have umpires call for marginal decisions by=ut everybody understands and accepts that. That is why I had high hopes for it but it just goes to show that a  a bunch of buffoons can cock anything up.

However I completely disagree with your comments on that foul and many others where follow through contact has been interpreted as a deliberate foul play. Perhaps our lawmakers and officials should be given a tutorial on Newton's Second Law of Motion which shows there is a force called momentum and is equal to mass times velocity. IMO unless there appears to be a deliberate attempt to catch the opposing player after contact with the ball, as long as the tackler gets the ball first, unless he is standing still there cannot be a foul unless they go in studs first and obviously recklessly.or go over the ball deliberately after contact with the ball which regrettably was commonplace in my youth.

I guess that's why I said it was just a booking. That was fair nobody would be too upset, and Leicester had a free kick in a great position. Justice was done, red card was ridiculous.

In Rugby you hear the discussion. The decision is then explained.

Football refs should forget VAR, it really isn't helping.

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Just watched the 'highlights' and that was never...never a red card. Not even a yellow. Lost control but pushed the ball away to the keeper. If that is not recinded, we may as well let the Shit League... sorry...Super League take over and just move to supporting non-league teams, which is not unappealing to be honest.

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Aside from the fact that I don’t think it was a penalty as Vestergard clearly played the ball and his follow through caught Vardy, I could maybe understand (though not agree with) the referee thinking it was a dangerous tackle in the aftermath.  However, when it then comes out that it is for denying a goal scoring opportunity, then that is a huge error on more than one count.

However, the thing that actually annoyed me more was Vardy receiving treatment from the physio for over three minutes yet when play was restarted with the free kick, he was still on the pitch. If I have missed something hopefully someone can let me know but I was under the impression the rule of a player receiving onfield treatment for an injury and having to go off and then be waved back once play has restarted still applied. Hypothetically if the free kick had rebounded say from a McCarthy save to Vardy and he had scored, would this goal have stood?

I also wonder if the PL are backing this ref, then fair enough but I am pretty sure he would not have been considered to referee the Liverpool v Man U game this weekend so why is he able to ref our game. I get that all refs need to be given a chance but it’s almost like the elite refs referee the elite clubs and the new ones are given games involving the smaller or lower clubs in the same league. 

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Posted (edited)

Also, how the f*ck have the Prem messed up VAR so much. With so many examples that work out there and how easy it should be to make the right decisions, the 'officials' have still made it impossible for the right decisions to be made. The best time I've had at football in last 2 years is a 0-0 draw at Gainsborough Trinity. Well contested match and a shit load of beer. What a Saturday afternoon.

Edited by CylonKing
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OMG - watched this without knowing the score after the game had finished...so nearly fast-forwarded after the red card...told myself I'd do that after the inevitable Leicester goal. So...watched it all through doing what we were probably all doing, not getting my hopes up - even into the last minute of extra time. So happy we took a point. A fantastic performance from Salisu and Walker-Peters, JWP and Armstrong too, Adams and Redmond worked their socks off, McCarthy earned his place...

...Now to get that ridiculous red card rescinded. Leon Osman, the tosser reckons Vardy would have got to the ball before McCarthy and other Leicester massage therapists on the panel agreed with him!

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4 hours ago, Nemi said:

He was getting stick, but credit to Minamino I think, got stuck into a game that didn’t suit him and overall it’s a team effort which I personally think he contributed nicely to - even if it was in a different way to we expect from him.

I have to disagree with this. I thought Minamino had a really poor game. I was praying for ID to replace him 

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6 hours ago, Fitzhugh Fella said:

At long last I feel a bit of pride tonight but some questions need answering inc Sky/Tyler’s appalling commentary, the truly awful decision to send JV off and the lack of VAR to come to right a blatant injustice. 
The question I would like to ask is - how can a defender tackle without a follow through and if that follow through impedes another player and there is no intent surely that is pure bad luck and no way a red card?

I thought they said they looked at it and confirmed ref's denying a goal scoring chance decision , so double poor result !

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6 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

First proper defensive performance for ages, proper team performance tonight. Interesting that the 3 “stars” Bertrand, Ings & Vesty missing.

Che ran his socks off, KWP excellent, The keeper did well, except maybe one misjudgment. Special mention for Stephens, out of position but did really well. 

You forgot to mention our goalscorer .

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I thought DGSO was only a red if the defender made no attempt to play the ball. The fact Vestergard even attempted to olay it, at worse was a yellow.

Given he clearly got the ball, then no foul. Ive just read a couple of posts saying it was a foul, if that is the case you'd need to ban tackling,  he wasnt out of control, his studs weren't up, and he was hardly moving fast or aggressively!

Really happy with the performance, and fair play to a few on here that clearly dont want Ralph for saying he got that spot on. And hopefully some others may accept he may have just got this one right, too.

Next game should be easier anyway.  Oh.

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Radio 5L commentator seemed a bit disappointed that Saints took the lead, judging by his quiet, understated reaction. By contrast he was shouting in apparent delight when Leicester equalised. Carney at least was more even-handed, but completely wrong on the big call.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Billy the Kidd said:

I thought DGSO was only a red if the defender made no attempt to play the ball. 

Only inside the box. The thinking being that a clear goal scoring opportunity hasn’t been denied  because a penalty is also a clear goal scoring opportunity.

If the the red was because of the tackle and the referee thought it out of control, I’d have disagreed but could understand the decision. I don’t blame the ref I think the VAR’s let him down big time.

Edited by Lord Duckhunter
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2 hours ago, SaintBobby said:

I have to disagree with this. I thought Minamino had a really poor game. I was praying for ID to replace him 

Yeah. He was woeful. Gives the ball away too much, out of his depth in this league unfortunately 

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38 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Only inside the box. The thinking being that a clear goal scoring opportunity hasn’t been denied  because a penalty is also a clear goal scoring opportunity.

If the the red was because of the tackle and the referee thought it out of control, I’d have disagreed but could understand the decision. I don’t blame the ref I think the VAR’s let him down big time.

Yeah, the ref wasnt in a bad position, but his view may have been slightly blurred. Agree the VAR set-up really failed, I mean isn’t that literally what it was brought in to help with?

I wondered about the being out of control, but Vesty had no speed going into the tackle, didnt think his studs were up, and his momentum wasnt one of those where he ends up 3 feet past Vardy. He clipped him after he got the ball, it literally happens most times tackles are contested.

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9 hours ago, nta786 said:

MOTM for me goes to Karen Carney for her wonderful insights tonight.

Groundbreaking analysis

She got it badly wrong, but everyone is a bit of a Jermaine Jenas sometime.

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Magnificent display to a man. Well done lads. I hope we appeal against the Red Card and complain to Sky Sports for the biased commentary from Tyler and Smith.

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I thought we were in for a bad night when I saw Stephens on the pitch and Vestegaard getting sent off it, all thanks to a ref not using VAR in the way it is intended and Vardy making a meal of the tackle. It was nice to see us improve and become more determined as the game went on, instead of the other way round. A well earned and well deserved point. I have never been keen on Karen Carney as a TV pundit either. She is at her best with the sound turned down.

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7 hours ago, beatlesaint said:

I had to mute the sound for the second half, he got on my tits in the first half, kept apologising for mentioning the 9-0 but then carried on talking about it anyway. The number of times these commentators are desperate for the bigger team, or should I say team chasing Champions League places, to win is unbelievable. 
 

I’ve always liked Tyler but this past 18 months or so maybe his time to be put out to grass has come. 

Totally agree, the commentators were so desperate for Leicester  to go on and score win even that the same old footballing cliches came into place, oh 10 men must be feeling tired  a moments lack of concentration and gaps are bound to appear, i too muted the commentary it was a love in for what Leicester might be able to achieve and for fuck sake how much longer do we need to hear about the fucking 9-0? seriously what have we got to surpass that moment in footballing history ourselves for it not to be mentioned?........tbh it had all the makings of that fateful but since repeated night didn't it ...be honest, but that aside we really played well ,just a pity we didn't do that in the semi final. Its once again a VAR call that's highlighted another in accuracy in someone else's view on what was a foul, momentum ...!! how can you stop yourself once your commited? and your tackling correctly ?.............soon this is becoming a non contact  sport bit like basket ball team with the worse attackers looses type thing ,protect the integrity of football and stop misuse of the VAR, and on further evidence of a non foul being called, book those divers and cheats then we might get some normality back into the game.

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Posted (edited)

its mostly been said about the red card, although early comments didn't appreciate that the Video Ref had studied the incident before advising the match ref.  The referee made an error by failing to see that Vestergaard was first to the ball and had put it beyond Vardy with a pass back to the keeper.  Not only was it not a foul, but neither was it a goal scoring opportunity.  This must be one of the worst mistakes by a Video Ref that there has been because not only did he fail to realise that Vestergaard had played the ball, but he also failed to recommend that the match ref should view the pitch-side monitor.

This card should be rescinded on appeal but that alone is not good enough.  Saints were wrongly forced to play almost the entire game with an incomplete team, and were required to defend against a free kick from the edge of the penalty area that was wrongly awarded.

That one of only 19 home games in the league can be ruined by such a failure of the officials is unforgiveable.  Rescinding the red card does not alter that fact.  If a yellow card is substituted instead, people would be entitled to be even more angry, because many would see that as a cover-up by administrators not wishing to admit the extent of the mistake by the match officials.  

The just outcome would be for the present VAR system to be withdrawn until something properly secure system can be created, and for the match to be replayed but that would amount to an admission of incompetence by the authorities.    If the red card is confirmed, or if it is simply replaced by a yellow, people who have said they are sick and tired of what they see going on in football will feel that their assumptions have been confirmed.  That there is something rotten in the State of Denmark.

As for Vardy, he should have been sent off for simulation and gamesmanship, due to exaggerating the effect of tripping over Vestergaard's foot, by rolling around on the ground in feigned agony.

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1 hour ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Only inside the box. The thinking being that a clear goal scoring opportunity hasn’t been denied  because a penalty is also a clear goal scoring opportunity.

If the the red was because of the tackle and the referee thought it out of control, I’d have disagreed but could understand the decision. I don’t blame the ref I think the VAR’s let him down big time.

VAR definitely let him down, or more specifically the rules. They are so paranoid that VAR will remove the ref's authority, that a decision is only overturned if it is a clear error. That makes it personal. In rugby the ref remains in charge and watches it on the big screens. He is 'helped' by another ref but retains authority.

Without VAR, I reckon the ref would have given a free kick and a booking.

Funny thing is, it forced a change of personnel on Ralph, and a system change. Saints were way better afterwards defensively.

Nice to have some positives for once 

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1 minute ago, macca155 said:

VAR definitely let him down, or more specifically the rules. They are so paranoid that VAR will remove the ref's authority, that a decision is only overturned if it is a clear error. That makes it personal. In rugby the ref remains in charge and watches it on the big screens. He is 'helped' by another ref but retains authority.

Without VAR, I reckon the ref would have given a free kick and a booking.

Funny thing is, it forced a change of personnel on Ralph, and a system change. Saints were way better afterwards defensively.

Nice to have some positives for once 

Yep, the rugby situation is the way to go for me. What I like about it is that it's essentially trying to get to the correct decision, with an acknowledgement that the initial decision may have been wrong, and with transparency to the fans and players. 

I'd be happy with var if it was done as it is in rugby. If not, bin it as its not fit for purpose as it is. 

I agree on the other point. We played brilliantly after the red and as a Ralph critic, I put my hands up and say he got tactics and changes spot on. Superb from him and the players. 

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Salisu and Stephens worked and communicated well i thought.

Next game I'd have Mo and Jack as the CBs to see how they perform as Bedernak and Veest have had like nearly the whole season despite some comedy defending.

Give these guys a go, Jack can still ping the ball a la veestie

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8 hours ago, beatlesaint said:

I had to mute the sound for the second half, he got on my tits in the first half, kept apologising for mentioning the 9-0 but then carried on talking about it anyway. The number of times these commentators are desperate for the bigger team, or should I say team chasing Champions League places, to win is unbelievable. 
 

I’ve always liked Tyler but this past 18 months or so maybe his time to be put out to grass has come. 

Tyler combined with Leicester fan Alan Smith was a terrible combination and made very painful listening. It was only when we got to half time pundits that we got some balance opinions, 

One of the reasons I can't wait to be back at matches, actually supporting the team and not having to listen to morons on sky. 

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From the pre-match commentary right through the whole match the Leicester wank fest was in the forefront. Smith cannot ever give a balanced view on any of the Saints games that I have seen this season. It’s was almost orgiastic in its content. Why no remarks after Vardy had dived and won yet another Oscar for his performance? He should have received at least a yellow for simulation and like an earlier poster said ‘Why did he remain on the pitch after his recovery attention.’ We deserved that point last night and we actually turned up. Up yours Brendan and Vardy. Nip over to Smithies for more faux adulation.

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1 hour ago, steve green said:

She got it badly wrong, but everyone is a bit of a Jermaine Jenas sometime.

I heard Karen Carney commentate a few months back, her co-commentator said things are looking ominous for Arsenal, after a period of silence she said sorry I don't know what that means and claimed she'd never heard the word ominous before. 

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6 hours ago, Vancouver Saint said:

 

...Now to get that ridiculous red card rescinded. Leon Osman, the tosser reckons Vardy would have got to the ball before McCarthy and other Leicester massage therapists on the panel agreed with him!

Jamie Redknapp and Darren Bent on SKY called it for the shit decision it was.

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Posted (edited)

Given the circumstances with the early red card, a very good result.

Great to see the team battle hard last night, it's been a while since we have seen that.

Now 10pts clear of Fulham with 5 left to play, very nearly there with regard to mathematical safety! Decent chance we will have achieved that by the time we play them, which will be a relief in the context of our poor form.

Edited by Super_Uwe
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