Jump to content

Vestergaard red card rescinded


Recommended Posts

Posted (edited)

Just seen this on the BBC website. It doesn’t say whether a yellow was substituted instead. I should hope not because the decision was 100% wrong. The primary fault lies with the Video Referee, Moss, who substituted his own incorrect judgement and failed to ask the match official to watch the incident on the pitch-side monitor.  Had he done so, the decision of the independent panel shows it highly probable the ref would have cancelled the card immediately. 
We are still left with an appalling injustice, that Southampton had to play for 80 minutes with the team one player short. 
At the very least, the club should be awarded a bonus point as compensation. That the rules don’t provide for this shows that the rules are unjust and should be changed.
As for Moss, I look forward to hearing what disciplinary action will be taken against him, or are referees beyond criticism?

 

 

Edited by Professor
Spelling
  • Like 7
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Professor changed the title to Vestergaard red card rescinded
19 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

I thought there was a massive anti-Saints conspiracy than runs right across the top levels of English football?

Yes but we play Liverpool next and if you speak to any of their fans, there's also a massive super-conspiracy against them. All the lock downs are a huge Anfield, Kop End, Man City, 6 defeats, The Sun, Tories... something something...

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

That’s about the 3rd or 4th red card rescinded this season. In the era of VAR, that’s actually quite disgraceful. Riley needs to have a long hard look at himself. 

Not sure it it is true but I saw a WHU fan say today that they have had 5 of their last 8 reds rescinded. Shocking if it is true.

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Professor said:

Just seen this on the BBC website. It doesn’t say whether a yellow was substituted instead.

 

 

I don’t think it can be changed to a yellow. Yellow cards or ‘cautions’ are not subject to appeal or review.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

That’s about the 3rd or 4th red card rescinded this season. In the era of VAR, that’s actually quite disgraceful. Riley needs to have a long hard look at himself. 

Totally this. It was a shocking decision that VAR didn't over turn. 

If a red card is rescinded then the ref should have to serve the ban instead.

  • Haha 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

That’s about the 3rd or 4th red card rescinded this season. In the era of VAR, that’s actually quite disgraceful. Riley needs to have a long hard look at himself. 

While this may never happen, perhaps it's time to look at abolishing red cards in favour of a post-match judiciary who weigh the evidence against a player "on report" for an infringement deemed by the referee to be worthy of a sending off - including a second yellow.     That way the Club and spectators get a numerically fair game and the player faces the music after the game.    Suspensions, fines or clearances follow.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, austsaint said:

While this may never happen, perhaps it's time to look at abolishing red cards in favour of a post-match judiciary who weigh the evidence against a player "on report" for an infringement deemed by the referee to be worthy of a sending off - including a second yellow.     That way the Club and spectators get a numerically fair game and the player faces the music after the game.    Suspensions, fines or clearances follow.

That’s ok for technical offences or two yellows, but you can’t have somebody finishing the game after dishing out a waist high “tackle”. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

That’s about the 3rd or 4th red card rescinded this season. In the era of VAR, that’s actually quite disgraceful. Riley needs to have a long hard look at himself. 

Not often I agree with you but on this I most definitely do. I just for the life of me do not understand how it can happen when you have VAR.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

So we have had two red cards, that were looked at by VAR on match day and confirmed, over turned on appeal. 

We've also had another red given by the ref overruled by VAR on match day and changed. 

So just how many have been rescinded this season, what is the actual number. If things are to change, we need to know these details. 

 

This seems like utter madness continuing with this failed system. Needs new blood from top to bottom if its to continue. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Lighthouse said:

Yes but we play Liverpool next and if you speak to any of their fans, there's also a massive super-conspiracy against them. All the lock downs are a huge Anfield, Kop End, Man City, 6 defeats, The Sun, Tories... something something...

Yep, Victims vs Victims, Saturday 815pm.

In all seriousness, I'm glad justice has been done. The var system has been shown to be a complete farce. On field mistakes are tolerable without var, but not when var is there. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Toadhall Saint said:

Not often I agree with you but on this I most definitely do. I just for the life of me do not understand how it can happen when you have VAR.

The solution is having a second VAR check the first VAR.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Toadhall Saint said:

Not often I agree with you but on this I most definitely do. I just for the life of me do not understand how it can happen when you have VAR.

It's what happens when you have dumb arses operating it. Our officials are some of the worst in Europe in my opinion.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, austsaint said:

While this may never happen, perhaps it's time to look at abolishing red cards in favour of a post-match judiciary who weigh the evidence against a player "on report" for an infringement deemed by the referee to be worthy of a sending off - including a second yellow.     That way the Club and spectators get a numerically fair game and the player faces the music after the game.    Suspensions, fines or clearances follow.

You should add, that this is what they do in AFL. It works.

Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

That’s about the 3rd or 4th red card rescinded this season. In the era of VAR, that’s actually quite disgraceful. Riley needs to have a long hard look at himself. 

In the mirror? 

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Gingeletiss said:

You should add, that this is what they do in AFL. It works.

Would never work in football. 
 

Play off finals, cup finals, win or you’re relegated relegation battles would just see players taking the hit of a ban for next season if it means they’re going to win the game that matters.

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Useful Idiot said:

The solution is to have properly trained specialist VAR refs that are regularly tested on the rules and get suspended/sacked if they make too many mistakes.

yes and independent from the group that run the pitches and lines. I think Moss tried to throw Friday's referee under the bus. A new, young upcoming referee threatening an old, fat guy (which I appreciate does not narrow down to one individual) who sees his pay cheque disappearing. However, it wasn't the on field ref's fault, it is all down to Moss. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Singapore Saint said:

The solution is having a second VAR check the first VAR.

That's one way to drag out an already over prolonged process!

Link to post
Share on other sites

The VAR referees should be an independent group, maybe referee’s that no longer officiate like Clattenburg, Halsey, Howard Webb - their age won’t matter if they’re just sat at Stockley Park. They shouldn’t be accountable to PGMOL, and they should get rid of this stupid fucking ‘clear and obvious’ get-out clause. If the referee makes a mistake on a key decision, overrule him - don’t say ‘yeah it’s a mistake but it’s not an OBVIOUS mistake’. 

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
43 minutes ago, Roo1976 said:

Does this mean we can play with 12 men for the last 80 minutes against Liverhampton on saturday?

I’m liking this idea.

in all seriousness an to agree with some of the points already made, Moss is far more culpable. A split second decision that’s wrong is not ideal but it happens. To not review with time to consider is simply ineptitude.

And to have this volume of errors with the benefit of VAR is inexcusable. The rescinding confirms they are making bad decisions so there should be consequences. That there are none smacks of the level of arrogance that blinds them into confirming the bad decisions in the games in the first place.

They need to root out this arrogance and quickly because it’s ruining the game

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, Toadhall Saint said:

Not often I agree with you but on this I most definitely do. I just for the life of me do not understand how it can happen when you have VAR.

The same referees, with their established prejudices, are on VAR too.

To be fair, it's difficult to find anyone in this country with an interest in football who doesn't have favourite teams as well as teams they don't like. The old referees like Dean and Moss, who have been there for decades, have built up their prejudices over many years.

If it's a decision that might favour a big team, they will take several minutes examining it on VAR but when it comes to us, they barely give it a second glance. and that was what happened when Moss was required to consider Vestergaard's red card. 

We have foreign players so why not foreign referees? That might help solve the problem.

Edited by Nordic Saint
  • Like 2
  • Confused 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, Chewy said:

in all seriousness an to agree with some of the points already made, Moss is far more culpable. A split second decision that’s wrong is not ideal but it happens. To not review with time to consider is simply ineptitude.

This pretty well summarises my feelings. We can all appreciate the difficulty refs have particularly with the speed of the game at that level and until now we could give officials the benefit of the doubt as they didn't have the replays that we see sat in comfort on our sofas. But they do now..

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Shocking really, the exact sort of thing that shouldn't happen now with VAR.

Problem is we have too many bad refs making bad mistakes, and then those same bad refs are in charge of VAR and seemingly won't or can't correct their colleagues mistakes even with multiple angles, replays and time to look at it. 

Nothing wrong with VAR in principle or most of the technology (though something needs deciding around close offsides as these are silly) but any system is as usual let down by the incompetence of its human operators. 

Most watched league in the world, TV deals worth billions, players being paid £100k a week, can we seriously not spend a little more money to say have a group of independent former players in charge of VAR where you have 3 of them on each game, with no ties to the teams involved who get to feedback to the ref? What would you need, like a group of about 30-40 of them available each weekend and then allocated to each game for a few hours work? Surely in the billions flowing through the PL some money could be found for that? 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Keep the system but change it to a set number of appeals per team per game. No appeal, no check. There's just no need for them to go looking for something wrong when both sides have accepted a goal has been scored,

Offsides are fact - i.e 1mm or 50cm, either you're offside or you're not. At the end of the day, .before VAR how many serious protests were there from players on the pitch if an erroneous offside was given/not given. a few raised arms, a few dirty looks at the linesman the odd crowding of the ref to go and speak to him, But generally there was a reluctant acceptance that if it was close enough that the defenders thought it was off and lino thought on, or vice versa then it was really to close to call.  It's only the studio pundits with their constant replays of "controversial" incidents that created a fake demand for VAR.

Fouls and handballs can be a bit more contentious , generally players know if either has genuinely been missed by the ref ( even though they'll still shout for it anyway).  But again, how often  are the real obvious ones missed? One captain's appeal per side per half should cover it.

 

 

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, tajjuk said:

Shocking really, the exact sort of thing that shouldn't happen now with VAR.

Problem is we have too many bad refs making bad mistakes, and then those same bad refs are in charge of VAR and seemingly won't or can't correct their colleagues mistakes even with multiple angles, replays and time to look at it. 

Nothing wrong with VAR in principle or most of the technology (though something needs deciding around close offsides as these are silly) but any system is as usual let down by the incompetence of its human operators. 

Most watched league in the world, TV deals worth billions, players being paid £100k a week, can we seriously not spend a little more money to say have a group of independent former players in charge of VAR where you have 3 of them on each game, with no ties to the teams involved who get to feedback to the ref? What would you need, like a group of about 30-40 of them available each weekend and then allocated to each game for a few hours work? Surely in the billions flowing through the PL some money could be found for that? 

Just spend the money on bringing in some of the best referees from abroad, the same as we do with players. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, saintwbu said:

The VAR referees should be an independent group, maybe referee’s that no longer officiate like Clattenburg, Halsey, Howard Webb - their age won’t matter if they’re just sat at Stockley Park. They shouldn’t be accountable to PGMOL, 

Correct. Linos aren’t linos one week and referees the next. It’s a different skill set. VAR should stick to that, and also be taken away from the referees group. They’re all mates together and that poisons any clear unemotional decision. The final decision should always rest with the on field referee, so there needs to be more checking of the screen by the on field referee. What was noticeable about JV sending off was the referee wasn’t advised to double check. Therefore he wasn’t able to correct an understandable mistake, because that idiot Moss didn’t deem it clear and obvious. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Why not have the  refs micro-phoned up as they do in rugby so everyone knows what the issue is for starters,everyone that watches on TV knows exactly whats going on and they respect the officials. Bollox you say its a different game  but their is so much more respect from the players to the officials  only the captain can ask or there's trouble,prema donas cheat week in week out as Souness eluded to after Sundays postponement  prime example on MOTD a few months ago when Lacazette nearley needed surgery for that awfully long nasty bit of grass that he feel on, wow that could have ended his career.  Look at how quick the VAR was on both the champion league semi finals and they were big games ,none of the slowing down from every camera 3-4 times just a quick decisive decision and get on with it. Our refs seem very mixed in the details that no one else knows what the law is. Vestys call ,sent off for stopping a goal in open play i believe,FUCK hes a defender whats he supposed to do ,after you Claude? its still down to another interpretation off the event so you have 2 opinions not just the ref.....Rant over.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Balbuena's absurd red card got over turned as well. You'd think a spate of embarrassing failures by Ref and the VAR team getting overturned would prompt some sort of reaction from the referees group but it won't. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Something needs doing to improve both VAR and the referees. A rescinded red card makes me angry. VAR should make sure that any red cards shown by the referee is the correct decision.  Who knows what the final score might have been had Vestegaard not been sent off. Let's hear the conversation going on like they do with rugby. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, waylander said:

We would probably have lost if Vestegaard had stayed on. We would have tried to attack and got caught on the break.

I dunno, I think we'd have beaten them to be honest. We started the game really well, goal disallowed and Tella with what should have been a goal. Leicester looked as off it at the start of that game as they do tonight, so we'd have had more chances.

We had to pretty much shut up shop and let them come at us, but let's be honest they didn't really do anything then either.

Link to post
Share on other sites

 Yeh considering how awful they were against 10 men and against Newcastle I would have fancied our chances for a win, they seem to be a team eyeing a cup final and going through the same falling out of the top 4 bottle job they did last year

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

View Terms of service (Terms of Use) and Privacy Policy (Privacy Policy) and Forum Guidelines ({Guidelines})