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Saints 3-1 Fulham - Match Thread


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1 minute ago, CB Fry said:

1) Your 44 out of 55 years shite us utterly irrelevant bollocks. I am glad you accept that now. 

2) Forest have won European Cup twice. Villa, Ipswich have won European trophies. Derby have won the league.

Anyway, its boring: the point is the idea that we

"have done well for a club of their size to be in the top league for the last 10 years" 

is correct.

1) I didn't accept that.  If the sample size was small... like Bournemouth's 5 seasons, then you would have a point. But 44 of the last 55 years for Saints in the top flight is a colossal sample size. You can't fluke your way to 44 of the last 55 years in the top flight by not being a club of a decent size.

2) You've named some trophies a handful of clubs won 40 to 50 years ago. That doesn't really help you. Of those teams only Villa have been a top flight team longer than us. Ipswich, Forest and Derby winning a trophy due to good management doesn't really mean much. We were only 3 points off winning the top league in 1984.

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42 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

1) If the sample size was small... like Bournemouth's 5 seasons, then you would have a point. But 44 of the last 55 years for Saints in the top flight is a colossal sample size. You can't fluke your way to 44 of the last 55 years in the top flight by not being a club of a decent size.

2) We've averaged circa 30,000 every Premier League season at St Mary's

3) Regarding stadium capacity... St Mary's is the 17th biggest club ground in England, so it is in the top 20

4) A similar sized club being 2 leagues below doesn't mean you should be below your current level. That is a flawed point.

 

 

They said similar size of which there are plenty of teams with around 25k to 30k capacity stadiums. There's also plenty of clubs who would average a similar attendance as us if they were in the top flight for the same amount of time.

Therefore his point is correct.

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1 minute ago, Matthew Le God said:

1) I didn't accept that.  If the sample size was small... like Bournemouth's 5 seasons, then you would have a point. But 44 of the last 55 years for Saints in the top flight is a colossal sample size. You can't fluke your way to 44 of the last 55 years in the top flight by not being a club of a decent size.

2) You've named some trophies a handful of clubs won 40 to 50 years ago. That doesn't really help you. Of those teams only Villa have been a top flight team longer than us. Ipswich, Forest and Derby winning a trophy due to good management doesn't really mean much. We were only 3 points off winning the top league in 1984.

Are you saying we stayed up in 2017-18 because of us being in the top flight in the mid-eighties?

Or is it totally fucking irrelevant, the same way that Derby winning the league is irrelevant to them being in the second tier.

For a club our size to be in the top flight for ten years straight in the 2010s is very good and not some natural order of things.

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2 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

Are you saying we stayed up in 2017-18 because of us being in the top flight in the mid-eighties?

No I didn't say that. I'm puzzled why you have twisted my words into thinking I did.

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4 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

1) I didn't accept that.  If the sample size was small... like Bournemouth's 5 seasons, then you would have a point. But 44 of the last 55 years for Saints in the top flight is a colossal sample size. You can't fluke your way to 44 of the last 55 years in the top flight by not being a club of a decent size.

2) You've named some trophies a handful of clubs won 40 to 50 years ago. That doesn't really help you. Of those teams only Villa have been a top flight team longer than us. Ipswich, Forest and Derby winning a trophy due to good management doesn't really mean much. We were only 3 points off winning the top league in 1984.

I think the 44 out of 55 seasons/years is a weird stat to use.

We've been relegated in just two of our last 44 seasons in the top division.

We had one serious penalty induced and so elongated period out of the top divisions that made our stats look a lot worse.

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Just now, Matthew Le God said:

No I didn't say that. I'm puzzled why you have twisted my words into thinking I did.

What has 44 out of 55 seasons got to do with anything then?

How does it keep us in the Premier League in 2017 or 2021?

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18 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

1) I didn't accept that.  If the sample size was small... like Bournemouth's 5 seasons, then you would have a point. But 44 of the last 55 years for Saints in the top flight is a colossal sample size. You can't fluke your way to 44 of the last 55 years in the top flight by not being a club of a decent size.

2) You've named some trophies a handful of clubs won 40 to 50 years ago. That doesn't really help you. Of those teams only Villa have been a top flight team longer than us. Ipswich, Forest and Derby winning a trophy due to good management doesn't really mean much. We were only 3 points off winning the top league in 1984.

God, you really are dull.

 

Who cares what the commentator said, move on. 

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1 hour ago, VictiAbNonem said:

I've watched it again a few times on Sky highlights and I'm not sure the deflection's significant.

Maybe it did help him, but he still took the chance really well.

He also was instrumental in the move 2 or 3 passes back, kept running and reaped the rewards. The shot took a deflection but it made no difference, did more in 1 minute than Minamino and Redmond combined. 

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Posted (edited)

Armstrong has been doing so well in the centre but we wouldn't get away with him and Prowsey there on their own very often against the better sides.

Next season perhaps we can go 4222 for the games we think we should win but 352 for the others with Romeu holding and JWP and Armstrong pushing forwards (with Diallo available as needed). None of our "10s", other than Armstrong have contributed much this season in goals and assists so I don't think we lose much by leaving one of them out. 

Of course, I'm assuming we don't sign someone amazing to play off the forwards.

Edited by benjii
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Redmond was OK first half, terrible second half.  Ralf should have put on more subs earlier than he did - not for the first time.  As soon as we conceded, he made two subs that changed the game and could have prevented the goal. Still - three points!

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4 minutes ago, VectisSaint said:

He also was instrumental in the move 2 or 3 passes back, kept running and reaped the rewards. The shot took a deflection but it made no difference, did more in 1 minute than Minamino and Redmond combined. 

Yes, it was Walcott that flicked it on to Adams.

He was backing off at the time to make room for the flick, and then charged forward to be in place to finish the move.

So he was twice crucial in scoring one of our best team goals of the season.

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2 hours ago, stknowle said:

Minamino try hard lightweight. Redmond, just lightweight. 

The slagging of Minamino and Redmond is too simple. Both look so much more comfortable and effective in a central role, but pretty poor out on a wing. When Mino was moved to a more central position he immediately looked better but was subbed 10 minutes later. 

I think Ralph is struggeling to find any players who are effective out wide. For me only Moussa looks like he's in his natural position there. I'de give him a go. Redmond on the wing is just frustrating dead alleys and back passes but through the middle he can shine.

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1 minute ago, VictiAbNonem said:

I don't think I've seen much praise for KWP's assist either.

I think that pass was pretty close to perfect.

So good that onside by three yards Tella thought he might be offside

Very valid point, it was a terrific cross.

Cedric would have stuck it half way up the Chapel end 

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Posted (edited)

Very solid display today.

Armstrong, JWP, KWP & Adams stood out and I thought the defence was ok, especially Stephens.

Minamino and Redmond don't offer anywhere near enough for me. I'm looking forward to seeing more of Tella next season though. He looks like a real talent. 

Edited by Harry_SFC
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23 minutes ago, Pierre said:

The slagging of Minamino and Redmond is too simple. Both look so much more comfortable and effective in a central role, but pretty poor out on a wing. When Mino was moved to a more central position he immediately looked better but was subbed 10 minutes later. 

I think Ralph is struggeling to find any players who are effective out wide. For me only Moussa looks like he's in his natural position there. I'de give him a go. Redmond on the wing is just frustrating dead alleys and back passes but through the middle he can shine.

That's because we don't play with wingers. They tuck in too make us more narrow. That's why we hardly cross the ball these days. We play quick incisive passes through teams. Its what ralph wants

Unfortunately most of our fans don't understand tactics and moan about minamino or redmond being crap. They are not being asked to go past players and cross the ball. I thought minamino was good today, and if redmond would have scored his 1 on 1 everybody would be saying he played well too.

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Posted (edited)

I think it's tough to gauge McCarthy's performance tonight. He can't be blamed for the goal, and had almost nothing else to do. 

But he knows he'll get dropped anyway.

Edited by VictiAbNonem
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1 minute ago, Streaky said:

That's because we don't play with wingers. They tuck in too make us more narrow. That's why we hardly cross the ball these days. We play quick incisive passes through teams. Its what ralph wants

Unfortunately most of our fans don't understand tactics and moan about minamino or redmond being crap. They are not being asked to go past players and cross the ball. I thought minamino was good today, and if redmond would have scored his 1 on 1 everybody would be saying he played well too.

Spot on. Minamino and Redmond help our midfield big time. One or both of them tucking inside is even more important with Armstrong making runs forward from deep, and KWP pushing so high up. 

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Posted (edited)

A reasonably solid display against a poor Fulham side but we were still stretched too easily in defence and better sides would have punished us more severely for our errors. Salisu acquitted himself well but we need to sort out his best position to get the best from him. It seems Ralph is trying to turn him into a left back to compensate for the loss of Bertrand and so as not to have to choose which two of three equally meritorious CBs to play in the middle and which one to leave out.

With KWP bombing forward and Salisu more or less anchored at RB, we looked very lopsided and it showed with Redmond more or less isolated on the left wing and getting little service from the fullback or the MF. People will criticise him for his poor attacking performance today but it's a team game and if he doesn't get the ball played into him what is he supposed to do? There were several occasions when the obvious out-ball was to Redmond standing in clear space but the ball went the other way across a crowded midfield and invariably the moves broke down. Some very poor game reading here by the MFs and CBs.

Nice little cameo from Tella with a well taken tap in and an equally delicious flick for Walcott to finish with aplomb. Nice to see some clinical finishing for a change. HIs instinctive reaction finish in a crowded box capped another committed display from Adams. Not sure about MotM but it was one of those days where nobody shone but everyone played their part. Leeds will be a tougher test.

 

 

 

Edited by Charlie Wayman
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1 hour ago, Streaky said:

That's because we don't play with wingers. They tuck in too make us more narrow. That's why we hardly cross the ball these days. We play quick incisive passes through teams. Its what ralph wants

Unfortunately most of our fans don't understand tactics and moan about minamino or redmond being crap. They are not being asked to go past players and cross the ball. I thought minamino was good today, and if redmond would have scored his 1 on 1 everybody would be saying he played well too.

Exactly this. Minamino did a good job, as always. Redmond I felt was quieter than on Tuesday but got into some good positions.

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19 minutes ago, Charlie Wayman said:

A reasonably solid display against a poor Fulham side but we were still stretched too easily in defence and better sides would have punished us more severely for our errors. Salisu acquitted himself well but we need to sort out his best position to get the best from him. It seems Ralph is trying to turn him into a right back to compensate for the loss of Bertrand and so as not to have to choose which two of three equally meritorious CBs to play in the middle and which one to leave out.

With KWP bombing forward and Salisu more or less anchored at RB, we looked very lopsided and it showed with Redmond more or less isolated on the left wing and getting little service from the fullback or the MF. People will criticise him for his poor attacking performance today but it's a team game and if he doesn't get the ball played into him what is he supposed to do? There were several occasions when the obvious out-ball was to Redmond standing in clear space but the ball went the other way across a crowded midfield and invariably the moves broke down. Some very poor game reading here by the MFs and CBs.

Nice little cameo from Tella with a well taken tap in and an equally delicious flick for Walcott to finish with aplomb. Nice to see some clinical finishing for a change. HIs instinctive reaction finish in a crowded box capped another committed display from Adams. Not sure about MotM but it was one of those days where nobody shone but everyone played their part. Leeds will be a tougher test.

 

 

 

Salisu is playing as one of three centre backs, not as a full back. We have played 3 at the back for at least the last three games. Redmond is essentially playing as a wing back, as is KWP.

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Posted (edited)

Finally get something back from my $10 bet for the win.  I assume this run will be really important for deciding who stays or goes for next year.  

Edited by Jeremy
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Posted (edited)

Just watching MOTD. Great to see Tella’s massive smile again, good lad.

christ, the commentator was dreadful though. Gabi Logan is top class, mind.

Edited by The Kraken
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3 hours ago, Streaky said:

That's because we don't play with wingers. They tuck in too make us more narrow. That's why we hardly cross the ball these days. We play quick incisive passes through teams. Its what ralph wants

Unfortunately most of our fans don't understand tactics and moan about minamino or redmond being crap. They are not being asked to go past players and cross the ball. I thought minamino was good today, and if redmond would have scored his 1 on 1 everybody would be saying he played well too.

I can’t comment on the whole game as I couldn’t watch today, but on MOTD in every Saints highlight until he went off Minamino was involved. It was nothing exceptional but he was contributing. I’m sure that for the price Liverpool would want we could probably, at the very least attempt to, do better but I will always maintain that, we need someone like him in the team.

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2 minutes ago, The Kraken said:

Just watching MOTD. Great to see Tella’s massive smile again, good lad.

christ, the commentator was dreadful though. Gabi Logan is top class, mind.

Love scrolling through her and Kirsty Gallaghers Instagram on a Morning 

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Just now, The Kraken said:

Pervert

I don’t know what you’re thinking but Kirsty Gallagher is keen golfer keeping updated as to her progress and Logan provides some motivational mental Health posts. 

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8 hours ago, Jeremy said:

Just watched the 90 second highlights on Saints website.  Get that young goal-scorer from Fulham.

I wasn't impressed. He was anonymous in the first half and apart from the goal, which was a mishit sliced shot, he looked out of his league.

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37 minutes ago, Shroppie said:

I wasn't impressed. He was anonymous in the first half and apart from the goal, which was a mishit sliced shot, he looked out of his league.

Agree with that, compared to Tella's impact off the bench we've got a much better prospect. 

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2 minutes ago, JRM said:

Agree with that, compared to Tella's impact off the bench we've got a much better prospect. 

 

2 minutes ago, JRM said:

Agree with that, compared to Tella's impact off the bench we've got a much better prospect. 

 

39 minutes ago, Shroppie said:

I wasn't impressed. He was anonymous in the first half and apart from the goal, which was a mishit sliced shot, he looked out of his league.

I have to bow to you guys ability to assess the potential of a player so quickly. Just to summarise: 

This was Carvalho's 2nd game and he scored a good goal (ably helped by Jack getting on his wrong side). He is 18 years old. 

This was Tella's 16th appearance for Saints. He is 22 years old in July.

I am not saying that either of you are wrong, just that I admire your skill in making such a snap judgement on such a young player. Impressive. 

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9 hours ago, Jeremy said:

Just watched the 90 second highlights on Saints website.  Get that young goal-scorer from Fulham.

Thought the same when watching the game, just 18!!!!. He was the only threat from Fulham. Definitely get him in. 

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Tella looked very good, that goal will do him the world of good. I'm going to ignore the brains trust on here that say he's not good enough, he looks a decent player to me.

Not a massive fan of Stephens but he played well and Salisu is going to be the great signing Ralph keeps hinting at.

Adams did well again, im kind of warming to him, now if he could sort his shit out when it comes to putting away straightforward chances.......

Armstrong and KWP very good as is often the way.

I thought Minimino was better but as its pretty obvious we wont be keeping him its irrelevsnt really.

Redmond.........absolute crap. When we were having a spell of keep ball and knocking it around as soon as it went to him the next person to touch it had a yellow shirt on, he cant even do that when not being pressed. Please get rid FFS.

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12 hours ago, Streaky said:

That's because we don't play with wingers. They tuck in too make us more narrow. That's why we hardly cross the ball these days. We play quick incisive passes through teams. Its what ralph wants

Unfortunately most of our fans don't understand tactics and moan about minamino or redmond being crap. They are not being asked to go past players and cross the ball. I thought minamino was good today, and if redmond would have scored his 1 on 1 everybody would be saying he played well too.

Exactly this. I also think the absence of a natural overlapping LB gave Redmond less options when trying to go forward and he ended up trying to do it all himself and wasting it. So naturally defaulted to Ralph’s plan to pass and probe centrally.

That being said, neither Minamino or Redmond affected the game enough yesterday and thought the changes were about 15 mins late.

Prioritising Ings and Armstrong’s minutes was the right decision though with their history of 3 games in a week, so one of Minamino or Redderz was going to play the full 90.

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Posted (edited)

Solid performance yesterday, still some glaring issues but probably as comfortable as you'll get at this level. Fulham are diabolical, so let's not get too carried away.

Armstrong was excellent again, all over the pitch, box to box, driving and opening space. KWP equally great down the right hand side. Those two were the stand outs.

Adams seems to be getting his standard end of season goal flurry, but if you look at his record it's actually very respectable and not worth the posts ''he's a championship striker'' - he's not, he's a decent PL forward.

Salisu looks good doesn't he? So mobile on the ball, reads and intercepts so well. Very strong and wins a lot in the air. My only concern is where do we play him next year? He can't play right sided CB, and neither can Vestergaard - so it's one or the other. Sell Vestergaard for as much dollar as we can get?

Attack was ok, although it improved markedly once Tella came on. It makes such a difference when you have an attacking player, you know, attack? Redmond is defensively sound, tracks back well, gets up and down well. In an attacking sense is is a shambles and always has been, bar 1 purple patch every 18 months. If we are serious about progressing he needs to go. He's been here fro what, 5 years now, this is him and it's an absolute mess trying to watch him create for us every week If I'm honest.

It's nice to end the season well, but Leeds at home will be a much sterner test.

Edited by S-Clarke
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I know Stephens has faults but I think he does make a difference in the sense that is very vocal. He has a go at the officials, team mates and the opposition. He does bring a bit of a tougher streak to the team

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Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

1) Salisu looks good doesn't he? So mobile on the ball, reads and intercepts so well. Very strong and wins a lot in the air. My only concern is where do we play him next year? He can't play right sided CB, and neither can Vestergaard - so it's one or the other. Sell Vestergaard for as much dollar as we can get?

2) Attack was ok, although it improved markedly once Tella came on. It makes such a difference when you have an attacking player, you know, attack?

1) We need four senior centre backs, they will all get game time so I'd rather we do all we can to keep Vestergaard. If he were to leave he'd need replacing.

2) Tella came on for Ings and played as a striker. Ings remains the better player.

Edited by Matthew Le God
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Well, that's us down now that Fulham have gone above us....

Useless Ralph, what was he thinking? No plan B; ineffective subs; why did he play experienced internationals instead of untried kids?; if only we had Loftus-Cheek (1 goal, 0 assists, in 28) instead of Walcott (3 goals, 3 assists, in 20) to come of the bench and create something for us......

Adams absolutely dreadful in front of goal. Should have buried that chance from JWP's free-kick. If Ings doesn't score we never win a match.......

Meanwhile, back in the real world:

Good performance. JWP and Armstrong completely ran the midfield. We barely had to come out of 2nd gear all match. Unfortunately, the first time we did was to go down a gear after we had gone 2 up; but once they got their goal we upped the anti again to kill the match off. Minamino not as bad as many have out. Watch the highlights from MotD. He was involved in most of our best attacks. Great to see the first 2 subs make such impacts. Unfortunately Diallo not as much, but still thought Ralph did the right thing taking Armstrong off seeing as we have a stiffer test on Tuesday. Seeing Tella get his first goal, and that smile, really made my day - and what a cross from KWP; but thought the 3rd goal was the pick of them - excellent build-up, passing, and that lovely little back-heel. The icing on the cake would have been for Tella to have scored his 2nd after some great play down the left - didn't give up, won the ball back, cut back inside, 'keeper did well to tip the shot around the post. A 30 min MoM performance? Why not!

 

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8 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

1) We need four senior centre backs, the will all get game time so I'd rather we do all we can to keep Vestergaard. If he were to leave he'd need replacing.

2) Tella came on for Ings and played as a striker. Ings remains the better player.

But do we need two of the the quality of Vestergaard and Salisu, who can't actually play together at CB by all accounts? Not sure we can for a club of our size. So if we need funds, Vestergaard looks to be the most sensible place to generate them given our ready made replacement there. In my opinion.

Then we can go and get a loan CB to fill that 4th spot.

Did you not agree that our attack looked markedly better then? He was stretching the game and doing things from the 'up front role' that Redmond should have been doing from the wide role. There's no defending Redmond's lack of attacking impact on this side.

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3 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

But do we need two of the the quality of Vestergaard and Salisu, who can't actually play together at CB by all accounts? Not sure we can for a club of our size. So if we need funds, Vestergaard looks to be the most sensible place to generate them given our ready made replacement there. In my opinion.

Then we can go and get a loan CB to fill that 4th spot.

Did you not agree that our attack looked markedly better then? He was stretching the game and doing things from the 'up front role' that Redmond should have been doing from the wide role. There's no defending Redmond's lack of attacking impact on this side.

I don't see why Salisu and Vestergaard can't play together. If Vestergaard refuses to sign a new deal this summer then it probably makes sense to sell him whilst he still holds some value.

I agree that Tella is looking like he going to be more of an attacking threat than Redmond. But I still think Redmond is worth keeping even if not first choice.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, JRM said:

Agree with that, compared to Tella's impact off the bench we've got a much better prospect. 

Really should compare like with like, it was the Fulham lads second PL outing whereas Tella has featured quite a few times this season.

Edited by Charlie Wayman
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5 minutes ago, Charlie Wayman said:

Really should compare like with like, it was the Fulham lads second PL outing whereas Tella has featured quite a few times this season.

What I should have said is, we wouldn't need to buy a young forward to break through when we have one of our own already doing just that. 

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1 minute ago, Matthew Le God said:

I don't see why Salisu and Vestergaard can't play together. If Vestergaard refuses to sign a new deal this summer then it probably makes sense to sell him whilst he still holds some value.

I agree that Tella is looking like he going to be more of an attacking threat than Redmond. But I still think Redmond is worth keeping even if not first choice.

I just think it removes balance. We saw Vestergaard move to right sided CB the other night, only to quickly revert that right round. He doesn't look as comfortable to me.

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2 hours ago, Shroppie said:

I wasn't impressed. He was anonymous in the first half and apart from the goal, which was a mishit sliced shot, he looked out of his league.

I thought he did ok for just his second start. Thought it was a decent finish. He certainly looked more dangerous when he was switched to a more central role. 

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48 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

But do we need two of the the quality of Vestergaard and Salisu, who can't actually play together at CB by all accounts? Not sure we can for a club of our size. So if we need funds, Vestergaard looks to be the most sensible place to generate them given our ready made replacement there. In my opinion.

Then we can go and get a loan CB to fill that 4th spot.

Did you not agree that our attack looked markedly better then? He was stretching the game and doing things from the 'up front role' that Redmond should have been doing from the wide role. There's no defending Redmond's lack of attacking impact on this side.

They can play together at CB, they did yesterday, and last week. We are playing 3 at the back, and they work together very well. It looks like Ralph is heading back to his preferred/original formation of 3 at the back (hence Bertrand's desire not to stay), and Stephens, Vestegaard and Salisu seem to have already built up a good understanding in this formation, with Vest playing slightly deeper than the other two. Bednarek can presumably fit in as well, in place of Stephens if required, though on the evidence of the last few games Stephens is superior, and brings more to the team in terms of his organisation and vocal qualities. If we revert to 4 at the back then Salisu will get opportunities if Vest stays, and they have played together in a 4  already which didn't seem to be a problem (surprisingly, because I thought they would struggle).

I think Redmond will be shipped out this summer (I hope) in order to fund a replacement. There are plenty out there that still rate Redmond, and he would probably be in demand from one of the promoted sides so I don't think it would be too difficult to shift.  

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34 minutes ago, VectisSaint said:

They can play together at CB, they did yesterday, and last week. We are playing 3 at the back, and they work together very well. It looks like Ralph is heading back to his preferred/original formation of 3 at the back (hence Bertrand's desire not to stay), and Stephens, Vestegaard and Salisu seem to have already built up a good understanding in this formation, with Vest playing slightly deeper than the other two. Bednarek can presumably fit in as well, in place of Stephens if required, though on the evidence of the last few games Stephens is superior, and brings more to the team in terms of his organisation and vocal qualities. If we revert to 4 at the back then Salisu will get opportunities if Vest stays, and they have played together in a 4  already which didn't seem to be a problem (surprisingly, because I thought they would struggle).

I think Redmond will be shipped out this summer (I hope) in order to fund a replacement. There are plenty out there that still rate Redmond, and he would probably be in demand from one of the promoted sides so I don't think it would be too difficult to shift.  

I wonder if Pep still rates him as highly as he did at the time of the end of game cuddle-chat. City's for £40m or we'll take that young development prospect Foden in exchange.😂

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3 hours ago, Shroppie said:

I wasn't impressed. He was anonymous in the first half and apart from the goal, which was a mishit sliced shot, he looked out of his league.

Well he is next season.........

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