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Goalkeeper Issue


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I know I am kind of stating the obvious but we have two who aren't ideal plus a third out on loan who isn't the answer either.

Of the three I personally prefer McCarthy as he is better on crosses and more agile than Forster but Ralph has dropped him two or three times since he has been here so he obviously isn't totally convinced, and he does seem to make a lot of errors, like tonight.

Ludicrous to have Forster as our highest paid player and a likely sub, and he will be leaving anyway once his contract ends next season so is not a long term option. We know he will make some good reaction saves and then be beaten but shots he should save low down and despite his size be woefully shy on crosses.

I am not expecting us to sign a first team keeper because we will do well to get rid of one of the three permanently (Gunn most likely) but ideally we would because none of those we have are really good enough all round.

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None of our goal keepers are good enough. It's a shambles that as a club we've got ourselves into a situation with 3 goal keepers who cost us nearly £26m between them, earn upwards of £100k+ between them and they are all pretty much the same - average as hell. Capable of decent stuff, but equally capable of howlers.

We probably don't have the funds to get better because there aren't any clubs out there willing to provide us an return on investment on any of ours at the moment. Sad state of affairs really. Still carrying the left overs from the Reed and Wilson era.

 

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17 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

None of our goal keepers are good enough. It's a shambles that as a club we've got ourselves into a situation with 3 goal keepers who cost us nearly £26m between them, earn upwards of £100k+ between them and they are all pretty much the same - average as hell. Capable of decent stuff, but equally capable of howlers.

We probably don't have the funds to get better because there aren't any clubs out there willing to provide us an return on investment on any of ours at the moment. Sad state of affairs really. Still carrying the left overs from the Reed and Wilson era.

 

Think you can almost double those wages..

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If it was easy I'd sell all 3 and get a couple of new ones in. But it won't be that easy and I don't think they want to. I presume by the switching around of keepers RH is unsure which to keep/sell out of AMc and FF...which in itself is worrting except that its probably budget led. 

Of the two I prefer FF. 

We need a really strong player here to build from. 

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36 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

None of our goal keepers are good enough. It's a shambles that as a club we've got ourselves into a situation with 3 goal keepers who cost us nearly £26m between them, earn upwards of £100k+ between them and they are all pretty much the same - average as hell. Capable of decent stuff, but equally capable of howlers.

We probably don't have the funds to get better because there aren't any clubs out there willing to provide us an return on investment on any of ours at the moment. Sad state of affairs really. Still carrying the left overs from the Reed and Wilson era.

 

It'll be double that. Those 3 will be costing us £200k PW, or £10m a year in other words. Although the Forster contract extension was mental, the purchase of Gunn was really silly with the others on the payroll. 

I can't see who'd buy any of them. 

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GK/CB starters

20-21 | 65* GA   Forster/McCarthy - Vestergaard / Stephens / Bednarek

19-20 | 60 GA    McCarthy - Vestergaard / Stephens / Bednarek

18-19 | 65 GA    McCarthy - Vestergaard / Yoshida / Stephens / Bednarek

17-18 | 56 GA    Forster/McCarthy - Hoedt / Stephens / Yoshida

16-17 | 48 GA    Forster - VVD (1/2) / Fonte (1/2) /Stephens / Yoshida

15-16 | 41 GA    Forster/Stekelenburg - Fonte / VVD

14-15 | 33 GA    Forster - Fonte / Alderweireld

 

 

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20 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

He is 6 foot 3. He is hardly small.

He isn't 6'3 in a fit.

I've seen him and McCarthy side by side in a warm-up and McCarthy towers him.

Btw.. Wikipedia has Harrison Reed as 5'11. No chance that's right either.

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1 minute ago, SaintTex said:

GK/CB starters

20-21 | 65* GA   Forster/McCarthy - Vestergaard / Stephens / Bednarek

19-20 | 60 GA    McCarthy - Vestergaard / Stephens / Bednarek

18-19 | 65 GA    McCarthy - Vestergaard / Yoshida / Stephens / Bednarek

17-18 | 56 GA    Forster/McCarthy - Hoedt / Stephens / Yoshida

16-17 | 48 GA    Forster - VVD (1/2) / Fonte (1/2) /Stephens / Yoshida

15-16 | 41 GA    Forster/Stekelenburg - Fonte / VVD

14-15 | 33 GA    Forster - Fonte / Alderweireld

 

 

All that really shows is that with better defenders in front of Forster, he had less exposure to shots/less opportunity to make mistakes. As the quality of CB's in front of him reduced over the seasons, so did the shots on goal and thus his weaknesses became more apparent as he was tested more frequently.

McCarthy has never really been in front of a decent defence and he has always been in teams conceding alarming amounts of goals. 

Generally though, neither are good enough if we are serious about doing anything in this league. As backup, yes, but neither should be a starter if we have top 10 ambitions.

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2 minutes ago, JustinSFC said:

He isn't 6'3 in a fit.

I've seen him and McCarthy side by side in a warm-up and McCarthy towers him.

Btw.. Wikipedia has Harrison Reed as 5'11. No chance that's right either.

I'm not using Wikipedia, the club website says he is 191cm tall.

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Yep 3 largely average keepers in truth.

However, there are other more pressing areas that we need depth in so will have to stay put.

Over a season amazing goalkeepers can win you many a points but I can't remember the last time our keeper had say man of the match for example.

I like the look of Areola although I acknowledge there is always a danger of keepers at relegated clubs who are made to look better because of the number of shots they face. I think Martinez at Aston Villa is quality and they got a good purchase there.

Therefore, conclusion is whilst we have 'em, we need to use two of them. Start Forster and bench McCarthy - see if we can get anything for Gunn.

 

My final comment to make is whilst our transfer policy is to buy young so we can sell for a profit in the future, we really should shed that for CBs and GKs - I'm talking the likes of Krul are decent/experienced, or in terms of centrebacks Jonny Evans and Dawson at WHU have been tidy transfers. 

Edited by nta786
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They are both amazingly average, with Gunn just adding to that. If we could we should shift all three we should. McCarthy just lacks any sort of conviction in what he does, so indecisive. Forster not much better, but he does have a presence about him. I'd keep Forster until his contract runs out, and try to get someone else in, whilst trying to move on McCarthy and Gunn. Woodman for Swansea looked decent in their game yesterday, seems like Newcastle have a couple of keepers they might look to move one, with Darlow too.

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13 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

All that really shows is that with better defenders in front of Forster, he had less exposure to shots/less opportunity to make mistakes. As the quality of CB's in front of him reduced over the seasons, so did the shots on goal and thus his weaknesses became more apparent as he was tested more frequently.

McCarthy has never really been in front of a decent defence and he has always been in teams conceding alarming amounts of goals. 

Generally though, neither are good enough if we are serious about doing anything in this league. As backup, yes, but neither should be a starter if we have top 10 ambitions.

well I think one this is pretty clear -  the Vestergaard/Bednarek/Stephens thing isn't working.

giving up 60 or more every season for the last 3 seasons.

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26 minutes ago, Convict Colony said:

They are all terrible.

Get 1.5m for them all and get someone else

I'd take that. Just getting all 3 wages off the books is a win.

9 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

We’re below average because of our keepers. Not entirely but it’s part of the problem.

This.

16 minutes ago, nta786 said:

Yep 3 largely average keepers in truth.

However, there are other more pressing areas that we need depth in so will have to stay put.

Not many. We have got to get the goalkeeping situation sorted out once and for all, and the fact that we are rotating them shows that Ralph doesn't really rate any of them. The fact that all of them have been here longer than Ralph is absurd, hopefully the fact that Forster and McCarthy are entering the final year of their contracts means we will finally be able to do something about it.

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1 hour ago, Wade Garrett said:

Why’s that?  I think Forster has done well.

Better of the two more recently perhaps but not convinced that I'd want to rely on him over a season. This is based on his time with us overall rather than the last few weeks. 

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2 minutes ago, stevy777_x said:

There are so many good goalkeepers playing in Italy and Spain if we scout europe properly.

Unfortunately we seem to leave our goalkeeping scouting to Dave Watson who has managed to bring in the current crop 🤦🏻‍♂️

Thought he'd moved on to spreading his wisdom to the outfield players, which in itself might be a part of the wider problem.

Didn't we bring another GK coach to take on that role, Sparks ? 

Agree that we should be trawling Spain, Italy and Germany for a replacement.

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Forster is by far and away the best keeper we have and has looked good since being back in the 1st team.  Rotation is ridiculous when you have one keeper so significantly better than the other.

Don't just blame the keepers - we have a bang average squad.  Walcott, Djneppo, Redmond, Minamino, Stephens, Bednarek and others would struggle to get in another Prem side.  We have very little quality throughout the squad and will, rightly, be tagged as relegation candidates next season without a massive overhaul.

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Just now, Lee On Solent Saint said:

It's shocking that we have such poor quality keepers. You go back through the last 30/40 years and we've had some fantastic keepers, the three that we have are the poorest I can remember. Even Paul Jones wasn't as bad

Who ousted Maik Taylor, who again would be an improvement on the current batch. 

Mind you, Dave Beasant had his critics in his early days with us and was considered a bit of a liability at times. 

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Just now, washsaint said:

Forster is by far and away the best keeper we have and has looked good since being back in the 1st team.  Rotation is ridiculous when you have one keeper so significantly better than the other.

Don't just blame the keepers - we have a bang average squad.  Walcott, Djneppo, Redmond, Minamino, Stephens, Bednarek and others would struggle to get in another Prem side.  We have very little quality throughout the squad and will, rightly, be tagged as relegation candidates next season without a massive overhaul.

Not looking to defend the GK's we have but you have to admit the defence in front of them is fragile, and without defensive MF it's all a bit timid and feeble.

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Statistically speaking two of the biggest underperformers of expected saves are Forster and Mccarthy. They are way below our level, even if you consider us a 13th-17th side. They are both relegation quality and need to be shipped.

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Who could have predicted our policy of signing Palace, City and Newcastle's (before he went to Scotland's semi-retirement league) third choice keepers would result in a collection of shite?

I read we're now being linked with Lazio's reserve keeper...

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Fraser forster keep and use as a first give him game time and see if hes still able to be as good as he was.

Gunn cup keeper/backup until we get a new keeper in and move him to a cup keeper and then if its not working with forster then give them the top spot.

Mccarthy, see if we can get a mil for him

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3 hours ago, qwertyell said:

Who could have predicted our policy of signing Palace, City and Newcastle's (before he went to Scotland's semi-retirement league) third choice keepers would result in a collection of shite?

I read we're now being linked with Lazio's reserve keeper...

Forester was clearly signed as number 1 & McCarthy would be a decent 2. The problem was Forester was fucking horrendous after a while, and his replacement (Gunn) was rubbish as well. I don’t blame McCarthy, he’s a decent back up for a club like ours. Forester/Gunn are the ones  who haven’t lived up to the expectations. 

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Forster is the best goalkeeper we have and he keeps a lot of clean sheets. But, I'd get rid of McCarthy and Gunn (easier said than done) and get David Raya in from Brentford to be our long-term No 1.

Edited by Nordic Saint
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20 hours ago, Badger said:

Not looking to defend the GK's we have but you have to admit the defence in front of them is fragile, and without defensive MF it's all a bit timid and feeble.

True.

But also, our No1 couldn't get anywhere near Crystal Palace's matchday squad the entire time he was there.

We blatantly got blagged into Gunn and he was at Manchester City so he 'Must be good' and that's exactly what the sales pitch probably was too.

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38 minutes ago, JustinSFC said:

True.

But also, our No1 couldn't get anywhere near Crystal Palace's matchday squad the entire time he was there.

We blatantly got blagged into Gunn and he was at Manchester City so he 'Must be good' and that's exactly what the sales pitch probably was too.

For Manchester City, read Bayern, Lazio( tall Dutch CB, must be good, we've just sold one of those) etc. Les fell for it like a good 'un didn't he ?

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7 hours ago, Thedandysaint said:

Fraser forster keep and use as a first give him game time and see if hes still able to be as good as he was.

 

Anyone else spot an obvious flaw in this theory ?

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2 hours ago, JustinSFC said:

True.

But also, our No1 couldn't get anywhere near Crystal Palace's matchday squad the entire time he was there.

We blatantly got blagged into Gunn and he was at Manchester City so he 'Must be good' and that's exactly what the sales pitch probably was too.

Gunn was highly rated, England U21 GK who’d had a very good season at Norwich before he joined.

It was a strange move at the time, without selling either Fraser or McCarthy, but don’t think you can say we bought Gunn on a whim.

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19 minutes ago, ErwinK1961 said:

Gunn was highly rated, England U21 GK who’d had a very good season at Norwich before he joined.

It was a strange move at the time, without selling either Fraser or McCarthy, but don’t think you can say we bought Gunn on a whim.

In all seriousness, wasn't the main narrative at that time that Dave Watson was the main driving force behind Gunn joining?

I'm sure there several pieces in The Echo with words to that effect.

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McCarthy for me is superior to Forster.

However he seems to have lost his way after contracting coronavirus. Hard to say whether that's the cause of his poor form or not, might just be coincidence. Hopefully though he will be back to his best soon.

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6 minutes ago, Super_Uwe said:

McCarthy for me is superior to Forster.

However he seems to have lost his way after contracting coronavirus. Hard to say whether that's the cause of his poor form or not, might just be coincidence. Hopefully though he will be back to his best soon.

Not at the moment he isn’t. What was he doing for their goals? Or rather, what was he not doing?

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52 minutes ago, hackedoff said:

Flog all three and get in one decent one ( don't know who ) and that young Accrington keeper. Failing that try some traffic cones as an upgrade.

Juan Musso of Udinese

Alex Remiro of Real Sociedad

Timo Horn of Koln

 

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