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West Ham 3-0 Saints - Match Thread


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30 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

That's a stupid thing to say. Of course we have some clout because we are a premier league club. We have to make what pull we do have count though. 

I don't think it is. The calibre of player that we need to improve this squad aren't going to come to us. I don't think it's too much of a stretch to say that Diallo and Djenpo haven't improved us as a squad. We need proven players that have experience at the top level, not players who have had a handful of games in the French and Belgian leagues. Sure, we may get lucky with a couple over the years, but we need to be able to attract better.

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1 hour ago, Professor said:

Well put.  Another season of getting no where. Time for a clear out management, coaches and players.  Oh! And ownership.

Team name aswell..? re name the stadium?

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1 hour ago, Professor said:

Well put.  Another season of getting no where. Time for a clear out management, coaches and players.  Oh! And ownership.

Team name aswell..? re name the stadium?

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4 hours ago, Saint_clark said:

McCarthy should be holding that, I don't care what anyone says.

Fucking too right he should have gathered that ball in or at least palmed it out of harms way not into it.........................those ball must really hurt the hands these days as not too many gather them in these days,thus putting the defenders once again under enormous pressure to then attempt a block. 3 rd goal way out of position and his distribution is pants.  We as a defensive team conceded 43 goals away from home this season,not acceptable.

                                                     
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I got back in after playing footie this afternoon and luckily the streams were all a bit dodgy so I only saw the first two goals. As someone up the thread said, we are so brittle, playing some decent approach football with no bite. Redmond did try attacking his man but getting caught off-side by being so static, and not clearing when he had an opportunity was depressing. For the second do they coach them to leave players unmarked by a couple of yards in the box? You don't even get that at the base of the football pyramid!

But I'm not sure I've heard any real remedies. " Sell so-and-so and get in a decent something or other" sounds simple enough on the page, but not in practice. Telling us he shouldn't play Bednarek leaves us with whom? Bringing in Stephens would result in a different gang of critics.  There are some good buys out there - the Czech guy for WH as an example, so we can only hope Crocker's input helps us. Lawd knows what's going to happen with Hoedt, Lemina and Elyonoussi coming back..

 

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2 hours ago, Badger said:

Yes, a last day of the season them (under Alan Ball) or us for relegation. 1996 I think. 

Shit I remember that. City drew 2-2 at Liverpool and thought it was enough, we drew 0-0 with Wimbledon. I remember a tense last 10 minutes. If Wimbledon or City scored we’d have dropped. City players were celebrating at the final whistle but didn’t realize they were down.

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Posted (edited)

The thing that concerns me the most is that defensively we’re an utter shambles. That should be the first thing a coach/manager does, get us difficult to beat, solid at the back. Ralph doesn’t do this, stubbornly putting JWP and Arsmstrong/Diallo in front of the CBs and watches teams just walk through us without adapting,

Then there’s the frailty of the team. Look at all the goals we’ve conceded, almost 70% of the replays of those goals starts with us on the ball. We either take a throw in and give it straight to them or have a brain cramp and give it to them or try to pass it out and give it away. 

This sort of thing needs to be addressed in training. Instead we pass it around and when an opportunity presents itself the players are too knackered to make the killer pass/decision/shot. Why is this, why are we not fit enough?

Yes we had injuries and a tight schedule but so did the other teams and I don’t see them making as many basic errors as us. That’s got to do with how Ralph is running training/matches etc and the personnel he picks. 

His use of subs is diabolical. His team selections nonsensical. Adams was buzzing after scoring and assisting for Scotland, Ralph let him cool off on the bench while Redmond played up front. The young lad Jankiwitz (sp) had that mare up at OT. Ralph had plenty of opportunities to rehabilitate him and give him some minutes and get his confidence back. Instead he blanked the poor kid. The keeper situation. Fraser saves a penalty, he then brings in Calamity Alex. 

None of this makes any sense.

Edited by OttawaSaint
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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

I don't think it is. The calibre of player that we need to improve this squad aren't going to come to us. I don't think it's too much of a stretch to say that Diallo and Djenpo haven't improved us as a squad. We need proven players that have experience at the top level, not players who have had a handful of games in the French and Belgian leagues. Sure, we may get lucky with a couple over the years, but we need to be able to attract better.

I don't see why the likes of Burnley or Palace or even Brighton are much more of an attraction than we are. If the aim is to stay up then we could easily sign a few better than those two and maybe one of the promoted teams. Get in a decent loan signing and sign the equivalent of kwp for the left and we should be in a better place than we are now. Don't get me wrong I think we are in serious danger of relegation next year but it's silly to suggest it's hopeless at this point. There are some terrible teams down the bottom. 

Edited by hypochondriac
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We're all feeling a bit raw after a horrible season but ...... we are still in the game. Battered, bruised, and fragile as hell, but crucially have another opportunity to have a go at the EPL. Plenty of teams would swap with us, no matter how crap or hopeless the situation seems.

It remains to be seen whether the club is prepared to make the necessary changes, or meekly drift into relegation.

Goodness knows what those changes should be. We all have our own views but its pretty clear they need to be substantial.

 

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13 minutes ago, macca155 said:

We're all feeling a bit raw after a horrible season but ...... we are still in the game. Battered, bruised, and fragile as hell, but crucially have another opportunity to have a go at the EPL. Plenty of teams would swap with us, no matter how crap or hopeless the situation seems.

It remains to be seen whether the club is prepared to make the necessary changes, or meekly drift into relegation.

Goodness knows what those changes should be. We all have our own views but its pretty clear they need to be substantial.

 

Agreed. Still in the EPL. Still got an opportunity to finishing between 7th and 17th. Still get to watch City, United, Liverpool, Chelsea, etc.What more could a fan Of a provincial club ask for?

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41 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Agreed. Still in the EPL. Still got an opportunity to finishing between 7th and 17th. Still get to watch City, United, Liverpool, Chelsea, etc.What more could a fan Of a provincial club ask for?

some padded seats around the halfway line please

Edited by nta786
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I don't get all the negativity from a lot of posters on here for next season.  A lot of people  were banging on about how good Dyche and Potter were as managers but we finished above them. Newcastle are going to find it much more difficult without Willock, Palace have got a lot of potential  re-building to do and who knows how Wolves are going to do with a new manager.

Yes it has been a terrible second half of the season but where did people think we would be at the beginning of the season. A decent left back and a fit Ings and Oriol and we should be fine with some backup players.

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17 minutes ago, Yozzman said:

I don't get all the negativity from a lot of posters on here for next season.  A lot of people  were banging on about how good Dyche and Potter were as managers but we finished above them. Newcastle are going to find it much more difficult without Willock, Palace have got a lot of potential  re-building to do and who knows how Wolves are going to do with a new manager.

Yes it has been a terrible second half of the season but where did people think we would be at the beginning of the season. A decent left back and a fit Ings and Oriol and we should be fine with some backup players.

We should be a top half team at least and maybe not lose 9 0 so often 😉 

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I would love to have seen what the mood was in the changing room after the game, I envisage a lot of back slapping and high fives having maintained our prem status.  I wonder how the club assesses this car crash of a season....?  No doubt we'll be picking the meagre positives out of the season and not focusing too hard on the glaring negatives. 

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11 minutes ago, Streaky said:

We should be a top half team at least and maybe not lose 9 0 so often 😉 

I wonder how many teams have fans that believe they “should” be at least a top half team in the premier league, a lot more than 10 I’d wager!

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Just watched the replay on MOTD.

Fuck me, Bednarek for their third.

Next season's partnership has to be Salisu and Vestergaard.

That was absolutely shambolic from Bednarek that.

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24 minutes ago, JustinSFC said:

Just watched the replay on MOTD.

Fuck me, Bednarek for their third.

Next season's partnership has to be Salisu and Vestergaard.

That was absolutely shambolic from Bednarek that.

Yep. He seemed confused as though he didn’t know what to do.

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57 minutes ago, Micky said:

I would love to have seen what the mood was in the changing room after the game, I envisage a lot of back slapping and high fives having maintained our prem status.  I wonder how the club assesses this car crash of a season....?  No doubt we'll be picking the meagre positives out of the season and not focusing too hard on the glaring negatives. 

"yes bruv, another prem season, I'll maybe get me a second Lamborghini Urus now but in gold."

"nah bruv, I'm buying a house in the Turks and Caicos"

"Fat bruv"

i.e. I don't think they really give a f**k. They can all do one, one by one, following Hassenhuttl. Bye. 

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6 hours ago, Turkish said:

Agreed. Still in the EPL. Still got an opportunity to finishing between 7th and 17th. Still get to watch City, United, Liverpool, Chelsea, etc.What more could a fan Of a provincial club ask for?

This and similar posts are right. Saints have never won the EPL for a reason.  Next year, they just need to be better than the bottom three. They're good enough to do that although the prospect is hardly exciting.

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I turned off at half time and gave my step son the opportunity to watch his beloved Leeds. First season back in the prem and they are miles ahead of us in every way.
It was almost a side by side comparison that painfully emphasized how painfully poor we are at the moment.

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8 hours ago, Micky said:

I would love to have seen what the mood was in the changing room after the game, I envisage a lot of back slapping and high fives having maintained our prem status.  I wonder how the club assesses this car crash of a season....?  No doubt we'll be picking the meagre positives out of the season and not focusing too hard on the glaring negatives. 

I have lost a lot of faith in Ralph, I wonder what the players think, there must be times when they see the selections and formations and think wtf is he thinking. I don’t know what the mood in the dressing room would be, they are a group of young blokes who have the best job in the world. They have stayed in the prem, one year of a premier league players salary would set me up for the rest of my life comfortably. I doubt they see the world the way we do, so they probably are all laughing and joking and slapping each other on the back. As for the club I’m guessing similar applies, stayed in the prem, job done. Things will only change if we had a cashed up new owner who is passionate about success.

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10 hours ago, Turkish said:

Agreed. Still in the EPL. Still got an opportunity to finishing between 7th and 17th. Still get to watch City, United, Liverpool, Chelsea, etc.What more could a fan Of a provincial club ask for?

Well that is modern football. Unless a multi billionaire takes a fancy to Saints, that really is our pinnacle of hope.

Personally I'd like to see the club forge out an identity as being a pain in the arse to the richer clubs. Occasionally earning a European place, regular cup runs, and a sense of development.

Plenty of decent youngsters coming through, with experienced pros guiding them to success.

That has been our ID for many years, but at the moment Saints simply aren't competitive outside of the bottom 4 or 5 clubs. 

Feels like the 90s again.

 

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Just now, Saint Garrett said:

JWP played RWB, but it was a clusterfuck of errors, just like the first 2 goals

Do we know why KWP went off?  Injured or tactical?  If the latter then why disrupt the midfield.  Better surely for Diallo to come off for OR?

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9 hours ago, Micky said:

I would love to have seen what the mood was in the changing room after the game, I envisage a lot of back slapping and high fives having maintained our prem status.  I wonder how the club assesses this car crash of a season....?  No doubt we'll be picking the meagre positives out of the season and not focusing too hard on the glaring negatives. 

They better not have! They wouldn't be feeling the love if crowds had been back for a while. No way would those performances been tolerated.

In reality the players will be thinking about the Euros, holidays, or talking to their agent.

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We were good for the first 30 mins but went to pieces after Mini and KWP missed those two chances. We were poor from then on with massive errors for the goals  and no body on the pitch showing any leadership and rollicking  some of those players for the way they were performing. We obviously  need some player changes and can only hope they will be leaders.

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10 hours ago, JustinSFC said:

Just watched the replay on MOTD.

Fuck me, Bednarek for their third.

Next season's partnership has to be Salisu and Vestergaard.

That was absolutely shambolic from Bednarek that.

Bednarek has been shambolic for most of the season, he is simply not good enough like several others. I'd rather have Stephens playing which says it all. 

We need a massive refresh of the squad this summer but realistically it's not going to happen. 

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It was nice for McCarthy to set up Fornals anyway. 
 

Can’t get over how shambolic our goalkeeper situation has become, it’s made the mix and matching in 2012/13 look good. 

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18 hours ago, Saint Billy said:

Are you for real. I would rather watch us in the championship and win more games than be served that up every week in the premiership. 

 

I think I'm one of the few here who is for real. Unlike most I don't expect us to play like 2010 Barcelona every game. I don't expect every pass to reach it's intended man, I don't expect every attack to result in a goal, I don't expect our keeper to save everything, I don't expect our defence to repel every attack.

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1 hour ago, Appy said:

It was nice for McCarthy to set up Fornals anyway. 
 

Can’t get over how shambolic our goalkeeper situation has become, it’s made the mix and matching in 2012/13 look good. 

It's shambolic enough with Forster and Macca. But if you add in the nonsense of bringing in Gunn who isn't good enough to displace either of them, when we had no money, was absolutely ridiculous.

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2 hours ago, Appy said:

It was nice for McCarthy to set up Fornals anyway. 
 

Can’t get over how shambolic our goalkeeper situation has become, it’s made the mix and matching in 2012/13 look good. 

Having seen the highlights I can safely say that Macca was not at fault for any of the goals. WTF was he supposed to do with the first?? He had 2 choices, save it as he did or watch it go past him into the net. It was unfortunate that it was Fornals following in and not one of ours but that's football. Anyone who says otherwise clearly doesn't know anything about goalkeeping, does anyone seriously think he should have held it? Laughable.

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15 minutes ago, cloggy saint said:

Having seen the highlights I can safely say that Macca was not at fault for any of the goals. WTF was he supposed to do with the first?? He had 2 choices, save it as he did or watch it go past him into the net. It was unfortunate that it was Fornals following in and not one of ours but that's football. Anyone who says otherwise clearly doesn't know anything about goalkeeping, does anyone seriously think he should have held it? Laughable.

Not any of the goals? For the second game running he made no attempt to save a fairly tame shot for the second.

For the third he was slow off his line and then left a space wider than the Mersey Tunnel at his near post. He might as well have pointed to Rice where he should shoot. 

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4 hours ago, cloggy saint said:

I think I'm one of the few here who is for real. Unlike most I don't expect us to play like 2010 Barcelona every game. I don't expect every pass to reach it's intended man, I don't expect every attack to result in a goal, I don't expect our keeper to save everything, I don't expect our defence to repel every attack.

So you are ok with our performances of late, thats fine. I certainly am not.
 

Not one person on here would expect us to perform like 2010 Barcelona but it would be nice to see them trying to.

My expectations are not high considering our financial limitations but it would give us all a shot in the arm to at least witness us being more competitive and not caving in so easily. Then there is the 18 goals against us in two games, how the hell can you find that acceptable and then moan at everyone else for not being content with it.

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3 hours ago, cloggy saint said:

Having seen the highlights I can safely say that Macca was not at fault for any of the goals. WTF was he supposed to do with the first?? He had 2 choices, save it as he did or watch it go past him into the net. It was unfortunate that it was Fornals following in and not one of ours but that's football. Anyone who says otherwise clearly doesn't know anything about goalkeeping, does anyone seriously think he should have held it? Laughable.

I don’t think anybody has suggested that, but he got enough of a hand on it to push it back upfield and could more easily have just pushed it wide and behind. Was it even going into the net?

For the second he must have had his eyes shut. He could at least have shown willing.

For the third he could have been more active and charged at Rice. Instead he might just as well have leant against a post and waved him through.

It’s not as though these are isolated examples. He has made serious blunders going back over more than one season.

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I don't think there were any glaring errors from the goal keeper per say, but he is very indecisive and generally not very good.

A good goalkeeper would have pulled off a great save on at least one of those, in my opinion, but he doesn't seem capable of that. Any shot at him and it's likely that it goes into the back of the net, which is a pain in the arse when you've dominated most of the opening period and the oppo have their first shot.

I'd like a goalie who is capable of pulling off a worldie every now and then, but we don't that. Even the 3 relegated sides have better goalkeepers than we do.

The links to goalkeepers do kind of suggest the club feel the same way, but it's the age old problem of McCarthy, Forster and Gunn being signed for big money/on decent wages and still under contract. Another absolute mess.

 

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35 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

I don’t think anybody has suggested that, but he got enough of a hand on it to push it back upfield and could more easily have just pushed it wide and behind. Was it even going into the net?

For the second he must have had his eyes shut. He could at least have shown willing.

For the third he could have been more active and charged at Rice. Instead he might just as well have leant against a post and waved him through.

It’s not as though these are isolated examples. He has made serious blunders going back over more than one season.

For the second he was wrong-footed and it took a small deflection, not much he could have done about that. For the third Rice shaped to put it across the keeper to the far post and then cleverly finished at the near post. Why didn't the commentators or pundits mention anything about poor goalkeeping? Because it didn't happen. Trust me, I know what I'm talking about 😉.

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