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51 minutes ago, qwertyell said:

Nah, he's just garbage, always has been. No serious club in England would hire him as a manager; he lucked into the u21 gig - where he did nothing of worth - and has since lucked into the senior job. Not because of footballing merit, but because the FA needed a nodding dog to tow the party line and not make waves. He sticks steadfastly to the script - which can also be said of his tactical approach.

The easiest ever run in a world cup, where he lost three times and only beat Tunisia, Panama and Sweden somehow elevated him to "elite" manager status - whereas he's still the guy who's only meaningful contribution to football management is getting Middlesbrough relegated.

Watching a keeper, two centre backs and two holding midfielders slowly pass the ball backwards between themselves while an array of attacking talent stands in a line 70 yards away alongside opposition defenders who can't believe how easy a night they're having isn't a new development. He's been playing this way - no matter the formation - since day one.

He's one of those basic managers that saw Spain dominate the 2010s with possession football and concluded that keeping the ball was all that's required to ensure success. No nuance to it. Just keep passing back and the wins will follow. Propaganda-ball.

And he's not helped himself by picking a squad of injured players. By my reckoning, Henderson, Maguire, Rashford, Kane, Grealish and Saka (he's been managing a hip problem for months) are way short of optimum condition. More poor management.

I mean, even Spurs haven't tried to hire him. 

This 100%.

The Mr Nice and Correct of football. Hopefully this tournament will be his last. 

Honestly, for the first time ever we have a vast array of talent at England's disposal and yet we have one of the most negative, dullest, unimaginative yes man in charge. 

And whilst I have my rant hat on, this team played like they have never played together as a unit, why?, because in the main they haven't. The friendly's we play are never used to gel a team but just to try different players out. Result, a waste of time and a waste of opportunity. 

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Get the beers in and sit and enjoy the football that most of the other countries can serve up. We have the best domestic league in the world,but only because of the contribution of foreign players.With the odd exception the domestic product is dross,highlighted every tournament.

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21 minutes ago, waylander said:

Would have been no worse than the backwards and sideways passing that was on display last night and the piece deliveries were dire - he would certainly have improved on those.

So the objective is to "not do any worse" but just to be able to say "look look there's a Saints player on TV, there's a Saints player on TV".

There were choices from the available squad that would have actually improved things.

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11 minutes ago, hackedoff said:

Get the beers in and sit and enjoy the football that most of the other countries can serve up. We have the best domestic league in the world,but only because of the contribution of foreign players.With the odd exception the domestic product is dross,highlighted every tournament.

A large number of the England squad have been in the Champions League or Europa League final in the last few years.

The big issue last night was the ineptitude of the manager... not the quality of English players.

Edited by Matthew Le God
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11 minutes ago, hackedoff said:

Get the beers in and sit and enjoy the football that most of the other countries can serve up. We have the best domestic league in the world,but only because of the contribution of foreign players.With the odd exception the domestic product is dross,highlighted every tournament.

"Dross Domestic Product" would be an excellent title for a book chronicling the last 50 years of the England team.

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15 minutes ago, hackedoff said:

Get the beers in and sit and enjoy the football that most of the other countries can serve up. We have the best domestic league in the world,but only because of the contribution of foreign players.With the odd exception the domestic product is dross,highlighted every tournament.

Have to agree.  The oddball who writes the Ugly Inside stuff maintains if only Prowsey was playing, England would be playing teams off the park.

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Typical England international performance, no tempo, too slow, it happens time and time again. 

Don't know what has happened to Kane, seems totally off the ball, either completely knackered or distracted by wanting to move.

20-30 minutes of the game against Croatia we honestly looked really good and I had hope, the tempo dropping off in 29 degrees heat in the middle of the day I can understand.

No tempo in an evening game that wasn't hot and was drizzling so they could zip the ball about it just baffling. 

I think we'll actually be better against better teams because we seem set up to keep it solid and there will be more space in behind. Plus Portugal won the thing drawing most of their games so there is always that! 

 

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I think most of us are probably quite pleased that Ings and JWP weren't associated with yesterday's disjointed c**p and are getting a bit of much needed R&R.  Plus a bit of a confidence boost for Adams (although his finishing still needs work).

It's not that either would have made any difference, but you sit there thinking they couldn't do worse, and the free kicks would at least beat the first man..

 

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7 minutes ago, austsaint said:

Have to agree.  The oddball who writes the Ugly Inside stuff maintains if only Prowsey was playing, England would be playing teams off the park.

The biase on here for saints players  is embarrassing. I mean, Adams motm!, just because he covered a lot of space and ran his legs off doesn't excuse the fact that once again he missed a couple of golden opportunities to score. 

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The tactics, personnel and subs were all wrong. Rice was deeper than needed. Philips was too distant from Rice, and making runs into dead ends that weren't being picked out. The full backs didn't get forward enough. Sterling was just shite. Foden and Mount were trying to get us going but had the useless Kane gave them no real options. Then the subs. Grealish on too late, but Foden off for him was nuts. Sterling off in a straight swap was obvious, or even braver, Phillips and giving Grealish a free ish role from the middle. Sancho would have given us pace and invention.

Generally though, we were pedestrian, lacked creativity, and generally utter shite. Players poor. Southgate worse. 

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24 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

A large number of the England squad have been in the Champions League or Europa League final in the last few years.

The big issue last night was the ineptitude of the manager... not the quality of English players.

If you removed their foreign teammates they wouldn't have got within sight of those finals.

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9 minutes ago, Saint Billy said:

The biase on here for saints players  is embarrassing. I mean, Adams motm!, just because he covered a lot of space and ran his legs off doesn't excuse the fact that once again he missed a couple of golden opportunities to score. 

Football fans biased towards their own team.....what a shocker! 

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1 hour ago, JRM said:

Mings said himself in the post match interview that England "lacked intensity " without giving any reason why. Seemed to me the players just couldn't match Scotland's commitment and effort, no excuses for that. 

Pleased to see Adams receive so many compliments during the game, been great experience for him, just a shame he's not a better finisher. Certainly on the basis of that one game if you offered me the choice between Kane and Adams i know who I would pick. 

Never understand that. Not just this match, you'll often hear players say the same thing after a mediocre team performance.  So they (or at least Mings) realised during the game that they needed to up their game. So where was the geeing up of team-mates? Who was encouraging them to step up the pace a bit. Why no complaining to team-mates when you've played a good ball and they diodn't make the expected run, or vice-versa. Who was doing the shouting at fellow defenders for not getting close enough to the opposition. Who was risking a yellow card to put in a few crunching tackles to persuade the opposition they might be better off chickening out of the next 50:50 ball. Captain was Kane but he comes across as the least likely player on the pitch to "have a go".  By the look of him he was struggling to talk to himself last night let alone anyone else.

Intensity isn't a tactic it's a state of mind, and if Southgate was happy to watch that from the touchlines with minimal substitutions (was it only 2? and did I really hear the comentator say Henderson was warming up at one stage? ) I can only assume he's totally incapable of changing their mindset. Man for man, every one of our players was better than his opposite number on paper (might make Robersson/Shaw an exception) yet he allowed them to let themselves be totally outplayed. If he's going to sheepishly stand by on the touchline and allow "lack of intensity" like that he may as well go now and let someone like Sean Dyche come in and stick a proverbial rocket up thier arses.

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10 minutes ago, suewhistle said:

I think most of us are probably quite pleased that Ings and JWP weren't associated with yesterday's disjointed c**p and are getting a bit of much needed R&R.  Plus a bit of a confidence boost for Adams (although his finishing still needs work).

It's not that either would have made any difference, but you sit there thinking they couldn't do worse, and the free kicks would at least beat the first man..

 

I actually think they would have made all of the difference. Just think, Ings instead of Sterling?

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4 minutes ago, hackedoff said:

If you removed their foreign teammates they wouldn't have got within sight of those finals.

Guardiola and Klopp aren't picking them for shits and giggles.

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England were crap. Unimaginative, pedestrian and uninspiring. There is no doubt about that. We are not going to win the Euros. Scotland were the underdogs and put in a good performance. They were the better team - fact.

BUT

the current media wankfest over Scotland is beginning to get on my nerves. They are still bottom of the group and will need at least to score and get something out of the match against Croatia. They haven't scored yet in this competition. Anyone would think that they did actually win the match the way that 5 Live and their fans, when interviewed , have gone on about it.

Pompey fans reacted the same way after the 2 -2 draw at St Mary's. The result didn't stop our promotion. It didn't stop their relegation. They even started "David Norris" day to remember their wonderful "victory". Perhaps the Jocks will start "Che Adams" day. 

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Why do I get excited every time just to end up watching the same dross and mediocre performances by players who are performing well for their clubs week in, week out? It never changes. Southgate perfectly encapsulates the emasculated nature of 21st century football. 

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I just wish I was one of the supporters who had no interest and stopped supporting England after JWP snub. Then I wouldn’t get annoyed at how shit we are.
 

I know it is easy to blame the manager but I do. Got so much attacking talent at his disposal and never utilises it. Won’t have the bollocks to drop Kane either who has been ineffective so far.

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3 hours ago, qwertyell said:

Nah, he's just garbage, always has been. No serious club in England would hire him as a manager; he lucked into the u21 gig - where he did nothing of worth - and has since lucked into the senior job. Not because of footballing merit, but because the FA needed a nodding dog to tow the party line and not make waves. He sticks steadfastly to the script - which can also be said of his tactical approach.

The easiest ever run in a world cup, where he lost three times and only beat Tunisia, Panama and Sweden somehow elevated him to "elite" manager status - whereas he's still the guy who's only meaningful contribution to football management is getting Middlesbrough relegated.

Watching a keeper, two centre backs and two holding midfielders slowly pass the ball backwards between themselves while an array of attacking talent stands in a line 70 yards away alongside opposition defenders who can't believe how easy a night they're having isn't a new development. He's been playing this way - no matter the formation - since day one.

He's one of those basic managers that saw Spain dominate the 2010s with possession football and concluded that keeping the ball was all that's required to ensure success. No nuance to it. Just keep passing back and the wins will follow. Propaganda-ball.

And he's not helped himself by picking a squad of injured players. By my reckoning, Henderson, Maguire, Rashford, Kane, Grealish and Saka (he's been managing a hip problem for months) are way short of optimum condition. More poor management.

I mean, even Spurs haven't tried to hire him. 

Great post. The bloke is fucking useless.

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1 hour ago, Toussaint said:

I actually think they would have made all of the difference. Just think, Ings instead of Sterling?

There's Saints tainted specs, but calling for Ings on the left wing is a bit much. Grealish, Sancho, Rashford for sure, but not Ings. 

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Enjoyed the game, had a bit more to it because of the tribalism. Not having it that it was a crap game. Scotland were great, the better team because they wanted it more and were the underdog. In many ways it shadowed many a Saints performance against the big boys from time to time.

Don't get this England catasophising. Happens every tournament. It’s one game, calm down. They will qualify and get into the knockouts. 

The expectation kills England supporters every single time. Just stop it. Support your team until they go out and then you can use your guillotine.

look how Scotland are celebrating having 1 point from two games. They are enjoying the ride. They didn’t go overboard after defeat to the Czechs.

 I honestly don’t know how some England fans get any enjoyment out of tournaments at all. It’s either coming home or fkin disaster. In fact be gracious and well done that England gave another home nation a chance to get through. 

Just accept it and move on. Christ, as Saints fans its the only way we survive a season lol. England will play better and have a few more weeks to go yet so enjoy the team, weather and beer and chill the f out.

well done Scotland and England for a crackin game.

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Southgate comes across as a great guy, speaks very well about complex topics, seems thoughtful and has done an excellent job of creating a good atmosphere at the England camp.

It's a shame he's a shit manager.

 

Glad to see him taking the flak in the media today, we were shambolic. Foden our only player that looked interested in going forward - but we can't have that, get him off.

Not sure if it's just my Saints bias talking but that was exactly the kind of game where we needed JWP to come in in place of Phillips to move the ball quicker, make some forward runs and to not hit the bloody first man at every corner or free kick.

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God almighty Aidy Boothroyd in Sky. “We’d have all taken 4 points from first two games”. “On Tuesday we will realise what a great point it was against Scotland”

I know he has gone now but why does the  FA want these negative managers?

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20 minutes ago, Antrimsaint said:

Enjoyed the game, had a bit more to it because of the tribalism. Not having it that it was a crap game. Scotland were great, the better team because they wanted it more and were the underdog. In many ways it shadowed many a Saints performance against the big boys from time to time.

Don't get this England catasophising. Happens every tournament. It’s one game, calm down. They will qualify and get into the knockouts. 

The expectation kills England supporters every single time. Just stop it. Support your team until they go out and then you can use your guillotine.

look how Scotland are celebrating having 1 point from two games. They are enjoying the ride. They didn’t go overboard after defeat to the Czechs.

 I honestly don’t know how some England fans get any enjoyment out of tournaments at all. It’s either coming home or fkin disaster. In fact be gracious and well done that England gave another home nation a chance to get through. 

Just accept it and move on. Christ, as Saints fans its the only way we survive a season lol. England will play better and have a few more weeks to go yet so enjoy the team, weather and beer and chill the f out.

well done Scotland and England for a crackin game.

Cracking game? Fck me you are easily pleased. Was it the one shot on target that excited you?

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12 hours ago, wild-saint said:

Exactly this. Two defensive midfield players expected to provide the creative link through midfield. Negative dull football. I’d sack Southgate right now before we ruin yet another generation of top talent.

Don't seem anything that special to be honest when compared with earlier 'generations'.

2 hours ago, Saint Billy said:

This 100%.

The Mr Nice and Correct of football. Hopefully this tournament will be his last. 

Honestly, for the first time ever we have a vast array of talent at England's disposal and yet we have one of the most negative, dullest, unimaginative yes man in charge. 

 

First time ever ???

This has been similar to the line trotted out for as long as I can remember, certainly since our failure to qualify in 1974. After that we had the emerging talents of Peter Barnes and David Fairclough who would see us through to glory in 1978, we didn't qualify. Around the late 70's the press highlighted the emerging  young talented black players (they were allowed to write such stuff then) that gave us an advantage over the rest of Europe with Anderson, Cunningham, and Regis ... as good as they were at club level it didn't help the national team..

We've since had the 'golden generation' that probably gave us what should have been the basis for a dominant and possibly our most successful national team ever, didn't win anything, then the arrival of Rooney (one goal in a World Cup Finals series) !

Rather like struggling at club level it's very easy to point to what's in the pipeline for the future (even Ian Branfoot did it!) but whilst we do this Germany and France produce successive generations and teams in the 'here and now' who deliver.

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19 minutes ago, whelk said:

Cracking game? Fck me you are easily pleased. Was it the one shot on target that excited you?

Some of us enjoy chess as opposed to draughts. As a neutral and no skin in the game I enjoyed the tension and jeopardy. It was great. I was slightly more in favour of Scotland, being the underdog, but I loved it far more than some of the other games. Loved how Che played. Looked like he deserved to be there far more than Kane. Probably my 3rd favourite game. Doesn’t have to be 5-5 or2-2 even. 

One team versus great individuals. Classic, rain affected. Would only have been bettered if they had 50-50 split of a full stadium. Crikey that bit at the end , the rugby scrum was brilliant. When was the last time you saw that in an international. That’s what our game used to be like lol. Loved it.

 I get it, England fans are disappointed but it’s one game. Southgate will have seen  the same as everyone else and will switch accordingly for the next game.

All I’m saying is enjoy the ride or you won’t get any enjoyment out of this tournament. I sometimes think England fans feel entitled to play like Brazil every tournament. England never has. England had one great great against Holland 25 years ago. I think a change of mindset would help the fans go with the flow through a tournament and enjoy it more. 

Scotland, Wales don’t expect it so go with hope rather than expectations. I think it’s a far more fun way to enjoy the tournament that’s all. Can’t be good for the blood pressure.

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Southgate the player was very critical of Sven, but he’s now finding out this international management isn’t as easy as it looks.

Fell into the English trap of possession for the sake of it. Pedestrian, backwards, sideways. Other countries use possession to move the opposition around and then, bang!!! a quick incisive pass and they’re in. We’re just recycling the ball over and over (very much like Saints at their worst). When we win the ball back early we settle back into the easy options, rather than take a risk which may break down. The upshot is The Sweaties we’re able to defend in their set formations pretty much all game. 
 

The game was crying out for something different, Grealish earlier, Sancho or even Calvert Lewin who is more physical & different than Rashford. That’s the thing that done my nut in, the predictability of Southgate. Rashford maybe national treasure but he’s been fucking woeful lately. 
 

Che should be proud of his efforts. His positional play was great, he held the ball up well and showed real ability, apart from in front of goal. I guess that’s why he plays for us and The Sweaties, rather than a top 8 side & England. 

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44 minutes ago, igsey said:

 

Not sure if it's just my Saints bias talking but that was exactly the kind of game where we needed JWP to come in in place of Phillips to move the ball quicker, make some forward runs and to not hit the bloody first man at every corner or free kick.

When’s he ever made forward runs or moved the ball quicker. We played exactly like Saints do at their worst, and when we’re like that, he’s one of the main culprits. Sideways, backwards, over and over. So yes, it is your Saints bias. 

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11 hours ago, cambsaint said:

England were so poor and lacklustre to be almost unbelievable.

Scotland played their hearts out and by the end for the first time in my life I didn't want England to thrash the Scots (in any sport) and was hoping it would end a draw.

 

 

Agree with you, probably summarised in a caption on the Telegraph this morning "Scotland brave hearted, England half hearted".

1 hour ago, Tamesaint said:

England were crap. Unimaginative, pedestrian and uninspiring. There is no doubt about that. We are not going to win the Euros. Scotland were the underdogs and put in a good performance. They were the better team - fact.

BUT

the current media wankfest over Scotland is beginning to get on my nerves. They are still bottom of the group and will need at least to score and get something out of the match against Croatia. They haven't scored yet in this competition. Anyone would think that they did actually win the match the way that 5 Live and their fans, when interviewed , have gone on about it.

Pompey fans reacted the same way after the 2 -2 draw at St Mary's. The result didn't stop our promotion. It didn't stop their relegation. They even started "David Norris" day to remember their wonderful "victory". Perhaps the Jocks will start "Che Adams" day. 

Yes, nauseating. We take the piss out of TCWAB down the road for dressing up, yet the news is full of grown men in their 50's and 60's going to a football match dressed for a walk on part in a historical recreation of Bannockburn ( or Culloden but they won't mention that one) complete with head dress etc.

I admire their sense of patriotism but grow up ffs.

Galling that they display a hostility to the English yet the English media lap it up. Souness was in full flow last night before the match and let it slip saying about the significance of England v Scotland  "we don't like each other..." . He didn't  qualify it to say it was about football. 

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2 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

When’s he ever made forward runs or moved the ball quicker. We played exactly like Saints do at their worst, and when we’re like that, he’s one of the main culprits. Sideways, backwards, over and over. So yes, it is your Saints bias. 

Scotland played like Saints at their best, underdogs frustrating the big boys. As Saints fans your support of England should remain the same. All of a sudden because it’s England some Saints fans turn into the Manu or Chelsea mindset of should be demolishing little teams all th time. We know why the game went as it did because we Saints have done it for decades.

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2 minutes ago, Antrimsaint said:

Scotland played like Saints at their best, underdogs frustrating the big boys. As Saints fans your support of England should remain the same. All of a sudden because it’s England some Saints fans turn into the Manu or Chelsea mindset of should be demolishing little teams all th time. We know why the game went as it did because we Saints have done it for decades.

We should have demolished them, we’ve got far better players.
 

Your point is pony. If Saints play Portsmouth, wouldn’t we  have a “Manu or Chelsea mindset” and think we’re going to be demolishing them. Or do we have to have the same, little old Saints underdog attitude whether we’re playing Liverpool or Tranmere. 

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6 minutes ago, Badger said:

of grown men in their 50's and 60's going to a football match dressed for a walk on part in a historical recreation of Bannockburn ( or Culloden but they won't mention that one) complete with head dress etc.

I admire their sense of patriotism but grow up ffs.

Galling that they display a hostility to the English yet the English media lap it up. Souness was in full flow last night before the match and let it slip saying about the significance of England v Scotland  "we don't like each other..." . He didn't  qualify it to say it was about football. 

Oh ffs, have you met any Scots. Their self loathing is legendary. They know they are shit. Let them have a little glory. They drew at Wembley to the mighty England in a tournament. 

Of course they dress up to fight the auld enemy. It’s the only modern way they can. They had a party. My God you should have seen the party after Norn Iron beat England 1-0 all those years ago. It is classic sibling rivalry. The big brother always gets it and England always gets to be the classic patronising show pony.

And it’s the British press not the English press. You be be far better placed to  just smile and say there, there and go on and win the thing than harrumph about little brother laughing at your expense.

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3 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

We should have demolished them, we’ve got far better players.
 

Your point is pony. If Saints play Portsmouth, wouldn’t we  have a “Manu or Chelsea mindset” and think we’re going to be demolishing them. Or do we have to have the same, little old Saints underdog attitude whether we’re playing Liverpool or Tranmere. 

No, we do get above our station from time to time yes but I like to think most Saints fans are more gracious, with some exceptions, than our more salubrious cousins.

Are you seven? Better players, should have demolished them lol. Beautiful tactical reasoning.

maybe should have had more Anglo Saxon players eh?

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Ive been in two minds about this, ultimately we haven't had the worst start, we've never really looked in any danger over the last 180 minutes, but then, arguably we never should be against the likes of Scotland or a poor Croatia

Our weakness has always been defensively going into this, and Southgate has obviously accepted that and set up accordingly. You do, after all, win tournaments by not conceding.

My issue is though, for such an array of attacking talent and flair we look so ordinary and devoid of ideas in the final third. I said it against the Croatians and Ill say it again.... Kane looks injured, slow and lethargic. Sterling flattered to deceive against the Croatians and I have no idea how he stayed on last night

This tournament is set up to favour defensive action, thats why it has been relatively dull. If we are unable to find an attacking thrust I can't see us progressing past even Spain or Germany

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7 minutes ago, Smirking_Saint said:

They are probably picking them as they have to have a certain number of domestic bias though

Do you not think...

Foden

Sterling

Maguire

Henderson

James

Rashford

Stones

Chilwell

Walker

Shaw 

Mount 

...played an important part in their respective clubs making European finals in the last 3 years? That is quite a large list, bigger than many other nations.

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1 hour ago, igsey said:

we needed JWP to come in in place of Phillips to move the ball quicker, make some forward runs

So JWP is now some kind of mythical fictional player that no one has actually seen in real life.

Where was all this spectacular play when we couldn’t even beat 9 man Newcastle?

As i say, people are losing their minds here.

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Just now, Matthew Le God said:

Do you not think Foden, Sterling, Alexander-Arnold, Maguire, Henderson, James, Rashford, Stones, Chilwell, Walker, Shaw and Mount played an important part in their respective clubs making European finals in the last 3 years? That is quite a large list, bigger than many other nations.

Of course they played an important role, they are the best of our domestic cohort

That said, very few of those are the best players in their individual teams though are they ?

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Just now, Smirking_Saint said:

Of course they played an important role, they are the best of our domestic cohort

That said, very few of those are the best players in their individual teams though are they ?

Their teams are the best in Europe so you'd have to be exceptional to be their very best player. England have a striker in Kane who'd be first choice for the vast majority of teams in the world at club and international level.

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2 minutes ago, Antrimsaint said:

Oh ffs, have you met any Scots. Their self loathing is legendary. They know they are shit. Let them have a little glory. They drew at Wembley to the mighty England in a tournament. 

Of course they dress up to fight the auld enemy. It’s the only modern way they can. They had a party. My God you should have seen the party after Norn Iron beat England 1-0 all those years ago. It is classic sibling rivalry. The big brother always gets it and England always gets to be the classic patronising show pony.

And it’s the British press not the English press. You be be far better placed to  just smile and say there, there and go on and win the thing than harrumph about little brother laughing at your expense.

A voice of reason, none of which I can strongly disagree with if I put my rational (rather than a tribal football fan) head on.

Have met many Scots, generally a great bunch especially over a few beers. The football chat has been great, but the international fixture does change the stance of both parties.

I'd also accept the Scot's annoyance at the media and when they make reference to "1966" at the earliest opportunity in the commentary- I think we Saints fans realise the 'certain match' syndrome does get on your tits - although on these occasions I expect it's deemed 'the English press'. 

 

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1 minute ago, Badger said:

A voice of reason, none of which I can strongly disagree with if I put my rational (rather than a tribal football fan) head on.

Have met many Scots, generally a great bunch especially over a few beers. The football chat has been great, but the international fixture does change the stance of both parties.

I'd also accept the Scot's annoyance at the media and when they make reference to "1966" at the earliest opportunity in the commentary- I think we Saints fans realise the 'certain match' syndrome does get on your tits - although on these occasions I expect it's deemed 'the English press'. 

 

Fair play mate, well said 👏 You are the fan that England deserves and my God the vast majority of us little brothers bang the drum for England when they play anyone else.

 I was 11 and my whole Northern Irish family were decked out in England flags whilst playing Cameroon. I missed most of the game because I couldn’t watch because the intensity was too much so don’t get too het up at we all hate England. We don’t ffs. Only when we play you lol.

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6 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

Their teams are the best in Europe so you'd have to be exceptional to be their very best player. England have a striker in Kane who'd be first choice for the vast majority of teams in the world at club and international level.

You are doing your best pedantry to move the conversation away from what we were talking about in the first place

City and Chelsea don't get to finals without their best players, that are arguably their foreigners

If there was no domestic quota then the likes of City, liverpool and Chelsea are able to find better and probably cheaper alternatives in every position

Kane and perhaps Trent aside their isn't any England player in the top 3 of their position IMO

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1 minute ago, Matthew Le God said:

That is a complete red herring of a statement, the same can be said of any team that gets to a European final!

You've literally clipped half the sentence

I really cannot be bothered with this level of pedantry

England have a good side, but our quality isn't as good as we think it is, and it is compounded by an international manager that prioritises defensive play

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5 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

Removing it doesn't alter your statement in a meaningful way. So the rebuttal is still valid.

Of course it does, the statement effectively suggested that, of the teams quoted, they are unlikely to reach a final without their best players, and of those teams their 'stars' are almost always foreign... not english

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29 minutes ago, Antrimsaint said:

No, we do get above our station from time to time yes but I like to think most Saints fans are more gracious, with some exceptions, than our more salubrious cousins.

Are you seven? Better players, should have demolished them lol. Beautiful tactical reasoning.

maybe should have had more Anglo Saxon players eh?

I fully get all you're saying and really can't find fault with much of it.

Being ex-RN I have many friends from all corners of these isles. We always have great banter over sports, especially football and rugby. I have also lived in Glasgow a couple of times and spent a few days on the razz with the Tartan Army when Scotland played Belarus in Minsk (even though I openly admitted to supporting Belarus in the match, in support of my wife, her family and our friends). Only a very small minority are rabidly anti-English, and they were always put in their box by their fellow Scots.

Was chatting to a Polish mate this morning who also really enjoyed last night's match. For a neutral, it was a good game to watch. Good matches don't have to have lots of goals. For me, too many England players went missing last night. They simply weren't brave enough and Southgate had us set up too defensively. But hey ho, we will still qualify from the group and progress to the knockouts. Then we really must up our game or go out.

As for Ducky (like a few others I could mention) he is full of his own self-righteousness and will never, ever, admit to being wrong about anything. He will keep rolling out the same bollocks over and over again, as if trying to hammer his opinionated views into anyone who reads them. He will rarely, if ever, actually back up his ideas or thought process with actual fact and will ridicule any fact given against his ideas. Basically, yes, he consistently acts like a 7 year old. I don't bother arguing with his ilk very often as it is like banging your head against a brick wall. And the fact there are few like him on here is the main reason why I deliberately restrict myself to only 3 posts a day.

Anyway, cheers for the decent posts. Have a great weekend and enjoy the rest of the tournament. I will try to do the same.

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23 minutes ago, Smirking_Saint said:

Of course it does, the statement effectively suggested that, of the teams quoted, they are unlikely to reach a final without their best players, and of those teams their 'stars' are almost always foreign... not english

He does that. Then has the neck to accuse other people of misquoting him, not taking his sentences in their context or entirety or other bollocks. Fellas an absolute whopper.

Edited by Turkish
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