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Just now, TWar said:

We were so close. I'm proud of the lads, we played quality and its coming home. Bad luck on the pens but we did ourselves proud, love the lads, and we will get this. World Cup we are back on

Did we? First half maybe. This was our chance, forget the World Cup 

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1 minute ago, Whitey Grandad said:

It might have been that Southgate decided what the order should be.

Given his history with penalty shootouts, you really think he would deliberately put that pressure on the shoulders of the youngest player on the pitch?

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Southgate has got us to a level which no other manager has achieved in my (and lots of peoples) lifetime.

He's done an excellent job.

Italy were the better team across the entire tournament, and the better team tonight. 

Edited by CB Fry
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2 minutes ago, Toussaint said:

Did we? First half maybe. This was our chance, forget the World Cup 

Nah fuck that, their goal was lucky scrappy bollockz, and we almost took em, I'm hopeful mwte

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To be fair, if we'd won that we'd have robbed them. One shot on target and outplayed. We lost to the best team of the tournament, and in the night.

That said, why two kids were put up after the Rashford clusterfuck I have no idea. Sterling, Stones, Shaw, Phillips or Grealish should have stepped up to the plate. 

Meh. 

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14 minutes ago, danjosaint said:

But earlier thought u implied Southgate was doing great job!!!

We looked clueless  and toothless with some of the best youngsters around Europe,  this shows somethings not working, Foden should've been on instead of Saka, Henderson was dreadful and shouldn't of been there, Saka shouldn't have been on 5th pen, to take Walker off when facing corner in last minute,  we just don't create anything, we rely on keeping clean sheet then struggle like hell if we concede, we created the fewest chances in world Cup bar Morocco,  I'm sorry I'm sure Southgate is very good man manager but come on something isn't working 

Southgate is a good leader but a poor tactician. He should have put grealish on much earlier and mount has consistently proven to be nothing but a hard worker - not exactly worthy of a starting place in a euro final. Southgate was too cautious and then failed to react to the problems that happened in the first half until way later in the game.

Fundamentally he needs help from a better team - hopefully he will reflect, but I suspect he'll keep ploughing the same furrow.

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3 minutes ago, Toussaint said:

We had one shot on goal!

Yeah, after our early goal, we really didn't do that much. It was a disappointing performance given the players at our disposal and the importance of the occasion. I thought we looked knackered after 60 minutes but didn't make a sub until the 70th by which point Italy had already equalised and taken the initiative. You could tell Mancini had managed major finals before by keeping his team fresh throughout the game.

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11 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

Given his history with penalty shootouts, you really think he would deliberately put that pressure on the shoulders of the youngest player on the pitch?

Then what was the point of those two last minute substitutes? They can only have been thrown on in order to take penalties.

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2 minutes ago, StrangelyBrown said:

Southgate is a good leader but a poor tactician. He should have put grealish on much earlier and mount has consistently proven to be nothing but a hard worker - not exactly worthy of a starting place in a euro final. Southgate was too cautious and then failed to react to the problems that happened in the first half until way later in the game.

Fundamentally he needs help from a better team - hopefully he will reflect, but I suspect he'll keep ploughing the same furrow.

Or, heaven forbid, he might learn from his experiences and improve?

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30 minutes ago, Jimmy_D said:

Hell of a tournament for England.

Hopefully we can carry this into the World Cup.

Carry on having zero quality on the ball in midfield but getting piss easy draws?

Need to build a team with more ability and less reliance on pace. Although we're on on right track.

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I think I'd argue Southgate has hit par overall. I know it sounds ridiculous as an England fan, after a WC semi and a Euro final but I think we're just so used to under performing and failure. Colombia on pens, Sweden, Ukraine, Denmark and a substandard Germany who only made the knockouts after scraping a late draw with Hungary. Does this team get through Spain, France or Belgium on the other side of the draw? I'm not too sure.

 

Anyway, fair play to the team, they gave their all tonight. Italy have looked a class above from day one.

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1 minute ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Then what was the point of those two last minute substitutes? They can only have been thrown on in order to take penalties.

Yes of course. And it backfired on him.

What's that got to do with Saka taking the 5th penalty though?

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12 minutes ago, Baird of the land said:

Got to assume Southgate expected sterling to volunteer, otherwise surely he would have been one of those taken off

I would assume and hope that the days of volunteers is well over. And that the whole squad had practiced and was prepared, with the order more or less set ahead of time (with maybe minimal variation depending on how things had gone in the game). Look at the Utd vs Villarreal final, 21 players putting away perfect penalties. If we'd lost that way, or for example 6 to 7 with a brilliant save, fair enough. Missing 3 out of 5 is unforgivable. I feel for Pickford who did his best.

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Keane just made the obvious point. Why would Sterling or Grealish stand there and leave Saka to walk up and take that. I'd add Shaw and the other senior players to that. 

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Just now, egg said:

Keane just made the obvious point. Why would Sterling or Grealish stand there and leave Saka to walk up and take that. I'd add Shaw and the other senior players to that. 

I think the order is set and given to the ref before they start. No changes after that.

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1 minute ago, egg said:

Keane just made the obvious point. Why would Sterling or Grealish stand there and leave Saka to walk up and take that. I'd add Shaw and the other senior players to that. 

Owen scored one against Argentina in '98. If he's been good in training and wants to take one then let him have it. Mentality trumps age.

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14 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

Southgate has got us to a level which no other manager has achieved in my (and lots of peoples) lifetime.

He's done an excellent job.

Italy were the better team across the entire tournament, and the better team tonight. 

Have to agree.  England players, Manager and staff were full of class throughout though.   Cruel way to fall short.

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3 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

Yes of course. And it backfired on him.

What's that got to do with Saka taking the 5th penalty though?

 

2 minutes ago, Dark Munster said:

I would assume and hope that the days of volunteers is well over. And that the whole squad had practiced and was prepared, with the order more or less set ahead of time (with maybe minimal variation depending on how things had gone in the game). Look at the Utd vs Villarreal final, 21 players putting away perfect penalties. If we'd lost that way, or for example 6 to 7 with a brilliant save, fair enough. Missing 3 out of 5 is unforgivable. I feel for Pickford who did his best.

 

1 minute ago, egg said:

Keane just made the obvious point. Why would Sterling or Grealish stand there and leave Saka to walk up and take that. I'd add Shaw and the other senior players to that. 

Southgate on the BBC just now said that the penalty takers were down to him. They had been practising them in training and he decided who should take them.

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19 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

Given his history with penalty shootouts, you really think he would deliberately put that pressure on the shoulders of the youngest player on the pitch?

Ok fair enough, he's just confirmed it was his call and takes full responsibility for it.

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Just now, Dark Munster said:

I think the order is set and given to the ref before they start. No changes after that.

Really? I find it surprising that it can't be changed. The kid Saka was always missing that. Poor. Kid. 

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We drew. Any team can win a pen shootout contrary to the geniuses on here who can tell the determining factor.

Good tournament but could have done better today. Hey fucking ho

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1 minute ago, Lighthouse said:

Owen scored one against Argentina in '98. If he's been good in training and wants to take one then let him have it. Mentality trumps age.

Of course, but that kid was always missing that. Absolutely shitting himself. How he is in training is irrelevant, on the night everyone could see he didn't want it. 

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5 minutes ago, benjii said:

Carry on having zero quality on the ball in midfield but getting piss easy draws?

Need to build a team with more ability and less reliance on pace. Although we're on on right track.

Tend to agree, never did we have a better chance to win the last WC after the draw we got,  and this Euros was almost set up for us with the group we got and the home advantage, but we blew both.   Personally I doubt I will ever see us in another final in my lifetime.  Not convinced that Southgate or some of the players are the real deal. 

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3 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

Owen scored one against Argentina in '98. If he's been good in training and wants to take one then let him have it. Mentality trumps age.

Didn't Michael Owen score of the most memorable goals in England history that night? It's not quite comparable to Sako's contribution tonight.

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6 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

Southgate has got us to a level which no other manager has achieved in my (and lots of peoples) lifetime.

He's done an excellent job.

Italy were the better team across the entire tournament, and the better team tonight. 

Agree Southgate has done well and Italy have been good, but not sure they were the better team tonight. Yes they won and so technically they are better than us, but I think where we failed was the second half of normal time. Italy were behind and so were going to up their game attacking wise. We retreated and became defensive and invited pressure which eventually came to pass. We should have brought on Grealish and attacked as they were struggling against our forward play.

But heyo, it's football and things don't always workout. If you had told me at the start of the Euro's that we would be narrowly (and it was very narrow) knocked out in the finals, I would have asked for some of what you were drinking of! Good effort lads - think we need to improve on our "shit housary" I think they call it. Italy won it through their game management and not footballing skills - nothing wrong with that, just that we are no good at it.

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1 minute ago, whelk said:

So many twats want a scapegoat. Fuck off you just have to deal with this shit.

My scapegoat is Cafe Guisseppe just down the road from me. I've just come back from posting a fresh turd through his letterbox. It's the least he deserves.

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1 minute ago, John Boy Saint said:

Sorry but Sako should not be hung out to dry for that - he hit the ball no effin about - Rashford is the one to be rinsed his was bloody appalling 

They tried the best you twat. Rinse away

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5 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

Not sure about that. 

It didn’t happen in my day but that was a long while ago and at a much lower level. I have just looked up the procedure 

 “Each team is responsible for selecting from the eligible players the order in which they will take the kicks. The referee is not informed of the order.”

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1 minute ago, John Boy Saint said:

Sorry but Sako should not be hung out to dry for that - he hit the ball no effin about - Rashford is the one to be rinsed his was bloody appalling 

thought it was harsh on both of them to make them take a pen, made to sit on their arse for three hours then get sent on to to a job half the team havn’t got the bollocks to do. Southgate fucked it again IMO.

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1 minute ago, CB Fry said:

My scapegoat is Cafe Guisseppe just down the road from me. I've just come back from posting a fresh turd through his letterbox. It's the least he deserves.

I pity the poor fuckers in the pub singing anti pizza songs. 

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12 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

Southgate has got us to a level which no other manager has achieved in my (and lots of peoples) lifetime.

He's done an excellent job.

Italy were the better team across the entire tournament, and the better team tonight. 

Summarises it overall. England superb first 20 and then dropped deep too early and were hanging on a bit at times. 

Grealish should have been on much earlier for either Sterling or Mount, drew fouls and as well as getting us back in the front foot would have broken up Italian momentum. Rashford didn’t learn from the Kane and Maguire pens- decide where it’s going and commit fully. If Donnarumma pulls off a worldie so be it. Hesitation but treat it like you are taking it as you would normally for Man U. Hard though when only on the pitch 3 minutes as an emergency RB.

Chiesa - what a player. Rice superb, Phillips very good as well. Sterling an off night after a great tournament. 

After the SFC shit show of the last 5 years I’d forgotten what work rate, team spirit, organisation, resilience and caring were in a football context so well done England for that. 

The referees are the big learning - need a top to bottom out clear out of the current PGMOL group over the next 2 years and VAR only used for the clear and obvious error. Ref tonight better than I’ve seen in the PL for 10-15 years and been a high quality bar Michael Oliver’s shitshow.

English footballers 9/10

English referees 0/10 
 

 

 

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Just now, Whitey Grandad said:

It didn’t happen in my day but that was a long while ago and at a much lower level. I have just looked up the procedure 

 “Each team is responsible for selecting from the eligible players the order in which they will take the kicks. The referee is not informed of the order.”

Interesting. If the referee isn't informed that may mean that Southgate could've changed his mind and told someone like Shaw to step up for the 5th. But certainly it would be up to him, not Shaw or any of the other players.

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4 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

Didn't Michael Owen score of the most memorable goals in England history that night? It's not quite comparable to Sako's contribution tonight.

I guess that may have given him a bit of extra confidence but he was still an 18 year old, taking a penalty in a shoot out against Argentina. I can only assume Saka said he wanted to take one and I applaud Southgate for having faith in him. 

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2 minutes ago, saint1977 said:

The referees are the big learning - need a top to bottom out clear out of the current PGMOL group over the next 2 years and VAR only used for the clear and obvious error. Ref tonight better than I’ve seen in the PL for 10-15 years and been a high quality bar Michael Oliver’s shitshow.

English footballers 9/10

English referees 0/10 
 

 

 

No mention of VAR tonight. How refreshing.

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