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Italy camped around our box from about 30 minutes on, and we essentially relied on hoping Kane would win a header against the Italian CB pair as a tactic for the rest of the match. The overload in central midfield was ABSOLUTELY SH*TTING OBVIOUS and Southgate didn't attempt to do anything about it. Maddening.

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We took it right to the death, but we faced the best team we've faced so far and were pretty much outclassed for the majority of that sadly.

Started well and got on top, but once Italy got to grips with their midfield we just couldn't get near them and that's when the inferior technical quality within our midfield comes to the fore. But they make up for it with drive and aggression, but we do sorely lack technique in there which will always be shown up against the better sides.

We defended well generally, penalties felt inventible after the first 90. 

I can only assume Saka said he wanted to take it, but it was a very daft idea. He's a kid with the most important penalty in a generation, too much. He should have been pulled and someone with some experience should have taken it.

Let's see what 2022 brings, lots of good young players in this squad - but there is a feeling that this was probably our best chance of a generation.

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Just now, verlaine1979 said:

Italy camped around our box from about 30 minutes on, and we essentially relied on hoping Kane would win a header against the Italian CB pair as a tactic for the rest of the match. The overload in central midfield was ABSOLUTELY SH*TTING OBVIOUS and Southgate didn't attempt to do anything about it. Maddening.

Agree. Our coaches should have more about them and be capable of making tactical changes instead of waiting for the inevitable.

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1 minute ago, verlaine1979 said:

Italy camped around our box from about 30 minutes on, and we essentially relied on hoping Kane would win a header against the Italian CB pair as a tactic for the rest of the match. The overload in central midfield was ABSOLUTELY SH*TTING OBVIOUS and Southgate didn't attempt to do anything about it. Maddening.

Their keeper didn’t have a save to make (apart from the penalties).

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1 minute ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Their keeper didn’t have a save to make (apart from the penalties).

We took the lead, and after around 25 mins we stopped playing and pretty much retreated. The back 3 turned into a back 5 very quickly which is why we changed it in the 2nd half, but it didn't really change much as the midfield was just overrun with superior players, and once you're chasing a game for so long (as we were) once you concede it's pretty much done. That's why we just hoped for pens after that.

I'd have like to have seen us maybe go for it, but we'd have been picked off and thrashed imo.

Edited by S-Clarke
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Just now, HarvSFC said:

Rickie Lambert + Matt Le Tiss - hit the target from the spot with power and it does itself. 😭

Yeah, don't get these short run-ups or the pause before shooting - never looks convincing.

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1 minute ago, S-Clarke said:

We took the lead, and after around 25 mins we stopped playing and pretty much retreated. The back 3 turned into a back 5 very quickly which is why we changed it in the 2nd half, but it didn't really change much as the midfield was just overrun with superior players, and once you're chasing a game for so long (as we were) once you concede it's pretty much done. That's why we just hoped for pens after that.

I'd have like to have seen us maybe go for it, but we'd have been picked off and thrashed imo.

Yeah, we did well to keep them down to one goal.

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I wasn't surprised or angry when he didn't get picked for the squad, but that's probably the one game this tournament where JWP would've made a difference as a sub. Second half we were fighting fires in the midfield and hoping for set pieces, both of which he'd have been better suited to than anyone else in the squad.

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All pointless hindsight and speculation now, but can’t help but feel like we win that if Rashford turns his foot a fraction more and scores.

Massively more pressure on the Italian penalties and far less pressure on ours.

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2 minutes ago, Jimmy_D said:

All pointless hindsight and speculation now, but can’t help but feel like we win that if Rashford turns his foot a fraction more and scores.

Massively more pressure on the Italian penalties and far less pressure on ours.

Yeah good point. If we had scored our penalties we might have won.

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3 minutes ago, Jimmy_D said:

All pointless hindsight and speculation now, but can’t help but feel like we win that if Rashford turns his foot a fraction more and scores.

Massively more pressure on the Italian penalties and far less pressure on ours.

Never fancied him, he's looked shot all season. Would rather have brought someone like Calvert-Lewin on. 

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8 minutes ago, aintforever said:

Yeah good point. If we had scored our penalties we might have won.

The point I was making was just how finely balanced that final was.

We really were incredibly incredibly close.

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The penalty line up doesn’t make much sense after McGuire. Rashford has been a serial penalty misser for Utd. After that 2 kids. All three have barely had a chance to actually kick the ball in the game. 

Southgate himself was a scapegoat for 96 but he was young and like Sako and Sancho had the brass balls to go and take one while more experienced pros hid like kids not wanting to be called upon by the teacher.

Southgate has lived this and probably felt anger towards the likes of Ince, Anderton and McManaman. 

Why didn’t he shield those kids and send in the older pros? 

Edited by OttawaSaint
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Awful penalties. Apparently England practiced penalties every day in every training session. Imagine how bad they would have been without the practice.

Overall Italy were the better team from about the 40th minute onwards. 

Now we are going to get all the shiit about this being a warm up for the world cup next year and what a great young side we have that is so talented. Looks like we are in for another era of how good the team is and it's another golden generation........look what the last golden generation achieved!

If Kane is the best strike we have no wonder Spurs never win anything either.

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Still can't quite believe how appallingly that game was managed. They weren't even subtle issues - we were overrun and didn't try to do anything about it. And yet now we'll be stuck with Southgate for most of these players' careers, all because of two lucky knockout draws in consecutive tournaments.

An Italy team whose only superstars are both the wrong side of 35 - that was the chance.

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9 minutes ago, the colonel said:

Awful penalties. Apparently England practiced penalties every day in every training session. Imagine how bad they would have been without the practice.

Overall Italy were the better team from about the 40th minute onwards. 

Now we are going to get all the shiit about this being a warm up for the world cup next year and what a great young side we have that is so talented. Looks like we are in for another era of how good the team is and it's another golden generation........look what the last golden generation achieved!

If Kane is the best strike we have no wonder Spurs never win anything either.

There aren't many, if any, better number 9's in the world. Just look at his stats.

We just didn't paly him right, he was dropping too deep and not getting into the 6 yard box, so he gets very few chances to have a shot. 4 goals at this tournament though and just 1 goal away from being the top goal scorer for England in tournaments.

He's as good as we've had up top since ever, we just need to work out how to get the best out of him in games like today.

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Hoping Southgate resigns but obviously won't happen. 

Sadly England will never win anything under him. He's a nice guy but he's also a serial loser and tactically awful. 

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15 minutes ago, the colonel said:

Awful penalties. Apparently England practiced penalties every day in every training session. Imagine how bad they would have been without the practice.

Overall Italy were the better team from about the 40th minute onwards. 

Now we are going to get all the shiit about this being a warm up for the world cup next year and what a great young side we have that is so talented. Looks like we are in for another era of how good the team is and it's another golden generation........look what the last golden generation achieved!

If Kane is the best strike we have no wonder Spurs never win anything either.

It’s hard to know where to start with this pony. 
 

Italy were the better side, they’ve been the best side in the tournament. We’ve been the second best, no shame in that. 
 

We will be a threat at the next World Cup, because we’ve got good yo7ng players. Nobody has said it’s a “warm up”, that’s just a straw man planks like you line up. 
 

Kane is a class act, a really good player. 

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7 minutes ago, Saint86 said:

Hoping Southgate resigns but obviously won't happen. 

Sadly England will never win anything under him. He's a nice guy but he's also a serial loser and tactically awful. 

Fuck me, they’re coming out of the woodwork tonight. 
 

You posted before the tournament started  that you were supporting Scotland, now you’re moaning about England losing in the final. 
 

Plank 

Edited by Lord Duckhunter
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5 hours ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Their keeper didn’t have a save to make (apart from the penalties).

Pickford wasn't really troubled either. For all the ball Italy had there wasn't too much threat.

Bollox to another penalty loss but the negative tactics bit us in the arse. 2 mins, 1 goal up and the Italians rattled and we sit back in our half. When Italy scored they showed us what we needed to do and put pressure on us straight from the restart. From that moment on we were done. How Mount and Stirling stayed on the pitch I don't know, shocking games by them. Both went missing for the pens letting Saka step up. Need experience in these situations and Kane/Maguire showed how it was done.

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7 hours ago, trousers said:

Screenshot_20210712-000624-279.png

 

The laws of the game need changing when Chiellini can do that and still stay on the pitch.

And if Jorginho makes a tackle that in the PL then you can guarantee VAR would intervene and change his card to red.

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2 hours ago, skintsaint said:

Pickford wasn't really troubled either. For all the ball Italy had there wasn't too much threat.

Bollox to another penalty loss but the negative tactics bit us in the arse. 2 mins, 1 goal up and the Italians rattled and we sit back in our half. When Italy scored they showed us what we needed to do and put pressure on us straight from the restart. From that moment on we were done. How Mount and Stirling stayed on the pitch I don't know, shocking games by them. Both went missing for the pens letting Saka step up. Need experience in these situations and Kane/Maguire showed how it was done.

Mount wasn't on the pitch at the end. Was subbed off for Grealish. 

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7 hours ago, Whitey Grandad said:

No mention of VAR tonight. How refreshing.

You think VAR's failure to get involved and send off Jorginho for that assault on Grealish was 'refreshing' ?

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Overall England had a great tournament but for penalties. Practice hitting top left or top right and just hit it.

Rashford looked like he was going to run straight, then shifted over to the left, then started running, then stopped, then stuttered and ended up hitting a static penalty on to the post.

Make it simple - pick your spot and hit it. If the gk saves then fair dues to him but concentrate on your spot, not your run in.

 

 

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We got what we deserved. JWP wouldn't have missed a penalty 🤔!

Can't understand why Grealish and Sterling are so greedy when 20 yards out and think they will always score and yet can't with a 1-1 with the keeper from the spot?

Saka was awful when he came on and never looked in the game - that alone should have been enough that Gareth shouldn't have put him as No5! As for Rashford - hate it when players take penalties like that - serves him right - it's a Euro final - just hit it properly!

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8 hours ago, S-Clarke said:

We took it right to the death, but we faced the best team we've faced so far and were pretty much outclassed for the majority of that sadly.

Started well and got on top, but once Italy got to grips with their midfield we just couldn't get near them and that's when the inferior technical quality within our midfield comes to the fore. But they make up for it with drive and aggression, but we do sorely lack technique in there which will always be shown up against the better sides.

We defended well generally, penalties felt inventible after the first 90. 

I can only assume Saka said he wanted to take it, but it was a very daft idea. He's a kid with the most important penalty in a generation, too much. He should have been pulled and someone with some experience should have taken it.

Let's see what 2022 brings, lots of good young players in this squad - but there is a feeling that this was probably our best chance of a generation.

He maybe a kid but he is a top class footballer earning a huge amount of money

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Just now, John B said:

He maybe a kid but he is a top class footballer earning a huge amount of money

What a kid earns is irrelevant, as is how good he is. He's 19 years old and should never have been put in that position when there were senior players on the pitch. 

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Midfield is the big area of weakness. Phillips and Rice run around alot but they dont have the positive ball playing attributes we need. Mount is incredibly overrated. Hes southgate's blue eyed boy because of his off the ball work rate which typifies southgate's tactics. His set pieces are woeful and offers little creativity.

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12 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/57800431

I'm just gonna leave this here for anyone who is still labouring under the impression that there is no problem with racism in English football and that taking the knee is a pointless political gesture.

This isn't the thread for it, but don't confuse English football with English society. 

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3 minutes ago, John B said:

He maybe a kid but he is a top class footballer earning a huge amount of money

What a stupid post. I don't know Southgate's system for picking penalty takers. Does he tell them they are taking one or just ask for volunteers? Either way the likes of Grealish and Sterling should have been given 5th spot instead of a 19 year old lad. Money, what domestic team you play for just doesn't come into it. He will carry the can from people like you but 2 others missed their penalties and for 75 minutes we were the poorer team. 

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7 hours ago, verlaine1979 said:

Still can't quite believe how appallingly that game was managed. They weren't even subtle issues - we were overrun and didn't try to do anything about it. And yet now we'll be stuck with Southgate for most of these players' careers, all because of two lucky knockout draws in consecutive tournaments.

An Italy team whose only superstars are both the wrong side of 35 - that was the chance.

Out of interest, who would you have as England manager?

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7 hours ago, verlaine1979 said:

Still can't quite believe how appallingly that game was managed. They weren't even subtle issues - we were overrun and didn't try to do anything about it. And yet now we'll be stuck with Southgate for most of these players' careers, all because of two lucky knockout draws in consecutive tournaments.

An Italy team whose only superstars are both the wrong side of 35 - that was the chance.

Fucking spot on..............world cup everything feel into place,favoured teams being knocked out before we had a chance to meet them,and in this tournament ,

we had arguably the better half of the draw again ,with better teams playing each other. So for 2 games in a row now Southgate has subbed the sub.

Why not trust Bellingham to play instead of Donkey Henderson who was absolutely awful, and give the lad confidence(not that he needs it) to know hes there

because of the ability on his shoulders ,thats why hes been picked.Sancho brilliant season by all accounts should have played instead of Sako imo hardly figured .

Kane again was anonymous, and well captain ?. Mount and Sterling were not on the ball sadly enough tonight and did they play well enough to have stayed on

for as long as they did?.Im 60 nearly 61 and didnt quite appreciate the big win in 66, but those of us that can barely remember that,maybe we are the so called

"Golden generation "and not the players that are proclaimed by  the media. Rant over,another year goes by will it EVER happen?..................................................

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14 minutes ago, The Curse of St Mary's said:

Midfield is the big area of weakness. Phillips and Rice run around alot but they dont have the positive ball playing attributes we need. Mount is incredibly overrated. Hes southgate's blue eyed boy because of his off the ball work rate which typifies southgate's tactics. His set pieces are woeful and offers little creativity.

Brilliant observation all fluster and no end product,well sadly last night anyhow. Reece James would have been better than Trippier in the 2nd half..

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11 minutes ago, Sarnia Cherie said:

What a stupid post. I don't know Southgate's system for picking penalty takers. Does he tell them they are taking one or just ask for volunteers? Either way the likes of Grealish and Sterling should have been given 5th spot instead of a 19 year old lad. Money, what domestic team you play for just doesn't come into it. He will carry the can from people like you but 2 others missed their penalties and for 75 minutes we were the poorer team. 

You may well think my post is stupid but the three who missed the penalties are top class performers they may well be young but they showed in training that they had the ability to score penalties

But on the day they did not due to a combination of circumstances including the fact that the goalkeeper was imposing and has a good record of saving penalties and the fact that the team who takes the penalties usually wins

 

If Grealish or Sterling had shown that they were more likely to score in training they would have taken them last night

 

Southgate chose the ones he wanted to take them not on a whim but on evidence 

 

It is not as though the experienced Italian players scored all five they had two misses 

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1 minute ago, John B said:

You may well think my post is stupid but the three who missed the penalties are top class performers they may well be young but they showed in training that they had the ability to score penalties

But on the day they did not due to a combination of circumstances including the fact that the goalkeeper was imposing and has a good record of saving penalties and the fact that the team who takes the penalties usually wins

 

If Grealish or Sterling had shown that they were more likely to score in training they would have taken them last night

 

Southgate chose the ones he wanted to take them not on a whim but on evidence 

 

It is not as though the experienced Italian players scored all five they had two misses 

You completely overlook nerves and occasion for which there was no evidence until it mattered. In his short time on the pitch, Saka looked as though the occasion got to him. By the time it was his turn, it was all on him. That was the evidence that mattered, not what he did in training on Tuesday. Sarnia Cherie is correct, it was stupid to mention ability or wages, they're completely irrelevant. 

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33 minutes ago, The Curse of St Mary's said:

Midfield is the big area of weakness. Phillips and Rice run around alot but they dont have the positive ball playing attributes we need. Mount is incredibly overrated. Hes southgate's blue eyed boy because of his off the ball work rate which typifies southgate's tactics. His set pieces are woeful and offers little creativity.

Good post. I was convinced that he'd find a place for Henderson from the start. Midfield is crucial and they dominated there. Mount was going awol and was often our furthest forward player, but that may have been the plan or he may have taken it on himself as Kane didn't make many runs. That said, who'd have picked out any runs, most of Phillips and Rice passes picked out our defenders. 

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