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James Ward-Prowse


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1 hour ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

This is rubbish. I don’t dislike him, I just don’t rate him particularly highly as a footballer . Why we have to keep getting this playground “you don’t like him” pony is beyond me. 

It’s nothing to do with him ducking out of the way of a shot, I didn’t rate him before that. It was just an example of where your biblical obsession with statistics doesn’t show the true picture. Last time I looked there wasn’t a statistic of which midfielders duck. Probably because it shouldn’t happen. 

As for this manly footballer pony, I don’t expect you to trawl through my posts as that’ll bore you to death, but you’ll find fulsome praise for players like Tadic and Le Tiss, Lallana. Hardly tough tackling “manly” figures. 

It's because calling someone a "fairy" and saying they "mince around" is playground rubbish, and is far closer to a personal attack than a football opinion.

Also there could easily be a ducking out the way statistic, it's not that it doesn't exist because it can't it's that it doesn't exist because it doesn't matter. A player not taking a shot to the face is not a valuable way to judge a players quality, that's why no one compiles it.

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1 minute ago, TWar said:

It's because calling someone a "fairy" and saying they "mince around" is playground rubbish, and is far closer to a personal attack than a football opinion.

Also there could easily be a ducking out the way statistic, it's not that it doesn't exist because it can't it's that it doesn't exist because it doesn't matter. A player not taking a shot to the face is not a valuable way to judge a players quality, that's why no one compiles it.

But what you're not sharing is stats on the areas of the pitch where he plays the ball, where he finds space, the time it takes him to release the ball, how much he breaks between the lines, etc. They're areas for me where JWP is behind the lads in the England team, and the best in class. He's good, but not brilliant, and that's why some people are saying that we'll be OK without him and could arguably improve if we sell him high and spend well. 

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7 minutes ago, TWar said:

It's because calling someone a "fairy" and saying they "mince around" is playground rubbish, and is far closer to a personal attack than a football opinion.

Also there could easily be a ducking out the way statistic, it's not that it doesn't exist because it can't it's that it doesn't exist because it doesn't matter. A player not taking a shot to the face is not a valuable way to judge a players quality, that's why no one compiles it.

 How about Duckie's references to JWP being a "son in law" ? God knows why this is an insult but in Duckie's weird world it is definitely disparaging. 

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1 minute ago, egg said:

But what you're not sharing is stats on the areas of the pitch where he plays the ball, where he finds space, the time it takes him to release the ball, how much he breaks between the lines, etc. They're areas for me where JWP is behind the lads in the England team, and the best in class. He's good, but not brilliant, and that's why some people are saying that we'll be OK without him and could arguably improve if we sell him high and spend well. 

I mean, I could get those stats, but that's fine. He does actually do more progressive passes than Phillips and Rice by a fair margin and all our attacking mids and I could find those stats which is akin to "breaking the lines". He receives the ball a lot too, statistically, which is akin to finding space. His high key passes indicates he plays the ball in good areas. His time to release the ball isn't measured, to my knowledge, but it doesn't seem to be hindering him too much considering how many key passes and chances he racks up.

I don't think the England thing is much of a mark against him. Grealish was left out the team for ages despite being clearly way better than some others being called up at the time, Southgate makes some very poor decisions sometimes.

Either way, your arguments are all valid ones, and I'm not arguing against you holding them. Calling him a "mincing fairy" who isn't tough enough to be our midfielder is patently ridiculous, as is pointing out he has played in games we lost therefore he must be bad. 

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7 hours ago, egg said:

Whoa!! I challenge opinions, that's just a personal rant pal. I'm not sure how you get from me saying that JWP is replaceable, to me being "Mr I hate Saints". Bless. 

Don't worry too much about Gingeletiss.   For years he accused me of "hating" JWP, when my consistent argument was that up to a point after Ralph arrived, JWP really had been an underwhelming player who had been lucky to be handed so many opportunities.  In the last season or two he has lifted his outfield game; sustained his work rate; got stuck in a bit more, and tackled and harassed when once he seemed to mark space.   His dead ball game is outstanding - the rest of his game still strikes me as middle-of-the road Prem level.    The stats quoted by many still really just reflect his superior dead ball skills, not progressive passing or attacking midfield qualities.   

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11 minutes ago, TWar said:

I mean, I could get those stats, but that's fine. He does actually do more progressive passes than Phillips and Rice by a fair margin and all our attacking mids and I could find those stats which is akin to "breaking the lines". He receives the ball a lot too, statistically, which is akin to finding space. His high key passes indicates he plays the ball in good areas. His time to release the ball isn't measured, to my knowledge, but it doesn't seem to be hindering him too much considering how many key passes and chances he racks up.

I don't think the England thing is much of a mark against him. Grealish was left out the team for ages despite being clearly way better than some others being called up at the time, Southgate makes some very poor decisions sometimes.

Either way, your arguments are all valid ones, and I'm not arguing against you holding them. Calling him a "mincing fairy" who isn't tough enough to be our midfielder is patently ridiculous, as is pointing out he has played in games we lost therefore he must be bad

I get that, and we'll still agree to differ about him. My gut feeling is that he may leave this summer just because we need the money. The highlighted part doesn't relate to my opinion. 

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1 minute ago, egg said:

I get that, and we'll still agree to differ about him. My gut feeling is that he may leave this summer just because we need the money. The highlighted part doesn't relate to my opinion. 

Yeah it more relates to the thing you were replying to in the post. But yes, lets agree to disagree. I think we will sell Vestegaard and maybe Ings but I very much doubt he goes. His long contract means he's our only "star player" (worth over £20m) we can keep so I doubt we cash in or we might be in a right old mess if the other stars don't renew.

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3 hours ago, FarehamSaintJames said:

JWP won’t leave, think some people are just hugely overthinking this.

JWP won't leave for the likes of Villa or Everton, the Villa links are just paper talk, Noel Whelan saying its happening is not a credible link. There is no way on earth that JWP would go there, unless he is stupid (and I don't think he is). But, to say that JWP won't leave is ridiculous. He would leave if one of the top 4 came calling I would think - City, Utd, Chelsea, Liverpool. Don't think even Arsenal or Spuds would tempt him away. Thing is I don't see any of the Top 4 coming in for him, except possibly Liverpool (yes Nofuckall Whelan has been touting Liverpool as well as Villa). As far as I can see there has not been any genuine, firm interest in JWP so far this summer and here we are on page 7 of this thread. I know there is not much to discuss at the moment.

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35 minutes ago, VectisSaint said:

JWP won't leave for the likes of Villa or Everton, the Villa links are just paper talk, Noel Whelan saying its happening is not a credible link. There is no way on earth that JWP would go there, unless he is stupid (and I don't think he is). But, to say that JWP won't leave is ridiculous. He would leave if one of the top 4 came calling I would think - City, Utd, Chelsea, Liverpool. Don't think even Arsenal or Spuds would tempt him away. Thing is I don't see any of the Top 4 coming in for him, except possibly Liverpool (yes Nofuckall Whelan has been touting Liverpool as well as Villa). As far as I can see there has not been any genuine, firm interest in JWP so far this summer and here we are on page 7 of this thread. I know there is not much to discuss at the moment.

Why would he be stupid to go there? Saints aren’t going anywhere, we’re skint and realistically the best we can hope for is to be in the battle for 13th again next season. Villa are spending, improving and much better placed for a crack at European football next season than we are, plus they’ll probably pay him more. Right now Villa are a much better option than Saints.

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Massive signing on fee and a hike in wages, why wouldn't he want to leave ? A sense of loyalty or professional courtesy, I seriously doubt it. Nothing personal against him but football is just a job to many players, and a  relatively short-lived one at that. Grab as money as you can while you can, and tell the world you left because you wanted to win trophies or play CL football. Whether Villa are the right vehicle for that I doubt it, but I wish him the best of luck whatever the outcome.

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3 minutes ago, East Kent Saint said:

I expect Jack has had a word with him , “I’ll get the free kicks , you can bang them in , then we’ll go for a Balti”

Hopefully JWP will do the driving.

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Posted (edited)
20 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Why would he be stupid to go there? Saints aren’t going anywhere, we’re skint and realistically the best we can hope for is to be in the battle for 13th again next season. Villa are spending, improving and much better placed for a crack at European football next season than we are, plus they’ll probably pay him more. Right now Villa are a much better option than Saints.

He has already played for Saints as a 'best of the rest' team finishing 8th, 7th, 6th and 8th in four seasons in a row with Saints. A slightly upwards move to an outside chance of that again isn't a huge leap for him that will turn his head. Plus... let's not write Saints off this season just yet... it is still only 3rd July!

Edited by Matthew Le God
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5 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

He has already played for Saints as a 'best of the rest' team finishing 8th, 7th, 6th and 8th in four seasons in a row with Saints. A slightly upwards move to an outside chance of that again isn't a huge leap for him that will turn his head. Plus... let's not write Saints off this season just yet... it is still only 3rd July!

It's totally irrelevant what we did a few years ago. In the here and now Saints are going nowhere other than mid table at best. Villa are a bigger club than us, have genuine ambitions of challenging for Europe and he would get a decent pay rise too boot. It's very naive for people to think he would have no interest.

I like JWP and hope he stays, he's an important player for us. However if we received a bid north of £50M I think we would have to seriously consider it as we could potentially do some serious rebuilding with that. Problem is I have little faith in the club to spend the money wisely.

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Not sure about this "Villa have ambitions to challenge europe" thing. Could just be they are spending the Grealish money in advance. He is rumoured to have a £100m relearse clause so maybe they know he is off and want to get some people in before people get wind they are minted. Without Grealish they are worse side than us by a fair margin so I'm not sure they are the panacea they appear to be careerwise. 

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Just now, LuckyNumber7 said:

Villa are a bigger club than us

How does than manifest in reality?

Steve Coogan Shrug GIF

Sure they can outspend us currently, doesn't mean they'll finish above us. We've been above them for the majority of the last decade!

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7 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

How does than manifest in reality?

Steve Coogan Shrug GIF

Sure they can outspend us currently, doesn't mean they'll finish above us. We've been above them for the majority of the last decade!

Of course it's subjective to a degree but I think most football fans would agree Villa are a bigger club than Saints. Bigger stadium, fanbase, historically more successful and as you say currently more spending power.

Regardless of that it's fair to say if you take your Saints tinted specs off that they are a more attractive proposition than us atm sadly.

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1 minute ago, LuckyNumber7 said:

Of course it's subjective to a degree but I think most football fans would agree Villa are a bigger club than Saints. Bigger stadium, fanbase, historically more successful and as you say currently more spending power.

Regardless of that it's fair to say if you take your Saints tinted specs off that they are a more attractive proposition than us atm sadly.

You missed my point, even if they are 'bigger'.... so what? Sure they can outspend us currently, doesn't mean they'll finish above us. We've been above them for the majority of the last decade!

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27 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

He has already played for Saints as a 'best of the rest' team finishing 8th, 7th, 6th and 8th in four seasons in a row with Saints. A slightly upwards move to an outside chance of that again isn't a huge leap for him that will turn his head. Plus... let's not write Saints off this season just yet... it is still only 3rd July!

What gives you the confidence that this season will be better than last? Not writing season off but I haven’t seen or heard anything that changes from last year enough yet

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12 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

How does than manifest in reality?

Steve Coogan Shrug GIF

Sure they can outspend us currently, doesn't mean they'll finish above us. We've been above them for the majority of the last decade!

You're confusing club and team as the same thing. 

Villa are historically and in one or teo aspects currently a bigger club than us. 

The team finished higher than us last season so are currently better. Bigger is not really the correct term to refer to the team bit is for the club. 

Since they were relegated from the PL we have been the better team. 

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Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, MarkSFC said:

You're confusing club and team as the same thing. 

Villa are historically and in one or teo aspects currently a bigger club than us. 

The team finished higher than us last season so are currently better. Bigger is not really the correct term to refer to the team bit is for the club. 

Since they were relegated from the PL we have been the better team. 

I'm not confusing it at all. How does them winning the European cup for example 39 years ago in 1982 have any bearing on football in the 2021/22 season?

Edited by Matthew Le God
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15 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

I'm not confusing it at all. How does them winning the European cup for example 39 years ago in 1982 have any bearing on football in the 2021/22 season?

You've answered you're own question. You need to accept that you are wrong sometimes and not go down dead ends.

Their trophies hauls make them a bigger club historically. No debate. Fact. And you apparently love fact. 

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, MarkSFC said:

You've answered you're own question. You need to accept that you are wrong sometimes and not go down dead ends.

Their trophies hauls make them a bigger club historically. No debate. Fact. And you apparently love fact. 

That doesn't answer the question at all! The question was...

 How does them winning the European cup for example 39 years ago in 1982 have any bearing on football in the 2021/22 season?

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

That doesn't answer the question at all! The question was...

 How does them winning the European cup for example 39 years ago in 1982 have any bearing on football in the 2021/22 season?

 You are again confusing or mixing up team with club. As I defined Club wise they are bigger. Team wise they are also better based on last season. For the 10 odd years before we had the better team. 

 

You need to read everything people write and not just the bits that suit your viewpoint. 

 

Edited by MarkSFC
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Of course they’re a bigger club than us, and have more history. 
I’m also pretty sure they’re a better side than us right now, have more ambition, and can pay way more money.

Not really sure why you’re trying to not understand that MLG

Whether that’s enough to make him leave, only time will tell. I’m sure Saints will make it very difficult for him to leave, and I’m not even sure they want him. 

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3 minutes ago, MarkSFC said:

 You are again confusing or mixing up team with club. As I defined Club wise they are bigger. Team wise they also are based on last season. For the 10 odd years before we had the better team. 

 

You need to read everything people write and not just the bits that suit your viewpoint. 

 

I haven't confused it. I asked you a question, you still haven't answered.

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1 minute ago, Saint Garrett said:

Of course they’re a bigger club than us, and have more history. 
I’m also pretty sure they’re a better side than us right now, have more ambition, and can pay way more money.

Not really sure why you’re trying to not understand that MLG

You appear to think I've said something I haven't said!

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Just now, Matthew Le God said:

I haven't confused it. I asked you a question, you still haven't answered.

You have asked a question for which there is not an answer because comparing an historical event with what might happen in a future time period is ridiculous. 

Ask a better question and you might be able to demand an answer. 

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, MarkSFC said:

You have asked a question for which there is not an answer because comparing an historical event with what might happen in a future time period is ridiculous. 

Ask a better question and you might be able to demand an answer. 

You said... 'Their trophies hauls make them a bigger club historically. No debate. Fact. And you apparently love fact.'

So I asked my question to make a point that 'bigger club' definitions based on historical events 39 years ago are meaningless in regards to what happens in the new 2021/22 season. So it is an entirely relevant questions, used to highlight the flaw in your statement.

Edited by Matthew Le God
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All this talk about  "JWP would be stupid to go there" - he absolutely will want to go if he gets more wedge. Wouldn't any of us go to a new job if offered a significant payrise? Wouldn't it be stupid to say "He works at Tesco, there's no way he will be interested in going to Sainsburys"? If he is getting more wedge, he's going to go.

More money + being sold the story of the ambitions Villa have (whereas Saints appear to have little ambition) + potential chance to play with higher profile players and get a place in the england squad - all solid reasons to go to villa

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4 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

You said... 'Their trophies hauls make them a bigger club historically. No debate. Fact. And you apparently love fact.'

So I asked my question to make a point that 'bigger club' definitions based on historical events 39 years ago are meaningless in regards to what happens in the new 2021/22 season. So it is an entirely relevant questions, used to highlight the flaw in your statement.

Bore off mate

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4 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

You said... 'Their trophies hauls make them a bigger club historically. No debate. Fact. And you apparently love fact.'

So I asked my question to make a point that 'bigger club' definitions based on historical events 39 years ago are meaningless in regards to what happens in the new 2021/22 season. So it is an entirely relevant questions, used to highlight the flaw in your statement.

But that's the points of why your question is stupid/flawed. History has zero bearing on performance now or in the future. But that was not the prerequisite of why Villa are seen as the bigger club and it is also why I made the point that the historical performance and therefore reputation will define how big clubs are seen in general. The performance of the team last season or in the moment defines current playing status and will have an impact on the "bigness" (I realise nor a great word) of the club in future. 

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Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, MarkSFC said:

But that's the points of why your question is stupid/flawed. History has zero bearing on performance now or in the future. But that was not the prerequisite of why Villa are seen as the bigger club and it is also why I made the point that the historical performance and therefore reputation will define how big clubs are seen in general. The performance of the team last season or in the moment defines current playing status and will have an impact on the "bigness" (I realise nor a great word) of the club in future. 

You have seemingly missed the point of the question. It was a question to highlight the irrelevance of a 'bigness' debate to modern football for the 2021/22 season. 

Edited by Matthew Le God
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Posted (edited)

I’ll be giving it large down the boozer tonight. Telling my cronies how we’re as big as Liverpool, Utd, Chelsea. When they laugh at me I’ll just give it the old , “how do historical records have any bearing on the 2021/22 season”. That’ll shut them up, 

Edited by Lord Duckhunter
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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Tamesaint said:

 How about Duckie's references to JWP being a "son in law" ? God knows why this is an insult but in Duckie's weird world it is definitely disparaging. 

It was Roy Keane who called Arsenal a team of Son in laws. Blokes you’d like your daughter to marry, but wouldn’t want next to you in the trenches. Remind you of anyone? 

Edited by Lord Duckhunter
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9 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

I’ll be giving it large down the boozer tonight. Telling my cronies how we’re as big as Liverpool, Utd, Chelsea. When they laugh at me I’ll just give it the old , “how do historical records have any bearing on the 2021/22 season”. That’ll shut them up, 

Strange , strange woman. 

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27 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

I’ll be giving it large down the boozer tonight. Telling my cronies how we’re as big as Liverpool, Utd, Chelsea. When they laugh at me I’ll just give it the old , “how do historical records have any bearing on the 2021/22 season”. That’ll shut them up, 

I suspect they will do anything to get you to shut up

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Posted (edited)
42 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

It was Roy Keane who called Arsenal a team of Son in laws. Blokes you’d like your daughter to marry, but wouldn’t want next to you in the trenches. Remind you of anyone? 

Lucky for Arsenal that a football game isn't a WWI battle and the same skills aren't required! 😉

It is puzzling why you think Ward-Prowse isn't aggressive, have you not seen him play in the last 3 seasons? He is aggressive, hard tackling and winds up opponents.

Edited by Matthew Le God
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Posted (edited)

Agree with MLG. Recent success obviously trumps historic success. Clubs such as Villa, Everton and Leeds are clearly more successful and bigger clubs but I doubt players are dreaming of playing for them anymore. All of them regressed in a big way and two of them were in the second division very recently. Leicester City would beat all these clubs to signings despite being less successful and less 'big'.

Players will be more concerned with recent success, salary and their future prospects.

Remember all these players were born and grew up watching football probably from the late 90's onwards. Players that join us don't care we won a cup in '76. They will however care that we've been established in the Premier league for a decade, promote the development of youth, and are very open to letting them leave for better things. This is, I suspect, why we beat Leeds to Perraud.

That is not to say Villa aren't a more attractive club at the moment but to highlight that none of their players care what they won in the 80's.

Edited by Disco Stu
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Posted (edited)

I think players wanting to go to a bigger club is overstated somewhat. Players might want to play in bigger tournaments (going to a UCL/Europa side) or want to avoid dropping down (not joining likely relegation candidates) but between that it's all much of muchness, a mid table side is a mid table side. Beyond that its just about wages. Villa aren't in Europe and they probably won't be any time soon as they have one amazing player, a couple of decent players, and then a squad of mediocre players who would likely have gotten relegated a couple of years back if goal line tech hadn't had a one in 10,000 likelihood glitch. 

Bookies have us at 9/2 to go down and Villa at 11/2, it's much of muchness on that front as well. To be honest, they aren't a quality side side like Everton or Leicester. They have spent a bit because they still have a very cheap wage bill from the championship, but that also comes with a pretty poor squad. Grealish carries them and is far far too good for them, he goes in the summer and I think their relegation chances go a lot higher than ours regardless of whether they reinvest it.

Edited by TWar
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3 hours ago, Matthew Le God said:

You have seemingly missed the point of the question. It was a question to highlight the irrelevance of a 'bigness' debate to modern football for the 2021/22 season. 

But it’s not irrelevant, is it. Historical success increases fan base (at the time) which in turn increases Dan demand / stadium size and then commercial revenue. 
 

For example, if the Arabs pull out of city and in 20 years time there down the bottom of the table, this success would have increased club size and fan base. 
 

Villa are much bigger than us in just about every single capacity. 

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5 hours ago, SKD said:

But it’s not irrelevant, is it. Historical success increases fan base (at the time) which in turn increases Dan demand / stadium size and then commercial revenue. 
 

For example, if the Arabs pull out of city and in 20 years time there down the bottom of the table, this success would have increased club size and fan base. 
 

Villa are much bigger than us in just about every single capacity. 

Villa are "much bigger than us ." Bollox. Aren't  you the guy who a couple of months ago  reckoned that Pompey were better than us? Weirdo. 

Lets not forget that if VAR had worked properly, when they played Sheff Utd 12 months ago, Villa would have been relegated last season. 

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12 hours ago, Tamesaint said:

Villa are "much bigger than us ." Bollox. Aren't  you the guy who a couple of months ago  reckoned that Pompey were better than us? Weirdo. 

Lets not forget that if VAR had worked properly, when they played Sheff Utd 12 months ago, Villa would have been relegated last season. 

Not quite what was said, I was talking about ownership, but nice try. 
 

Villa in the championship would still be bigger than us. I wish it wasn’t the case, but it is. 

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Posted (edited)

I have it on pretty good authority that JWP is keen on going to Villa and his agent has been in contact with them regarding a move. I've never been ITK before but this has come from a source that is close to his family.

Whether they will stump up the cash for him is another matter I guess. 

Edited by Harry_SFC
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14 minutes ago, Harry_SFC said:

I have it on pretty good authority that JWP is keen on going to Villa and his agent has been in contact with them regarding a move. I've never been ITK before but this has come from a source that is close to his family.

Whether they will stump up the cash for him is another matter I guess. 

#ITK_Watch

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  • Jimmy_D changed the title to Interest in JWP - Signs new 5 year contract
  • Lighthouse changed the title to James Ward-Prowse
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