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James Ward-Prowse


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Grealish isn't a £100 million player either, values and what clubs might sell for are completely different.

Also JWP is irreplaceable IMO, he's the best set piece taker in probably Europe's top 5 league bar maybe a waning Messi, that alone makes him very valuable. Add in the guy is a leader, has amazing work rate, consistency and has just played every minute of a shortened season, barely picking up a knock, is another hugely valuable asset for a modern footballer.  You aren't just going to find those qualities to drop into our team, his set pieces alone create like 30-40% of the chances we create and his fitness/work rate means we'd likely need to have even more cover in centre-mid as no replacement is likely to be able to keep up his levels of consistency and fitness, plus we'd need a new captain in a team that already IMO lacks leadership. 

We'd also likely be selling one of our best players, when another one of our best players in Ings is already likely to leave and the club needs to cash in on him, whereas JWP has 4 years left on his contract so there is zero pressure to sell. 

It would be dumb to sell him full stop IMO but If he goes for less than £50 million when Grealish is likely to go for a 100 and White has just gone for £50 million then the club have been very stupid IMO. 

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1 hour ago, revolution saint said:

Well this really isn't in Roswell/Kennedy assassination/COVID vaccine/QANON level conspiracy theory is it?  All people are doing is speculating that JWP could be off and that missing the last two games could be linked. 

No one really knows - could be a coincidence or there might be legs in it but I think calling it a conspiracy theory is a bit OTT.  Let's be honest, when a player misses pre-season games after a bid has been made it does tend to lead to a departure at least some of the time.  The fact the club have dismissed the bid doesn't really make much difference - they've dismissed bids before only to sell.  Tell you what, give me a precedent where we've said a first team regular isn't for sale and haven't caved in and sold eventually.  Only one I can think of in recent years is Schneiderlin and even then it was only on the promise he could go the next year. 

So yeah, I wouldn't be convinced whatever the club said until the end of the transfer window SLAMS shut because there's been plenty more examples of us saying a player ISN'T for sale and then selling him than ones where they've stayed.

I don't think it is OTT to be honest. They have told you he's got a slight niggle and they have said at every opportunity the bid was rejected without consideration and they have no intention to sell. I just find it odd that some are so bruised by history that they don't believe them and can't accept that it's possible that a) he's injured and b) we don't intend to sell him.

By the way, it's perfectly possible that he's injured, we don't intend to sell him and we still end up selling him. The situation could change, he could kick up a fuss or Villa/someone else could make a ridiculous bid that would be daft to reject, but it doesn't mean that anything they have said so far isn't true. I personally don't see either of those things happening FWIW. 

I also find it odd that if we were on the verge of selling him and were leaving him out deliberately that people think that Saints, Villa and JWP would all be perfectly okay with him still hanging around the group. It makes no sense for any party for him to be there like that, might as well be at home. 

As for examples...we both know the nature of football is there isn't many examples of that not just for us but in football as a whole. That said though, you won't find many recent examples of players we want to keep leaving for clubs that aren't a clear step up. 

Edited by Fabrice29
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35 minutes ago, egg said:

Hard to disagree with much of that, but the suggestion that we'll get £50m for him is way off. He's a decent player, but he has very obvious limitations and is a million miles away from a £50m player. 

I agree, he's not a £50 million player per se. What would I pay for him if I were Villa boss? I probably wouldn't want to pay more than £35 million for him. That'd be my final offer. But Saints wouldn't let him go for anywhere near that for an integral captain, academy product, England international and with 4 years left on his contract. Saints will want north of £50 million and that's why Villa won't get him. If they DO pay £50 million or more, it would completely rebuild this team with a couple of quality additions, and Villa will have overpaid.

 

Short of one of the big 4 making a huge bid around that £50 million sum (possibly including Arsenal and Spurs, though we know what Levy is like) I really think he stays this summer.

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1 hour ago, Chez said:

its a good thing that teams come in for our players. When they don't, it means we have fuck all talent. Sell high, buy cheaper. A self sustaining club relies on deals like this. The question will be, can we bring in talent that is of an equal standard or maybe even better given time.

Think we’ve all seen the answer to that in recent times

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fag packet maths...and I know it has little bearing on reality, but...

Grealish £100m

 

Buendia £38m

Bailey £30m

JWP £35m????

Can't see that being enough

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Just now, Noodles34 said:

Think we’ve all seen the answer to that in recent times

No matter how good your recruitment is, you will still only get a percentage right. So the danger is always that you go backwards.

 

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1 minute ago, SuperSAINT said:

Just to add this to the valuation chat:

 

Amazing what happens to valuations when clubs know you’ve got £100m ready to burn. 

They did well to get Buendia and Bailey sorted before Grealish goes.

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1 hour ago, Pilchards said:

Done some digging as I know someone with close links to JWP.

Its all agent talk and James is not looking to leave for Villa.

He will never rule out a move for a champions league club if Saints accepted a bid but 100% he won’t ask for a move as he’s happy.

He certainly was looking at leaving during the Mark Hughes days as he never fitted in his plans which frustrated him.

One of the very few sensible posts on here. 

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3 hours ago, egg said:

Hard to disagree with much of that, but the suggestion that we'll get £50m for him is way off. He's a decent player, but he has very obvious limitations and is a million miles away from a £50m player. 

He’s worth more than 50M to Saints at the moment, with no club likely to value him as highly he’ll likely stay.

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1 hour ago, VectisSaint said:

One of the very few sensible posts on here. 

Sensible post because it’s what you want to hear. It’s equally sensible to say if the club got an acceptable bid and wee to offer him a 50% pay rise he’d probably go

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He isn't going unless we get a bid in the region of 45-50million and he decides he wants to go. 

Villa without grealish are worse than saints imo, certainly no better anyway. 

If you look at any of his interviews last season he was very happy at saints and was only thinking of his future with the club - he fits perfectly into the manager's plans here as well. 

Only way he goes this summer is for a top 5 club imo. I doubt very much that he's off to villa. 

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3 hours ago, Saint86 said:

he fits perfectly into the manager's plans here as well. 

An important point I think, from what I can see he seemingly has a very good relationship with Ralph, a lot of trust on both sides I think.  He's playing probably his best football since Ralph arrived and is integral to the team, that is not necessarily going to be the case anywhere else. 

He also looked pretty happy in that golfing commentary vid that came out on the saints youtube.

I cannot see him agitating for a move, I am not even sure he would agree to the move to Villa anyway and I can't see us accepting anything less than silly money for him.

BUT the Mail says this morning Villa will go back in with another bid. 

 

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44 minutes ago, tajjuk said:

 

BUT the Mail says this morning Villa will go back in with another bid. 

 

I'd be amazed if they didn't. You don't open with your `final' bid.  I guess it explains why we have apparently been enquiring/interested about Delaney.

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56 minutes ago, tajjuk said:

An important point I think, from what I can see he seemingly has a very good relationship with Ralph, a lot of trust on both sides I think.  He's playing probably his best football since Ralph arrived and is integral to the team, that is not necessarily going to be the case anywhere else. 

He also looked pretty happy in that golfing commentary vid that came out on the saints youtube.

I cannot see him agitating for a move, I am not even sure he would agree to the move to Villa anyway and I can't see us accepting anything less than silly money for him.

BUT the Mail says this morning Villa will go back in with another bid. 

 

Why no reference to the ultimate factor of anyone in a job: how much cash you get paid?

His agent has obviously told Villa its worth their time bidding, otherwise they wouldn't be wasting their time.

I'm sure he is happy at Saints but that doesn't mean he wouldn't move, we know that from the recent past.

 

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Good to read Pilchards' post saying he's not looking to leave. To my mind that means it would actually take a huge offer (£50m +) for it to happen.

If he were to go, I actually think we already have a replacement in Diallo. He was thrown in the deep end last season, played half a season covering Romeu's injury when he was a) not suited to that role and b) not really ready to be a starter in a PL side in poor form. But from what I've seen of him, I think he could fill the JWP role very well (apart from the dead ball stuff, of course). Him and Romeu as first choice in CM, with £50m in the bank to spend in other areas.. would that be so bad?

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I suspect this is less about JWP asking for a move, than the club realising top dollar for an asset.

Villa aren't a major step up for JWP at the moment. That might change if they continue progressing. He may want to hold out for a higher profile club.

Bottom line is Saints are very financially challenged and need the cash. Not desperate, but no way will they resist a £35 million+ bid.

No one likes it, but that's where we are.

Personally I would fight to keep JWP but resolve to sell Ings and Vestergaard. Both have question marks over fitness  and consistency respectively. Plus they have cover.

If Saints can raise £50 million from those two sales then the pressure will be off for a while.

Bunker down for long hard season, and just hope the club is sold to an owner who has the funds to take things forward.

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1 hour ago, Dusic said:

Why no reference to the ultimate factor of anyone in a job: how much cash you get paid?

His agent has obviously told Villa its worth their time bidding, otherwise they wouldn't be wasting their time.

I'm sure he is happy at Saints but that doesn't mean he wouldn't move, we know that from the recent past.

 

Villa don't pay much more for us anyway, Grealish is their top earner and IIRC he was on like £100k a week, which is likely to be around the amount we have offered Ings, and JWP is going to be one of our other highest earners most likely. Hardly like they are going to double his wages. 

Also IMO no money is not the ultimate factor in job choice. I could get more money doing my job elsewhere but would increase my workload, have less flexible working and less benefits. 

Le Tiss was offered more money and decided he was better off at Saints because the team was basically built around him. 

Footballers are also influenced by trophies, game time, champions league football, location, family reasons.  I would imagine a lot of those factors don't tick a lot of boxes for Villa in their favour, they are not a champions league club and likely won't be one for a long while, they haven't won anything for ages, is he going to be as integral to their game and have as good a relationship with the manager as he does here? the area is hardly of great appeal and he'd be moving away from his family as well. 

All for what? maybe £20k a week more? money isn't everything, even in modern football. 

Plus agents angling for more money, what a shock, doesn't mean the player wants it. 

 

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26 minutes ago, tajjuk said:

Villa don't pay much more for us anyway, Grealish is their top earner and IIRC he was on like £100k a week, which is likely to be around the amount we have offered Ings, and JWP is going to be one of our other highest earners most likely. Hardly like they are going to double his wages. 

Also IMO no money is not the ultimate factor in job choice. I could get more money doing my job elsewhere but would increase my workload, have less flexible working and less benefits. 

Le Tiss was offered more money and decided he was better off at Saints because the team was basically built around him. 

Footballers are also influenced by trophies, game time, champions league football, location, family reasons.  I would imagine a lot of those factors don't tick a lot of boxes for Villa in their favour, they are not a champions league club and likely won't be one for a long while, they haven't won anything for ages, is he going to be as integral to their game and have as good a relationship with the manager as he does here? the area is hardly of great appeal and he'd be moving away from his family as well. 

All for what? maybe £20k a week more? money isn't everything, even in modern football. 

Plus agents angling for more money, what a shock, doesn't mean the player wants it. 

 

So you’ve managed to quote one example of a player who didn’t chase money and dismissed his chances of winning anything at villa with their European cup win, 7 league titles, 7 fa cups, 5 league cups. Not won anything in ages, well yes but that was still 15 years more recently than we won anything. I’m convinced. 🤣
 

Let’s face it mate if he wants trophies he ain’t going to get them at saints. And “maybe an extra £20k a week” is 4 million sheets over a 4 year contract. Hardly The same as turning down 5 grand a year more so you can drop your kids off as school twice a week.

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£20k a week extra is over £5m across the duration of a 5yr contract. Thats a lot to pass off as not being a factor!

I highly doubt JWP's agent is working behind his back to try and get a move that his client has zero interest in.

We will see what happens, but whilst he isnt playing friendlies and Villa keep bidding it doesn't scream to me that JWP isn't interested.

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13 hours ago, Pilchards said:

Done some digging as I know someone with close links to JWP.

Its all agent talk and James is not looking to leave for Villa.

He will never rule out a move for a champions league club if Saints accepted a bid but 100% he won’t ask for a move as he’s happy.

He certainly was looking at leaving during the Mark Hughes days as he never fitted in his plans which frustrated him.

I heard the same. Family links to JWP’s old man, he said he expected JWP (his son) to be a saints player next season.

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2 minutes ago, em00jie said:

I heard the same. Family links to JWP’s old man, he said he expected JWP (his son) to be a saints player next season.

He must've changed his mind quite recently then...

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1 hour ago, Sheaf Saint said:

Good to read Pilchards' post saying he's not looking to leave. To my mind that means it would actually take a huge offer (£50m +) for it to happen.

If he were to go, I actually think we already have a replacement in Diallo. He was thrown in the deep end last season, played half a season covering Romeu's injury when he was a) not suited to that role and b) not really ready to be a starter in a PL side in poor form. But from what I've seen of him, I think he could fill the JWP role very well (apart from the dead ball stuff, of course). Him and Romeu as first choice in CM, with £50m in the bank to spend in other areas.. would that be so bad?

But the time you take agents fees and wages out of that £50m you could probably buy Carlton Palmer.

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The only problem I have with selling JWP, Ings or Vestergaard is that I have absolutely zero confidence we will be able to bring in anyone better or the same for the wages/fees we are prepared to pay. Our record of late (since Ralph took over) isnt great after all, KWP aside. 

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13 hours ago, Pilchards said:

He certainly was looking at leaving during the Mark Hughes days as he never fitted in his plans which frustrated him.

I expect some of the broken-record gang on here would still like to accept Watford's £10M offer from that time.

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51 minutes ago, Turkish said:

So you’ve managed to quote one example of a player who didn’t chase money and dismissed his chances of winning anything at villa with their European cup win, 7 league titles, 7 fa cups, 5 league cups. Not won anything in ages, well yes but that was still 15 years more recently than we won anything. I’m convinced. 🤣
 

Let’s face it mate if he wants trophies he ain’t going to get them at saints. 

In the last 4 years Ward-Prowse has been in two FA Cup Semi Final squads and a League Cup Final. So we've been close in recent history and we've spent all but one season of the last decade above Villa!

Edited by Matthew Le God
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4 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

In the last 4 years Ward-Prowse has been in two FA Cup Semi Final squads and a League Cup Final. So we've been close in recent history and we've spent all but one season of the last decade above Villa.

This. Villa have no more prospects than Saints of winning anything this season.

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Once in awhile it would be nice to resist approaches to our best players and especially from clubs I consider to be no better than our own. To be honest I’ve never thought JWP would be a huge miss for the team, but he has improved a lot and stamped his presence in the side, so now I’m less sure. £50m would see him go though.

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I'm also in the "villa without Grealish are worse than us" camp. Grealish didn't start 12 games last season, from them they got 12 points, third lowest in the league in that period. Villa without Grealish are a one point a game side, which is firmly "relegation battler" level. Dunno if Bailey and Buendia boost them that heavily tbh, Buendia certainly wasn't much of a difference maker last time he was in the prem with the same number of goal involvements as Nathan Redmond. Bailey seems alright but german fans are hardly unanimously positive about him, have heard people say things like "he has 5 good games a year".

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33 minutes ago, Harry_SFC said:

Yes, if you actually read the thread properly. 

I have read the thread. The best you've offered is a claim that it came from someone close to his family. That may convince you, but not me.

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1 hour ago, bangkoksaint said:

Money may not be as tight but this has similarities potentially to Andrew Surman’s transfer

We had to sell Surman. Apparently we don’t have to sell JWP. He also has a long contract and as many have said, if he doesn’t want to go he isn’t going. Also as many have said, he is a key part of the squad (no matter what Duckie’s opinion of him is). I don’t believe he is going anywhere no matter how many bids Villa make.

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Villa have a far  far better keeper than us. Centre halves that are decent, their full backs are on a par. Douglas Luiz actually stops people playing through their midfield and  John McGinn would walk into our side, really good player. Traoré is head and shoulders above fucking Djenepo, and you can’t tell me Redmond is better than Trezeguet or El Ghazi. Watkins isn’t at Ings level yet, but the play station statos would have wet their pants if we signed him from Brentford. Even their fringe players are men you’d want digging in for you.  

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5 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Villa have a far  far better keeper than us. Centre halves that are decent, their full backs are on a par. Douglas Luiz actually stops people playing through their midfield and  John McGinn would walk into our side, really good player. Traoré is head and shoulders above fucking Djenepo, and you can’t tell me Redmond is better than Trezeguet or El Ghazi. Watkins isn’t at Ings level yet, but the play station statos would have wet their pants if we signed him from Brentford. Even their fringe players are men you’d want digging in for you.  

Reading here fans have been slagging off the owner, team and manager for years. It’s been pretty unanimous that we have fallen behind Villa and Everton in recent years despite. Player for player a better team, better squad and an owner spending money. They’re moving forward whereas we have been treading water for years with our ambition just to stay on the league. When there was a mention of us being linked with Bailey it was immediately dismissed by most saying we can’t compete with Villa for those sort of players, now they’re linked with one of ours suddenly they’re no Better than us, why would he leave etc.. 

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1 hour ago, Shroppie said:

I have read the thread. The best you've offered is a claim that it came from someone close to his family. That may convince you, but not me.

Fair enough, you are free to believe what you want. All I am doing is relaying what I've heard from a very genuine source.

Although you seem to get your knickers in a twist as soon as someone posts something you don't want to hear. 

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On 30/07/2021 at 23:34, Dusic said:

As ever, it will be down to the player. If JWP wants to move to Villa then it will happen because they have the cash to significantly up their first bid (which never gets accepted).

The only reason they make a second bid is if they have been encouraged that JWP would welcome the move. 

It will come down to how strong a desire that is.

The timing of his injury is an unfortunate coincidence I'm sure...

 

Normally agree with most of your posts but not here (unless you mean encouraged by the agent??)

Perhaps encouraged by his agent who is looking for a Pay Day

(in 3 ways -

1) a move for JWP

2) a renegotiated contract for JWP

3) a renegotiated contract for Grealish at Villa as Grealish (and/or Dean Smith) wants JWP there (allegedly) to maximise Free Kicks 

Strange that they share the same agent but 🤷‍♂️

 

Did you lot not pay attention recently when villa were encouraged by Emile Smith-Rowe agent that he was interested, he got his client £80kpw when Arsenal were offering £40kpw initially (i think he was on £15kpw to start) 

Villa made 3 bids in the end

🤷‍♂️

 

On 31/07/2021 at 11:24, The Curse of St Mary's said:

Villa must have had encouragement to make a bid from somewhere whether it be player or agents

 

Agent deffo (see above)

 

18 hours ago, saintwbu said:

They bid a similar amount for Emile Smith-Rowe and Arsenal basically told them to fuck off, and they did. Hopefully same happens here.

 

Exactly

Arsenal had no intention of selling Villa were used by the agent as a 'Stalking Horse'

Would love him to stay tbh

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12 minutes ago, Harry_SFC said:

Fair enough, you are free to believe what you want. All I am doing is relaying what I've heard from a very genuine source.

Although you seem to get your knickers in a twist as soon as someone posts something you don't want to hear. 

Indeed. Fair enough. I don't get my knickers in a twist. I just get fed up with obvious trolls (not directed at you), those (probably not even Saints fans) who only want to criticise and others with no realistic understanding of the finances of a football club in the real world.

To be honest, I've virtually given up with this forum as a waste of time and only dropped in out of curiosity to see if it had got any better, but it hasn't. 

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2 minutes ago, Shroppie said:

Indeed. Fair enough. I don't get my knickers in a twist. I just get fed up with obvious trolls (not directed at you), those (probably not even Saints fans) who only want to criticise and others with no realistic understanding of the finances of a football club on the real world.

To be honest, I've virtually given up with this forum as a waste of time and only dropped in out of curiosity to see if it had got any better, but it hasn't. 

I don’t see any trolls on here. I see people with a different view but no trolling. For example one post saying JWP would stay was applauded as being the only sensible post on the thread. Yet anyone who says hed leave if we get a sensible offer is dismissed as not having a clue/being a troll. Despite the fact that the club is screwed financially and we generally do tend to sell our best players when we get an offer we deem acceptable. That’s not trolling it’s stating a few facts people don’t want to hear 

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For the amount Villa would have to pay for JWP (£40-50M), they could buy a better CM from elsewhere.

And the funniest thing is McGinn doesn't walk straight into their best side either. None of that takes away from how good I think JWP is. 

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8 minutes ago, Turkish said:

I don’t see any trolls on here. I see people with a different view but no trolling. For example one post saying JWP would stay was applauded as being the only sensible post on the thread. Yet anyone who says hed leave if we get a sensible offer is dismissed as not having a clue/being a troll. Despite the fact that the club is screwed financially and we generally do tend to sell our best players when we get an offer we deem acceptable. That’s not trolling it’s stating a few facts people don’t want to hear 

I agree with the posts saying we're struggling financially. And with those saying if JWP wants to leave and we get a big enough offer, we'll let him. I find the arguments over which clubs are "big" clubs tedious.

The trolling is mainly on match threads and after we've lost.

 

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interesting debate on a villa forum:

 

Funny how other fans see your players :lol:

 

Quote

 

This made me laugh from a villa forum

Poster 1: Two JWPs do not make up a Grealish. In fact, we can produce players like JWP through our youth system. He's no better than Jacob Ramsey apart from his set piece taking. If we are going to buy players in, we need to buy them in positions where we are lacking, or with characteristics we are lacking (ie buy a monster centre forward, or a huge bastard DM or a ridiculously quick winger, coz we don’t have any of those things).  

At the same time maybe, the analytics lads have decided the set piece taking is valuable enough to be worth carrying him. In which case you can’t carry any other player (ie no AEG, no trez, no young lad playing one of his first games). you're backing yourself into a corner

 

Poster 2: Have you ever seen JWP play?

 

Poster 3: So maybe like an expert set piece taker then?

 

Poster 1: yep. basically, ashley westwood with a good free kick. never impressed with him. he's not as good as, and definitely not better than, mcginn or luiz.

 

Poster 4: He's nothing like Westwood. JWP's defensive stats are brilliant. The idea that we'd carry him for his set piece ability is nonsense.

He outperforms McGinn and Luiz in all areas. Scores more and assists more too. Much better all-round midfielder than both of them.

Somebody who can actually run a game is more important to us than McGinn running into people and losing the ball.

JWP has games where he gets close to 100 passes, that's what great midfielders do. McGinn would need 3 full games to register 100 passes

McGinn isn't a proper midfielder, he causes a lot of the issues.

If you get someone like JWP in, you can control games and move the team forward. Playing with somebody like McGinn leads to ping pong football.

 

Poster 1: My point is that while JWP might well be a better player, but he doesn't outperform McGinn and Luiz in all areas and is lacking in 2 aspects in which Villa play under Smith. 

Personally, I'd be looking at better ball winning mid than JWP, who can add a lot of energy (who knows if that person is Sanson). McGinn offers a lot of energy, pressing and can carry the ball from the back or be played further forward.

He also Outperforms JWP in interceptions, or pressures and carrying the ball out from the back 

 

Poster 4: He doesn't though.

JWP has 207 successful pressures, success rate of 33%

McGinn has 168, 26% success

McGinn had 1 more interception.

JWP has more tackles and interceptions, no errors leading to shots. McGinn made 3 errors leading to shots.

Biggest difference is, JWP is making 70 passes a game, 81% completion - that' s a midfielder. McGinn is making 37, pass completion 77% - that's a goalkeeper. JWP has the 2nd most successful pressures in the league, 12th most tackles, 6th most passes and 1st for ball recoveries

If that's not a ball winning midfielder, what is?

 

Poster 1: Ward prowse is a tidy midfielder who makes a lot of sideways and backwards passes like ashley westwood but he wont win you games. that's fine at southampton where they don't expect to win many games. john mcginn is a different player entirely. hes got incredible close control and is impossible to win the ball off. he's a brave player - he demands the ball, he drives it forward, he gets us out of trouble so many times. he takes so much pressure off his team mates. he doesn't just pass it back to the defenders racking up stats. mcGinn is easily our second best player and any villa fan who thinks he's average is actually just thick.

 

Poster 2: Weird, pretty sure he won a game against us just last season, and scored 2 free kicks?

 

Poster 6: I would take JWP over McGinn in a heartbeat. 

 

:lol:

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  • Jimmy_D changed the title to Interest in JWP - Signs new 5 year contract
  • Lighthouse changed the title to James Ward-Prowse
  • Lighthouse unpinned this topic

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