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21 minutes ago, SuperSAINT said:

Ward-Prowse’s reward for staying at Saints

Southampton and England midfielder James Ward-Prowse has become the club’s highest-paid player of all time, writes Dan Sheldon.

The 26-year-old, who was subject to a £25 million bid from Aston Villa this summer, put an end to speculation over his future by agreeing a new five-year deal at St Mary’s.

His new contract has seen him reach £100,000 a week, which takes him above Theo Walcott and goalkeeper Fraser Forster as the top earner at the club.

It is also believed there is no release clause inserted into the new agreement, although there’s an understanding Southampton won’t stand in his way if one of the Premier League’s top sides make an acceptable offer.

The club’s captain has become an instrumental part of Ralph Hasenhuttl’s team and narrowly missed out on a place in Gareth Southgate’s Euro 2020 England squad.

This summer was the first time he has been seriously linked with a move away from Southampton, a team he joined aged eight, but Southampton’s board weren’t prepared to entertain any offers.

so assuming he was on about £65k a week, the extra year we gained cost Saints over £7m in extra wages spread across the four years he had left.

When fans ask, where has all the money gone...the answer is wages. £26m of them over the next five years. 

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9 minutes ago, Chez said:

so assuming he was on about £65k a week, the extra year we gained cost Saints over £7m in extra wages spread across the four years he had left.

When fans ask, where has all the money gone...the answer is wages. £26m of them over the next five years. 

Indeed.  Clearing out more of #TheUnsellables has given us some wiggle-room, though.

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43 minutes ago, SuperSAINT said:

Ward-Prowse’s reward for staying at Saints

Southampton and England midfielder James Ward-Prowse has become the club’s highest-paid player of all time, writes Dan Sheldon.

The 26-year-old, who was subject to a £25 million bid from Aston Villa this summer, put an end to speculation over his future by agreeing a new five-year deal at St Mary’s.

His new contract has seen him reach £100,000 a week, which takes him above Theo Walcott and goalkeeper Fraser Forster as the top earner at the club.

It is also believed there is no release clause inserted into the new agreement, although there’s an understanding Southampton won’t stand in his way if one of the Premier League’s top sides make an acceptable offer.

The club’s captain has become an instrumental part of Ralph Hasenhuttl’s team and narrowly missed out on a place in Gareth Southgate’s Euro 2020 England squad.

This summer was the first time he has been seriously linked with a move away from Southampton, a team he joined aged eight, but Southampton’s board weren’t prepared to entertain any offers.

So that’s where Danny’s potential wages if he had signed have gone.

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19 minutes ago, Chez said:

so assuming he was on about £65k a week, the extra year we gained cost Saints over £7m in extra wages spread across the four years he had left.

When fans ask, where has all the money gone...the answer is wages. £26m of them over the next five years. 

Somewhat misleading as we have trimmed our wage bill considerably with the loss of Gunn, Lemina, Bertrand, Ings, Vestergaard, and a bunch of youngsters. Our annual wage outgoing has almost certainly decreased this summer so it is not a good answer to "where has the transfer money gone"

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The most alarming thing in that article is the fact that he's now taken over Theo. Shouldn't he have been paid more than him already?

How much is f***ing Theo on??? The bloke isn't a footballer anymore.

Edited by S-Clarke
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2 hours ago, SuperSAINT said:

Ward-Prowse’s reward for staying at Saints

Southampton and England midfielder James Ward-Prowse has become the club’s highest-paid player of all time, writes Dan Sheldon.

The 26-year-old, who was subject to a £25 million bid from Aston Villa this summer, put an end to speculation over his future by agreeing a new five-year deal at St Mary’s.

His new contract has seen him reach £100,000 a week, which takes him above Theo Walcott and goalkeeper Fraser Forster as the top earner at the club.

It is also believed there is no release clause inserted into the new agreement, although there’s an understanding Southampton won’t stand in his way if one of the Premier League’s top sides make an acceptable offer.

The club’s captain has become an instrumental part of Ralph Hasenhuttl’s team and narrowly missed out on a place in Gareth Southgate’s Euro 2020 England squad.

This summer was the first time he has been seriously linked with a move away from Southampton, a team he joined aged eight, but Southampton’s board weren’t prepared to entertain any offers.

Interestingly, the part in the article about not standing in his way if we received an acceptable offer has now been edited to this: 

"Although it is believed there is no release clause inserted into the new agreement, the deal all but rules out Ward-Prowse leaving in the future unless an elite club makes Southampton an irresistible offer."

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Believe JWP will want to take a few premier league saints records in the next 2 seasons & the league record for most free kick goals

 

most appearances 59 more to overtake Jason Dodd

most wins 14 more to overtake Dodd

3rd highest scorer 13 to pass Ings & Pahars

———————————————————most free kicks in league 6? To overtake David Beckham

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“Why can’t we keep our best players???” Article about lad who has been with us his entire life getting a pay rise on 5 year contract…. “How can we pay so much???”

 

Before anyone asks yes I genuinely believe our captain deserves the money in this age of frankly stupid PL wages. My only hope is that there is a pay cut clause in the case of relegation or else we are a bit buggered should the worst happen. 

Edited by farawaysaint
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5 hours ago, TWar said:

Somewhat misleading as we have trimmed our wage bill considerably with the loss of Gunn, Lemina, Bertrand, Ings, Vestergaard, and a bunch of youngsters. Our annual wage outgoing has almost certainly decreased this summer so it is not a good answer to "where has the transfer money gone"

We made a huge loss on the previous financial year. I know it doesn't always paint a true picture, as player sales etc. can fall just outside the period, but the need for a £70m loan suggests we continue to spend more than we can afford, so a reduction in wages is perhaps a necessity?

We need to find about £6.3m to cover the £70m loan interest - assuming we intend to make some sort of repayment. 

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1 hour ago, farawaysaint said:

“Why can’t we keep our best players???” Article about lad who has been with us his entire life getting a pay rise on 5 year contract…. “How can we pay so much???”

 

Before anyone asks yes I genuinely believe our captain deserves the money in this age of frankly stupid PL wages. My only hope is that there is a pay cut clause in the case of relegation or else we are a bit buggered should the worst happen. 

Absolutely. Even a 50% cut would mean we are paying him £50k a week for four more years. In the Championship, one or two of those can all but bankrupt you assuming you can't sell the player. 

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Ridiculous contract and pay rise to give to a player who already had 4 years left on his previous deal. 

With the new approach referees are taking to letting more tackles go, and therefore fewer free kicks being given, I struggle to see him replicating his scoring from last season. Take away his free kicks and there is nothing special there and he certainly isn't worth 100k a week

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1 hour ago, Verbal Kint said:

Ridiculous contract and pay rise to give to a player who already had 4 years left on his previous deal. 

With the new approach referees are taking to letting more tackles go, and therefore fewer free kicks being given, I struggle to see him replicating his scoring from last season. Take away his free kicks and there is nothing special there and he certainly isn't worth 100k a week

So you think we should put him back to being paid less than Elyounoussi? Theo Walcot? Stephens? Long? Redmond? Djenepo, McCarthy? lol...... A guy who was the main reason for so many goals for us last season and contributed hugely defensively? 

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • Lighthouse changed the title to James Ward-Prowse
On 23/08/2021 at 15:11, Verbal Kint said:

Ridiculous contract and pay rise to give to a player who already had 4 years left on his previous deal. 

With the new approach referees are taking to letting more tackles go, and therefore fewer free kicks being given, I struggle to see him replicating his scoring from last season. Take away his free kicks and there is nothing special there and he certainly isn't worth 100k a week

thats enough saintsweeb for me today.

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On 23/08/2021 at 16:34, Mosin said:

So you think we should put him back to being paid less than Elyounoussi? Theo Walcot? Stephens? Long? Redmond? Djenepo, McCarthy? lol...... A guy who was the main reason for so many goals for us last season and contributed hugely defensively? 

How on earth can the board  justify the captain being paid less than these players WHY PAY WALCOTT SO MUCH WHEN HE wold probably without a club if we had not taken him on. It is a wonder he did not do a VanDyke

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7 hours ago, skintsaint said:

Have they actually seen him play? JWP loves a good sideways/backwards pass 😅

 

image.png.92df8615f0e22344054db5c112bb1d63.png 

He lead our team last season for both progressive passes and chance creation from (aside from the strikers) and was pretty highly ranked in the league too. I think confirmation bias may be at play a bit here, given every player will pass sidewards and backwards quite often but people look out for them from prowsey 

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7 hours ago, skintsaint said:

Have they actually seen him play? JWP loves a good sideways/backwards pass 😅

 

image.png.92df8615f0e22344054db5c112bb1d63.png 

For the position he plays, he is one of the most creative dms in the league... Name one dm who got more assists last season?....  Was 14th in the league last season in all positions.. As a DM,, let that settle and think of a reply... 

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9 minutes ago, TWar said:

He lead our team last season for both progressive passes and chance creation from (aside from the strikers) and was pretty highly ranked in the league too. I think confirmation bias may be at play a bit here, given every player will pass sidewards and backwards quite often but people look out for them from prowsey 

Fair enough I stand corrected on that. I never really associate him with being creative at all.

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10 hours ago, skintsaint said:

Have they actually seen him play? JWP loves a good sideways/backwards pass 😅

 

image.png.92df8615f0e22344054db5c112bb1d63.png 

Liverpool would be a great fit for him. They play 3 mids and plenty of them get chances, he could do really well with someone like Fabinho. I imagine they'd see him as a Milner replacement. Someone who people continually underrate but really helps the team. Few have better fitness or work rate, he can pass and tackle. Never going to be a stand out star player in open play but that doesn't mean he isn't a really decent player. Add in the set pieces and I'm surprised more haven't bid. 

But the new contract to me signifies a wage rise to stay this season as losing him and Ings together would be a disaster. It almost certainly includes an understanding of him leaving next summer. From his point of view, what more can he achieve here while we're broke? From ours, who else do we sell?

Yeah KWP, Livramento, maybe even Salisu could be worth a bit by then. But selling one player for a big fee and keeping most the team together seems more sensible. Given we'll need to sell again, £45-50m there won't be turned down will it. We could then buy a keeper, maybe 2 CMs and perhaps Broja. 

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40 minutes ago, adriansfc said:

Liverpool would be a great fit for him. They play 3 mids and plenty of them get chances, he could do really well with someone like Fabinho. I imagine they'd see him as a Milner replacement. Someone who people continually underrate but really helps the team. Few have better fitness or work rate, he can pass and tackle. Never going to be a stand out star player in open play but that doesn't mean he isn't a really decent player. Add in the set pieces and I'm surprised more haven't bid. 

But the new contract to me signifies a wage rise to stay this season as losing him and Ings together would be a disaster. It almost certainly includes an understanding of him leaving next summer. From his point of view, what more can he achieve here while we're broke? From ours, who else do we sell?

Yeah KWP, Livramento, maybe even Salisu could be worth a bit by then. But selling one player for a big fee and keeping most the team together seems more sensible. Given we'll need to sell again, £45-50m there won't be turned down will it. We could then buy a keeper, maybe 2 CMs and perhaps Broja. 

Agree with this. I wouldn't begrudge JWP a move to the likes of Liverpool next summer. I want him to forge a regular place in the England squad and, rightly or wrongly, the only way he'll realistically achieve that is by stepping up a level or two in the PL. And, yep, it's the best (only?) way of realising next season's wider transfer budget, given our 'self sufficiency' financial constraints.

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On 10/09/2021 at 19:04, TWar said:

He lead our team last season for both progressive passes and chance creation from (aside from the strikers) and was pretty highly ranked in the league too. I think confirmation bias may be at play a bit here, given every player will pass sidewards and backwards quite often but people look out for them from prowsey 

When you look average progressive passes per game I think he fell below Romeu and was nowhere near the top of the league though? Ditto chance creation?

I expected his chance creation stats to be much higher given his set piece ability.

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On 10/09/2021 at 19:07, Mosin said:

For the position he plays, he is one of the most creative dms in the league... Name one dm who got more assists last season?....  Was 14th in the league last season in all positions.. As a DM,, let that settle and think of a reply... 

Never a DM. He is a box to box all day long. Romeu is a DM

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2 hours ago, Verbal Kint said:

When you look average progressive passes per game I think he fell below Romeu and was nowhere near the top of the league though? Ditto chance creation?

I expected his chance creation stats to be much higher given his set piece ability.

I have his chances created last season as 60, which is best of all our players in our team and 11th best in the league. Also best of any central midfielder except KdB, Bruno, Gross and Mount (depending on CM definition).

image.thumb.png.4824825f6cab3c126a42f9e30d011e55.png

 

Different stat websites have different definitions of chances created though.

 

Progressive passes he is best in our team by a mile and 19th best in the league

 

image.thumb.png.15484668ad473b2353776fab66b27419.png

Again though, different websites/different metrics. 

These aren't normalised for minutes otherwise the top players have all played barely any minutes, you can filter by minimum minutes played but I haven't as it's a pain to do!

Edited by TWar
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1 hour ago, Maya's Dad said:

Never a DM. He is a box to box all day long. Romeu is a DM

No, watch us play, they both play dm / cm, jwp covers rb, and OR covers for the lb when they push up, they both watch the back line too alternating who pushes forward when play allows, but mostly they both sit in front of the back 4 and very rarely push up to the final 3rd, this allows the full backs to push high up providing the width we other wise wouldnt have playing 4222. Although i agree OR is the more defensive of them both and jwp leads the press, jwp doesnt push forward enough to warrent being called a box to box as he doesnt push to get to the box OR does this as jwp stays deeper. Here have a peak at this  https://www.coachesvoice.com/james-ward-prowse-southampton-ralph-hasenhuttl/ 

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11 hours ago, TWar said:

I have his chances created last season as 60, which is best of all our players in our team and 11th best in the league. Also best of any central midfielder except KdB, Bruno, Gross and Mount (depending on CM definition).

image.thumb.png.4824825f6cab3c126a42f9e30d011e55.png

 

Different stat websites have different definitions of chances created though.

 

Progressive passes he is best in our team by a mile and 19th best in the league

 

image.thumb.png.15484668ad473b2353776fab66b27419.png

Again though, different websites/different metrics. 

These aren't normalised for minutes otherwise the top players have all played barely any minutes, you can filter by minimum minutes played but I haven't as it's a pain to do!

For progressive passes, when you take out the anomalies (those who have played fewer than 10 games) JWP still doesn't even make the top 50 players in the league, and is behind Romeu. 

The chances created stats I can access show a similar story

 

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As Captain JWP is going to start every game he’s fit by default, even though with a fully fit side he wouldn’t make my starting line up as free kicks aside I don’t think he actually contributes that much.

I’d have been happy to take the £50 mill and make Stuart Armstrong team captain.

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22 hours ago, TWar said:

I have his chances created last season as 60, which is best of all our players in our team and 11th best in the league. Also best of any central midfielder except KdB, Bruno, Gross and Mount (depending on CM definition).

image.thumb.png.4824825f6cab3c126a42f9e30d011e55.png

 

Different stat websites have different definitions of chances created though.

 

Progressive passes he is best in our team by a mile and 19th best in the league

 

image.thumb.png.15484668ad473b2353776fab66b27419.png

Again though, different websites/different metrics. 

These aren't normalised for minutes otherwise the top players have all played barely any minutes, you can filter by minimum minutes played but I haven't as it's a pain to do!

Both Fernandes and Mount are attacking mids, Mount has played as one of the attacking front 3 IIRC for Chelsea quite a lot, but both will have 2 other centre mids behind them most of the time. 

JWP operates in a double pivot, which means on average he will be deeper than almost anyone in that chances created list. 

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20 hours ago, bpsaint said:

As Captain JWP is going to start every game he’s fit by default, even though with a fully fit side he wouldn’t make my starting line up as free kicks aside I don’t think he actually contributes that much.

I’d have been happy to take the £50 mill and make Stuart Armstrong team captain.

You can see that Diallo offers a lot more dynamism during open play, I find JWP's default setting to pass backwards and sideways very limiting to our play.

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21 minutes ago, Jeremy Corbyn said:

You can see that Diallo offers a lot more dynamism during open play, I find JWP's default setting to pass backwards and sideways very limiting to our play.

I think Ward-Prowse offers much more. I understand that Diallo is a defensive midfielder but for any midfield player to fail to score a single goal and to only have one assist (none in England) in his entire career is not what you want to see in a team that already offers few goalscoring options. With Ward-Prowse, you know you are going to get goals and assists every year.

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I didn't realise Diallo has played around 100 professional games at various levels and never, ever scored. Wow.

Still, more "dynamic" than boring old James Ward-Prowse (9, 5 and 7 goals from midfield in the last three seasons).

Edited by CB Fry
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On 12/09/2021 at 12:33, bpsaint said:

As Captain JWP is going to start every game he’s fit by default, even though with a fully fit side he wouldn’t make my starting line up as free kicks aside I don’t think he actually contributes that much.

I’d have been happy to take the £50 mill and make Stuart Armstrong team captain.

I think he contributes an enormous amount, it just isn't eye catching. He is the sort of players managers love, he does the grunty stuff. I find it incredible he can be joining in with an attack, then, as it often has, the attack breaks down and we are under a swift counter, who is there covering the defence? It's like there are two of him on the pitch.  

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7 hours ago, Jeremy Corbyn said:

You can see that Diallo offers a lot more dynamism during open play, I find JWP's default setting to pass backwards and sideways very limiting to our play.

I haven't seen anything in Diallo so far that makes me think he will be an influential premier league player. I hope to be proven wrong. 

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On 12/09/2021 at 12:33, bpsaint said:

As Captain JWP is going to start every game he’s fit by default, even though with a fully fit side he wouldn’t make my starting line up as free kicks aside I don’t think he actually contributes that much.

I’d have been happy to take the £50 mill and make Stuart Armstrong team captain.

I kind of agree with a lot of this, one thing I’m starting to think is maybe jwp doesn’t really suit us as a player.. yes he’s a exceptional free kick taker but that aside really for me he’s just a neat and tidy player with a decent work rate, it’s very very rare he completely bosses a game that has some huge impact in our results.

for example xavi was amazing for Spain and barca with his tidy passing but he had pace and creativity all round him so it worked a treat jwp can be neat and tidy but if the players he pass to do nothing with it how does it help us?

maybe having some brick shit house midfielders who can physically dominate the opposition would be more beneficial for us as a team ?

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51 minutes ago, pimpin4rizeal said:

I kind of agree with a lot of this, one thing I’m starting to think is maybe jwp doesn’t really suit us as a player.. yes he’s a exceptional free kick taker but that aside really for me he’s just a neat and tidy player with a decent work rate, it’s very very rare he completely bosses a game that has some huge impact in our results.

for example xavi was amazing for Spain and barca with his tidy passing but he had pace and creativity all round him so it worked a treat jwp can be neat and tidy but if the players he pass to do nothing with it how does it help us?

maybe having some brick shit house midfielders who can physically dominate the opposition would be more beneficial for us as a team ?

Did you ever actually see Xavi play? 'Neat and tidy' perhaps undervalues the contribution of one of the most incisive passers of the past twenty years or so.

As someone said above, JWP is important to us and very hard working, but you never see him running a game.

Xavi didn't run games because he had better players around him - he ran games because he read the play better than anyone else, and he could keep the ball as long as he wanted until a pass opened up.

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14 hours ago, verlaine1979 said:

Did you ever actually see Xavi play? 'Neat and tidy' perhaps undervalues the contribution of one of the most incisive passers of the past twenty years or so.

As someone said above, JWP is important to us and very hard working, but you never see him running a game.

Xavi didn't run games because he had better players around him - he ran games because he read the play better than anyone else, and he could keep the ball as long as he wanted until a pass opened up.

It wasnt just xavi controling the middle be fair... He did have iniesta next to him with busquest sat deep behind, two other world class players, its not like he wasnt in the greatest team the world has ever seen with the one of the best players ever seen in Messi with suarez and naymar uptop too like come on....  

He wouldnt control games in the epl all alone on a cold wet and windy saturday afternoon playing for stoke... 

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20 hours ago, verlaine1979 said:

Did you ever actually see Xavi play? 'Neat and tidy' perhaps undervalues the contribution of one of the most incisive passers of the past twenty years or so.

As someone said above, JWP is important to us and very hard working, but you never see him running a game.

Xavi didn't run games because he had better players around him - he ran games because he read the play better than anyone else, and he could keep the ball as long as he wanted until a pass opened up.

Yeah I mean obviously that was a extreme example and I’m not directly comparing jwp to xavi, but like mosin says above a good passer like xavi who can play it also neat and tidy works a lot better if his passes go to the likes of Messi ronaldinho iniesta etc who can carry the ball . 

Probably wouldn’t work so well if your passing to other players who also play the simple pass or to Redmond djenepo etc.

i just think maybe jwp doesn’t really help us that much barring setpieces compared to say if we had a doucoure in midfield 

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